Horses being poached in FL!!

[Ridge Runner]

Does anyone actually beleive when cattle or other species of livestock are stolen and slaughtered the owner some how is less upset and has less feelings of loss then when a horse is? Some of you people are just down right sad and insulting, you really haven't got a clue do you? Close down all slaughter plants so no stolen animal is slaughtered? Ya I'm sure the 300,000,000 people in this country alone are going to stop eating meat.

Why not make the slaughterhouses responsible to check the ownership of a animals they buy from dealers or drive ups? In other words, ask for registration papers, coggins, brand inspections, bills of sale, etc? The way it is done now is no one asks any questions and it is really easy to get away with the theft of any animal and slaughter it. Somehow I find it hard to imagine how the purchase of stolen goods and then slaughtering the stolen property makes them exempt from the law. Somehow I think some burden to prevent the destruction of stolen animals has to be placed on the slaughterhouses and if they have to slow down long enough to look for brands and check paperwork..too bad.

[bayou_bengal]

Great idea Daydream Believer-- MAKE the slaughter houses have to check the paperwork -- but bills of sale can be easily forged. Papers often don't go with the horse through an auction, but making the auction houses have to be more careful about proof of ownership AND making the slaughterhouses more responsible -- THAT might help.

BUT that will not do anything to prevent the killing and butchering of horses like Geronimo. Placing more stringent penalties on the crime of horse theft might, though.

I looked at the info that was posted earlier, and the photos of horses who were actually butchered in their OWN stables was just outrageous, as well as what happened to Geronimo.

The clip that featured his owner pleading that these thefts and butcherings need to be investigated and the criminals arrested was very sad. It's nice to see that there is a $2,500 reward being offered.

But this kind of thing is not happening just in FL. There have been reports of horses being stolen and found butchered near by in other states, usually states with a high percentage of foreign-born inhabitants. One recent report posted by a stable owner on the Internet said she interrupted a theft and the men involved were not speaking English. She was actually punched by one of them.

She saved that horse, but she found that two yearlings were also missing. Police found a bloodstained horse trailer on a nearby road, but no trace of the missing yearlings. Hummmmm

[county]

Why not make the slaughter plants check ownership records? Because the U.S. has no power in Can. and Mex. to make them do anything.

And because one person didn't feel the same loss for a horse as a cow everyone should? I hardly think so.

[Ridge Runner]

True County...but they could not be bothered to do so when the plants operated in the US. Border crossings could be more regulated...and they should be for all horses going over the border...not just pleasure horses. For cattle or other animals though, theft could be controlled more if records of ownership and transfers of ownership were required and tags and brands checked.

[county]

Not be bothered? Why should they if the Gov. didn't have a law to do so? I don't think its they who couldn't be bothered at all.

[summerhorse]

Not be bothered? Why should they if the Gov. didn't have a law to do so? I don't think its they who couldn't be bothered at all.

They do have laws, routinely ignored.

[sharonsfun21]

[QUOTE=SevenDogs;3962281]You have valid points if inhumane, unregulated slaughter of animals is taking place at some "zoo" facilities. However, I fail to see the ethnicity of those doing the slaughtering as relevant. In doing so, you reduce your credibility, in my eyes.

Did you report what you witnessed to any authorities? Was anything done?

Yes, it has been reported and charges will be brought! As for the ethnicity, the point I was making was that these are illegals that should not be in this country let alone killing animals and that is fact!
I personally do not care if I lose credibility in your eyes. I know what goes on there, been there several times and the only one I need to impress is the Judge when he passed a jail term for the killer.

[silver2]

BECAUSE WE ALREADY HAVE TOO MANY! I'd like to grow weed at my cottage and make a business of that. I don't think it harms anyone and if people didn't like my particular weed but some did that is fine. It would be a business. BUT...I can't because it is not a legal way to make a living. If it were not legal to breed endless amounts of horses than fewer people would run the risk.

