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Horse Shopping: actually not so much fun, so far

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  • #21
    If the grey horse's issues on the PPE are possibly minor enough to reconsider him for your intended purpose, you might ask if you can have a different vet do another PPE. Or decide if you are willing to live within his limitations.

    I do sympathize - buying is HARD and FRUSTRATING - even just surfing the ones on the net, when you're seriously looking and spend hours a day at it, makes you want to put your fist through the computer screen!

    It took me a month to find mine and I REALLY did not have tough criteria. They were:

    Saddlebred.
    Sport type.
    Registered.
    Sound.
    Non-lordotic.
    Has a snowball's chance that it MIGHT make 16 hands...eventually.
    Please, God, ANY color but liver chestnut.

    That was ALL, and it still took me a month!

    Good luck and hang in there. You will find the right horse - or it will find you!
    Last edited by War Admiral; Apr. 5, 2009, 09:05 AM. Reason: lern 2 spel!~
    "The standard you walk by is the standard you accept."--Lt. Gen. David Morrison, Austalian Army Chief

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    • #22
      Think of it this way- it is a bigger pain in the ass to get rid of an inappropriate horse that you purchased in a rush.

      Comment


      • #23
        Originally posted by cranky View Post
        . . . . I am working with my trainer and she advised that if it was her decision, she would pass, it really looked that bad. Now, if I lived in a situation where I owned property that I could retire a horse to, I might be willing to take a chance. But I'm in a situation where I'm going to have to pay $650-$800/month for board alone. I can only afford one horse. I'm still upset about it and second-guessing myself, but I also don't want to be stupid and make an emotional decision that I'm going to regret later.
        I'm sorry. Please don't second guess yourself. You have to make some choices and it isn't fair to you or the horse to be buying one that has a serious issue at such a young age, especially if you have to pay to board. Best of luck in the search!
        Courageous Weenie Eventer Wannabe
        Incredible Invisible

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        • Original Poster

          #24
          Originally posted by ReSomething View Post
          I'm sorry. Please don't second guess yourself. You have to make some choices and it isn't fair to you or the horse to be buying one that has a serious issue at such a young age, especially if you have to pay to board. Best of luck in the search!

          Thanks very much for that. I really agonized over the decision and I'm still rather upset about it, so it's sometimes hard to read someone saying that maybe I made the wrong one, or should reconsider! Of course, I understand that it's quite hard on an internet BB when people don't know all of the facts. I guess I'm still feeling a little bit raw about it all.

          In the meantime I've responded to a few local ads that I've seen, and a couple that one of the trainers at my barn has also come across. So I'll see if anything comes of any of that. I'm sure once the Area I competition schedule ramps up and my trainer mingles with other people in the area, she may also start to hear about some potential horses.
          -Debbie / NH

          My Blog: http://deborahsulli.blogspot.com/

          Comment


          • #25
            Originally posted by magnolia73 View Post
            Think of it this way- it is a bigger pain in the ass to get rid of an inappropriate horse that you purchased in a rush.
            Amen.

            Ill share my horseshopping story so your not feeling alone.

            Dobbin had been dead a month. I needed to get shopping before school started--hard to get the kiddos from school when your in another state!

            Anyhoo, we went to Barn 1. I liked the horse until I watched video. The horse was funky behind--not lame but not good either. We passed.

            Barn 2-really liked this one, until it was pointed out (much later) that the bit was harsh perhaps for a reason, plus the horse was a tad smallish for my taste. This one was prob. my biggest mistake in passing on.

            Barn 3-BNT barn BTW-horse was fine but beginner safe wasnt in my list of wants. I will go to Walmart and ride the 50 cents per ride horses if I want that beginner safe.

            Ended up buying one from a local trainer--Flash turned out nuttier than squirrel poo.

            Called about a finished horse but he was to far away to expensive and getting to old.

            Got an auction special--not nutty, or funky behind, or small, beyond beginner-safe, cheap, and pretty. Now hes got some kind of something that might requires lots of vet visits!

