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Paying to ride other people's horses- always end up a nightmare situation?!

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  • #21
    I am not a legal eagle, so no advice there. But I am simply appalled at someone who would take advantage that way. So sorry.
    www.specialhorses.org
    a 501(c)3 organization helping 501(c)3 equine rescues

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    • #22
      Assuming the amount you supposedly owe her is less than the amount you can sue for in Small Claims court (in NH it's $5k), that might be her only recourse against you, and if she does decide to go that route, you can always file a counter claim for services rendered. I think she's a greedy beeyotch to decide that you need to PAY for the horses you're riding and mucking, when you're doing her a favor.

      I ran into that a couple of times, someone was going away for the winter and wanted someone to 'take care of' her horse, but she expected them to pay full board, and the horse was an unschooled trail horse so anyone who rode it inside would end up doing a lot of schooling. Someone would pay for her horse's upkeep, train it all winter and she'd come home to a much better horse, for nothing. Don't think so....

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      • #23
        I don't think there is anything to jest about on the idea of coming up with an itemized bill of everything you did that is NOT in that contract. I think it's brilliant.

        Cleaned her tack after every ride even if it wasn't a duty outlined in the contract as yours? $2.00 a day. Buy your own fly spray/thrush treatment/cut ointment? Cha-ching. Pass that cost on. Cared for a few wounds or wrapped up some legs? $2.00 day.....

        It wont get you into any trouble. It may make her more angry than she already is (pppffffft...who cares) but it will also give her something to think about and let her know she can't bully you into paying something you shouldn't owe and you won't go down without a fight.

        Hope you are on the mend. And sorry you had such a rotten experience with this lady. I'm sure those horses will miss you.
        "Aye God, Woodrow..."

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        • #24
          I'm having a bit of difficulty with the attitude here, and wondering what I'm missing. She signed a contract to lease a horse, so is obligated to pay.

          It is a bill she was obligated to pay just like her credit card bills or electric bill.

          Now, while it would have been nice for the owner to waive the 30 day notice clause, I'm not quite sure I see why she is guilty of taking advantage of the OP. She had the OP riding her horses. Then she decided to lease them out, and offered them to the OP (with the alternative being that they would be leased to someone else and OP could no longer ride them). I don't know anybody who leases horses and uses people's tack that isn't expected to pitch in a bit.

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          • #25
            How much money is she claiming you owe her?

            Is the dept still accruing (as she sees it); or are you now free from the obligation (as she sees it)?

            I'm guessing we're talking about a relatively small amount of money here. Surely not enough for either of you to consult an attorney over. Am I right?

            Sad situation.
            I have a Fjord! Life With Oden

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            • #26
              Ambrey -- I'm a bit confused by the "attitude" expressed by some, too!

              You agreed to a contract without taking the time to make sure you really do agree with it and then get mad when the contract is being followed? I can understand why others feel that the leasor could have waived the 30 days but that would be going above and beyond what's expected: she is neither right or wrong is she does not waive it.

              Long Spot -- Can someone really charge for the items/activities you described if no one asked them to perform the duties or buy the items? If I'm riding a friend's horse and have access to that horse's brushes/fly spray/etc., how can I ask them to pay me if I choose not to use their items and want to buy my own? With cleaning tack: if you use mine and clean it without me asking you to then turn around and charge me for cleaning (that we never agreed on), aren't you pretty saying it be fair if I asked you to pay for using my items (even though we never agreed that you'd pay before)? Wouldn't fees like this need to be laid out before the duties (or whatever) were done?
              ***Honorary Member of the "What is BOSS?" Cult...er...CLIQUE***
              ***Prominent Member of the 'Irrelevent Posters Clique'***
              CrayolaPosse ~ Bluegreen

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              • #27
                Sorry you got a rotten apple owner - she sounds like a piece of work.

