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The Paul Valliere ad in the 11/15 Chronicle

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  • I don't fault COTH for the ad....no matter what we think of PV, *PV* did not place the ad, The Oxer Group did. Regardless of whether we think PV *is* The Oxer Group (he may well be...but that's not his name) there's no reason for COTH to deny The Oxer Group the privilege of taking out the ad.

    I could understand stronger opinions if the ad had some how denied the convictions or horse killings....but if *someone* wants to pretend he's making a difference, IMO that doesn't reflect badly on COTH.

    I could also understand more outrage if the ad appears in USA Eq magazine (the organization that banned him). But the truth is, no matter how closely we associate the two, COTH is *not* USA Eq.


    • Name of horse. Date of death.

      Underneath, copy verbatim the AHSA ruling on the person who killed the horse.
      Man plans. God laughs.


      • Rosierre Plateau(or something like that)


        • What Blossom said. [img]/infopop/emoticons/icon_smile.gif[/img]
          "I don't want to sound like a broken record here, but why is it that a woman will forgive homicidal behavior in a horse, yet be highly critical of a man for leaving the toilet seat up?" Dave Barry


          • Original Poster

            So that was in poor taste.

            One we said no to because we found the copy to be offensive and another because it just SO did not belong in our publication.

            If you read the outline of what they will or will not accept, it clearly outlines that the publisher can turn it down. No one is obligated to run anything, it is the choice of the individual.

            We have also had some which ran after heated debates, because half the staff thought it vulgar, potentially libelous and because it did not belong in our publication. And the publisher decided to run it anyhow. Because at the end of the day, it was his choice.

            So though I would never presume to tell anyone how to run their business, I was surprised that this ad was not turned down when they saw the ad copy.


            • Yep, I would put in some money to see a nice BIG add, reminding people just what he and the others did to those poor animals.

              I love .......... Cake
              The revolution is coming. Muhahahahahahaha!!!!!


              • But isn't it a little late for you to be posting? [img]/infopop/emoticons/icon_wink.gif[/img] What, are you borrowing Willem's puter?

                Proud member of the "Huh. I thought I'd fixed that" phase of baby green hunter ownership.
                Congratulate me! My CANTER cutie is an honor student at Goofball University!


                • Original Poster

                  And so using the opportunity to finish a bit of work that I emailed to this computer.

                  Willem does not let me use his.


                  • On this day XXX years ago, Paul Valliere, Barney Ward, George Lindemann, Jr. et al, were convicted of charges stemming from the murder of the following horses:
                    {insert names of horses with dates of death and cause of death, i.e. electrocution, crow bar to the leg, etc.}

                    Let us never forget those noble horses who died for these men's sins.

                    Let us never forget the sins of these men, in the name of pure GREED.


                    • But Coreene, that's exactly my point. Everything you're talking about deals with an ad's content. Not who placed it, or whose services are being promoted.

                      And sure, the publisher can turn down any ad he wants. The BB rules (the legal mumbojumbo ones you have to agree to when you sign up here) also state that we can remove posts and/or posters for any or no reason whatsoever. And there are plenty of people we'd love to kick off just cuz we don't like 'em... [img]/infopop/emoticons/icon_wink.gif[/img] We have every right legally... but we don't do it because that's not what this forum is about.

                      IMHO, a journalistic publication shouldn't accept or turn down ads based on the character/history/whatever of the person placing them. But, like I said... ads ain't my thing. [img]/infopop/emoticons/icon_wink.gif[/img] Just trying to present the other side of the coin.


                      • Personally I don't think COTH can refuse these PV related ads, as long as the content of the ads aren't bogus or fictitious. As someone mentioned in an earlier post....where does one draw the line on banned USAE memners?

                        However, I think the memorial/reminder ad for the horses is a great idea; it gets right to the point without all the protests. Definitely count me in if you guys want to get one going.
                        "fighting stupidity; one step at a time" -- a wise COTHer


                        • Didn't the COTH run (NOT ADS) a series of "Lest We Forget" photos of the horses that were killed??

                          Wouldn't surprise me if they did that again! Maybe we need to remind them to do it? [img]/infopop/emoticons/icon_wink.gif[/img]

                          Insurance scandals revisited....

