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lunging: he keeps turning to face me...

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  • lunging: he keeps turning to face me...

    I think my tb got confused when I started to teach him about turn on the forehand on the ground. Now, when I ask him to go from halt to walk, he just spins and spins to look at me. I had it back to okay on Wednesday, then after three days off, we are back at square one. I did work it through to the right, but to the left--just spin and spin. Two questions:
    1. Anyone have another reason why he is doing it?
    2. I need a strategy!

    *We are getting very dizzy! THANKS!

  • #2
    I started working with a TB a few months ago and he did not know how to longe. He stopped and faced me whenever he was confused or mildly stressed (lots of horses in the ring, etc).

    One thing that helped him understand the concept of "keep moving" was for me to slowly twirl the longe whip as he moved. As he became more experienced and confident on the longe, I no longer need to twirl the whip and I can point it up/down/etc as needed.

    I was always taught to stand in the middle of the circle and plant my inside foot and pivot on the outside foot and never twirl the whip but for this particular horse, twirling the whip and walking a little with him helped immensely. And as soon as I lost focus for just a fraction of a second, he'd be facing me This horse is teaching me a lot about consistency.

    This is just my anecdotal info and I'd also recommend making sure he understands the basic stop/go cues and basics of longeing. How experienced is he on the longe? Are you teaching him or does he already know how?
    Sarah K. Andrew | Twitter | Instagram | Flickr | Calendar

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    • #3
      My mare did this when I free longed her in the round pen at one point. (It was a moment of weakness I regret to this day. The whole "join up" thing seduced me )

      She'd always been super good at longeing, and still is. Right now I'm trying to catch her before she turns, in that instant, and tell her good girl, then another "whoa" if she picks up her foot. If she's really fast at it, I tell her no.

      Make sure you're behind his hip, and use voice commands. Don't overdo the whip, or you'll lose the meaning of it.

      Comment


      • #4
        Use side reins or lunge with two long lines.
        ... _. ._ .._. .._

        Comment

        • Original Poster

          #5
          Originally posted by Minuet View Post
          She'd always been super good at longeing, and still is. Right now I'm trying to catch her before she turns, in that instant, and tell her good girl, then another "whoa" if she picks up her foot. If she's really fast at it, I tell her no.

          Make sure you're behind his hip, and use voice commands. Don't overdo the whip, or you'll lose the meaning of it.
          My boy has always been fine to lung too! It is a crazy regression! I am trying to catch him before, but when I go from halt to walk, it is IMPOSSIBLE!

          I may have desensitized him to the whip, as I can be a nag.

          Maybe I will try the sidereins. It is just so weird. He is usually pretty smart, so I have clearly confused him somehow.

          Comment


          • #6
            You may think this is a stupid question, but; why are you lunging ?
            ... _. ._ .._. .._

            Comment


            • #7
              Originally posted by 2boys View Post
              I think my tb got confused when I started to teach him about turn on the forehand on the ground. Now, when I ask him to go from halt to walk, he just spins and spins to look at me. I had it back to okay on Wednesday, then after three days off, we are back at square one. I did work it through to the right, but to the left--just spin and spin. Two questions:
              1. Anyone have another reason why he is doing it?
              2. I need a strategy!

              *We are getting very dizzy! THANKS!
              your not asking him in the correct manner obviously have to much line and not quick to move as in take quick step back towards his quarters so he moves forwards
              look here and go to bottom of helpful links there you find web pages and info on how to lunge correctly

              http://www.chronicleforums.com/Forum...d.php?t=178116

              Comment

              • Original Poster

                #8
                Ha! I have like four feet of line. I just went out and played with him. He is invading my space with his shoulders. I need to take a stand and keep his shoulders out. He loves to invade space, and I know, it is an ongoing respect issue. We are working on it. It was pretty clear when I just went out now. Thanks!

                equibrit, I am longing because we are just getting back into work after a winter off. I am reestablishing the expectations. Why are you asking?

