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Finding out an AQHA sire's HYPP status

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  • Finding out an AQHA sire's HYPP status

    I'm helping my sister horse shop for her daughter, and she is interested in a QH by Impressed Sport. The horse (to the seller's knowledge) has not been tested for HYPP. I thought if I could dig up whether the sire was N/N then she wouldn't have to have the test done (the dam does not have Impressive in her pedigree). Does anyone know any way to do this? Thanks!

  • #2
    Originally posted by kcmel View Post
    I'm helping my sister horse shop for her daughter, and she is interested in a QH by Impressed Sport. The horse (to the seller's knowledge) has not been tested for HYPP. I thought if I could dig up whether the sire was N/N then she wouldn't have to have the test done (the dam does not have Impressive in her pedigree). Does anyone know any way to do this? Thanks!
    Contact AQHA....I don't remember what year they started but they are keeping recordings of HYPP results on sires. So the sire may be recorded. If not they can tell you aboutthe test kit which is not that much $$$
    Adriane
    Happily retired but used to be:
    www.ParrotNutz.com

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    • #3
      Originally posted by kcmel View Post
      I'm helping my sister horse shop for her daughter, and she is interested in a QH by Impressed Sport. The horse (to the seller's knowledge) has not been tested for HYPP. I thought if I could dig up whether the sire was N/N then she wouldn't have to have the test done (the dam does not have Impressive in her pedigree). Does anyone know any way to do this? Thanks!
      I would not, under any circumstances, buy an Impressive bred horse that is not guaranteed N/N and that should be stated in the registration papers, or that the horse comes from parents that are Impressive bred and NOT tested.

      Ask for a copy of the registration papers on the horse you are looking at and it should say right there if he was tested or needs to be.
      That is assuming you are talking about an AQHA horse.

      I think that the Impressive Sport horse you are asking about may be a paint, not an AQHA horse, so you have to ask the seller to have the horse you intend to buy tested, if they want to get him sold and are honest.
      I don't think APHA is requiring testing.

      Comment

      • Original Poster

        #4
        Thanks Bluey. There is a paint sire by the same name, but this is the QH. The sellers gave my sister a copy of the papers which say something to the effect that he has lineage with the hypp gene, and should be tested. If this is on his papers does it mean his sire had the gene? Or does it just mean that his is of Impressive lineage?

        Comment


        • #5
          It only means that he has Impressive lineage. It doesn't guarantee one way or another that his sire/dam did or did not have it. My gelding has that on his papers and his dam didn't have Impressive in her pedigree but the sire did. His sire was tested N/N so I knew my guy was N/N. Had him tested anyway. They sent me a little sticker saying he was N/N to put on his papers. Get the owners (or you could offer to pay for it although I think it's the owner's responsibility) to get this horse tested. It's $40 for AQHA members (I think it's $50 for nonmembers....someone correct me if I'm wrong) so it's not a huge chunk of change for peace of mind, IMHO.

          Bones

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          • #6
            If the only Impressive in that horse's pedigree comes thru Impressed Sport, he is listed as N/N, so you don't have to test for HyPP:

            HORSE OWNERSHIP SUMMARY
            REG. NO. HORSE'S NAME COLOR SEX DATE FOAL ST
            2440970 IMPRESSED SPORT BAY STALLION 02/01/1986 AL

            Additional Horse Information for IMPRESSED SPORT:
            Genetic Typed
            HYPP Results:N/N

            I don't know why the registration papers of that horse you are looking at indicates that he needs to be tested?
            That doesn't make sense, unless the stallion was tested AFTER that foal of his was registered.

            I would call the AQHA to confirm it, but I don't think you need to worry about that:

            AQHA 1-806-376-4811

            Comment


            • #7
              I've been out of the AQHA for a long time but I thought I heard somewhere that if you had an Impressive bred, you had to have it tested or the AQHA pulled the papers. Is that true?
              Surgeon General warns: "drinking every time Trump lies during the debate could result in acute alcohol poisoning."

