The death of a horse business

[Ridge Runner]

Grass fed basics. BTW...cows evolved to eat grass....not corn and soy!

http://www.eatwild.com/basics.html

http://www.eatwild.com/healthbenefits.htm

[Bluey]

Ask County, he sells "grass fed" beef, I think, that has been fed grain to finish.

I don't think many people would eat much beef, if it was not finished on grains.
When you think what free roaming chickens eat, when not fed a ration, many people that today are squeamish would not like to think of eating those chickens.

There is so much that is the perception of what we like or not or what we think is best.

But you can google for all of that, I don't want to hijack this any further.

With the economy the way it is, I expect the OP is thinking that it may be better to get out, before things get worse.
I don't see the horse industry getting better any time soon.
We have a heavier footprint on our resources for a hobby and supporting industries for that hobby.
Hard to see if it is a hobby that will survive hard times.

[JSwan]

Again I apologize to the OP and agree that the horse industry is going to have a lot of trouble for a while. I like to be optimistic but I think it's going to one of the last industries to recover.

Now here is something odd. My aunt is a Mary Kay lady and relies on that to supplement her meager pension. I've been tremendously worried if she could make ends meet.

Her answer? She's doing fine. Business is down a little but it appears women's vanity is somewhat recession resistant. Her clientele is older, many on reduced/retirement incomes - but these ladies do treasure their little luxuries. A new lipstick, maybe some cologne.

I remember family members telling me their WWII stories, and relatives with their Depression stories. Folks did still smile, have some fun, and figure out ways to stretch their pennies.

I'm not suggesting the OP start a new business venture. But when she is taking stock of her knowledge, skills and experience and looking for opportunities.... perhaps consider what people feel they can't go without. You never know what opportunity might be there. Dunno.

Ask County, he sells "grass fed" beef, I think, that has been fed grain to finish.

I don't think many people would eat much beef, if it was not finished on grains.
When you think what free roaming chickens eat, when not fed a ration, many people that today are squeamish would not like to think of eating those chickens.
With the economy the way it is, I expect the OP is thinking that it may be better to get out, before things get worse.
I don't see the horse industry getting better any time soon.
We have a heavier footprint on our resources for a hobby and supporting industries for that hobby.
Hard to see if it is a hobby that will survive hard times.

[quietann]

is it? look at the nutritional content of "old fashioned" free-range eggs here compared to factory eggs, look at Table 4: http://jn.nutrition.org/cgi/content/full/131/11/3065S

it's been substantiated over and over that free-range, free-fed animals have a different nutritional profile when eaten compared to grain-fattened factory farmed animals. A much healthier nutritional profile.
Course it's a LOT cheaper to raise factory-farm grain-fattened food than natural, healthy foods. Most of us wouldn't be able to afford the healthier meats and eggs.

I have many friends who have just cut back on the amount of meat/eggs they eat, because they would rather have a smaller quantity of grass-fed animal meat and/or free-range chicken eggs than buy the cheap stuff. One or two of the meat eaters have just gone vegetarian after they lost their jobs.

I've had free range/organic eggs (from chickens I know.) There is absolutely NO comparison with factory farmed eggs. It's like eating a completely different food. Yes at $3.25/dozen they are quite dear, but two make a satisfying portion, as opposed to 3 or even 4 of the "regular" kind." The chickens eat a lot of bugs, leftover fruits and veggies, some grain etc. This is very sentimental but I like walking into the hen house at the end of the day when the hens are quiet and petting them.

Ditto with grass-fed beef (raised by the same person who has the chickens). It *is* a little tougher but also much more flavorful. Again, expensive but I'd rather eat a smaller portion of it than eat a big portion of the "regular" kind. The cows get a small portion of grain each day.

[Guilherme]

I recently attended a "grass fed beef" and pasture restoring practices seminar put on by our local Soil Conservation and Farm Service office. The principle speaker was Mr. Greg Judy of MO.