                Comment


                • #9
                  If you want to establish the basic ground rules with this horse you are going to have to use the correct equipment and proceed in the correct manner. Side reins will help him develop topline muscle and enable you to establish straightness in his way of going. The correct length of lunge line will enable him to get the work done with less wear and tear on his joints. You need to be standing in the middle of a 20m circle with one foot planted holding a lunge whip which can reach the horse. Your position should be at the apex of a triangle whose base is a line from his back leg to his front. This will enable you to point to the back for forward and to the shoulder to keep him out on the circle. Your voice is also an important aid. Lively commands for go and softer singing for down transitions. Insist on prompt transitions and lively gaits. This way you are establishing very clear rules and dobbin will learn to respect them.
                  Maybe you should buy a book on the correct techniques or get a trainer to explain exactly why things are done in a particular way and why that is so important.
                  ... _. ._ .._. .._

                  Comment


                  • #10
                    Originally posted by 2boys View Post
                    Ha! I have like four feet of line. I just went out and played with him. He is invading my space with his shoulders. I need to take a stand and keep his shoulders out. He loves to invade space, and I know, it is an ongoing respect issue. We are working on it. It was pretty clear when I just went out now. Thanks!

                    equibrit, I am longing because we are just getting back into work after a winter off. I am reestablishing the expectations. Why are you asking?
                    lunging isnt playing its working the horse,,
                    your the apex your lunge line is oone side of a triangle and whip had is the other and the horse is the bottom you should start the horse going with folded lunge line line in say left hand if going left and of course the lunge shouldnt be attached to the same side your luning from
                    but on the opposite side now this can be done with a bridle and the lunge over the poll or under the chin, or it can be done middle ring on a lunge caversson
                    etc

                    to get the horse to move forwards you take a step nearrer his quarters so the horse moves forwards and you keep the triangle short or small unitl hes learn to go round as thats what your asking him- once learn as you let out the lunge line but keep it tuat if you dont you lose the contact and horse then can turn in,
                    you learnt to pivot on your leg on the side you lunging from, rather than walk or follow the horse as the object is to form the perfect circle if you walk you will be proforming ovals and mish mash work
                    if line is loose of floppy then the horse has the advantage either by pulling or turning in
                    read the links it will help you understand how to lunge properly

                    Comment

                    • Original Poster

                      #11
                      I have side reins, but am trying to avoid using them if at all possible. This horse has a tendency to curl up behind the bit (has since I got him), and I am just using the lunge line to warm up his joints, establish some expectations, and get any *kinks* out. I typically practice the essential components of lunging, but have shrunk the line to get to the bottom of this setback. From what I have read and seen, this is a viable plan of action. What I have done in the past few days of this, is to have him halt. Then have him walk off on a shorter line to maintain optimal control. From what I have learned, when teaching a horse the fundamentals of lunging, it needs to begin on a short line to maintain optimal control. Because he has taken such a backslide with this basic skill, I shrank the line accordingly. Once he gets going, he is *fine*. So I let the line back out to the recommended length. I realize that my position in relation to his body is crucial, and I know that any slight move in the wrong direction can throw us off. I try very hard every session to plant myself at the top of that triangle. Thanks for the reminders!

                      Comment


                      • #12
                        I'd say get thee to a Saddlebred/Morgan/Arab trainer, a dressage or driving or even some Western trainers, and take some lessons in long-lining. DO NOT try to learn this on your own horse - get lessons from someone who knows how, with a horse they own who also knows how. If you and your horse are both new to it, you and your horse both can end up in a world of hurt.

                        Quattro, who can be a typically bratty 3 y/o at times and turns to face me as a resistance, just had his first real long-lining (as opposed to ground driving in straight lines at a walk) lesson tonight. With 2 lines, I was able to catch him *thinking* about trying it - all I had to do was close the outside hand a little, and because I was already at his quarters, it was a piece o'cake to send him forward. I caught him all 5 times he tried it. Problem solved.

                        You will like the results of long-lining MUCH more than you will like the results of side reins. With long lines, YOU control the head position and the amount of weight in the bit; with side reins, the side reins control it.

