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Is my TB a 'stock' or 'saddle' horse, for open show purposes?

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  • Is my TB a 'stock' or 'saddle' horse, for open show purposes?

    We are taking the greenies to a small open show next weekend for some exposure, and will more than likely sign up for some halter classes. After looking at the prize listthough I'm a bit confused. She's a mare, so no question there... But when it comes to 'stock horse' vs 'saddle horse', where does a TB fall? It says 'saddle horse, i.e. Arabian, Tennessee Walker, Saddlebred' and 'stock horse, i.e. QH, Paint, Appaloosa'.

    Forgive my ignorance! We will also be doing some walk/trot classes if Her Highness can behave.

  • #2
    Saddle horse.

    Comment


    • #3
      I would say your horse would show under the "saddle horse" division (i.e. ridden English).

      It's very hard these days--back in the Good Old Days you could tell a Quarter Horse at 100 paces! Now, with all the influx of Thoroughbred blood in the "Stock" horses it's awfully hard to differentiate.... I'm sorry, but I liked the Good Old Days....

      It's even getting hard to tell the Walking Horses from the Morgans although the gait is a dead giveaway--they're all getting to look too much like American Saddlebreds to me.... I liked it better when you could tell the breeds apart at a glance.
      "Don't blame Hogg or the other teens. The adults are supposed to know better. If only we could find any." ~Tom Nichols, professor of national security affairs at the Naval War College~

      Comment


      • #4
        Isn't it possible you could show in either stock or saddle horse with a TB, but just not in both divisions at the same show?
        ...somewhere between the talent and the potato....

        Comment


        • #5
          A friend of mine has a Tb that she rides western that I would think would be more at home in a stock class. She's gorgeous, but she's exceptionally broad and stout for a TB.
          But yes, for your average 'english' type TB the saddle class is the way to go.

          Comment


          • #6
            When this question comes up at our club shows that I manage, I tell people that it depends on which training theory you follow -- if your training methods are more QH-ish, then you're better off in the stock type; if your training methods are more traditional hunter/whatever other sport horse, then you're better off in saddle type (we use term "pleasure type" instead).

            Generally speaking, there is so much variation in saddle type breeds that not looking exactly like the others doesn't stand out like a sore thumb. But among stock type breeds, there is very, very, very little variation and any deviation is going to look 'wrong'.

            Most TB's around here tend to go stock type because that kind of training is most likely to end up and saddle-club-type shows. The riders of TB's who should go in the other type are too busy pretending to be "dressage" riders or something...

            We even had a warmblood (or what was supposed to be such) showing in stock type one year. It fit right in with the other second-rate QH's.

            Comment


            • #7
              Throughbreds should be shown as stock horses. Stock is usually short for stock/hunter type.

              Saddle horses are Saddlebreds, Morgans, Arabians, Tennessee Walking Horses, etc. Saddle is usually short for saddle/pleasure type.

              Stock type classes will have horses with lower head sets and that are flat movers. Saddle type classes will have horses with higher head sets and that have higher knee action.

              So assuming your Thoroughbred goes with a head set that is on the lowish side like a hunter and is a flat moving hunter type, definatly, definatly stock type.

              Most always these types of shows that divide this way offer the same set of classes, english and western, for both types, but make the division to simplify judging. A Quarter Horse western pleasure horse carries itself and moves very differently than a Morgan western pleasure horse. An Appaloosa hunter pleasure or hunter under saddle horse carries itself and moves quite differently than an Arabian hunter. And if the class is just called "English Pleasure" saddle type English pleasure may very well have saddle seat horses in it.

              Comment


              • #8
                Which group will be more suited to a TB that is green? I know mine could not go as slow as a western pleasure horse and would be constantly having got pass, but that would still be better then going into a class of really flashy speedy horses doing odd gaits. That would have really freaked him out Just seeing Pso Finos freaked him out.

                I think I would have felt safer among the stock horses. They would have felt safer with me in the other section.

