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  • #61
    <BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by lisamarie8:
    I'm just saying that if y'all think that there aren't PLENTY of 17 year olds out there drinking then you haven't been 17 for a VERY long time.


    HA HA HA You got me there. No, I haven't been 17 for a VERY VERY long time. But I do remember it quite clearly.

    I guess I'm the only person here who had an abnormal teenage-hood. Oh my God, what was I thinking when I was 17? I didn't drink! I didn't do drugs! I didn't want anything to do with anyone who was drinking or doping! Yes, you can "just say no" and yes, you can turn your back on those who are trying to draw you into behaviors that are not right for you. Even at the innocent age of 17.

    Age is not an excuse for irresponsible behavior that puts others in danger.
    "My friends, love is better than anger. Hope is better than fear. Optimism is better than despair. So let us be loving, hopeful and optimistic. And we'll change the world." ~ Jack Layton


    • #62
      <BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by hitchinmygetalong:

      I guess I'm the only person here who had an abnormal teenage-hood. Oh my God, what was I thinking when I was 17? I didn't drink! I didn't do drugs! I didn't want anything to do with anyone who was drinking or doping! Yes, you can "just say no" and yes, you can turn your back on those who are trying to draw you into behaviors that are not right for you. Even at the innocent age of 17.<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

      Oh, don't get me wrong. There are LOTS of kids out there NOT drinking, or not drinking irresponsibly. I was friends with a lot of them...I was also friends with alot of people who did drink and do drugs. I was strong enough to make my own decisions regardless of my surroundings. I think it's stereotypical to think all teenagers are sheep. If you've been raised well and been taught to respect your OWN judgement you'll be WAY ahead of a lot of your friends [img]/infopop/emoticons/icon_wink.gif[/img] We're actually in agreement. We're just agreeing from opposite sides of the fence [img]/infopop/emoticons/icon_wink.gif[/img]

      <BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by hitchinmygetalong:
      Age is not an excuse for irresponsible behavior that puts others in danger.<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

      I never said it was. As a matter of fact that something we are in TOTAL agreement on. [img]/infopop/emoticons/icon_biggrin.gif[/img] It certainly is NOT an excuse...but it CAN be an explanation [img]/infopop/emoticons/icon_wink.gif[/img]

      -- Human beings, who are almost unique in having the ability to learn from the experience of others, are also remarkable for their apparent disinclination to do so.
      Life Goes On


      • #63
        Sometime I think American teenagers just don't know how to handle alcohol. It seems in Europe they have less of a problem with drunk drivers. (I'm probably wrong, so someone correct me) This may be due to the fact that the there is a "zero tolerance" policy or maybe it is because alcohol is a part of everyones life? I feel that if teenagers and children were exposed to it by their parents and at home from a young age, maybe it wouldn't be such a of big deal. Maybe. I think there would be less experimenting and more responsibility towards the effects of alcohol.
        Another problem is the school system, where we are taught alcohol is BAD, rather than, alcohol is okay when you are legal, and have a dd. When a 13 year old is told they must never touch something, and it's an awful thing, of course what is the first thing they will go and do?

        Honestly parents, would you rather have your older teen experiment with YOU in YOUR home where you are there to supervise... or out at a party with other 16,17, or 18 year olds?

        -Now accepting applications for Prince Charming!-
        Canadians for world domination click here! http://www.standonguard.com

        [This message was edited by ClipClop on Jul. 08, 2002 at 04:29 PM.]


        • #64
          First off... I am so thankful you did not kill a passenger or someone walking or in another car.

          You know what Sparkle101..... I have read your posts several times and guess what.... you seem convienced that you hit the pole cause you dropped your chapstick. AND you seem defensive that alot of the kids drink and so what.

          In post #1 you said "the FIRST thing" to remind us about was to wear our seat belts... why not the VERY first thing is to remind teens NOT TO DRINK UNDERAGE AT ALL and the second is IF YOU ARE EGOTISTICAL ENOUGH TO DRINK UNDERAGE...DON'T BE CARELESS ENOUGH TO DRIVE AT ALL !!!

          In another post you go on and on about the neighborhood you live in and its (my quote condensed) "better to drink than do drugs"... NO NO NO..it better to not do either...

          As far as the neighbor hood taking responsibility...we are in Newport Beach/Laguna Beach/Dana Point... one of the $$$$$$$ capitals of the west coast. Not all teens with or without $$$$$ do drugs and drink, so "the neighborhood" excuse is really lame to blame your actions on.