            I hate horse shopping two. Bring me 3 and Ill pick! Good luck finding your nxt friend.
            “Management is doing things right; leadership is doing the right things.” Peter Drucker

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            • #26
              Originally posted by cranky View Post
              No, this was a five-year-old who had very significant navicular changes. The vet was actually alarmed, but took the x-rays around to a couple of other respected vets in the Aiken area and all conferred. I am working with my trainer and she advised that if it was her decision, she would pass, it really looked that bad. Now, if I lived in a situation where I owned property that I could retire a horse to, I might be willing to take a chance. But I'm in a situation where I'm going to have to pay $650-$800/month for board alone. I can only afford one horse. I'm still upset about it and second-guessing myself, but I also don't want to be stupid and make an emotional decision that I'm going to regret later.
              I understand...obviously it depends on how bad the PPE was. I wouldn't take ANYTHING with significant navicular changes. The horse I was referring to had ugly flexions (still ugly to this day), but clean x-rays and ultrasounds.

              I didn't mean to make you second guess yourself. I think you made the right call; its just that some people balk at anything other than 0 flexions and beautiful x-rays, and in that case, you can re-evaluate.

              I apologize if I upset you; that wasn't my intention. It wasn't clear in your OP what you meant by didn't vet, and I was just giving you my experience. Please don't take it the wrong way.

              Comment


              • #27
                I know I PM'd you before, but I'll post to see if others agree with my advice. I sold my horse in February, and spent the last 2 months looking aggressively for a horse (I'm talking checking the ads every day on equine.com, dreamhorse, area 1 and 2 websites, etc). I have a friend who was also looking, and we realized that the good horses get bought quickly. The horses that have been for sale for a while usually have a reason why. Sometimes it's as simple as the seller is impossible to get in contact with, and sometimes the horse has some issue, whether physical or mental, that makes it tough to sell. My trainer was somewhat involved--she knows some people, but didn't know of anything available. I went to try horses myself or with a friend, took video, and then came back and would show her. After trying 12 horses in 3 different states, I finally found something! I've only had him a couple of days, but I'm in love. I did vet one horse along the way, who had a bunch of little things, but the deal breaker was the coffin bone changes on x-ray indicating possible founder in the past. Yes, I too was very upset, but for me it was a combination of things--the seller was a pain, the findings on x-ray, etc. I got over it. And I'm glad things turned out the way they did because this horse I got is so much better than the one I vetted.

                Here's what I learned and my advice:
                -ask specific questions--has the horses been vetted before, any previous injuries, any previous x-rays, etc. Many times the seller won't tell you unless you ask.
                -ask about the horse's experience, and if they have a record and you see refusals or Es, ask why
                -try to find out who the previous owner was and then contact them. Often you will get more information which may reveal things the seller is hiding. I contacted the previous owner of my new horse and she had nothing but good things to say about him. it also filled in some gaps about his history.
                -be wary of any horse that has been turned out for a while and not in regular work--many times there is a reason
                -don't just rely on your trainer. Yes, many horses are sold through word of mouth, but many nice horses are listed on equine.com, dreamhorse, etc. I sold my horse through equine.com. I found my current horse on the trainer's website. he was not listed anywhere else. I was a bit psychotic, and looked at farm/trainer websites of most eventing barns in Area 1 and 2, and looked at the horses for sale section. That's how I found my new horse. And many times when I emailed about a particular horse, the seller would tell me about other horses they knew of.
                -be honest about your abilities and what you want. you may not be sure of what you want. i sat on a bunch of horses that were far greener than what I wanted, but that helped me figure things out. I also realized what kind of ride I want. Ask the seller how the horse likes to be ridden--does he like contact, does he accept leg, etc. This way you can save a lot of time looking at horses who aren't going to work. Get video (ideally) and pics before you go see the horse. Do all your homework before you make the trip! Even before you email/call the seller. I saw an ad for what I thought was a nice horse-advertised as a novice/BN horse. Well, I figured out his show name, looked up his record, and realized he'd never successfully competed at novice!
                Anyway, feel free to PM me if you want some more advice, or someone to talk to. yes, it can be depressing or frustrating. Also, be realistic about your budget. I don't know what you want to spend, but I realized that everything in my price range was broken, older than I wanted, or green. I had to up my budget. So somewhere you may need to compromise.

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                • #28
                  Let me add--it took about a year to find my horse. And I was pretty flexible in my needs. It's A<AMAZING what some of the sellers told me about their horses!