                Comment


                • #9
                  If those are your only 2 choices I would go with saddle though to me "saddle" to me implies more "saddle seat" like the Saddlebreds. Is there a "hunter" as well? Most shows I have seen that have those 2 also have a hunter group. I suppose in the end it depends on what kind of a mover your TB IS>....
                  Providence Farm
                  http://providencefarmpintos.blogspot.com/

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                  • #10
                    nope, saddle to me equals gaited. For a TB then, choose stock.

                    ask when you register, but here 'saddle gait=gaited'

                    Comment


                    • #11
                      In California, it would be all QH, Appy, Paint types are stock. More refined and hot blooded types are saddle. Doesn't matter whether it is English or Western as there will be Stock English as well as Saddle Western classes.

                      Comment


                      • #12
                        When I took my warmblood to an open show to do some halter classes for exposure, I was told to put him in stock halter (versus pleasure halter). It seemed odd when they told me, but when I saw the types of horses in each division it actually made sense. The pleasure halter class was arabians, saddlebreds, etc (what you would consider your "flashier" or "saddleseat" type horses). Pretty much everyone else was in the stock halter class (which were also the larger classes as well). I do have to say, it was pretty comical being the only 17.3 hand horse in there when the average size QH/Paint/etc was maybe 16 hands!!! Good luck and have fun!
                        RIP Disco (6/8/2000 - 4/1/2008)

                        Comment

                        • Original Poster

                          #13
                          Thanks for all the input so far. I should clarify that I'm asking this question in relation to halted classes, not under saddle classes - they do have some English walk/trot stuff that we might enter if she's behaving later in the day.

                          The halter classes are: mares, geldings, stock type, and saddle type. She's a mare, so that one is easy... But if I want to do more than one, I have to choose whether she's stock or saddle. The breeds they listed for saddle type all seem to be breeds that park out - which is further confusing me! This is a very small, very schooling-type show, so I doubt it will matter much. I could probably take her in the stock type and try to pass her off as an Appendix.

                          She is very huntery, and very classically TB looking. She'll stand out, I'm sure - but this is purely for exposure, it's her first show and she can have quite the 'I'm a 4yo TB mare' attitude when she wants to.

                          Comment


                          • #14
                            For halter definatly stock type, IMO. Yes, many appendix Quarter Horses are nearly Thoroughbreds. The only thing would be to double check that in the stock type halter that you can show in hunter appointments or if you need to use a western show halter. Sometimes one other differance in halter is that in stock type hlater you may not use whips and in saddle type halter you may. All in all it can never hurt to just give the show manager a ring about things you are unsure on

                            Comment


                            • #15
                              Stock type halter will be expected to set up perfectly "square" -- a front and/or hind leg offset like a sport horse is practically the kiss of death.

                              Around here, "stock" type really is stock type -- QH, Paint, App ONLY; "bridlepath"/"pleasure" is everything else -- pleasure (Arab, Morgan), hunter (TB, WB), saddle (Saddlebred, gaited whatever).

                              Comment


                              • #16
                                Originally posted by Renae View Post
                                Throughbreds should be shown as stock horses. Stock is usually short for stock/hunter type.

                                Saddle horses are Saddlebreds, Morgans, Arabians, Tennessee Walking Horses, etc. Saddle is usually short for saddle/pleasure type.

                                Stock type classes will have horses with lower head sets and that are flat movers. Saddle type classes will have horses with higher head sets and that have higher knee action.

                                So assuming your Thoroughbred goes with a head set that is on the lowish side like a hunter and is a flat moving hunter type, definatly, definatly stock type.

                                Most always these types of shows that divide this way offer the same set of classes, english and western, for both types, but make the division to simplify judging. A Quarter Horse western pleasure horse carries itself and moves very differently than a Morgan western pleasure horse. An Appaloosa hunter pleasure or hunter under saddle horse carries itself and moves quite differently than an Arabian hunter. And if the class is just called "English Pleasure" saddle type English pleasure may very well have saddle seat horses in it.
                                Agreed....I also think of saddle horses as park horses. Think way back when, the gentry used park horses because of their smooth gaits or that they were gaited. A thoroughbred is not a gaited horse or park type horse and there for belongs with stock horses.

