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BLM Declines Wild Horse Refuge Offer

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  • #41
    Originally posted by nightsong View Post
    I think you're RIGHT about closer to 7 Corners. I was 12 years old at the time of the saddle purchase (we were IGNORANT and got a saddle seat for riding hunter, just knew the difference between English and Western); we were living in Great Falls and that whole stretch of Route 7 was kind of a faraway BLUR.
    But it was the only place that sold saddles closer then Faifax so of of curse we looked a the catalogs over and over from 5 years old on and unlike Sears, we could see them. I had whole English and western sets picked out with bridles and reins and breast plates and bits. WEAM and get my $1K for a horse and all the tack!

    And at that age, I think would have adored a Mustang!

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    • #42
      Oh, those catalogs were GREAT!!! You could pick out your whole FARM!!! I remember picking out FENCING, even...

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      • #43
        Originally posted by nightsong View Post
        Oh, those catalogs were GREAT!!! You could pick out your whole FARM!!! I remember picking out FENCING, even...
        And use them for toilet paper in the outhouse, as you looked at what they had to offer.

        ---"I still have the same question I had at the outset: Who is going to care for 30,000 mustangs?
        I don't mean pay their bills. I mean hands-on care for them. Gentle them and trim their feet and deworm them and treat them when they have an injury. "---

        They are supposed to stay wild, no hoof trimming or much other than run thru a chute for necessary vaccines, so they don't become a health hazard for others, like a repository for EIA or die like flies from WNV and for the occassional injury that may need to be tended to, but even that may be considered interfering with their "natural" wild life.

        I have seen feral horses just caugth and I can say that nature is not kind.
        Depending on when you see them, they are very thin and with terrible feet, not as the ones that like to think of them as mythical figures see them, with perfect "mustang" feet, etc.
        Most any sensible horse that had a choice I think would give up being "free" for a cushy job as a domestic horse, with room service with maids and secure food, for very little work.

        I think that if you read the specifications on how to keep those horses for the government, you can get the idea of what your costs would be.
        Depending on where you are, those could be way more than $500 a head a year, if you really figure interest on the cost of the land and improvements and other, like pickups to get around to tend to it all and like fences, water and working pens, supplements in the winter months and other care and management.

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        • #44
          The short answer, Bluey, is "no one."

          These horses are surplus to the market. If they were widgets they'd be recycled into something useful. We have forbidden "recycling" for some very foolish reasons. Now we get to pay for our foolishness.

          G.
          Mangalarga Marchador: Uma Raça, Uma Paixão

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          • #45
            I just read that BLM is getting 320 MILLION from the stimulus package for trails and capital improvements. How much you wanna bet the vultures are circling over that money already? Trails are a HUGE thing on public land - the competition for which group gets a trail is huge.

            NPS is getting 650 million.
            Last edited by JSwan; Mar. 6, 2009, 09:55 AM. Reason: correction
            Brothers and sisters, I bid you beware
            Of giving your heart to a dog to tear.
            -Rudyard Kipling

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            • #46
              Originally posted by danceronice View Post
              Don't you just love someone who offers to "create" a refuge while asking for $15,000,000 per year for their upkeep?

              Sounds like: it's not all her land, the public areas in the tract aren't for grazing, AND that is a huge chunk of change for a 'stipend.' If she wants to do it, pick a new piece of private land, or take title to the animals and put them on property she owns.
              Indeed. I can well see where the BLM is coming from. And I'm fairly sure that T. Boone Pickens is more than wealthy enough to care for the horses.

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              • #47
                Originally posted by Bluey View Post
                As for using contraceptives, several studies have been showing that not getting the mares bred tends to cause problems, herds don't stick together and there is more fighting.
                We know that several kinds of contraceptives work, or gelding most stallions, but the science is not up to par with that quite yet as to what is best for each herd's stability.