                  When I demurred about a horse with a large bone spur on its coffin joint:

                  "ALL horses have bone spurs!"

                  On a horse that refused to do lead changes:

                  "Oh, he never acts like that! It must be the way your trainer is riding him!"

                  And on and on and on...

                  Kim
                  I loff my Quarter horse clique

                  I kill threads dead!

                  Comment


                  • #29
                    Sometimes people do find the right horse when it is the first horse they look at.

                    I had a CANTER mare I was fostering and retraining for over a year and while a half a dozen people came to look at her, the lady who bought her...it was the first horse she'd looked at! She made herself go look at a couple more, then decided she liked her. I took her to the vet, where she did a pretty thorough vetting, but not too many xrays (just the stifles and hocks based on flexions), and she bought her.

                    It has been close to a year and she loves her.

                    I have very short lists of criteria when I buy a horse and it has always been pretty easy.

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                    • #30
                      I will have to disagree with the statement that if they have been on the market for a long time there is a reason. For example, I have a lovely horse that is owned by CANTER MA. I have had him for over a year in which he has a solid record eventing, has fox hunted, trail ridden and done all the things an ammy could ever want. He has been on the market for 9 of the months I have owned him and only two people have looked at him. I write a blog on his retraining experience so anybody could read about his daily adventures and see there are no holes. I have almost started thinking people won't come look b/c he has been on the market so long. Makes me want to name him something different and put up new ads..and yes that works sometimes.

                      Same with a few of the other horses in my barn but all of sudden in the last month I am gettings tons and tons of emails and calls. Looks like two are potentially sold after being on the market for several months. I think some of the reasons are winter, economy and lots of horses out there.
                      http://www.benchmarksporthorses.com/

                      Comment


                      • #31
                        I think that if a horse doesn't have a USEA record and is being advertised as an eventer, it will be a little bit harder to sell. Yes, the horse has been to unrecognized events, but many times it is hard to find the records of these. I personally have nothing against this--but I know many buyers do. I looked at a lovely mare (the one who didn't vet) who had done mostly unrecognized events and had no USEA record. The seller told me very few people had come to see her. I agree that the economy plays a role, but with that I think it was because of her lack of record. Hey, I almost didn't see her because of her lack of record--it was the videos that made me change my mind, and trying her that made me change my thinking. Especially in this economy, buyers might feel more comfortable putting their money into a horse with an official record. I looked into a few horses of the same price, similar experience etc, but if the horse had an official record, I was more likely to look into that horse. As a buyer, I want to get the most for my money.

                        There were several horses I looked into that had been for sale for a while. I found that:
                        -many sellers never got back to me (and the ad was just posted so I find it hard to believe that the horse had sold)
                        -horse had behavioral issues
                        -horse not as advertised--much hotter and was a head tosser
                        -horse has navicular changes on x-rays, found because horse was lame at some point
                        -horse has had a major injury--suspensory, previous fracture, etc
                        -horse has stable vices that may not appeal to some people--cribbing, weaving, stall walker, etc

                        Anyway, that was just my experience. I admit, because of the horses I came across, I am suspect when I see a horse that has been for sale for a while!
                        Last edited by luise; Apr. 6, 2009, 09:08 AM.

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                        • #32
                          I thought shopping for a new horse would be "fun" too.

                          After spending a ton of money on phone calls and gas (it was $3.75/gal then) and seeing too many sad & rank backyard beasts, I decided I needed to tighten my criteria.

                          I decided to narrow to horses trained in both E&W, and color. I realize I shouldn't discount a perfect horse because of the color, but I was sending my beloved first horse over the bridge.
                          She was white.
                          I wanted any color horse but a white one. An emotional decision.

                          Amazingly, sellers would get angry that I wouldn't even come out to see the horse if it was any type of white.

                          Comment


                          • #33
                            I really hate horse shopping so that is why this time I did everything on line off videos. Not for the feint of heart but I ended up with the best horse OF ALL TIME (even if he did walk of the trailer much skinnier then I expected). I also had an extremely experienced person helping me and the one I got was her pick as well.

                            Good luck in your search, the right one is out there.