          The seat belt is also a GREAT law that hopefully people do all the time as a habit..

          Lots of finger shaking to go around here..

          Where were the parents at the "friends" house where you underage kids were drinking??? Where were the parents when you got into that truck??? Where were your "friends"?? Who bought the booze???

          Hey, where were your parents? What was their reaction to your drinking at all, then their reaction to your driving like that, then their reaction to the accident?? Seems like a beautiful truck and the parents would have had to be involved and responsible getting it for you...what is their involvement and responsibility now???

          Sad, tragic situations like this cause soooooooooo many deaths each year and there are so many parents of other teens killed by drunk drivers, alot of them teens.


          You should be so thankful and grateful to the good Lord above that no lives were lost in this.

          DON'T DRINK....and if you are so careless as to drink again...DON'T DRIVE... [img]/infopop/emoticons/icon_mad.gif[/img]

          And for your info...I don't think ANY of us are surprised that teens drink/do drugs/get high.... I think we HOPE AND PRAY that those of you that do ARE NOT driving in our neighborhoods...

          [This message was edited by khobstetter on Jul. 08, 2002 at 12:33 PM.]


          • #65
            Who didn't drink before it was legal to do so? [img]/infopop/emoticons/icon_rolleyes.gif[/img]

            Before you flame Sparkles, think about what you were like when you were her age! It's easy to sit at the computer and bash her, but where you really an angel @ 17?

            *Pony Rock*


            • Original Poster

              <BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by khobstetter:

              Where were the parents at the "friends" house where you underage kids were drinking??? I have no idea, she's not the best person in the world either...
              Where were the parents when you got into that truck??? No clue
              Where were your "friends"?? Getting in their cars to go to fire works.
              Who bought the booze??? I hang out with a wide age group. I'm one of the youngest and my friends go anywhere from 16-23. Most of my friends have ID's anyway so If a 21 year old can't get it, we'll get it outselves

              Hey, where were your parents? at home
              What was their reaction to your drinking at all, They know I drink... then their reaction to your driving like that, They didn't know I'd drive then their reaction to the accident?? Thankful I'm alive <HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

              *Tapestry* 2000 Dutch WB mare by Contango
              *Desperado* 1998 Dutch/TB gelding by Glendale
              *Blazin' Magic* 2000 Welsh/TB gelding
              Originally posted by JSwan
              Prove it....Otherwise, you're just coming off as a whackjob.
              Founding member of the "Not too Klassy for Boxed Wine" Clique


              • #67
                Yes, I drank underage.

                Two beers would (and will) leave me incapacitated.

                No, I wasn't an angel, but I wasn't stupid, careless, arrogant and selfish to get behind the wheel of a car while drinking ANY amount of alcohol. Just goes to prove that public education is all for nought. [img]/infopop/emoticons/icon_rolleyes.gif[/img]

                Sorry I can't think of anything positive to say. And I'm not going to really try, either. At 17, you are mature ENOUGH (not completely, but enough) to know right from wrong. We all made mistakes, sorry you dropped the ball in such an important court.


                • #68
                  Thank god you did not kill a innocent person(s)
                  My cousin was killed by a drunk driver she was 5 her mother survived I have no sympathy for you or your actions I hope you really did learn your lesson. I hope you don't drive until you are 21 [img]/infopop/emoticons/icon_frown.gif[/img]


                  • #69
                    I've been following this thread since it has started and have wanted to say something, but wasn't quite sure how to say it.

                    I am 18 (which in Canada IS legal drinking age in some provinces but in Ontario I am 4 months off or being legal) and I am no angel. Being a minister's daughter I have done some pretty rebeleous things in my few years. That being said when I turned 16 I was suffering from depression and I had to go to 14 funerals in a span of 11 months because of irresponsible driving... none were alcohol related. All these funerals were enough to make me not want to drive and I refused to even attempt to get my license up until almost a year ago. Everyone is saying driving is a right or a privelage, in my eyes it's a responsibility. To get behind the wheel of a vehicle a person is taking on the responsibility of their life and the rest of the public. Cars are a technology that was created to help speed up our almost too speedy society, it is a convenience and no one has the privelage or the right to forget about the responsibility of driving a car.

