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BLM Declines Wild Horse Refuge Offer

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  • #21
    Originally posted by One is Enough View Post
    Maybe it's a longevity problem. If Pickens could live forever, then surely she could take proper care of them happily ever after. Not the case as far as I know, so it almost has to be set up as a nonprofit. Someone has to take over when she dies.
    Although this is certainly true, she is still a relatively young woman. She is the former Madeleine Paulson (who with her husband raced quite a nice stable of TBs, including Cigar) and she is quite a bit younger than her current husband.

    But I certainly understood that her offer included a considerable investment of her own resources, not that she would set up a nonprofit and expect annual government funding to keep it alive.
    If you are allergic to a thing, it is best not to put that thing in your mouth, particularly if the thing is cats. - Lemony Snicket

    Comment


    • #22
      Originally posted by poltroon View Post
      Although this is certainly true, she is still a relatively young woman. She is the former Madeleine Paulson (who with her husband raced quite a nice stable of TBs, including Cigar) and she is quite a bit younger than her current husband.

      But I certainly understood that her offer included a considerable investment of her own resources, not that she would set up a nonprofit and expect annual government funding to keep it alive.
      Death happens as it will and age is no barrier. Responsibly looking towards the mustangs' care after her death, could have been a concern of hers. But really all this is rampant speculation.

      Comment


      • #23
        I figured something like this would happen.

        Wonder how she didn't get this added to the stimulus package.

        Because God knows Americans are just dying for another tourist attraction right now.

        BLM is a typical gov't agency but their mission is not to protect a single species (including humans)

        Oh well. Maybe her portfolio has taken a hit just like everyone else.

        If she was working with HSUS her plan to create an "attraction" makes sense. HSUS would have used it for fundraising purposes - take a major donor there for a guaranteed viewing of feral horses and then just sit back and watch the cash pour in. Showcases like that are pretty common in philanthropy.

        Though I don't foresee rivers of cash pouring in - at least not for the next few years. I just looked at closing numbers and gold is almost 1000$. Hold on to your hats, folks - it's going to be a wild ride. Downhill.
        Brothers and sisters, I bid you beware
        Of giving your heart to a dog to tear.
        -Rudyard Kipling

        Comment


        • #24
          Originally posted by danceronice View Post
          Don't you just love someone who offers to "create" a refuge while asking for $15,000,000 per year for their upkeep?

          Sounds like: it's not all her land, the public areas in the tract aren't for grazing, AND that is a huge chunk of change for a 'stipend.' If she wants to do it, pick a new piece of private land, or take title to the animals and put them on property she owns.
          T. Boone did say the first billion was the toughest.

          I guess the old gal has learned a thing or two from the her marido.

          Is it too late to cancel the cannonization St. Madeliene of Pickins?

          G.
          Mangalarga Marchador: Uma Raça, Uma Paixão

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          • #25
            If she wants to be paid to care for the mustangs, then she should go through all the effort to become a private contractor. There are ranchers out there who are federal contractors to care for BLM horses, on private property (probably on public land also).

            https://www.fbo.gov/index?s=opportun...=core&_cview=1

            There are the standards, and in case that link doesn't work, go here https://www.fbo.gov/?s=main&mode=list&tab=list
            and search for NAR080108

            They have quite a few requirements....

            Here are a handful, this is the summary paragraph. There is more detail in the actual site.

            The contractor shall provide all necessary land, facilities, personnel and supplies to perform the following general tasks: Provide land, forage, shelter, salt, minerals, water and fences necessary to properly care for and maintain 500 to 2,500 (Based on the offeror's proposal) wild horses grazing in pastures. The pastures shall be capable of producing sufficient standing forage (12 animal unit months of forage per animal) to provide for most of the nutritional requirements of the animals on a yearlong basis. The contractor must also provide supplemental feed as necessary to maintain the horses in good condition (i.e. during periods of drought, deep snow, ice storms, fire, during times when the forage is depleted of protein content or when other circumstances warrant). Supplemental feeding is not intended to provide the entire forage intake for extended periods while in pastures and shall not be included in carrying capacity determinations; Provide corrals and adequate facilities to load and unload wild horses on an as needed basis; Unload, sort and segregate animals upon their arrival, in the event that additional horses are transported to the facility; Gather and move horses from pasture to pasture as needed, supervise their health and welfare, provide supplementary feed as needed and maintain the facilities in a safe condition; Gather and hold in isolation horses that fall under the criterion of adoptable or saleable wild horses for a minimum of 30 days, until time for shipment; Provide weekly monitoring of the animals to assess their health and determine death loss. Prior to submission of the monthly invoice the contractor will conduct a complete inventory of all wild horses. The results of the each inventory will be included in the monthly invoice. Maintain a record keeping system that documents the frequency and results of these observations; Provide a record keeping system that identifies the location of each horse on site and other information, such as its overall condition, death, etc. Each death will be recorded by the freeze mark and/or description of the animal, date the animal was noted as dead and then submitted on each months invoice. The records shall be made available for duplication within 5 days after a request is made by the COR and/or PI; Dispose of the remains of dead horses. The contractor may be required to euthanize horses that are suffering or are in pain, as an act of mercy.

