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Horses being poached in FL!!

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  • #21
    SOmeone had made a breed-specific comment which seems to have vanished (or I am hallucinating again).
    Just pulled up stats for two popular breeds - AQHA and TB. Looking at registrations, TBs have stayed pretty consistent, and there are approximately 3x the numbers of QH registered annually in comparison. How are other breeds faring, and is there any correlation with excess horses?
    http://www.aqha.com/association/pdf/horsestats08.pdf
    http://www.jockeyclub.com/factbook.asp?section=2
    What I am trying to understand is, when the prices of horses are supposedly down, are we seeing such high numbers being bred?
    Dee
    Founder of the I LOFF my worrywart TB clique!
    Official member of the "I Sing Silly Songs to My Animals!" Clique
    http://wilddiamondintherough.blogspot.ca/

    Comment


    • #22
      Just some random thoughts:

      1. I am horrified at the way some people will do anything for money. I know times are tough but stealing people's pets?????

      2. One of the key differences that seems to make horse slaughter more revolting than other livestock is that (to my knowledge) horses are not bred and raised in this country as a food commodity, whereas beef, chicken and pork are. The closest commodity as far as I can tell is racing and it's a difficult situation to be sure - the business decisions that racing breeders make is not in my line of thinking, as I have horses as companions and family members. I would like to see the racing industry be different, but am not sure how it would be changed to support non producing or non contributing foals/weanlings/etc. I'm not heartless but practical - other than slowing down the breeding rates, or regulating them, I'm not sure how to cull the best and what could be humanely done with the rest. Are there programs to address this now? (the same holds true for dog breeders, I assume)

      3. Horse slaughter, as well as all the "kill" animal shelters are similar issues to me. Every day there are lovely animals out there that were once pets or were bred, etc. It plagues me that their lives end so senselessly and in this case horrifically.

      I'm not really making any statements here - just wondering if anyone has similar thoughts or can elucidate on any of my questions.

      Sad in upstate NY . . .

      Comment


      • #23
        Originally posted by county View Post
        I had no idea you were supposed to be? Is it a race?
        Not sure if you are getting you're back up or making a funny.

        I'm not against slaughter...don't love it, wouldn't send my own horses to that end but I do see the necessity for it right now.

        I read that sobering stat on another thread about the slaughter house up here in Canada that processes 200 horses a day and couldn't help but think that it excessive. That is just one facility. To me, that just indicates there are way too many friggin' horses and that slaughtering is a crappy solution. I am trying to understand what sort of shift in the horse world would need to happen to limit slaughter to the old, infirm...instead of what is likely a large number of perfectly good horses. I don't feel that a lot of the anti-slaughter folks offer much in the way of solutions. You are closer to the reality of the situation and I think you are the one to ask. I do think that breeding crappy stock is a problem. If you own a Hickstead then ok, breed away but I know way too many idiots with a POS Canadian (WTF even is that??) that can't wait to breed her. Why??? If you intend to keep everything you breed of that caliber then go nuts but that isn't what a lot of people do. I'm sure these same people would have a stroke if they were faced with the reality of spending a couple of hours at a slaughter facility. Wake up idiots! I have far more respect for you, understanding the reality of the situation and acknowledging where some of your horses may end up. If you are cognizant of the situation and not breaking any laws or abusive with your stock that is your right. I'm ok with that.

        I also find fault with the thbd breeders. I have a lovely ottb that could very easily have met a much different fate. He was a very mediocre race horse that by all appearances just barely earned his keep. I am very glad to have him but he is probably a horse that should never have been born. I know breeding is not an exact science but of all the breeds thbds are as close as you can get to it. I wish there could be a limit to how many coverings you could do/year. Mare didn't get pregnant? Foal didn't make it? Horse turns out to be a dud? Too bad. Try again next year. Wouldn't that eventually help not only the breed but the overpopulation problem?
        "look deep into his pedigree. Look for the name of a one-of-a-kind horse who lends to his kin a fierce tenacity, a will of iron, a look of eagles. Look & know that Slew is still very much with us."