                    In regards to the underaged drinking I will admit to have doing it... yes I have even done it *gasp* in public! That being said, I KNOW I have a low tolerance to alcohol so I never have more than 2 drinks and there is always a DD or we use public transportation. I don't think very many people would be condeming sparkles if she had just drank underage. The fact that she chose to drink and then drive is what everyone is upset about and I agree it is no laughing matter.

                    Yes alcohol is a drug, it is a drug that the government tried to exterminate through prohibition. When that didn't work they made it legal again with constrictions so that it could be monitered and contribute to GDP instead of the blackmarket.

                    I agree with whoever said that parents should teach their children how to drink. My parents taught me to the best of their ability and though I chose to ignore their rule of "you may not drink unless one of us is with you" at times it has allowed me to be a more responsible drinker.

                    Kudos to you Sparkles for posting this story, helping others to learn from your mistakes and I'm glad you're not off the hook.



                    • #70
                      <BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>So what would you rather have, a kid who drinks at partys, or a kid who is facing 10-20 year for trafficing?

                      If that kid who drinks at parties is going to get behind the wheel and drive, I'd rather have the trafficker. Unlike the trafficker, the alcohol-impaired driver is a direct threat to me, the people I care about and, in fact, everyone out there.

                      Sparkles, I hope you're finding some support from these discussions. I think everyone here is rooting for you to take this stupid incident and make it a starting point for preventing others from doing the same thing. You know what it feels like to be sitting in the road, your truck totaled, your body in pain, feeling scared and alone. You don't want anyone you care about to ever have to go there themselves.

                      Become that person who takes keys away from friends at parties. Be the non-drinker who drives people home or calls cabs for them. Be the caring friend who confronts a friend when it's clear they have a substance abuse problem. Be the fearless person who goes to your friend's parents or support system to tell them exactly what's going on in their child's life.


                      • #71
                        My parents always told me that if I ever needed them to, they would come pick me up, no questions asked and no fingers pointed. I wonder why more parents can't be like this. They were only concerned with my safety (and the safety of others on the road), and I think that them not "forbidding" me to drink meant that I wasn't really interested in it. I would go to a party and "nurse" a wine cooler throughout the night, then walk home, since the only parties I went to were at my best friend's house down the street. Even then, I always had him walk me home.

                        If I *ever* did this, which I won't, since it has never occured to me to drive after drinking (call it that d*** common sense that keeps me out of trouble), my parents would ream me head to toe. Forget the courts and the cops. Yes, they'd be happy I was alive, but from that point on, my life would probably would've been "over."

                        No driving, no car, no friends, no computer, no phone, and most importantly for me... no horse.

                        I hope Sparkles has learned a lesson, but I fear she has not. It was the Chapstick's fault, and "everybody does it so why shouldn't I."

                        What's that saying about - what's right is not always popular?

                        "Because she's got a tattoo, Hank. I think she could use a home-cooked meal."


                        • #72
                          At first I thought Sparkles was brave for posting about this. I still do, and I thank her because I learned a LOT. Then her follow up posts showed the lack of maturity that got her into this mess.

                          Your instincts are in the right place Sparkles, but you've got to discipline yourself to be wiser more often. Resist the temptation to point fingers or bring up worse examples to make your situation look better--and listen to yourself speaking or writing. You know what a whiney teenager sounds like. When you hear that coming out of your mouth, be repulsed and do this:

                          1. Close your mouth.
                          2. Take a deep breath through your nose.
                          3. Smile sheepishly.
                          4. Say, "Whoops, sorry for the whine."
                          5. Make an effort to do better
                          6. Move on.

                          Every single one of us was whiney at one point in our lives. (I was seriously bad at 13. Ugh!) But don't let it last long. You can overcome it. The drinking and driving is way bad yes, the not really owning it is horrifying (why? because it suggests you might might might do it again). You bought it, now own it.

                          Dang, that was a nice truck. [img]/infopop/emoticons/icon_frown.gif[/img]


                          • #73
                            Sparkles, when you make a mistake that has the potential to kill you are never allowed to say anything about it but "I am very, very sorry" for the rest of your life.

                            When you blame Chapstick for the accident and imply your friends are all underage drunk drivers so that's OK, you will be barbequeued by everyone you meet - do not make people angrier than they already are. Your words tell us you really *don't* understand what's going on here.

