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Are your horses in your will?

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  • #21
    This is not legal advice, just experience as this is how our family will is drafted.

    In many states you can incorporate another document in a trust. The benefit to incorporating another document is that you can change the other document without changing your will or trust. This is very useful if, for example, one of your horses dies or you buy a new horse -- and you can alter where the horses go without paying a lawyer to redo the will.

    Of course, we always ask before doling out the horses on paper. It can lead to rather funny "if we all died in a plane crash, would you want Dobbin?" conversations.

    Of course, before you attempt to do this talk to an estate planning lawyer and make sure it would be valid in your state.
    Last edited by fordtraktor; Mar. 3, 2009, 03:46 PM.

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    • #22
      Originally posted by fordtraktor View Post
      This is not legal advice, just experience as this is how our family will is drafted.

      In many states you can incorporate another document in your will. The benefit to incorporating another document is that you can change the other document without changing your will. This is very useful if, for example, one of your horses dies or you buy a new horse -- and you can alter where the horses go without paying a lawyer to redo the will.

      Of course, we always ask before doling out the horses on paper. It can lead to rather funny "if we all died in a plane crash, would you want Dobbin?" conversations.

      Of course, before you attempt to do this talk to an estate planning lawyer and make sure it would be valid in your state.
      In TX, you add thru a codicil any changes you want made to your original will, so you don't have to change your whole will every time your circumstances change a little, like adding a provision for a new animal.
      Those still have to be done correctly.

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      • #23
        I do this for clients all the time. As always on these 'legal' threads, there is some good information........ but also some 'not so good.' Just as a for instance, I would generally NOT name specific horses in your document but something more generic, like 'any and all horses owned by me at the time of my death.' Otherwise, if you buy or sell your current horse and get another you'd probably need to redo the document.

        As someone else mentioned, a trust is the most appropriate vehicle, and you would be best served getting assistance from someone who is both well versed in estate planning AND knows about the costs and details associated with the care of horses.

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        • #24
          Originally posted by Bluey View Post
          In TX, you add thru a codicil any changes you want made to your original will, so you don't have to change your whole will every time your circumstances change a little, like adding a provision for a new animal.
          Those still have to be done correctly.
          Sorry, Bluey, you are right about the will -- the document you can use to incorporate future documents is a trust. So if you have a pour-over will that pours your estate into a trust, you can incorporate a list of personal property into the trust and change it in the future as you please (in many states).

          I corrected my initial comment as well.

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          • #25
            Originally posted by Bluey View Post
            In TX, you add thru a codicil any changes you want made to your original will, so you don't have to change your whole will every time your circumstances change a little, like adding a provision for a new animal.
            Those still have to be done correctly.
            This is how my lawer had me do the horses, dog, cat, cars, tractor and hay stuff. I have a letter that goes with my will that says what horses go to what person, who the dog goes too, you get the point!. I go in the his office each time I get a new something or some thing passes on with a new letter sign it there and it goes in the valt with my will.

            I also have life In. 1/2 goes to the person taking care of my stuff to send me home to Ireland forever and the other 1/2 goes to the person that gets most of my horses to take care of them. The horse that can be sold goes back to the person I got him from and they will get the money from his sale
            AilleXWest
            www.gypsystoychest.com Adult Toys and Home partys

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            • #26
              The only thing that is enforceable by law is an honorary trust for animals. The rest is just hoping the right things is done.

              Honorary trusts for animals are new--about 2006 in most states. So if you planed before that you may not have been able to to use one or your lawyer may not have known about them.

              Otherwise, you lose all rights to control personal property after you die. I do not trust anyone. Sad, but true. I am a control freak about my animals in life and I plan to be one in death too.

              What if my animals were fed Gravy Train or Tractor supply All Phase? AHhhHHHHH

              I am getting old. Thus, most of my trusted friends are also old. No telling who dies first and if there is an accident while traveling or something unexpected they are likely to be with me and die too! And of course no 2 animal people ever agree on anything, so I want my way to be the only way until he day they all die.

              It is great so many people are planning. Because like the OP said, its not a gift--its a liability.

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              • #27
                Thanks. I will ask my friend next time if I need to change anything, with the new information you provided.

                I do trust those I designate to do what is right and my animals to do ok, as I have trained them so they can adapt to whatever the new circumstances may bring for them.

                I think that we should do our best to see that they are cared well, but we can't do more than that, because we can't foresee what the circumstances may be after we are gone.