                                Comment

                                • Original Poster

                                  #17
                                  Thanks for all the help!

                                  We've been working on trotting in hand and squaring up her legs - or rather, me moving them to the correct spot and her leaving them there. That is an acceptable way to stand her up square, right? I don't know if I could teach her to do it on command like they do in Showmanship! From what I understand they will just be requiring us to trot in, line up, and set up. Nothing fancy or technical, no triangle.

                                  Again, this is just for some exposure. She's destined to be an eventer or a hunter!

                                  Comment


                                  • #18
                                    Originally posted by bearcombs View Post
                                    Thanks for all the help!

                                    We've been working on trotting in hand and squaring up her legs - or rather, me moving them to the correct spot and her leaving them there. That is an acceptable way to stand her up square, right? I don't know if I could teach her to do it on command like they do in Showmanship! From what I understand they will just be requiring us to trot in, line up, and set up. Nothing fancy or technical, no triangle.

                                    Again, this is just for some exposure. She's destined to be an eventer or a hunter!
                                    Yes, perfectly acceptable for halter classes, big no-no in showmanship! You could teach her to square up like we do in showmanship, takes a lot of work, but could be done! You'll likely be required to walk in, walk straight to the judge (aim your horse at the judge, don't worry they get out of the way) and trot past and around into a line, head to tail. Just make sure to leave at least a couple of horse lengths between you and the horse in front of you. It's amazing how small that space can seem to get if your horse gets wiggly in the class...ask me how I know!

                                    If you can get somebody to help you at home, have them play judge, so your mare can get used to it, including the standing for inspection. My mare doesn't care about anybody walking around her normally, but for some reason turns into a wiggler as soon as a judge walks around her for inspection. Rather annoying really, because you'd think she was set in concrete at home. Have fun!
                                    ~~Some days are a total waste of makeup.~~

                                    Comment


                                    • #19
                                      At halter classes in small schooling shows the judges are looking at each horse as an inividual, and comparing it to it's own breed standard. I would put your mare in the stock class. At our local schooling shows they list the classes for stock/hunters and saddle/gaited horses.... I have shown my WB with the stock classes, and been told that just because he is showing in a class with QH's they do not expect him to behave like one- he is a WB, and they expect bigger strides on the trot, a different stance, showing in the bridle vs a halter etc... and remember in halter classes they are judging the horse- not you. Another thing about stock vs saddle- if your horse is green and new to the show ring, you may not want her in a class where they are waving whips up high in front of their horses to get them to set up and park out.... Even if you are in the wrong class with her, she will still be getting a good experience.

                                      Comment


                                      • #20
                                        Originally posted by Renae View Post
                                        Throughbreds should be shown as stock horses. Stock is usually short for stock/hunter type.
                                        At our open shows, one would never ride in an english saddle in a "stock" type class. Around here, "stock" classes are western classes. "Saddle Type" classes are english classes. I would never show my TB in a stock class, even though she does have a fairly low head set simply because I don't show her western.

                                        Stock = Western
                                        Saddle Type = English

                                        Usually, most open shows in my area also have a hunter or sport horse division. You'll get both stock type horses (QH, Appys, etc. under english tack) as well as Arabs and ASBs in these classes. This is also where the few WBs or TBs at open shows will be.

                                        There can also be a tremendous amount of breed bias at these open shows depending upon what "world" the judge is from (i.e. a QH judge or an ASB judge). But if you're just going to get your green beans some experience and it doesn't really matter to you how or if they place, then it should be a good time.

                                        Have fun with them. I showed open shows for the first couple season I had my OTTB and it was a great experience for her.
                                        www.LatkaPhoto.com

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