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              • #8
                Originally posted by Go Fish View Post
                I've been out of the AQHA for a long time but I thought I heard somewhere that if you had an Impressive bred, you had to have it tested or the AQHA pulled the papers. Is that true?
                Not that I have heard.
                Impressive bred horses today have an annotation in their papers as tested and what the results are, or that the parents with Impressive were tested and what those results are, if H/H, the offspring can't be registered without testing, if N/H the offspring will have that noted on the papers and that please test them, or if N/N that they don't need to be tested, or that they were not tested and that the horse needs to be tested to know what the HyPP status of that horse may be.

                Clear as mud?

                There is talk that by 2010 or 2012, any not N/N won't be elegible for registration, but I don't know that the legal department is on board with that one yet, so we will have to see.

                Registries can't add rules willy-nilly, no matter how sensible, without going thru the process for that written into their by-laws.

                The AQHA fought some seriously costly lawsuits over how much white to permit for registration and several others, some they won, some they lost and are gun shy now about passing regulations that some may object to.

                The truth is that if you have two registered parents, it is hard to explain to a judge and jury that an association decided now not to give the owner of any offspring from those duly registered parents a clear certificate, for any one odd rule they may decide to change.
                Something about who's rights are more important, more than what makes sense.

                Comment

                • Original Poster

                  #9
                  Bluey, thanks for the info!

                  Comment


                  • #10
                    Originally posted by kcmel View Post
                    Bluey, thanks for the info!
                    You are welcome.

                    If you get the horse, how about some pictures?

                    Comment


                    • #11
                      The AQHA has already made the rules H/H horses can no longer be reg. N/H horses no longer will be I beleive in 2012. The AQHA had no law suits about the amount of white in fact they only had one law suit that was for allowing ET foals to be reg. or not which they lost.
                      Quality doesn\'t cost it pays.

                      Comment


                      • #12
                        The White Rule
                        by: Richard Chamberlain
                        June 01 2004, Article # 2643
                        Print Email NEW! Add to Favorites ShareThis
                        Back in 1940, life in the United States was simple, despite a world at war and a complex future right at the nation's doorstep. That March during the Fort Worth stock show and rodeo, a group of prominent ranchers and horse breeders from across the West gathered in the home of Jim and Anne Hall, masters of West Texas' famed Burnett and Four Sixes ranches, to further a common interest--establishing a studbook and registry for America's oldest breed of horse.

                        Bred since the late 1600s, when Virginia and Carolina horsemen referred to them as Celebrated American Quarter of a Mile Running Horses, American Quarter Horses by the 20th Century had characteristics that set them apart from other breeds--extreme speed, innate cow sense, an intelligent and willing disposition, symmetrical conformation, heavy muscling, bulging jaws, and little fox ears. The founders of the American Quarter Horse Association sought to preserve those and other characteristics.

                        Integral to the rules of registration was color; acceptable was pretty much any hue as long as it was solid over the body--white markings would be permitted only on the face and lower legs. Though the issue was (and would remain) very contentious, what finally was agreed upon in 1940 was simple: "All colors are acceptable," said the AQHA bylaw, "except those commonly designated as spotted, Pinto, Appaloosa, and albino."

                        There were two sides to what became known as the "white rule." Bob Kleberg developed the famous King Ranch line of sorrel Quarter Horses with no white, because white leg markings often became sand-burned in the South Texas heat. On the other hand, nice horses with too much white--such as Lucky Boots and Hobo, both 1940 sons of the famous Joe Moore--were excluded.

                        "One of the great problems we had when we originally organized was due to color," recalled Bob Denhardt, a Texas A&M University professor who organized the founding of AQHA and was the association's first executive secretary. "Jim Minnick, Jim Hall, Jack Hutchins, Lee Underwood, and I, when we were drawing up the constitution and bylaws, decided that a lot of the trash horses on many of the ranches had a lot of color...and there were a lot of crooked legs and bad heads and so forth.