                            Try this game: next time you feel the urge to shrug off even a little responsibility for your horrible mistake (yes, we know you didn't do it on purpose) think about what if someone else had been driving. Think about what if someone else had been drinking. Think about what if they'd killed your family. How would you feel towards them? Would you feel despair, agonising pain, even hatred?

                            Probably, yes. You'd feel that they had slaughtered your family just so they could have a good time - selfish doesn't even begin to describe it. Maybe they didn't get behind the wheel intending to kill people, but they knew it could happen, they knew there were laws made to prevent this happening, and they chose to do something that endangered the lives of your family. Girl, you'd be baying for their blood.

                            I am shocked you just got a suspension and a fine that would hardly cover the cost of the police pulling you over and filling out the paperwork.

                            PSSM / EPSM and Shivers Forum


                            • #74
                              so I looked at the DE DMV page. sadly that appears to be true. However, there is another part which Sparkles may have overlooked.

                              From the DMV site:

                              DUI violations are dealt with under both administrative and court proceedings, which are conducted independently of each other. Juveniles arrested for DUI and processed through Family Court could lose driving privileges until they reach legal drinking age.
                              'Computers are useless. They can only give you answers.'
                              - Pablo Picasso


                              • #75
                                I have read this entire thread with great interest. One thing that appears to be a repeating comment that I simply cannot resist the urge to reply. Several people have claimed that because they were not innocent as 17 year olds either, they can understand why this happened. So - does that mean that YOUR stupidity as a youth makes it okay for someone else to be as stupid? Trust me: you will think that way until the day you have go to the morgue to identify the remaining pieces of a loved one who was a victim of a drunken driver behind the wheel of a 2,000 pound killing machine. (and why is it we do not view cars as just that - they have such destructive capability....why shouldn't we be more strict in our regulations regarding alcohol use while driving such a beast?!) Again (I have stated this before) - I am married to a 20 year veteran cop who has held the hands of teenagers who were screaming for help as they lay pinned in the wreckage of a car (with their dead buddy squashed in the seat next to them)....and watched them die alone on a cold dark night after they were only "going along with the gang". It affected him deeply - it isn't only the family who suffers. Police, firemen, and ambulance crews are also all deeply wounded by all of the needless destruction. Thanks for hearing my little rant...

                                It sounds like you may have learned your lesson. But you can make it even better: spread the word. Call the local SADD chapter - offer to speak, hand out literature, whatever it takes to help prevent even one more person from dying.

                                Good luck to you!


                                • #76

                                  I'm not going to comment on drinking (underage or not) and driving, but it seems quite striking to me that the response to bigbay's thread on being pulled over after drinking two beers and driving (which is what sparkles did) had an entirely different tone.... everyone was telling stories of themselves getting pulled over, offering suggestions to get a lawyer, etc.

                                  Yes, sparkles got in an accident and bigbay didn't, but why the discrepancy in the tone of the threads? is it because she is a junior?

                                  just thought it was a little curious....


                                  • #77
                                    Good point, Stephanie...

                                    [img]/infopop/emoticons/icon_rolleyes.gif[/img] [img]/infopop/emoticons/icon_confused.gif[/img]


                                    • #78
                                      Sparkles, I'm glad you are ok. Posting about what happened was brave; taking responsibility, saying unequivically "I was wrong" would be even braver. No matter what caused the accident, you drank alcohol and then got behind the wheel. Do you know that you could have been arrested for drunk driving even if you'd been stopped at a light and rear-ended by another driver?

                                      Distracted driving is one of the primary causes of automobile accidents. Reaching for an object, adjusting radio or air conditioning controls -- basically anything that takes your eyes from the road and hands from the wheel -- qualify, as does holding or dialing a cell phone.

                                      When my sister, three years younger, was a sophomore in high school, one of her classmates reached over to pick up a cassette tape that had fallen to the floor. The car swerved slightly -- enough to strike and kill the grandmother of another classmate, walking on the sidewalk. You are lucky, your family is lucky.

                                      We all allow ourselves to be distracted at times -- I know that I am particularly bad about not using the hands free attachment on my cell phone (given to me by one of the 12 year olds who rode at my barn and knew my driving habits -- smart, responsible, loving kid), and your story reminds me not to be foolish abou this. So thank you.