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                            • #34
                              Originally posted by luise View Post
                              -many sellers never got back to me (and the ad was just posted so I find it hard to believe that the horse had sold)
                              That is my biggest pet peeve in my search for a horse I put out over 20 emails and calls I had one person respond to me. I got lucky however the one that responded had the perfect horse for me, and I love him to death.

                              But while helping my friend search for a horse I had the same problem. We were serious buyers, and we always called (as well as emailed) when a phone number was left and emailed otherwise. not once in the 15 or so contacts did I get a single response. Thankfully the perfect horse for her turned out to be a green freebie from an alumni University Equestrian Team member.

                              And again same problem when searching for a pony, lots of non-responses, but again the perfect one came along and I got her for MUCH MUCH less than any pony out there!

                              Anyway moral of the story, even though the process sucks, it will lead to something great. You might go "well this horse is OK maybe I can just settle" but don't do it your right horse is out there, it just takes time.

                              Good luck and I hope you find your perfect match soon!
                              Horses are amazing physicists, they know the exact angle, thrust, speed required to land you face first in the only pile of poop in the entire arena

                              Comment


                              • #35
                                Originally posted by cu.at.x View Post
                                Unless we're one of the odd ones, I don't think horse shopping is *ever* fun! I must say I am sick of 14.2hh horses being advertised as 15.1 and "dressage prospect" meaning "has four legs.."
                                I always have the opposite problem. I go to see a 15.1H horse and its actually 16.1.
                                Lowly Farm Hand with Delusions of Barn Biddieom.
                                Witherun Farm
                                http://witherun-farm.blogspot.com/

                                Comment

                                • Original Poster

                                  #36
                                  Originally posted by Jleegriffith View Post
                                  I will have to disagree with the statement that if they have been on the market for a long time there is a reason. For example, I have a lovely horse that is owned by CANTER MA. I have had him for over a year in which he has a solid record eventing, has fox hunted, trail ridden and done all the things an ammy could ever want. He has been on the market for 9 of the months I have owned him and only two people have looked at him. I write a blog on his retraining experience so anybody could read about his daily adventures and see there are no holes. I have almost started thinking people won't come look b/c he has been on the market so long. Makes me want to name him something different and put up new ads..and yes that works sometimes.

                                  Same with a few of the other horses in my barn but all of sudden in the last month I am gettings tons and tons of emails and calls. Looks like two are potentially sold after being on the market for several months. I think some of the reasons are winter, economy and lots of horses out there.

                                  JLee,

                                  I wish you were closer to me, I'd definitely come look at your guys!
                                  -Debbie / NH

                                  My Blog: http://deborahsulli.blogspot.com/

                                  Comment

                                  • Original Poster

                                    #37
                                    Originally posted by luise View Post
                                    I think that if a horse doesn't have a USEA record and is being advertised as an eventer, it will be a little bit harder to sell. Yes, the horse has been to unrecognized events, but many times it is hard to find the records of these. I personally have nothing against this--but I know many buyers do. I looked at a lovely mare (the one who didn't vet) who had done mostly unrecognized events and had no USEA record. The seller told me very few people had come to see her. I agree that the economy plays a role, but with that I think it was because of her lack of record. Hey, I almost didn't see her because of her lack of record--it was the videos that made me change my mind, and trying her that made me change my thinking. Especially in this economy, buyers might feel more comfortable putting their money into a horse with an official record. I looked into a few horses of the same price, similar experience etc, but if the horse had an official record, I was more likely to look into that horse. As a buyer, I want to get the most for my money.
                                    I think if it does have a USEA record that it can be very revealing. As an adult ammie who doesn't have much competition experience and who admittedly hasn't been back at this for very long, I do want to have some idea of whether the horse can do the job that I want, without my having to invest a ton of money into professional training and without having to risk my neck. Doesn't have to be a prelim packer, but I'd like to at least know that we're going to be able to get around BN happily and safely. There was a horse ad that I responded to the other day. Horse was advertised as a N packer. I asked for the show name and looked up the record. Well, turns out that the horse has been eliminated from every sanctioned N event it's been to, and most the BN ones as well. Further turns out that one of the trainers in my barn is familiar with the horse and that it has a reputation for being a real stinker.