It was a very interesting presentation and Mr. Judy makes a strong case for his method (which could be called "extreme intensive grazing"). I bought his book and as he was signing it I asked him, specifically, to speak about money and he said he would. Sadly, he never directly discussed the economics of his program. The closest he came was to admit that if he did not sell directly to consumers who wanted a "grass fed" product he got much less at the stock barn for his cattle than those raised in a more traditional manner. He said that even at this he could make a good profit because he input costs were very low. For 2008 he said he bought and fed 80 round bales of hay for 250 head of cattle. That's a very low hay input.

He also stated that he was running 250 head on about 700 acres of grass (he leased/owned a total of 1250 acres). In his opinion he could double this number over time. He would be increasing his grass areas by clearing some forest land on some of his property.

His "mentor" is Ian Mitchell-Innes from South Africa. Judy states he runs 6000 head on about 12000 acres.

This system is VERY intensive and probably less suited to horses than cows, sheep, or pigs. The right kind of stock must also be selected to maximize the benefits of grass grazing. Many of the standard beef breeds have be selectively bred to maximize the benefits of grain feeding. They will not do well on a pure grass diet until they have been "selected" back.

If you Google "grass fed beef" you will be bombarded with sites extolling its virtues. But try and buy some at Walmart or Food City or Kroger. Last time I had any it was less than outstanding in quality compared to what I buy from Tamara's husband, Calvin.

After all my skepticism, I'm still seriously considering getting back into the cattle business and using Mr. Judy's system. Not because I want to produce grass fed beef as much as I'm interested in the system as a way to renovate pastures with minimal expense. Instead of buying a lot chemicals I'll be producing a product. I am pretty sure the cash I'll get when I sell the product will be a percentage of what traditional raising would be, but input will be an even smaller precentage. So the money I put in my pocket will be larger. And isn't that the Object of the Exercise.

G.

[JSwan]

The right kind of stock must also be selected to maximize the benefits of grass grazing. Many of the standard beef breeds have be selectively bred to maximize the benefits of grain feeding. They will not do well on a pure grass diet until they have been "selected" back.

That is what is being done here. Selectively breeding and using heritage breeds like Devon. I haven't been able to get ahold of any Devon yet. I had delayed because I thought I had located a seller but he isn't parting with any.

It does make a difference. Also slaughtering at a lower weight.

[Bluey]

---"I recently attended a "grass fed beef" and pasture restoring practices seminar put on by our local Soil Conservation and Farm Service office."---

Practically all here attended similar seminars in the mid 1980's, the book being sold then was "Intensive Grazing Management: Forage, Animals, Men and Profits", by Burt Smith, Pingsung Leong, Geroge Love.
Yep, I have it and several others.
All of us got many ideas, but as a whole, the systems as described and the way our circumstances are, it is a washout.

Several people here were very impressed, tried in all kinds of ways, attended many seminars given by all kinds of australians and new zealanders and either gave up after a few years or went broke trying.

I don't know in your area, but here, where we run many acres per animal and it rains when it wants and mostly it doesn't rain, you can't micromanage like any of those intensive management gurus tell you you can.

Just think, if it was that easy, they would not be selling their ideas in books and seminars, but would be out there, running very successful operations.

[tkhawk]

Wow you guys in the east must have some pretty good pasture. Out here 1 cow/horse in two acres without anything to supplement is unimaginable.

[mroades]

How did a thread about a horse person potentially going out of business turn into a thread about free range versus commercial food?

[Bluey]

How did a thread about a horse person potentially going out of business turn into a thread about free range versus commercial food?

I tried to steer it off, but I was not successful, so gave up.

I hope that the OP is getting some good ideas after all.
She indicated that she felt better about her problems today, so something here may have helped.

[Merry]

I haven't posted on COTH in ages. Who knew it would take a topic like the OP's to get me to log in again? I sympathize with the OP's problem. I see the moribund state of the horse world all around me. I'm in Southern Calif., just inland from Orange County.

I had a booming part-time business giving lessons at my ex-trainer's place, but in the last 6 months the number of clients have shrunk in half. I have parents who've been laid off and others whose jobs have been downsized. They simply can't afford the luxury of riding lessons. Few of the ammie adults want to commit to multi-day shows or a long-term lease of a horse because they're concerned about their jobs: Even if they're employed, they're worrying that their job could be axed next.