            Comment


            • #26
              Originally posted by poltroon View Post
              Although this is certainly true, she is still a relatively young woman. She is the former Madeleine Paulson (who with her husband raced quite a nice stable of TBs, including Cigar) and she is quite a bit younger than her current husband.
              FWIW, Pickens is in her 60s.

              Comment


              • #27
                <deleted personal>
                <deleted personal>

                I'd not read those qualifications to be a private contractor. Mrs. Pickens could do that on her own dime 100%.

                Now - someone refresh my memory - you can sell give or donate feral horses after what - a year? So couldn't Mrs. Pickens take ownership, wait the required period of time, create a foundation, retitle the horses, and then run it as a 170(b)?

                Let's see..... I'm thinking the issue would be landownership - driving up prices as another person already mentioned. But I think she could do this as a 170(b), especially if she was to use the herds for research into... contraception or something.

                I'd have to think on it a while because my memory is fuzzy on how those are set up.
                Last edited by Moderator 2; Mar. 6, 2009, 05:09 AM.
                Brothers and sisters, I bid you beware
                Of giving your heart to a dog to tear.
                -Rudyard Kipling

                Comment


                • #28
                  Yes they did. That is exactly what they did. <deleted, personal>

                  <deleted personal>

                  I do not remember anything about asking for $500 per horse when Ms Pickens first made her proposal. I do remember it was to use some federal land. Not all, but some. And the BLM was saying the horses cost them $30mil a year.

                  Sounds like the option is not dead. but the terms must comply with the federal rules. She can still take all the horses, she just cannot expect them to be paid for by the Feds.
                  Last edited by Moderator 2; Mar. 6, 2009, 05:11 AM. Reason: Personal. Please refrain

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                  • #29
                    <deleted personal>

                    As far as Mrs. Pickens goes; there are a lot of trusts out there that handle non-profit issues. They cover scholarships, schools, programs for needy/young etc. They are fully funded out of trust funds from life insurance policies and stipulations in wills from personal estates. So...if Mrs. Pickens was really just concerned about the future of the mustangs after her demise, hence the asking for the stipend and possibly some kind of 'partnership' with the BLM - she could have just set up a non-profit that will be run by a trust fund when she goes. It is VERY simple to set up. Running it may not be so, but setting up is.

                    Asking for $500/head for horses that are not going to get grain, likely never see the farrier or vet is ridiculous in my book. It speaks of someone trying to milk the government and kudos to the BLM for rejecting the proposal.
                    Last edited by Ajierene; Mar. 6, 2009, 05:09 PM.

                    Comment


                    • #30
                      I have absolutely no idea what on earth you are ranting about. I'm not defending anyone and this is not the 6th grade - though I do wonder sometimes. I've never heard of Speed Racer except as a cartoon character.

                      The fact remains that attorneys are just another profession. One among many. Not infallible, not immune from criticism - whether personal or professional. Good works isn't a shield, either. Volunteerism is common among Americans. So common it's not even really worth mentioning.

                      Mrs. Pickens will either make this work or she won't. But there better not be one thin dime of taxpayer money going to fund her private little zoo. Even if I had been in support of her effort initially I wouldn't be now. Not when investors are stockpiling gold. I hope all of you appreciate the significance of gold prices.



                      Originally posted by equinelaw View Post
                      Y

                      I do not remember anything about asking for $500 per horse when Ms Pickens first made her proposal. I do remember it was to use some federal land. Not all, but some. And the BLM was saying the horses cost them $30mil a year.

                      Sounds like the option is not dead. but the terms must comply with the federal rules. She can still take all the horses, she just cannot expect them to be paid for by the Feds.
                      Last edited by Moderator 2; Mar. 6, 2009, 05:13 AM.
                      Brothers and sisters, I bid you beware
                      Of giving your heart to a dog to tear.
                      -Rudyard Kipling

                      Comment


                      • #31
                        In the normal world gold prices might be an indicator. But in these crazy times-oil was close to 150$ a barrel just a few months ago and now is in the 30s and 40s. So a few months later-who knows? These are crazy times..

                        But yeah-initially Pickens seemed like a good idea. But 500 bucks a year for life? I have a mustang too-can I get that too?

                        Comment


                        • #32
                          Originally posted by tkhawk View Post
                          These are crazy times..

                          But yeah-initially Pickens seemed like a good idea. But 500 bucks a year for life? I have a mustang too-can I get that too?
                          That's my point. Crazy times.