                                    That record does help to tell a good part of the story. That being said, I wouldn't rule out a horse that hasn't had sanctioned event experience, if we could determine that he has potential for the job. It's just a little harder and maybe a little riskier without it.
                                    -Debbie / NH

                                    My Blog: http://deborahsulli.blogspot.com/

                                    Comment


                                    • #38
                                      Originally posted by cranky View Post
                                      I think if it does have a USEA record that it can be very revealing. As an adult ammie who doesn't have much competition experience and who admittedly hasn't been back at this for very long, I do want to have some idea of whether the horse can do the job that I want, without my having to invest a ton of money into professional training and without having to risk my neck. Doesn't have to be a prelim packer, but I'd like to at least know that we're going to be able to get around BN happily and safely. There was a horse ad that I responded to the other day. Horse was advertised as a N packer. I asked for the show name and looked up the record. Well, turns out that the horse has been eliminated from every sanctioned N event it's been to, and most the BN ones as well. Further turns out that one of the trainers in my barn is familiar with the horse and that it has a reputation for being a real stinker.

                                      That record does help to tell a good part of the story. That being said, I wouldn't rule out a horse that hasn't had sanctioned event experience, if we could determine that he has potential for the job. It's just a little harder and maybe a little riskier without it.

                                      I agree! If I saw two horses for sale, both $12K, similar age, breed, etc, one with a decent USEA record and one who's only done unrecognized events, well, I'm going to look at the one first who has the record.
                                      I know the horse you are talking about--bay TB in MA, right? He was listed on USEA a couple of months ago. I figured out the name by looking up the results listed and also found the bad record. Don't call him a novice horse if he's never successfully competed at that level! It is very frustrating. You learn how to be a very good detective. I bet we are (were) in the same budget. Feel free to PM me--maybe I've come across something that might work for you. I am in CT. In the end I ended up upping my budget, and buying a horse 10 hrs away, but I love him!

                                      Comment


                                      • #39
                                        covering bases

                                        without having read page two, are you doing your due diligence? I'll agree with the poster who said being the seller is no fun either.

                                        Are you getting videos of the horses before you go? (are you shopping in the budget where videos are reasonable?)
                                        Are you watching other people ride, and explaining *VERY CANDIDLY* how you ride?
                                        Are you asking if the horse will vet and making your intentions of how thorough a vetting you expect it to pass? I find a lot of folks will be far more honest with issues if you tell them you'll be xraying XY&Z joints.

                                        We've gotten to the point where I want either proof of your riding ability (show records, videos, etc) or a trainer present who can ride a horse first. We've had SO MANY people overstate their abilities and sit on a green horse and nearly get injured that I'm no longer willing to chance it.

                                        Dont get discourage, just go into horse shopping the same way you would house shopping--it might take a while.

                                        Comment

                                        • Original Poster

                                          #40
                                          Originally posted by luise View Post
                                          I agree! If I saw two horses for sale, both $12K, similar age, breed, etc, one with a decent USEA record and one who's only done unrecognized events, well, I'm going to look at the one first who has the record.
                                          I know the horse you are talking about--bay TB in MA, right? He was listed on USEA a couple of months ago. I figured out the name by looking up the results listed and also found the bad record. Don't call him a novice horse if he's never successfully competed at that level! It is very frustrating. You learn how to be a very good detective. I bet we are (were) in the same budget. Feel free to PM me--maybe I've come across something that might work for you. I am in CT. In the end I ended up upping my budget, and buying a horse 10 hrs away, but I love him!
                                          Yes, I suspect that I'm ultimately going to have to up my budget. The upside is, the longer this takes, the more budget I should end up having anyway, as it gives me more time to save! Especially now that I'm focused on this and less likely to be pissing my money away on stupid stuff. Originally I was thinking that this time next year would be when I would start looking. But finding my "Almost Dream Horse" in Aiken a few weeks ago really made me catch the bug and I'm motivated now. My trip also allowed me to become more friendly with some of the other women at the barn and having my own horse will allow me to participate in more stuff (in addition to competitions) with them, so that's also added some incentive.

                                          btw, I suspect that is the horse I was talking about!
                                          -Debbie / NH

                                          My Blog: http://deborahsulli.blogspot.com/

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