One of my trail riding buddies has a Masters in Biology and an MBA. A couple of years ago she was recruited to an up & coming technology company with the promise of a fast-track promotion. Then the economy began to tank. Her raise and bonus are on hold indefinitely. To make ends meet-- and help pay for the 3 horses in her backyard-- she took in a renter at her house. She also applied at a Bob's Big Boy (a casual hamburger restaurant) opening in town as a food server for the night shifts. For 140 restaurant positions THEY HAD 5,400 APPLICATIONS!

Finally, as many of you know, I am a writer/journalist on equine topics. Because most major equine-related companies have cut way back on their advertising budgets to survive, ad revenue is down for all equestrian publications (whether they want to publicly admit it or not). So that means less freelance work for me on horsey topics.

Fortunately, I saw this coming. Last year I took every writing job I could find writing about topics as varied as planning extravagant weddings to innovative beauty treatments offered at day spas. These writing assignments were for upper-end magazines targeting a demographic not as affected by the economy as the general horsekeeping demographic. So I've been doing okay, income wise, but only because I forced myself to step outside my comfort zone.

Sadly, I feel like we haven't seen the worst of it yet in the horse world. If you're making a living-- or relying on income-- from anything horse-related, it's best to figure out a Plan B. It may not be your dream job with horses, but it'll allow you to survive until things (hopefully) turn around.

The End.

(Sorry for the long post!)

[onthebit]

As for "grass fed beef", sorry, it is still fed grain, just on grass pastures.
Truly grass only fed beef would not be acceptable for any other than gound meat and even then the taste is questionable to many.

The trouble with grass feed beef is that the cattle spend all the time laying by the bunk, waiting for their next meal, just as they do in a feedlot pen and using about as much room per head as in a pen.

Bluey, I raise grassfed beef as part of my living. It is truly grassfed. It tastes great and we sell out every year. There is an art to raising good grass fed beef, and it involves a lot more than just sticking a cow in a pasture.

As for your statements that they don't graze and just hang around by the bunk like any cow in a feedlot . . . in my experience anyway that is just nonsense. If you would like to see grassfed cattle that spend their days grazing and nowhere near a bunk I invite you to visit our farm and taste our beef. Basically none of the "facts" you stated in the quote above are accurate, at least not accurate for our farm. www.webbfamilyfarms.com if you are interested.

[caffeinated]

The grass fed beef I've had I thought was quite good, actually.

Not that I have anything useful to add, really, but I read about half of "the omnivore's dilemma" over the weekend, and it was quite interesting. I knew I preferred grass fed meat in general, but I had no idea what it takes to keep corn-fed cattle healthy. Seems to me it's more about reaching slaughter weight faster than anything having to do with bovine health or eating habits.

And the eggs I've gotten from friends who have their own chickens (who eat bugs and get time outside and such) are definitely better than the kind from the grocery store... big, bright orange yolks... yum.

I'm pretty excited, found several farms nearby that produce both grass fed beef and eggs/poultry in that manner

Crap. This isn't really horse related at all, is it?

[Ridge Runner]

I tried to steer it off, but I was not successful, so gave up.

The heck you did! You started it! Here is your first post on the topic. As typical, you try to turn every topic into a push to alert all of us to the hazards of animal rights nuts. That led to the agribusiness discussion that followed. We still don't know exactly what horse business the OP is actually in but the small farm versus big corporation discussion came right out of your first post.

In the cattle business, we are producing for a more complaining and ungrateful consumer the most aboundant, cheapst, cleanest and safest meat people ever had available.
We are using the least resources ever to do so, with the smallest herd of cows producing the most meat ever, under some of the most humane management cattle ever had.
Now, because a few with an agenda of their own spew myths and take stories way out of context, using the very few terrible abuse cases, like that of the law breaking slaugher workers in California, or the upcoming HBO animal rights dream hatchet type documentary, everyone in animal agriculture are being demonized.
Since when did the press changed from informing to producing propaganda for whoever pay for it?
Documentaries were originally made with journalistic principles of balancing the issues, not being stridently and without remorse onesided.

Why is that even important to how we do business today?
Because those groups are using the rare abuse that happens to get laws passed with such burdensome regulations no one can comply and stay in business, that makes our work of helping feed a nation practically impossible.