                          It's OUT! Linda Allen's 101 Exercises for Jumping co-authored by MOI!!! [img]/infopop/emoticons/icon_biggrin.gif[/img]
                          co-author of 101 Jumping Exercises & The Rider's Fitness Program; Soon to come: Dead Ringer - a tale of equine mystery and intrique! Former Moderator!


                          • belongs to the owner of the press [publisher]
                            but BB have proved to be wonders at getting information around. [not all accurate]
                            but easy to drop in reference links.
                            more hay, less grain


                            • Ahhhhhhh I dunno, I just wish the judge (or the USAE) would have sentenced every last one of them to put in x years working at a rescue facility. It seems pretty pathetic that one of them is probably going to get away with buying his way out of the ban with advertising. But no real surprise I guess...

                              Member: TB Clique, Georgia Clique, Rust TS Clique, Willem FC, DIY Clique, Ebayers Anonymous Clique, Jobless Clique, Lawn Ornaments For Life Clique, Jigging Clique
                              "The standard you walk by is the standard you accept."--Lt. Gen. David Morrison, Austalian Army Chief


                              • Nice name [img]/infopop/emoticons/icon_wink.gif[/img] and great idea!! [img]/infopop/emoticons/icon_smile.gif[/img]

                                "I can justify anything!"
                                \"Riding a horse is not a gentle hobby, to be picked up and laid down like a game of solitaire. It is a grand passion. It seizes a person whole and, once it has done so, he will have to accept that his life will be radically changed.\" -- Ralph Waldo E


                                • Original Poster

                                  We turn down ads from advertisers as well, no matter what the content is, for various reasons.

                                  One of the most basic explanations would be that you don't see CBS programs advertised on ABC, but you see cable programs advertised on other cable networks (even those without common ownership). Lots of times it boils down to how much you want the money, lots of times it's because a publisher will look at something and say "Well, if we don't publish Ad X, it will anger Advertisers A, B and R, who then may not advertise."

                                  But no publisher is obligated or required to publish anything. There are no rules. Ads are run at the publisher's discretion. And each publisher runs his publication how he sees fit - I was just very, very surprised that COTH would have chosen to publish this one.


                                  • [QUOTE]Originally posted by Kryswyn:
                                    ...and MR. VALLIERE may not apply to the Association for reinstatement any sooner than 10 years from the date he first became suspended by the Association on account of his indictment for the crime in question and then only based _upon affirmative proof of total rehabilitation, including proof that he has taken steps to reform himself and _has performed community service to benefit the welfare of horses._ _

                                    Bingo! Mystery solved. The frightening thing is that 10 years will have passed in just four more years. He will be back.

                                    "Always look on the bright side of life, de doo, de doo de doo de doo"[/QUOTE

                                    well, if you even care, I'm gald PV is allowed to apply for a reinstatement this year. He is a wonderful trianer and person, I mean come on we all make mistakes, and other trainers have done crimes on the same level as his and ended up w/ no punishment at all. All I can say is if you dont like him then dont train w/ him, but dont talk trash about him when you dont even know him, all you know is one tiny little franction of his life witch was a mistake, he'll even tell you himself, but you have know idea how he goes out of his way to help others and how much he really cares about what he does (but believe me, I do!).


                                    • A "mistake"? What an odd word choice .....
                                      [i]\"He is your friend, your partner, your defender, your dog. You are his life, his love, his leader. He will be yours, faithful and true, to the last beat of his heart. You owe it to him to be wo


                                      • <BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by nickie0626:
                                        He is a wonderful trianer and person, I mean come on we all make mistakes, and other trainers have done crimes on the same level as his and ended up w/ no punishment at all. <HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

                                        And tell me, does that make it okay?
                                        "We all make mistakes." Sure we do...like eating pizza and nachos after 1 a.m. Killing a horse to defraud an insurance company is NOT a run-of-the-mill "mistake" that all people make at one point in their lives, it's a heinous crime. I could never be anywhere near PV; just knowing what he did would make my skin crawl. If you can overlook that, good for you. I know I couldn't.

                                        *Charter member of the GM Fan Club*
                                        *Member of the Dirt Divers 78th Airborne Unit, ATH Squadron*


                                        • People, we have beaten this subject TO DEATH. I am quite sure there is NOTHING new that can be added to this discussion.

                                          I'm thinking we need to set a limit on the number of PV threads allowed. Revisiting this topic once a year should be plenty...

                                          Anyway, I'm closing this. It's an old thread anyway.