        Comment


        • #24
          Living in Florida, I resisted posting this last week when the story first broke, because I knew it would turn into a slaughter debate. The fact is, this has nothing to do with whether or not slaughter is legal or not. This has been going on for years, long before slaughter was illegal. It has even happened here in the Orlando area years ago. Without getting flamed, it seems to be primarily hispanics who are doing this, whether it is for a religous beliefs as some think, or a culture thing, I don't know. What is so disturbing to me is that they feel they can just take someone's beloved animal...there are so many freebies on CL and rumors of loose horses in the everglades...why do they have to take what is not theirs? To me that is the bigger issue everyone seems to forget...this is STEALING! This is not a slaughter debate! I feel for the owners and could not imagine finding the remains of one of my horses slaughtered in a field. How horrific for the horse and the owner. I cannot imagine what the horse had to endure in its final moments..to be so trusting to let itself be led away in the middle of the night and then to be tortured like that. The horse that was slaughtered here in Orlando a few years ago was slaughtered alive..
          Lori T
          www.calypsofarmeventers.blogspot.com
          www.facebook.com/LoriTankelPhotography
          www.facebook.com/LTEquine for product updates on the lines I rep

          Comment


          • #25
            I assure you I don't have my back up its very very rare I ever do and never on the internet I don't even know you.

            200 head a day isn't even a drop in the bucket for the slaughter industry there are plants that can handle 1000's of head for one species or another everyday.

            And ya it would be great is someone didn't breed something you, me, or someone else doesn't like but thats not our business or right to decide what should be bred. Theres people on here that think what I breed is junk and have stated so. I like what I breed very much as do my customers why should I quit breeding just because someone doesn't like what I have? Why should anyone?
            Quality doesn\'t cost it pays.

            Comment


            • #26
              Price of horsemeat, over-, underpopulation of horses really don't matter in this respect. Face it, there is a huge demand for horsemeat worldwide. The U.S., claiming to be this "melting pot", would have done better by regulating, as opposed to eliminating, horse slaughter.

              Comment


              • #27
                The U.S. tryed to ban alcohol and it didn't work I hardly think banning the food some like will work any better.
                Quality doesn\'t cost it pays.

                Comment

                • Original Poster

                  #28
                  The fact is, this has nothing to do with whether or not slaughter is legal or not.
                  I agree 100%. This has "0" to do with whether or not you agree or disagree with slaughter and whether or not it is legal or illegal

                  Its stealing something that isnt yours, that you have not purchased or had given to you, and killing it in a horrific manner

                  THATS what this is all about ...
                  www.TrueColoursFarm.com
                  www.truecoloursproducts.com

                  True Colours Farm on Facebook

                  Comment


                  • #29
                    Originally posted by county View Post
                    I assure you I don't have my back up its very very rare I ever do and never on the internet I don't even know you.

                    200 head a day isn't even a drop in the bucket for the slaughter industry there are plants that can handle 1000's of head for one species or another everyday.

                    And ya it would be great is someone didn't breed something you, me, or someone else doesn't like but thats not our business or right to decide what should be bred. Theres people on here that think what I breed is junk and have stated so. I like what I breed very much as do my customers why should I quit breeding just because someone doesn't like what I have? Why should anyone?
                    BECAUSE WE ALREADY HAVE TOO MANY! I'd like to grow weed at my cottage and make a business of that. I don't think it harms anyone and if people didn't like my particular weed but some did that is fine. It would be a business. BUT...I can't because it is not a legal way to make a living. If it were not legal to breed endless amounts of horses than fewer people would run the risk. Poor analogy maybe. I think because we have living, breathing, feeling entities involved it is far more important. We can't stop people from having too many kids that burden society but it is far more ethically sound (IMO) to do so with animals. I know it is far fetched....who would enforce it, how would they enforce, how long is a rope...but I am just thinking aloud (in a non-linear fashion as usual) and trying to wrap my brain around how we got to this point and what can be done.

                    And yes, this is ot and I forget how this discussion ended up on this thread...sorry, maybe county and I should pm.
                    "look deep into his pedigree. Look for the name of a one-of-a-kind horse who lends to his kin a fierce tenacity, a will of iron, a look of eagles. Look & know that Slew is still very much with us."

                    Comment


                    • #30
                      This thread is about the theft and killing of privately owned horses. It is not about the business of slaughter plants. So, back to the OP...

                      Have their been any leads at all? Any suspects? Was there easy access to the horses? Someone mentioned loose horses in the everglades. Guess those loose horses would require too much "work" for the killers to hunt down and mutilate.

                      What a horrifying story. Poor horses, poor owners.