                How about some Krazy Half-Boarder stories:

                #1 was a novice rider who just happened to be my trainer's sister.
                At first she just wanted to improve her riding, but then she decided she'd like to show. Fine with me, she isn't doing my horse any harm - if not a lot of good either... At least she rides in a lesson weekly (my terms for leasees with not a lot of riding experience) with the other trainer at the barn.
                Winter show season approaches and she comes to me offering to pay half of... Silly me, I expected it to be the body clip he needed to do the indoor shows coming up.
                Nope - she wants to have his hocks injected.
                Where IS that Fruitbat?
                Horse was showing no lameness - he was 8yo at the time & jumping 3' (with me) only on the rare occasion!
                My vet looked at me like I'd grown a 3rd eye when I asked his opinion.

                #2 - nice older lady Absolute Ground Zero Rider. Her cousin was leasing a horse to my husband at the time, so I said we'd give it a try.
                Same deal - weekly lesson mandatory. I always give shareboarders a free first month so I can see how well we get along (them, horse & me).
                In that first month she managed to break her wrist leaning down to close a gate while mounted, then break a rib dismounting.
                I told her maybe this was not the horse for her...

                #3 - Overachiever of the Year - practicing attorney taking courses to get an MD. Rode once or twice a week. Left sweatmarks on horse, never cleaned tack and every time I rode after she did horse told me we no longer turn right. After 3 months of spending my riding time reinstalling the right turn I said perhaps we should rethink the deal...

                Feel better?
                I agree with everyone here who said you don't owe this person a cent.
                Contract be damned.
                *friend of bar.ka*RIP all my lovely boys, gone too soon:
                Steppin' Out 1988-2004
                Hey Vern! 1982-2009, Cash's Bay Threat 1994-2009
                Sam(Jaybee Altair) 1994-2015

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                • #28
                  Originally posted by mcm7780 View Post
                  Ambrey -- I'm a bit confused by the "attitude" expressed by some, too! You agreed to a contract without taking the time to make sure you really do agree with it and then get mad when the contract is being followed? I can understand why others feel that the leasor could have waived the 30 days but that would be going above and beyond what's expected: she is neither right or wrong is she does not waive it.
                  I imagine I won't convince you otherwise, but I have to disagree. The owner's actions may or may not be legally defensible, but they're morally questionable at best. She has taken full advantage of a quasi-friendly relationship with the OP in the past, but now that the OP is unable to be of use to her - broke and too hurt to work on her horses - she's chosen to attempt to force the relationship back into a strictly professional basis where the letter and not the spirit of the contract will be upheld and I'd like that check in 30 days, please.

                  As to the legality - to me, the fact that there's a whole branch of law devoted to contracts suggests that the subject is more complicated than "you signed it, you fulfill it.'

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                  • #29
                    Originally posted by vacation1 View Post
                    I imagine I won't convince you otherwise, but I have to disagree. The owner's actions may or may not be legally defensible, but they're morally questionable at best. She has taken full advantage of a quasi-friendly relationship with the OP in the past, but now that the OP is unable to be of use to her - broke and too hurt to work on her horses - she's chosen to attempt to force the relationship back into a strictly professional basis where the letter and not the spirit of the contract will be upheld and I'd like that check in 30 days, please.
                    How? By offering a lease on her horse?

                    That's the part I don't get, where offering to lease OP the horses was taking advantage. The OP worded it in such a way as to garner sympathy (of course, not an attack on the OP as she's feeling taken advantage of and that's her view of it) but from the other side the lady needed money and needed to lease out her horses. I just don't see how that was taking advantage.

                    The OP had every opportunity to just say no.

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                    • #30
                      I am inclined to be sympathetic to the OP because I have been in situations similar to this in the past. What stands out as shady on the part of the barn owner is that when the OP told her she wasn't going to be able to pay because she lost her job the BO didn't immediately remind her of the contract and any required notice period (at least based on the OP). That would have been the appropriate way to handle it in my opinion, not waiting a few weeks and then asking for the money.
                      www.rockhillfarm.net

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                      • #31
                        Originally posted by Nin View Post
                        How much money is she claiming you owe her?

                        Is the dept still accruing (as she sees it); or are you now free from the obligation (as she sees it)?