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                • Original Poster

                  #28
                  Ah, the project begins - tomorrow: researching more about trusts.

                  On the mention of executors, if I might say, having been one a couple years ago, it is a mighty tough job. I spent every single day for six months making phone calls (to the lawyer, to banks, to realtors, to this that and the other organizations), filling out forms, faxing, mailing, scanning, dealing with hostile family members, dealing with creditors, paying hospital bills (they bill in fifty cent increments, spread out over months!!!), etc. Although the estate officially closed after six months, ongoing minor stuff trickled on for another year and a half.

                  Point being, I would never appoint anyone as executor except a professional who offers that service.

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                  • #29
                    Originally posted by equinelaw View Post
                    The only thing that is enforceable by law is an honorary trust for animals. The rest is just hoping the right things is done.

                    This is what we have for our creatures.
                    I Loff My Quarter Horse & I love Fenway Bartholomule cliques

                    Just somebody with a positive outlook on life...go ahead...hate me for that.

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                    • #30
                      An honorary trust for animals is just as fallible as the next thing. Unless YOU are there, you are not going to be able to control the details. Just because people have a legal obligation to do something does not mean they will actually do it, or that anyone else will care enough to go after them if they don't -- particularly if the claim is something like "Trustee is no longer feeding deceased owner's preferred brand of dog food."

                      I only entrust horses to people that I know will do what is best for them, even if that comes down to finding the horse a new home. But I realize I am lucky to have people I trust.

                      The gift v. burden issue depends on the horse. A toothless old horse is a burden. Most horse people would be hard-pressed to say a winning A circuit horse is not a gift, though, particularly if you make an effort to give that kind of horse to someone who can use it.

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                      • #31
                        A trust is enforceable in court. Nothing else is. If the trustee is caught not doing what the trust instructs then a judge will find a new trustee and punish the old one. I find comfort in that.

                        It do think a trust should include funds for some kind of inspector to check up on trustees since the horses cannot go to court, but I see that as a good thing because its a whole new career opening up for animal lovers. Guardian ad litem for animals.

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                        • #32
                          Glad you have more faith in the legal system than my cynical old self does! My general sense is that overworked judges would be annoyed to see such a case unless the animals were actually being abused. Hope you are right!

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                          • #33
                            Originally posted by fordtraktor View Post
                            Glad you have more faith in the legal system than my cynical old self does! My general sense is that overworked judges would be annoyed to see such a case unless the animals were actually being abused. Hope you are right!
                            I just have slightly more faith in the legal system then I do in my friends I may just have crappy friends, but I honestly do not trust anyone I know with a few hundred grand and my animals. Its too easy to rationalize and excuse to get rid of the animal and keep the cash.

                            But frankly, I am exposed to some not very nice people more often them most so I may just be jaded. But sometimes when my own damn dog wakes me up at 2:00 am because he hears rain 40 miles away, I wonder if I wouldn't trade him in for $100K. I do not even trust me!

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                            • #34
                              Have no faith in the legal system, not a bit. We are in the process of trying to probate my fathers will. We are learning that his 2000 Will and Georgia law allows for unchecked interpretation by the sitting probate judge as to how and when to distribute the estate.

                              Your best bet, leave the horses out of the will. Leave a lump sum to a friend for their upkeep and take it from there.

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                              • #35
                                Originally posted by twofatponies View Post
                                Does anyone have what to do with their horses specified in their will? .


                                Assuming if you don't they would be sold as an asset of your property or automatically go to your beneficiary.
                                Mine go to nominated beneficiaries

                                Does anyone specify that their horse should be sold/given to a specific person other than the normal beneficiary/other?
                                No

                                Mine are split between my wife and daughters but with a couple going to friends and one to an employee. What they choose to do with them is up to them.

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                                • #36
                                  Originally posted by SLW View Post
                                  Have no faith in the legal system, not a bit. We are in the process of trying to probate my fathers will. We are learning that his 2000 Will and Georgia law allows for unchecked interpretation by the sitting probate judge as to how and when to distribute the estate.

                                  Your best bet, leave the horses out of the will. Leave a lump sum to a friend for their upkeep and take it from there.
                                  That's how it works. If the will is not done right, then your intent is not taken into consideration. Some people use trusts instead of will to avoid probate. I can't say I blame them.

                                  Doing a will wrong can just be singing in the wrong place or the wring order.

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