                Do you know who did any of the studies? I've been looking for something like that... it would be interesting to see what happens in a feral herd when you take away the ability to breed. How would it affect them?
                Visit us at Bluebonnet Equine Humane Society - www.bluebonnetequine.org

                Want to get involved in rescue or start your own? Check out How to Start a Horse Rescue - www.howtostartarescue.com

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                • #48
                  Originally posted by cowgirljenn View Post
                  Do you know who did any of the studies? I've been looking for something like that... it would be interesting to see what happens in a feral herd when you take away the ability to breed. How would it affect them?
                  There are a lot of studies out there but there does not appear to be a consensus. There was a study done on feral herds in NC/VA and no difference was observed.

                  Other studies showed that contraception caused a tremendous disruption on the social ecology.

                  There are other studies done on different types of contraceptives as well - but I would be cautious about using information on different species and applying it to horses.

                  If you are interested you can probably read the abstracts free using google scholar.

                  Wildlife contraception is pretty interesting but I don't think it's been perfected yet. And no one knows what the long term implications are. I guess you could say "it works" but no one knows what will happen 50 years down the road. Humans usually screw up every time they try and manipulate nature.... but that's just my personal opinion.
                  Brothers and sisters, I bid you beware
                  Of giving your heart to a dog to tear.
                  -Rudyard Kipling

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                  • #49
                    Anecdotal evidence but I don't like the contraception treatments they are trying here in Utah. They just treated the Cedar Fort herd I think- despite the fact that after treating another herd down in the Price area, the mares cycled year round after the shot wore off and there are more foals being born at bad times of year. I guess that's one way to keep numbers down.

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                    • #50
                      Originally posted by cowgirljenn View Post
                      Do you know who did any of the studies? I've been looking for something like that... it would be interesting to see what happens in a feral herd when you take away the ability to breed. How would it affect them?
                      The studies I read about were fairly recent, in NW herds and all I got from them was that it was disrupting herds, so more studies were needing to see why and how better to use contraceptives or sterilization so that would not happen.
                      I bet that more can be found thru the BLM site, since they should have been the ones to approve them.

                      Here is one release of why the BLM denied the request as made by Mrs Pickens and that there is talk that they would like for her to present it again, but in compliance with the existing laws:


                      ---"Bureau of Land Management (BLM) officials said no to Madeleine Pickens’ (wife of oilman T. Boone Pickens) offer of creating a refuge for 30,000 wild horses because BLM says the plan doesn’t fit current federal rules.

                      Pickens wanted to establish a sanctuary for horses currently in BLM long-term holding facilities after BLM said it was considering euthanasia for some of the animals. The refuge would be located on a million-acre Nevada site made up of both public and private lands. And she requested a $500/horse/year BLM stipend to fund a nonprofit foundation to oversee the horses’ care.

                      But BLM says the Wild Free-Roaming Horses and Burro Act of 1971 only allows stipends for private landowners who care for federally-owned horses. Because public portions of the site lie outside grazing areas designated by the Act, federally-owned horses can’t be located there.

                      Still, Nevada State BLM Director Ron Wenker hopes to work something out. "We could contract the foundation to care for the wild horses on private land, or we could give her title to the horses making them private property without compensation. We haven't closed the door," he says.
                      -- TheHorse.com "---

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                      • #51
                        Originally posted by bit-o-honey View Post
                        When you read what is required of the contractor to support the wild horses, and given the overhead costs of running a non-profit, $500 per year per horse is not much. The contractor is required to provide all the infrastructure (tractors, diesel, fencing, workers, etc), the land (could be used for something else profitable), and to feed the horses adequate protein if forage is not enough (ETC). Have you checked hay prices in the last couple of years? Sure the ranchers can grow and make their own hay for the mustangs, but they are losing profit on that hay. $500 per horse to cover supporting the horses and the non-profit is TODAY's cost of living. Kudos to Mrs. Pickens for at least opening a dialogue and offering a solution. I hope they work something out.
                        If you are talking about a private contractor taking care of the mustangs, it is my understanding that these people would be gentling/breaking to ride, etc. Mrs. Pickens plans on leaving the horses wild. This seems to include leaving them to their own devises as far as food goes, as well as no need for spending time or paying people to work with them so that they can be adoptable.

                        So her $500 a head is not going to anything other than probably fencing. It may also go to campsites and cabins as part of the 'tourist attraction' aspect of the refuge. She also stated she was going to accomplish this with her own money in original press releases.

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