                        "Now with the Thoroughbred, a horse which we all admired, you didn't see any paints. So we agreed when the original organization was formed to have only straight-colored horses. Later on, we had a lot of trouble with this, because some of our major lines--horses that went back to [foundation sires] Traveler and Old Fred, for example--had paint blood in them and once in a while it would crop out."

                        Over the decades, AQHA refined the white rule (Rule 227c), redrawing lines and expanding limits while trying to remain true to principle. But AQHA found itself in court over the matter, defending a lawsuit over a colt by racing champion Mr Jet Moore, which in 1977 at the appellate level was decided in AQHA's favor.

                        Despite that horses with white over the limits could not be registered (and AQHA membership surveys consistently supported the stance), many horsemen insisted on breeding in as much white as possible. In the 1970s and '80s, stallion ads shouted "chrome"--white, lots of white, everywhere it was permitted. Mares with blazed faces and white stockings on all four legs were covered by bald-faced studs with white to all four knees. Was anyone surprised at what happened?

                        Many finely pedigreed animals entered the world as grade horses. Many of those so-called "crop-outs" nonetheless received papers through groups such as the American Paint Horse Association (APHA). For that matter, APHA and registries such as the Appaloosa Horse Club record Quarter Horse crosses, just as the offspring of an American Quarter Horse and a Thoroughbred can be registered with AQHA.

                        Which leads to Paint and Appaloosa crop-outs, and the inevitable questions: Is an Appaloosa with no spots on its body or stripes on its hooves really an Appaloosa? Can a solid-colored horse really be a Paint?

                        Well, yes. Parentage verification via DNA testing rendered the subject moot. Genetically speaking, a Quarter Horse bred to a Quarter Horse is a Quarter Horse, period. So much for the white rule, which was largely eliminated by a vote of the AQHA Board of Directors at the Reno convention in March. The board added the following as rule 205(d): "Breeders should be aware that the American Quarter Horse, while long recognized, identified and promoted as a solid-colored horse, can and does occasionally produce offspring with overo paint characteristics. Such markings are uncharacteristic of the breed and are considered to be undesirable traits."

                        Quarter Horse people--old-time and new-wave alike--can relax. AQHA has removed its rule. But it hasn't forgotten its roots.

                        Comment


                        • #13
                          The white rule I'm talking about is the new one saying a QH can be 100% white and still get AQHA papers. The new one saying a QH x QH is a QH not a paint. The old rules were changed periodically but still had restrictions now the AQHA is a breed rather then a color asso.
                          Quality doesn\'t cost it pays.

                          Comment


                          • #14
                            Originally posted by county View Post
                            The AQHA has already made the rules H/H horses can no longer be reg. N/H horses no longer will be I beleive in 2012. The AQHA had no law suits about the amount of white in fact they only had one law suit that was for allowing ET foals to be reg. or not which they lost.
                            Actually I know of one case where somebody went against AQHA's white rule and won, but the mare in this case didn't have white skin under the white hair that trailed up her legs in front of her hocks. It was a few years back now (over 20!). I only know about it because the mare was shown in this area for a few years.

                            To clarify, the ET registration law suit was about multiple ET foals out of one mare being registered in the same year, not just ET foals in general. At the time AQHA did allow ET, but only one foal per mare per year. If I remember correctly, AQHA left themselves open to that one because they had registered two ET foals out of one mare one year. I believe it was totally by accident or before the one foal per mare rule being added to the rule book, but the folks wanting to register more than one foal per year out of one dam used that as their precedent.
                            ~~Some days are a total waste of makeup.~~

                            Comment


                            • #15
                              Originally posted by county View Post
                              The white rule I'm talking about is the new one saying a QH can be 100% white and still get AQHA papers. The new one saying a QH x QH is a QH not a paint. The old rules were changed periodically but still had restrictions now the AQHA is a breed rather then a color asso.
                              One of the reasons for the change may be because of the great horses that got caught up in the rule like Trashadeous. His dam was named Miss White Trash as a joke just because the AQHA wouldn't register her. Both she and her son are Hall of Fame reiners.

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