We are now in a situation equivalent to laws that would tell us that yes, if we want horses, we can own some, but we can't touch them, they are to live as feral horses do and all we can do is watch them frolic in their very large pastures.
Why? Because confining them in small pens or stalls, putting saddles on them and riding them is going against the nature of the horse.

People have this idillic idea of how the world should run, where what they use comes from and for many both don't mesh.
We still can't make omelettes without breaking eggs, for every action, there is still a reaction.

[twofatponies]

I don't really have that much to add here, except:

JSwan and TwoFatPonies, I love reading your posts. I hope you both write books some day.

OP, sorry things aren't going well - I wish you the best!

Me? Gee, thanks! It's on my to-do list.

Another thought for the OP - I love what someone said (and I just re-read the thread and can't find the post again, sorry!) about how sometimes things work out, and sometimes when they don't you look back a few years later and it seems like maybe it was for the best.

I look back at a lot of things I did, and I can either shake my head at the waste of time it was... or think about how it unexpectedly led me to something new. New doors open sometimes when you are least expecting it. But as much as you can do to be networked, tune up various other skills you have, be pro-active, agile and aware, etc. helps you be ready if there is another opportunity, or an idea for changing your current business to work in a new way.

Still, my sympathies. It's never fun to struggle with a business like that, esp. when you've had it so long. Best of luck.

[Laurierace]

Speaking of things unexpectedly leading you to something new, as I said in an earlier post I am about to finish EMT school as a result of losing my horse business of 15 years. Unfortunately or fortunately depending upon how you word it, I used one of the skills I learned in that class to save my own daughter's life last night. She choked on a big bite of angel hair pasta and I was able to perform the heimlich as they taught us in class and clear her airway. If this whole thing about losing my business and such was for no other purpose than to put me there at that moment knowing what to do for her, it was all worth it.

[Guilherme]

Wow you guys in the east must have some pretty good pasture. Out here 1 cow/horse in two acres without anything to supplement is unimaginable.

It's a question of rainfall.

We get just short of 60" per year locally. That's a lot (we are the third wettest area in North America; the other two places are in the Pacific Northwest).

Of course if you go to the Big Bend of Texas it not one cow/one calf/one acre, it's one cow/one calf/one SECTION.

I'm skeptical that the program will work, but the risk is small and the potential rewards high. So I'll likely give it a shot.

G.

[avezan]

Speaking of things unexpectedly leading you to something new, as I said in an earlier post I am about to finish EMT school as a result of losing my horse business of 15 years. Unfortunately or fortunately depending upon how you word it, I used one of the skills I learned in that class to save my own daughter's life last night. She choked on a big bite of angel hair pasta and I was able to perform the heimlich as they taught us in class and clear her airway. If this whole thing about losing my business and such was for no other purpose than to put me there at that moment knowing what to do for her, it was all worth it.

Oh my goodness. Things do happen for a reason. I am a firm believer in that. I'm glad you were there for your daughter. Now maybe the racing business will pick up, and your horse will be "the one"!

[Bluey]

The heck you did! You started it! Here is your first post on the topic. As typical, you try to turn every topic into a push to alert all of us to the hazards of animal rights nuts. That led to the agribusiness discussion that followed. We still don't know exactly what horse business the OP is actually in but the small farm versus big corporation discussion came right out of your first post.

Not on purpose, I was commenting on the OP's post and others took off with it and ran.

In blind taste tests, where people don't know where their steak is coming from, EVERY person choose corn fed beef as the best, without question.

Now, there may be other reasons people eat other and like it.
Of course, you can cook any kind of food, if you are a good cook and make it delicious, no matter where it comes from, but for real, tasty plain beef steaks, sorry, corn fed is the gold standard for practically anyone that tastes it.
The consumer speaks and if strictly grass fed was that good, other than veal, that is a different thing, as milk is it's main food, not grass, grass fed is what the industry would provide.

[Ridge Runner]

Bluey,

No one is going to take your corn fed beef from you so let up already. Everyone has different tastes. I prefer lean meat like venison myself. Whatever...give it a rest.