You've obviously never been to a weed-growing area like humboldt, lol. Making it illegal makes the profits so great that everyone is willing to run the risk in an area where it's easy to offload the product.

Face it people: if there were suddenly only 1/10th as many horses the price of meat would jump and people would begin to breed specifically for the slaughter market. I imagine that cut off isn't very high either- if you could reliably get, say, $2+/lb for horse meat it would probably be economical to breed drafty types some places in the country and sell them as 2 year olds directly to slaughter houses. Pearl clutching isn't going to stop that.

For comparison lets look at the fishing industry: red snapper sells at the dock for about 15c per pound, cod for about 30c per pound. Add in diesel, crew, insurance, boats costs and raising horses for meat starts to look like a good deal in some places!

[silver2]

And how stupid of the people buying this meat...would you want to eat beef that was slaughtered on the side of the road? I sure wouldn't..yuck..but it sure serves them right if they get sick from it.

I would sure as hell prefer to eat deer butchered near the road because it's a lot less far to carry the meat It's probably a hell of a lot cleaner and safer than a slaughterhouse floor to boot.

[Ridge Runner]

Not be bothered? Why should they if the Gov. didn't have a law to do so? I don't think its they who couldn't be bothered at all.

Agree with Summerhorse. It has always been against the law to deal in stolen property...the problem is that no one has ever enforced the law. Perhaps if they had bothered to care, people would not have been so quick to try to shut them down?

BTW.. I don't agree that the stolen horse scenario has gotten worse since slaughter was outsourced as there are so many very cheap horses to be had legally.

This nightmare in Florida is just crazy and I hope they catch this psycho and stop him fast.

[county]

I don't see where anyone said it was legal to deal in stolen property. What I said was theres no laws saying a slaughter house has the job to check and see if livestock has been stolen its the same for any species not just horses.

[SevenDogs]

[QUOTE=sharonsfun21;3963510]

You have valid points if inhumane, unregulated slaughter of animals is taking place at some "zoo" facilities. However, I fail to see the ethnicity of those doing the slaughtering as relevant. In doing so, you reduce your credibility, in my eyes.

Did you report what you witnessed to any authorities? Was anything done?

Yes, it has been reported and charges will be brought! As for the ethnicity, the point I was making was that these are illegals that should not be in this country let alone killing animals and that is fact!
I personally do not care if I lose credibility in your eyes. I know what goes on there, been there several times and the only one I need to impress is the Judge when he passed a jail term for the killer.

Very, very happy to hear that charges are being brought against any facility acting illegally or inhumanely. I commend you for your work in uncovering and helping put a stop to this, as well as rescuing horses from a horrible fate. I truly hope that you are wildly successful in getting jail time for those responsible.

If the actual slaughtering is being done by illegal aliens, it is likely because the already unethical, illegal owners of the facility can pay them substandard wages. If these workers were not available, they would just get somebody else and illegal slaughter would still continue.

The real bad guys here (and the ones that I am hoping you have helped apprehend) are the owners and/or managers of the facility. Unless you are telling me that the owners/managers of the facility are illegal aliens, the nationality of the actual workers in not relevant, IMO.

I was not asking you to impress me. I was simply letting you know, as someone that was listening to your story, that you might want to avoid what could be perceived as racist and irrelevant remarks if you are looking for support. Perhaps I am the only one that feels that way. Perhaps others find it a compelling argument. Perhaps it will influence the judge positively. I don't know. I was simply telling you that I thought it took away from your very convincing argument that I would like to see be successful. Do with that information what is best for you.

[Ridge Runner]

I don't see where anyone said it was legal to deal in stolen property. What I said was theres no laws saying a slaughter house has the job to check and see if livestock has been stolen its the same for any species not just horses.

My point that I seem to be having a hard time getting across is that if the slaughterhouses were held responsible for killing stolen animals and prosecuted for doing so, they might be a a bit more proactive in asking for proof of ownership before taking and killing animals that might be stolen. Sounds like no one has held their feet to the fire so they get away with murder...pun intended. All I'm suggesting is that existing laws be upheld such as preventing stolen property from being shipped over the international borders or prosecuting a slaughterhouse that accepts stolen property without some form of proof of ownership by the seller. Certainly when cattle are sold, there must be some documentation. Make them show it, look at brands and ear tags, etc...