                                      Regarding the discussion of underage drinking and those who urge remembering what it was like to be 17, I remember. I'm 23 now; it wasn't that long ago. Frankly, 17 isn't that young. At 17, I had a part time job, a horse of my own, and the bills that went along with him. I had big plans for my future, and I understood that I was responsible for maintaining the opportunities available to me. If you are mature enough to drive, you are mature enough to understand that cars can kill, and that cars plus alcohol are likely to kill. It doesn't matter what other 17 year olds do or what other mistakes kids are likely to make. Peer pressure or the influences of those around you might be why you pierce your nose or dye your hair or listen to music at deafening volumes. It might even be why you experiment with alcohol. But it cannot be why you drink and drive. Drinking and driving simply isn't one of those stages that it is ok to grow out of, one of those excusable, juvenile mistakes that everyone makes. It is deadly. It could be the last mistake, and the worst mistake, and it affects so many people who don't have any say in it at all. Being 17 isn't an excuse for drinking and driving. I feel as vehemently about adults who drink and drive, and I never, ever, get behind the wheel myself if I've had even one drink. It is never worth it.

                                      At risk of this turning into the longest post ever, I'm going to post a long poem that I first saw when I was 16 (see, I do remember!) and in Driver's Ed. I'm not doing this to make you feel bad -- I'm doing it for the same reason you posted your story, as a reminder to everyone. This poem really stuck with me. It's been widely circulated, and the author is unknown.

                                      <BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>
                                      "Death of an Innocent"
                                      I went to a party, Mom, I remembered what you said.
                                      You told me not to drink, Mom, so I drank soda instead.
                                      I really felt proud inside, Mom, the way you said I would.
                                      I did not drink and drive, Mom, even though the others said I should.
                                      I know I did the right thing, Mom, I know you are always right.
                                      Now the party is finally ending, Mom,
                                      and everyone is driving out of sight.
                                      As I got into my car, Mom, I knew I would get home in one piece.
                                      Because of the way you raised me, so responsible and sweet.
                                      I started to drive away, Mom, but as I pulled into the road,
                                      The other car did not see me, Mom, and hit me like a load.
                                      As I lay here on the pavement, Mom, I hear the policeman say,
                                      "The other guy is drunk and this is the one who will pay."
                                      I'm lying here dying, Mom, I wish you would get here soon.
                                      How could this happen to me, Mom? My life just burst like a balloon.
                                      There is blood all around me, Mom, and most of it is mine.
                                      I hear the medic say, Mom, I'll die in a short time.
                                      I just wanted to tell you, Mom, I swear I did not drink.
                                      It was the others, Mom, the others didn't think.
                                      He was probably at the same party as I.
                                      The only difference is he drank and I am the one to die.
                                      Why do people drink, Mom? It can ruin your whole life.
                                      I'm feeling sharp pains now. Pains just like a knife.
                                      The guy who hit me is walking, Mom, and I do not think it is fair.
                                      I'm lying here dying and all he can do is stare.
                                      Tell my brother not to cry, Mom, tell daddy to be brave.
                                      And when I go to heaven, Mom, put "Daddy's Girl" on my grave.
                                      Someone should have told him, Mom, not to drink and drive.
                                      If only they had told him, Mom, I would still be alive.
                                      My breath is getting shorter, Mom, I'm becoming very scared.
                                      Please do not cry for me, Mom,
                                      when I needed you, you were always there.
                                      I have one last question, Mom, before I say goodbye.
                                      I did not drink and drive, Mom, SO WHY AM I THE ONE TO DIE?


                                      • #79
                                        Very good question Stephanie and the only one to provoke an answer from me.

                                        The glaring difference between the two in my opinion, is Bigbay's immediate admission of doing something foolish without the excuses/reasons for.
                                        \"If you are going through hell, keep going.\" ~Churchill~


                                        • Original Poster

                                          Maybe some of you have misunderstood my post, or I posted it wrong. I know it was wrong to drink, I know it was wrong to drive, I know it was wrong to get the chapstick. I am not blaming the chapstick though. I blame myself for being dumb. I only wanted to point out that the whole situation could have happened less the alcohol.

                                          *Tapestry* 2000 Dutch WB mare by Contango
                                          *Desperado* 1998 Dutch/TB gelding by Glendale
                                          *Blazin' Magic* 2000 Welsh/TB gelding
                                          Originally posted by JSwan
                                          Prove it....Otherwise, you're just coming off as a whackjob.
                                          Founding member of the "Not too Klassy for Boxed Wine" Clique