                      Comment


                      • #31
                        This has nothing to do with slaughter. It is just a bunch of criminals making a quick buck. Just bad.

                        Comment


                        • #32
                          Originally posted by sisu27 View Post
                          I'm not against slaughter...don't love it, wouldn't send my own horses to that end but I do see the necessity for it right now.

                          I don't feel that a lot of the anti-slaughter folks offer much in the way of solutions.
                          I do think that breeding crappy stock is a problem. If you own a Hickstead then ok, breed away but I know way too many idiots with a POS Canadian (WTF even is that??) that can't wait to breed her. Why??? If you intend to keep everything you breed of that caliber then go nuts but that isn't what a lot of people do. I'm sure these same people would have a stroke if they were faced with the reality of spending a couple of hours at a slaughter facility. Wake up idiots! I have far more respect for you, understanding the reality of the situation and acknowledging where some of your horses may end up. If you are cognizant of the situation and not breaking any laws or abusive with your stock that is your right. I'm ok with that.

                          I also find fault with the thbd breeders. I have a lovely ottb that could very easily have met a much different fate. He was a very mediocre race horse that by all appearances just barely earned his keep. I am very glad to have him but he is probably a horse that should never have been born. I know breeding is not an exact science but of all the breeds thbds are as close as you can get to it. I wish there could be a limit to how many coverings you could do/year. Mare didn't get pregnant? Foal didn't make it? Horse turns out to be a dud? Too bad. Try again next year. Wouldn't that eventually help not only the breed but the overpopulation problem?
                          You hit on the solution in your post. Breed fewer, breed better. A UTERUS IS NOT A CLOWN CAR.
                          Using E.P. Taylor`s philosophy, breed the best to the best, and hope for the best.
                          Whether it is a Cheval Canadien, and there are some lovely talented horses in that breed, or a TB, or a Selle Francaise, or a QH....why do we breed mediocrity? HOWEVER....if you want to look at the TB industry more closely, success on the track can be a crapshoot. A horse can be bred up the yin-yang and end up doing nothing....look at The Green Monkey, for example. The horse sold for SIXTEEN MILLION DOLLARS, and is a farking MAIDEN. Was he bred to do well? Absolutely. DId he have the best of care and training? Again, for $16M, you had better believe it. But, he turned into the biggest joke in the racing industry. Far more successful horses have ended up in the kill pen, just because IT CAN HAPPEN. These are horses who are bred through a careful consideration of dosage, nicking, bloodlines, etc. If it can happen to them, it can happen to ANY horse. So, if we take Joe Blow Backyard Breeder, who is willing to breed anything with a uterus, where do we expect those babies to end up?
                          So, when we get into AI, and embryo transfer....are there any ethics that can apply there? Plenty of people have bought into the hype of a freshman sire, bred everything they have to it, and end up with garbage. I know a local TB breeder who had a stakes placed stallion, stood him to anything going, and ended up with several years of extremely low quality foal. GOOD breeding isn`t for dummies, but it doesn`t seem like there has to be any qualifications beyond owning two intact horses to make someone a breeder.
                          Rant over.
                          Dee
                          Founder of the I LOFF my worrywart TB clique!
                          Official member of the "I Sing Silly Songs to My Animals!" Clique
                          http://wilddiamondintherough.blogspot.ca/

                          Comment


                          • #33
                            99% of us realize this IS NOT ABOUT SLAUGHTER but rather about theft.

                            County, however seems to be most appreciative of the sight of his/her name in print. Probably best to simply ignore his/her posts as they are all rather redundant.

                            http://community.webshots.com/user/ballyduff
                            \"If you are going through hell, keep going.\" ~Churchill~

                            Comment


                            • #34
                              sisu27 I agree we have to many and have said no less. But I'm not going to back taking someones right away to breed a horse I just think theres way way more important things for our gov. and law enforcement to do. Like stopping people from stealing livestock and slaughtering them for instance.
                              Quality doesn\'t cost it pays.

                              Comment

                              • Original Poster

                                #35
                                You hit on the solution in your post. Breed fewer, breed better.
                                This has NOTHING to do with this thread!!!!!

