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The Paul Valliere ad in the 11/15 Chronicle

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  • The ad could say something like, "It's not only the animal victims of 9/11 who need to be remembered." Then follow with a list of executed horses.

    And really, what if Paul V. is reinstated to USAEq at some point? What would people do? Not renew their membership? Boycott shows? Call me a cynic, but I doubt it.

    Comment


    • What about a petition to ban reinstatement, published in Coth much like certain banner announcements come out in the NY Times ......?
      "The below signatories register their oppostition to the reinstatement of the following convicted etc. etc. etc"

      Comment

      • Original Poster

        I will do it faster than $#@* through a goose.

        Comment


        • Are you all Serious?

          Would the Chronicle run an add like that?
          "All life is precious"
          Sophie Scholl

          Comment


          • "So are you suggesting that every horse from here on out be sold with an
            Owner's Manual that tells them who all the bad horse people in the world
            are?"

            Comment


            • http://www.horsenews.com/break/mayjune97/indict.htm
              more hay, less grain

              Comment


              • <BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by Moesha:
                Are you all Serious?

                Would the Chronicle run an add like that?<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

                Why not? Those proposing the ad would not be publishing anything untruthful...and I'm sure their money is just as green as that from The Oxer Group.

                ****
                New York Horse Rescue

                Comment


                • So, by taking out these ads (or by forming a dummy non-profit corp. to take them out for him, which is what it looks like), PV is apparently trying to publicly establish that he has made and is continuing to make efforts toward his own "rehabilitation", thus paving the way to get reinstated by USAE.

                  Boy, does that s*ck. Anybody who thinks we need to NOT do something about this?

                  I think my proposal would be that we simply do a snail-mail or e-mail campaign to the COTH stating that we feel their acceptance of advertising from a person who is not in good standing with USAE (enclosing a copy of the conviction - thank you Armandh) is not in the best interest of the horses, the sport, or the magazine.

                  If we don't get a response from that, then I would suggest our getting a collection together for a counter-advertisement.

                  Member: TB Clique, Georgia Clique, Rust TS Clique, Willem FC, DIY Clique, Ebayers Anonymous Clique, Jobless Clique, Lawn Ornaments For Life Clique, Jigging Clique
                  "The standard you walk by is the standard you accept."--Lt. Gen. David Morrison, Austalian Army Chief

                  Comment


                  • "MR. VALLIERE may not apply to the Association for reinstatement any sooner than 10 years from the date he first became suspended by the Association on account of his indictment for the crime in question and then only based upon affirmative proof of total rehabilitation, including proof that he has taken steps to reform himself and has performed community service to benefit the welfare of horses."

                    A few questions:

                    In whose eyes does he have to "reform"? What proof is necessary? By donating money to the ASPCA how has he performed community service to benefit the welfare of horses? What actual steps has he taken to "rehabilitate" himself?

                    I would think that working in an animal rescue shelter would hardly be reparation for the crime - much less just donating money. Continuing to teach lessons certainly isn't benefiting the welfare of horses in general.

                    Comment


                    • While I don't think I can take on the task of designing/collecting/organizing for an ad, I would certainly be willing to chip in to help pay for it. It probably doesn't even have to be a big ad. Maybe 1/4 page? Enough to send a message that we have not forgotten, and act as a deterrant for future ads, as they will know it will generate negative publicity. Save the big ad - petition for when it gets closer to them applying for reinstatement.

                      Darlyn
                      http://www.fairviewhorsecenter.com

                      Are We Having Fun Yet?

                      Comment


                      • The text of the ad could just be the reprinting of the statement from the USAEq. The one that ends:

                        "...and MR. VALLIERE may not apply to the Association for reinstatement any sooner than 10 years from the date he first became suspended by the Association on account of his indictment for the crime in question and then only based upon affirmative proof of total rehabilitation, including proof that he has taken steps to reform himself and has performed community service to benefit the welfare of horses. "
                        Janet

                        chief feeder and mucker for Music, Spy, Belle and Tiara. Someone else is now feeding and mucking for Chief and Brain (both foxhunting now).

                        Comment


                        • Does anyone else think that the large sum of money that Mr. Valliere/The Oxer Group spent running the ad would have been better spent on the animals he was trying to support?

                          Personally, I would almost be able to admire him if he did this quietly, instead of contributing only for his own personal gain.

                          "Well it's a marvelous night for a moondance" ~Van Morrison

                          Comment


                          • OK folks, couple of things here, in COTH's defense.

                            Coreene, on a quick skim through the ad policy you posted, it seems to me everything has to do with CONTENT, not with WHO is placing the ad (a point I tried to make earlier).

                            LOTS of people are "not in good standing with USAEq" at a given point in time. (Who were all those big-name people suspended for a month not so long ago?) People who are NOT talked about here in multi-page threads; people who advertise in COTH on a regular basis.