                        You can even use long-lining to teach a young horse not to cross-canter, but don't ask me how I know this.
                        "The standard you walk by is the standard you accept."--Lt. Gen. David Morrison, Austalian Army Chief

                        Comment

                        • Original Poster

                          #13
                          Originally posted by War Admiral View Post
                          I'd say get thee to a Saddlebred/Morgan/Arab trainer, a dressage or driving or even some Western trainers, and take some lessons in long-lining. DO NOT try to learn this on your own horse - get lessons from someone who knows how, with a horse they own who also knows how. If you and your horse are both new to it, you and your horse both can end up in a world of hurt.

                          Quattro, who can be a typically bratty 3 y/o at times and turns to face me as a resistance, just had his first real long-lining (as opposed to ground driving in straight lines at a walk) lesson tonight. With 2 lines, I was able to catch him *thinking* about trying it - all I had to do was close the outside hand a little, and because I was already at his quarters, it was a piece o'cake to send him forward. I caught him all 5 times he tried it. Problem solved.

                          You will like the results of long-lining MUCH more than you will like the results of side reins. With long lines, YOU control the head position and the amount of weight in the bit; with side reins, the side reins control it.

                          You can even use long-lining to teach a young horse not to cross-canter, but don't ask me how I know this.
                          hmmm. Interesting. A few times, when I was trying to think of how to outsmart this critter, I looked at our positions, and thought, "If only I could control that other part of his body!" I felt like if I had that line, it would work. One of my trainers is in FL now, but I will have her try it out with him when she gets back. She just trained her four year old morgan to do it.

                          I do *think* I get what he is doing. Hopefully I am on to this latest trick.

                          Comment


                          • #14
                            Just as a quick fix...

                            A horse should only turn to face you on the longe line or in the round pen if they're invited in by your body language and energy. So look first at your body language; you should be squared up against the horse, your driving hand (or whip hand) back at the quarters, your leading hand ahead of the horse but not blocking him. It's hard to explain but horses are very quick to pick up on the slightest body language and any unintentional conflicting signals will confuse him, which will often make him stop and look at you for the next step--especially if you let your leading hand come too far toward his hindquarters, in which case he may take that as pressure and swing them away from you to face you.

                            If he's being pushy or rude--coming in when you're clearly asking him to keep moving, or barging in at you--go ahead and use whatever driving force you have to push his shoulder back out and on the track. If you've got the coiled-up end of the line in your right hand and he's supposed to be moving counterclockwise around you, go ahead and step toward his left shoulder when he turns in, swinging the rope overhand at him in a small circle. If he ignores you, swing it further out at him and even give him a good whap on the shoulder to make him move back and out on the track. Keep your leading hand out in the direction he should be travelling and let him follow the feel out--as soon as he moves his shoulder away from your driving hand and follows your leading hand back out on the track, praise him and keep him moving.
                            "Remain relentlessly cheerful."

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                            Comment

                            • Original Poster

                              #15
                              Originally posted by SarahandSam View Post
                              Just as a quick fix...

                              A horse should only turn to face you on the longe line or in the round pen if they're invited in by your body language and energy. So look first at your body language; you should be squared up against the horse, your driving hand (or whip hand) back at the quarters, your leading hand ahead of the horse but not blocking him. It's hard to explain but horses are very quick to pick up on the slightest body language and any unintentional conflicting signals will confuse him, which will often make him stop and look at you for the next step--especially if you let your leading hand come too far toward his hindquarters, in which case he may take that as pressure and swing them away from you to face you.

                              If he's being pushy or rude--coming in when you're clearly asking him to keep moving, or barging in at you--go ahead and use whatever driving force you have to push his shoulder back out and on the track. If you've got the coiled-up end of the line in your right hand and he's supposed to be moving counterclockwise around you, go ahead and step toward his left shoulder when he turns in, swinging the rope overhand at him in a small circle. If he ignores you, swing it further out at him and even give him a good whap on the shoulder to make him move back and out on the track. Keep your leading hand out in the direction he should be travelling and let him follow the feel out--as soon as he moves his shoulder away from your driving hand and follows your leading hand back out on the track, praise him and keep him moving.
                              I know, I am very careful with my *language* while he is lunging. Your second paragraph is exactly what I started doing this afternoon. He responded very well, but of course, I am not getting my hopes up too much. I *thought* we had this taken care of last week, and as we all know with horses, never count the chickens too early...And before winter, this was NEVER an issue!

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