                        I'm guessing we're talking about a relatively small amount of money here. Surely not enough for either of you to consult an attorney over. Am I right?

                        Sad situation.
                        If this is correct, I would just ignore her. But in case she does decide to be a PITA and pursue things I would take the time to do as others suggested and write down everything you ever did that was out of the kindness of your heart so you have a record.

                        She could be looking for some drama or control (what? crazy controlling horse people??) so just ignore her. She'll realize soon enough that she has burned this bridge right to the ground.

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                        • #32
                          Originally posted by Ambrey View Post
                          I'm having a bit of difficulty with the attitude here, and wondering what I'm missing. She signed a contract to lease a horse, so is obligated to pay.

                          It is a bill she was obligated to pay just like her credit card bills or electric bill.

                          Now, while it would have been nice for the owner to waive the 30 day notice clause, I'm not quite sure I see why she is guilty of taking advantage of the OP. She had the OP riding her horses. Then she decided to lease them out, and offered them to the OP (with the alternative being that they would be leased to someone else and OP could no longer ride them). I don't know anybody who leases horses and uses people's tack that isn't expected to pitch in a bit.
                          I think the OP should have put the brakes on the minute she was asked to start 'pitching in' and paying, that's not what the original arrangement was. She answered the ad because the woman needed help, the OP did more than was asked of her because it was the right thing to do for the horses, cleaning tack etc. was not part of the deal but she did it anyway. Then the owner decides the OP should PAY for the privilege of mucking, riding and cleaning up after her horses? Why? Was she not getting exactly what she asked for in someone to help her out timewise, or did she just see a sucker and decided to be an opportunist? That seriously grates, and that negates the whole arrangement that the OP signed up for. Signing a contract with this owner was a big mistake, IMO.

                          Like others I have a moral issue with someone who has taken advantage of a well-meaning, responsible person who answered an ad to help her out and did exactly that and more. Most of us, if we were looking for someone to lighten the load, would kill for a responsible horseman to just BE THERE and ride the horses, responsibly, and bring them on. How hard is it to find good help? She should have thanked her lucky stars that it had worked out so well, it's not like the OP just showed up to ride and went home, there was a lot of sweat involved with her commitment. When the chips are down she thinks that's an appropriate time to screw the OP for her 'obligations', despite the fact that there is no blood left in the stone? WTF kind of a person does that?

                          Comment


                          • #33
                            Originally posted by AiryFairy View Post
                            I think the OP should have put the brakes on the minute she was asked to start 'pitching in' and paying, that's not what the original arrangement was. She answered the ad because the woman needed help, the OP did more than was asked of her because it was the right thing to do for the horses, cleaning tack etc. was not part of the deal but she did it anyway. Then the owner decides the OP should PAY for the privilege of mucking, riding and cleaning up after her horses? Why? Was she not getting exactly what she asked for in someone to help her out timewise, or did she just see a sucker and decided to be an opportunist? That seriously grates, and that negates the whole arrangement that the OP signed up for. Signing a contract with this owner was a big mistake, IMO.
                            It might sound like that, but to me it sounds like the owner ran into financial troubles of her own and decided she needed to lease the horses out. Maybe because there are SO many people I know in that situation right now.

                            If you start to look at it from the other direction, and think of the owner being unable to afford the horses without the lease $$, and just having to think about how to get the board bills paid, it doesn't sound nearly as nefarious.

                            Although I agree completely that the ending was handled badly, and that there could be a whole lot more compassion for the OP (if it had been me, I'd have certainly figured something out that didn't include bugging her for money after a car accident), the initial decision to make it a lease rather than a free ride doesn't sound at all nefarious to me.

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                            • #34
                              Originally posted by AiryFairy View Post
                              I think the OP should have put the brakes on the minute she was asked to start 'pitching in' and paying, that's not what the original arrangement was. She answered the ad because the woman needed help, the OP did more than was asked of her because it was the right thing to do for the horses, cleaning tack etc. was not part of the deal but she did it anyway. Then the owner decides the OP should PAY for the privilege of mucking, riding and cleaning up after her horses? Why? Was she not getting exactly what she asked for in someone to help her out timewise, or did she just see a sucker and decided to be an opportunist? That seriously grates, and that negates the whole arrangement that the OP signed up for. Signing a contract with this owner was a big mistake, IMO.
                              Totally agree. If the original agreement was to ride the horse for someone why did it become a lease? If you work as an exercise rider at the track you don't pay the owner to have the privilege of riding their horse.. they're paying you for the service you're providing.

