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Space Shuttle Disaster

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  • #81
    I can understand that people have the same feelings of shocked disbelief that the country felt on 9/11. Both of these incidents happened at about 9:00 a.m. eastern time. But there is no comparison beyond that. Today was a horrible mishap in the name of discovery and world unification; the other was a deliberate act of heinous barbarism mastermided by creatures who shall certainly burn in Hades.

    I clearly remember Challenger Day; it is hard for me to ever forget it: January 28, 1986. Two years later, on January 28, 1988, I was married.

    Sadly, fate would say that it appears that the fifth week of any new year is not a good time for space travel.

    Prayers and jingles to the family and friends of the noble astronauts [saluting smilie]

    ~<>~ COTHBB Leather Care Guru~<>~
    ~Member of the *Horse Vans Rock* clique~

    Comment


    • #82
      It is so so sad. The mother of one of my best friend's at school grew up with and was still friends with Laurel Clark. This was a very sad day for all the family and friends of those lost. My prayers are with them.

      ~Sarah~


      ~Disgruntled College Students Clique~Georgia Clique~Junior Clique (Can I please still be a member?? )~ Buckle Bunnies

      [This message was edited by ~SC~ on Feb. 02, 2003 at 01:22 AM.]
      ~Disgruntled College Students Clique~Georgia Clique~

      Comment


      • #83
        What a horrible loss. It was the main conversation down here as well. My heart goes out to all involved.

        I won't get into relating this to 9/11, but everyone must keep in mind all the positive flights that have been made by the Space Shuttles. This was a horrible accident, but while it is so publicised and heartbreaking we must not lose hope. There have been many successful space flights before this, and there will be many flights in the future that will land amidst cheers.

        As Reed so eloquently put it
        "these folks were working on things that will benefit ALL of us someday. They gave their lives in an endeavour that will hopefully save many more in the future."

        You guys as Americans owe it to yourselves to buck up, be proud of your country, be proud of the sacrifice these men and women made for all of us, and mourn with dignity. No 'woe is me', no 'our country can't catch a break', live a life that would have made these astronauts proud. Heck, maybe even become one yourself!

        And that's coming from a Canadian living in Oz

        Alixe

        Comment


        • #84
          <BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by fernie fox:
          Eternal Father Strong to Save.

          Somebody asked for the words to be posted earlier today.Here they are,if you can stand it, listen to it being sung by the Navy Choir,click on the link at the bottom of the page.

          Over the years, I have heard additional verses for the Air Force and Army added.But these are the original words and tune.

          I grew up with this wonderful hymn,and it always brings tears to my eyes.

          http://www.cyberhymnal.org/htm/e/t/eternalf.htm


          God Bless all involved in this Tragedy.

          fernie fox
          "I have lived my life-it is nearly done-.I have played the game all round;But I freely admit that the best of my fun I owe it to Horse and Hound".<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

          I also belong to two music lists - one a hymn list, and the other, Anglican Musicians. Between them, they added three verses to the Navy hymn to include men and women in space:

          <BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR> Lord, guard and guide all those who fly
          through depths of space up in the sky.
          Be with them ever in the air,
          in darkened cloud or sunlight fair;
          please listen when we lift our prayer
          for those in peril on the air!

          Aloft in solitude of space,
          uphold them with your loving grace.
          For you support with tender might
          the soaring birds, where e’er their flight.
          Lord, if the fiery winds be near,
          may those who know you, have no fear.

          O God who names the starry host
          and by whose love not one is lost,
          who stretched your arms wide to the sky
          from cross to heav’n so death would die:
          now care for those who travelled space,
          embrace them now who touch your face.


          Verse 3 Copyright © 2003 by Vincent Uher

          <HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

          If you do not know the music, do use Fernie's link - it is a dark and beautiful tune.

          It's OUT! Linda Allen's 101 Exercises for Jumping co-authored by MOI!!!
          co-author of 101 Jumping Exercises & The Rider's Fitness Program; Soon to come: Dead Ringer - a tale of equine mystery and intrique! Former Moderator!

          Comment


          • #85
            A sad day for for all.

            I grew up on Cape Canaveral (Merritt Island). I've watched lots of rockets go up (and some come down before their time). I've always admired the NASA organization for their endless pursuit of knowledge.

            God bless the crew, their families, and the NASA family.

            Comment


            • #86
              I can't believe this. I just saw on the news where some people are trying to sell Space Shuttle parts on EBAY!!

              This totally disgusts me. I can't understand how some people will try to make a buck off someone else's tragedy.