                          The wallet snaps shut. If HSUS was going to work with her to create a showcase park for major donors - the well is dry and the donors are hiding until the storm is over.

                          She could still create her own foundation... but the current administration has stated, quite emphatically, that tax breaks for charitable giving are going to be reduced in some fashion. How and when I don't know.

                          Regular people may think that their 25$ gift is what funds charities - but annual giving is just pocket change. Philanthropy in the US is funded by major donors and complicated tax planning. Mess with that..... and there is no incentive to give.

                          That might be a factor as well. She can still take ownership of the horses and pay for their care - but there is no reason to unless she can leverage the ownership into something that benefits her or Mr. Pickens. Wind farming, foundation, charitable trust, she could buy up grazing leases I guess.

                          But if Warren Buffett has lost 50% of his portfolio I shudder to think what hers looks like. Yikes.
                          Brothers and sisters, I bid you beware
                          Of giving your heart to a dog to tear.
                          -Rudyard Kipling

                          Comment


                          • #33
                            Well, the Pickins thing is OBE anyway as the Pres is gonna crack down on contracting of governmental services (particularly no-bid contracts).

                            G.
                            Mangalarga Marchador: Uma Raça, Uma Paixão

                            Comment


                            • #34
                              Originally posted by Guilherme View Post
                              Well, the Pickins thing is OBE anyway as the Pres is gonna crack down on contracting of governmental services (particularly no-bid contracts).

                              G.

                              I can hear the shrieking coming from the Beltway Bandits!

                              Tim Kaine isn't going to be pleased - if it wasn't for contractors this state would be bankrupt. The next time he and the Pres meet they may need gloves and a referee.

                              I hear the nonprofits are screaming up a storm at the prospect of losing major gifts. That could destroy philanthropy as we know it in the US.

                              Well - looks like the BLM is back where it started. Can't keep 'em, can't shoot 'em, can't give 'em away. And soon.... can't feed 'em. That's just plain sad.
                              Brothers and sisters, I bid you beware
                              Of giving your heart to a dog to tear.
                              -Rudyard Kipling

                              Comment


                              • #35
                                Originally posted by Ajierene View Post
                                Asking for $500/head for horses that are not going to get grain, likely never see the farrier or vet is ridiculous in my book. It speaks of someone trying to milk the government and kudos to the BLM for rejecting the proposal.
                                When you read what is required of the contractor to support the wild horses, and given the overhead costs of running a non-profit, $500 per year per horse is not much. The contractor is required to provide all the infrastructure (tractors, diesel, fencing, workers, etc), the land (could be used for something else profitable), and to feed the horses adequate protein if forage is not enough (ETC). Have you checked hay prices in the last couple of years? Sure the ranchers can grow and make their own hay for the mustangs, but they are losing profit on that hay. $500 per horse to cover supporting the horses and the non-profit is TODAY's cost of living. Kudos to Mrs. Pickens for at least opening a dialogue and offering a solution. I hope they work something out.

                                Comment


                                • #36
                                  Originally posted by JSwan View Post
                                  I figured something like this would happen.

                                  Wonder how she didn't get this added to the stimulus package.
                                  *snort* Spot on.

                                  I still have the same question I had at the outset: Who is going to care for 30,000 mustangs?
                                  I don't mean pay their bills. I mean hands-on care for them. Gentle them and trim their feet and deworm them and treat them when they have an injury.

                                  Comment


                                  • #37
                                    Originally posted by greysandbays View Post
                                    Around here, us hicks would be suggesting "a Cracker Jack box" or "from 'Monkey' Wards" (usually known as "Mongomery Wards", which for the young whippersnappers who won 't be old enough to remember such things, was a mail order catalog like Sears Robuck used to be).
                                    They ALSO had great big department-style stors. I got my first saddle at Monkey Ward's!!! I think it was in Bailey's Crossroads.

                                    Comment


                                    • #38
                                      Originally posted by nightsong View Post
                                      They ALSO had great big department-style stors. I got my first saddle at Monkey Ward's!!! I think it was in Bailey's Crossroads.
                                      I think right down from 7 Corners? The Mall, Koons Ford and Rt 50? If you mean the one in Arlington? Falls Church.

                                      Comment


                                      • #39
                                        <deleted, personal>

                                        And trust me, BLM would very happily shoot all those horses. They are not worried about their jobs!!
                                        Last edited by Moderator 2; Mar. 6, 2009, 05:23 AM.

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                                        • #40
                                          I think you're RIGHT about closer to 7 Corners. I was 12 years old at the time of the saddle purchase (we were IGNORANT and got a saddle seat for riding hunter, just knew the difference between English and Western); we were living in Great Falls and that whole stretch of Route 7 was kind of a faraway BLUR.

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