                            Certainly you all are welcome to your opinion of PV, and your opinion of the ad. But seriously, what kind of policy do you expect COTH to come up with? A background check for anyone who places an ad? No ads accepted from people who have felony convictions? Abuse convictions? Remember, PV was committed of mail fraud (I think... on a slow computer and I can't check), not of anything related to abuse. And what about people who aren't members of USAEq?

                            One other thing... for whoever said they thought a publication that promotes the horse shouldn't have taken that ad. I would bet every dollar I have that the COTH devoted more newsprint to the insurance fraud scandals than ANY other periodical, horsey or otherwise. I can say without a doubt that whether or not COTH accepted PV's ad had absolutely nothing to do with their opinion of him or his actions.

                            I don't know that I'll be able to get a response very quickly, seeing as it's a holiday weekend, but I'll see if I can get someone from the COTH's advertising department to hop on here and explain their policy and the decision to take the ad.

                            Comment


                            • What is mail fraud?

                              "Well it's a marvelous night for a moondance" ~Van Morrison

                              Comment


                              • and the one most of the 'horse killers' were actually convicted of, besides insurance fraud.

                                They used the US Mail to arrange to defraud the insurance companies - the horses who were killed were mostly heavily insured, and their deaths were made to look 'natural' so that the owners could collect on the mortality insurance. (Except for the one who was not insured for colic due to past history. That one got a crow bar to the legs, courtesy of a loving owner.)
                                Mal:This is the Captain. We have a little problem with our entry sequence, so we may experience some slight turbulence and then .... explode

                                Comment

                                • Original Poster

                                  [img]/infopop/emoticons/icon_wink.gif[/img]

                                  Comment


                                  • Correct me if I'm wrong, but I believe if he had played this same role in the murder for hire of a human being, that he could have been facing the same murder charges as the person who actually did the killing....
                                    In Honor of dublin aka Dee Dee 07/24/53-02/07/03
                                    ~~~~~
                                    \"Of course, that\'s just my opinion. I could be wrong.\" - Dennis Miller
                                    *Go Bruins - Go Niners*

                                    Comment


                                    • <BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by Ben & Me:
                                      Does anyone else think that the large sum of money that Mr. Valliere/The Oxer Group spent running the ad would have been better spent on the animals he was trying to support?

                                      <HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

                                      Absolutely. And that was what a lot of us had said last year, when the first congratulatory ad was placed in the COTH, mentioning the 9/11 donations. Though there were many animal victims (as Erin mentioned earlier), I don't see any clearly defined long-term need for donations to that charity. So, perhaps PV's money would be better put to use at another organization. Or, maybe he's just mentioning his donations from a year ago.

                                      <BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>Personally, I would almost be able to admire him if he did this quietly, instead of contributing only for his own personal gain.

                                      <HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

                                      I think the purpose of the ad is to demonstrate PV's satisfying the conditions of his potential reinstatement- helping animals. (I don't have the exact language of his suspension terms in front of me, but that's the gist of it).

                                      Comment


                                      • Exactly Coreene... the COPY. Like the Holocaust-didn't-happen ad I mentioned earlier.

                                        But have you ever heard of someone not being able to advertise their legal business, or advertise facts that are TRUE, just because people don't like them?

                                        That's what this boils down to... people think PV is scum. Well, sure... easy to see why.

                                        BUT... what a publication thinks of your character should have nothing to do with whether you get coverage if you do something newsworthy (in the case of PV's student), or whether you're allowed the same forum to promote your LEGAL business as any other trainer would be.

                                        Understand that I'm NOT defending PV's actions or past in any way. But in the interest of fairness, unless an ad is promoting a fraud or something of that nature, I think a publication is obligated to accept it.

                                        (Of course, I'm an editorial person, not an advertising person, so maybe I'm looking at this through rose-colored glasses. [img]/infopop/emoticons/icon_wink.gif[/img] )

                                        Comment


                                        • <BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR> But have you ever heard of someone not being able to advertise their legal business, or advertise facts that are TRUE, just because people don't like them? <HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

                                          Whether anybody *likes* PV or not is not at issue here. It's the fact that this man is *banned* by USAE for ten *years* and is clearly using the COTH adverts to demonstrate his alleged "reform". He is most certainly not trying to advertise his legal business, he's just trying to revise history a little bit and make himself look like a first-class "caring" professional.

                                          (Hey! I've got a great idea: on the basis of that ad, maybe we can get him for mail fraud *again*... [img]/infopop/emoticons/icon_biggrin.gif[/img] After all, we all got mailed it...)

                                          But seriously: just so as not to single out one person, in all honesty I think COTH, as a magazine of supposed influence and integrity, should not accept ads from *any* of the persons convicted, at least until such time as USAE may lift the ban.

                                          Member: TB Clique, Georgia Clique, Rust TS Clique, Willem FC, DIY Clique, Ebayers Anonymous Clique, Jobless Clique, Lawn Ornaments For Life Clique, Jigging Clique
                                          "The standard you walk by is the standard you accept."--Lt. Gen. David Morrison, Austalian Army Chief

                                          Comment

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