                                These guys dont care if they have slaughtered a $300.00 meat destined horse, a loved family pet or a million dollar show jumper. Its immaterial to them

                                They are taking and slaughtering something that didnt belong to them!!!
                                www.TrueColoursFarm.com
                                www.truecoloursproducts.com

                                True Colours Farm on Facebook

                                Comment


                                • #36
                                  Hey Quinn is my light on??? LOL

                                  BTW I'm not the one who brought slaughter up if its a problem for you maybe talk to the one that did. But nice to see your still whining.
                                  Quality doesn\'t cost it pays.

                                  Comment


                                  • #37
                                    This is about breaking laws, stealing and people that need to be shot or hanged.

                                    The same goes on here and has since people first populated the West, where poachers will shoot a few calves, sometimes a horse, although they like beef better and butcher them in the barditch, taking the meat and leaving the remains.

                                    There are people that will break all kinds of laws and we are sitting ducks for them, if they are a druggie after something to sell for drugs, a thief/poacher or a murderer out for kicks.

                                    Sometimes I think that human societies are like vast herds in the Savannah, where predators circle and intermingle and hit here and there, taking their prey down, the rest of the herd going on with little notice, unless right there, hoping they are not next.

                                    All we can do is to keep fighting against those kinds of predator people, that don't play by the rules of the herd.

                                    Comment


                                    • #38
                                      Originally posted by Lori T View Post
                                      Living in Florida, I resisted posting this last week when the story first broke, because I knew it would turn into a slaughter debate. The fact is, this has nothing to do with whether or not slaughter is legal or not. This has been going on for years, long before slaughter was illegal. It has even happened here in the Orlando area years ago. Without getting flamed, it seems to be primarily hispanics who are doing this, whether it is for a religous beliefs as some think, or a culture thing, I don't know. What is so disturbing to me is that they feel they can just take someone's beloved animal...there are so many freebies on CL and rumors of loose horses in the everglades...why do they have to take what is not theirs? To me that is the bigger issue everyone seems to forget...this is STEALING! This is not a slaughter debate! I feel for the owners and could not imagine finding the remains of one of my horses slaughtered in a field. How horrific for the horse and the owner. I cannot imagine what the horse had to endure in its final moments..to be so trusting to let itself be led away in the middle of the night and then to be tortured like that. The horse that was slaughtered here in Orlando a few years ago was slaughtered alive..
                                      Exactly what I thought. This has nothing to do with the big slaughter debate. These are horses being killed and butchered in peoples back yard!! What the heck is this world coming to? This is horrific and must be terrifying for horse owners in the area. Like having a serial killer wandering the neighborhood and you never know if you will be next. Just awful!!

                                      Comment


                                      • #39
                                        Originally posted by county View Post
                                        The place like in N.J. doesn't process horses or cattle. They buy the bones/meat from slaughter plants and then process that into their products theres places like that around the country.
                                        I am sorry to inform you but the slaughter house in NJ does kill horses and cattle and use their own bones for by products.
                                        I know this for fact, I was there several times investigating and managed to get 10 horses out of there that were to be killed for zoo food. My rescued quarterhorse was the next to be killed.
                                        The place is disgusting, I stood inside the slaughter house after a fresh kill and you could smell death. Mexicans are the slaughterers and the grounds are disgusting to say the least.
                                        Trust me, horse slaughter is cruel, brutal and awful, it needs to end and those standing at these zoo food slaughterhouses are left to die, starved while waiting because the cats like the meat that way and nobody keeps tabs on the conditions of the horses there. Bottom line, out of all slaughter, zoo food slaughter is worse because the horse has no protection whatsoever while he/she waits for slaughter. And, the way they slaughter there at Bravo would give you nightmares. Trust me, I will forever have nightmares from what I had seen.

                                        To answer the question from another poster, there are USDA guidelines but they are not followed, especially killing for zoo food

                                        Comment


                                        • #40
                                          Originally posted by sharonsfun21 View Post
                                          Mexicans are the slaughterers and the grounds are disgusting to say the least.
                                          You have valid points if inhumane, unregulated slaughter of animals is taking place at some "zoo" facilities. However, I fail to see the ethnicity of those doing the slaughtering as relevant. In doing so, you reduce your credibility, in my eyes.

                                          Did you report what you witnessed to any authorities? Was anything done?

                                          Agreed, this is not a slaughter thread. This is something we can ALL agree on needs to be stopped.

                                          Posted by County: People are greedy, selfish, and stupid.
                                          Hey, County -- something we agree upon! .... Although, not ALL people are greedy, selfish, and stupid.... just too many!

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