I'd also prosecute auctions that allow stolen animals to be sold via their premises. If the auctions would verify ownership by asking for coggins, reg. papers, brand inspections, health certificiates, etc....there would be a lot less stolen animals to begin with. I've been to those meat sales and they don't ask when you show up with a horse...not for the horses name or for anything else.

[abbydp]

Daydream I agree with you. If they process a stolen animal (if you want to consider it property), that animal or property can never be returned to it's former value. How hard can it be to verify that an animal is rightfully there? And yes I know papers can be falisfied, but if you make the low life pieces of shit that would steal an animal and sell it to slaughter work a little harder, maybe the geniuses will come up with a new, easier scam. I am not arguing against slaughter, I am not a vegetarian. BUT the plants should also be held accountable since what is done can not be undone.

[county]

I agree there would be less stolen livestock but the fact is most states you don't need a coggins even to sell at auctions. And very few require any proof of ownership for cattle or any species of livestock. Here I haul cattle to the slaughter plant 17 miles away, unload, walk in the office and get my check. No one has to check anything, I don't have to show anything. I'm in and out in less then 10 minutes with the money in my pocket. All 100% legal.

[TrueColours]

And yes I know papers can be falisfied, but if you make the low life pieces of shit that would steal an animal and sell it to slaughter work a little harder, maybe the geniuses will come up with a new, easier scam

BUt that still wont stop those that walk into a barn or a pasture and butcher the horses there and leave the carcasses and take the meat away to be sold ...

No way in Hell of checking where that meat orginated from

[abbydp]

I wish I had some idea of how to stop the horror this post started about. I had nightmares about it all night. I can not imagine what those owners are going through. I have to say - if it ever happens to mine I hope my family has bail money. If I ever got my hands on the person they would look just like Geronimo by the time I was done with them.

[smm20]

Exactly - slaughterhouse and auctionhouse regulations do nothing to stop Mr. Coldblooded Killer from sneaking into your field and butchering Frosty to sell on the black market for $20/lb. The only thing that stops this from happening is making horse meat available at butcher shops to those who desire to purchase it.

There don't even have to be slaughterhouses in North America for this to work (thus eliminating issues with theft for sale at auction) - allow it to be imported from Japan, like Kobe Beef. Sure, it will be expensive, but not as expensive as $20/lb, and it won't be someone's pet.

I just find it surprising that I can go online and purchase chocolate covered ants, or salted crickets, but that those who want to eat horse, can't. Foods like rabbits and adult sheep (mutton) are much more popular in other countries than they are here. Americans may think that mutton is not very good to eat, but I can still go to a butcher and order it if I really want it.

People in other parts of the world eat horse, guinea pigs and dogs. When these people immigrate to the US, these meats are not available to them. However, unlike horses, dogs and guinea pigs can be raised in your backyard. If I wanted to eat a dog, in theory, I could breed my own and eat it, and no one would know. I wouldn't have to steal my neighbor's dog.

Horses are a different story - most people who want to eat horses cannot raise one in their backyard. Instead, they buy the meat on the black market and unfortunately, in Florida, this meat is coming from people's pets.

[gwenrowdy]

Whoever is doing this is going to be looking down the business end of a shotgun sooner or later-or find themselves with a very angry dog attached to their butts. If someone is in desperate need of food, there are certainly easier and saner ways to get it. These incidents sound like the equine version of thrill killings to me, with some freezer meat thrown in as a bonus. Those guys are either completely nuts or they just stumbled out of a cave.

[county]

Their not desperate for food at all, their after a certain kind of food. Stubbled out of a cave? Why because of the type food their after? Would it be better if it was say beef? I don't see how its any differeant then stealing any other species of livestock to eat.