                              A lease to me implies that you have partial if not full control of the horse. You make decisions about its care and its training etc. The horses still lived at her house, she still made decisions about their future and health, you were just an exercise rider.

                              I don't understand why you would have signed a contract agreeing to pay for anything else. If you work as a waitress you don't pay for the restaurant's food

                              Comment


                              • #35
                                Originally posted by Crooked Horse View Post
                                The reality is though, that it would not be worth her trouble to pursue this.

                                My leasee's dad did not pay last month, and did not give 30 days even though we have a perfectly binding signed contract. I REALLY need that lease money but you can't squeeze blood from a turnip, you really can't.

                                So what can I do? Nothing.


                                The owner sounds like a horse's @ss to me. Jingles to the OP.
                                Exactly. I have a 30 days notice clause in my studio. Some people are nice and uphold their end of the bargain, others don't. There's not much that I can do about it...and they know it.

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                                • #36
                                  Originally posted by 2LaZ2race View Post
                                  A lease to me implies that you have partial if not full control of the horse. You make decisions about its care and its training etc. The horses still lived at her house, she still made decisions about their future and health, you were just an exercise rider.
                                  No, a partial lease doesn't usually involve any of that. The only difference is that you're paying for a RIGHT to ride the horse.

                                  And most partial lease agreements that I've seen (and the one that was signed by my part leaser) involve some level of care for horse and tack.

                                  Comment


                                  • #37
                                    Thats awful! You were "helping" her to exercise horses and then were paying her to ride them, and now, when you are down and out, she is charging you? Geez.

                                    I wish you lived closer to me, I would love someone who likes horses to come and ride, and I don't charge them and no barn chores whatsoever are required. I can't believe you were paying to exercise her horses. That is different than your standard lease situation, shame on her for gettin greedy.
                                    www.lazydacres.com

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                                    • #38
                                      Plus she has cute ponies

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                                      • #39
                                        There is a difference to me between "leasing" a broke horse that I can be competitive on and "exercising" a remedial horse that has issues which I am schooling. If I got special things for the remedial horse then I would pay for those things, like tack or supplements because they are outside what the horse woudl need if I was not there.

                                        As far as doing extra things to be helpful some people just don't give a crap. Just because you like a barn neat and tack clean doesn't mean that the owner notices when they filthy. You walk a really fine line between being appreciated and being ignored or snubbed. If you said "well I cleaned your tack everyday" the owner would respond with "oh yeah well I don't care if it's dirty or not, never asked you to, and besides I provided you with a horse so I was doing you the favor."

                                        I think the lease ending is a moral issue that some people seem to be ignoring. The OP was injured, if the owner was actually a decent human she would have ended the lease there or continued it when the OP was back. Instead she wants to get what she thinks she deserves (money or labor, neither appreciated).
                                        http://weanieeventer.blogspot.com/

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                                        • #40
                                          Originally posted by vacation1 View Post
                                          The owner's actions may or may not be legally defensible, but they're morally questionable at best.
                                          I do agree with you there and I think the only way we can describe it now is "questionable" since we don't have the whole story. She may have leased out the horses since she lost her job/got hurt/whatever and needed help with bills in order to pay for their care. But morally correct and legally correct are two entirely different things. From your post, you agree with me on that point. As for changing the terms of the relationship from friends to professional, that's why they say not to mix friends and money! I think we all eventually learn that lesson the hard way.
                                          ***Honorary Member of the "What is BOSS?" Cult...er...CLIQUE***
                                          ***Prominent Member of the 'Irrelevent Posters Clique'***
                                          CrayolaPosse ~ Bluegreen

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