              "Ladies and gentlemen, take my advice. Pull down your pants and slide on the ice." quote from the tv series M*A*S*H
              Visit my farm at www.hiddenrockfarm.com

              Comment


              • #87
                That is so nasty, Applesauce!

                Besides the fact that everyone has been ASKED to NOT touch the stuff.

                Methinks the army/powers that be probably have that covered though. Hopefully, they're breaking some law and can be nailed for their greed, etc.

                "I can justify anything!"
                \"Riding a horse is not a gentle hobby, to be picked up and laid down like a game of solitaire. It is a grand passion. It seizes a person whole and, once it has done so, he will have to accept that his life will be radically changed.\" -- Ralph Waldo E

                Comment


                • #88
                  I read some statistics a couple of years ago, from NASA itself, that predict a catastrophe like this every 30 or 40 missions. You've got to have some real dedication to the job to do something that has such inherent risk.

                  So, I don't see the point in feeling like the US can't catch a break, since I'm sure these folks knew very well that they might not come back. It's a risk they chose to take, and one WE chose to accept when we decided that spending billions on the space program was a good idea. (Like somebody else suggested, if you're feeling sorry for yourself, go read about the Afghan women we "liberated" last year--the ones who still get executed for imaginary crimes against an intolerable right-wing religious code.)

                  Maybe this is a good opportunity to debate the wisdom of that investment. Funders and researchers keep promising that we'll "all benefit someday," but who is this science really for? It has not improved public health (in fact, it's a public health problem in Texas right now, what with the toxic waste having been spewed around the state), it has not improved public transportation, has not given us better gas mileage in our cars, has not solved problems of inadequate housing, has not helped people suffering from famine and starvation, has not cured AIDS or Alzheimers. It sure is helping the bottom line of the big contractors, though. Is space research just a big defense welfare project, or has it made YOUR life tangibly better? Why doesn't NASA explain better the public benefit of space research? You hardly ever hear just HOW flying experiments around in space helps us, but you DO hear a lot about defense contractors and their piece of the economy. Seems like a discussion worth having, in my opinion.

                  Sure, we've got Teflon now, but if "making life easier for women" had been a federal research priority in the 50s and 60s over "let's show those Russkies who's the man, and divert public attention from Vietnam" we would have had Teflon pots and pans decades earlier.

                  Comment


                  • #89
                    Well said, Hobson!
                    I feel sorry for those who died and for their families as I would for anyone who died in an accident, but I would rather see us as a nation take our highest pride in how we help our sick and needy and our environment.

                    Comment


                    • #90
                      Hobson and Mika,

                      I think you need to look into what has come out of the space program in terms of medical benefits. One of the more obvious is the monitoring of the astronauts vital signs. The technology that was originally developed by/for NASA has been implemented at hospitals around the word, particulalry in ICU units.

                      The earth studies done by the shuttle missions have uncovered many interesting facts about the environment that completely contradicted the prevalent theories of the time. Without the shuttle program the Hubble and the wealth of knowledge derived from it about our own beginnings would have dies out almost twenty years ago.

                      The things that have been learned via the space program that are utilized by the meidical and environmental sectors are too inumerable to list.

                      Now, to make this horse related. Where did you think velcro came from and how would your horse life be without it? The space program is a natural extension of the pioneering element of mankind. To turn away from space exporation would be a tradegy and certainly make us a very parochial (sp?) race.

                      "I'd be more tactful, if I were wrong."

                      Comment


                      • #91
                        For a good summary of the experiments on the shuttle (I'm sure there were also classified projects that might not sound so humanitarian):
                        shuttle experiments

                        When physicist Richard Feynman testified in the Challenger hearings that NASA had made a series of stistical blunders and faulty risk assessments regarding the shuttle. Basically, NASA had chosen to ignore statistical science althogether, which, Feyman said, resulted in "a kind of Russian Roulette". The shuttle flies with minor damage (like minimal O-ring erosion), and returns safe. "Then," Feynman said "It is suggested, therefore, that the risk is no longer so high for the next flights. We can lower our standards a little bit because we got away with it last time. You got away with it, but it shouldn't be done over and over again like that."

                        Feynman's analysis may be valid in this explosion:
                        NASA reportedly ignored safety warnings

                        Feynman concluded his report with "For a successful technology, reality must take precedence over public relations, for nature cannot be fooled."

                        Comment


                        • #92
                          <BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by hobson:
                          I read some statistics a couple of years ago, from NASA itself, that predict a catastrophe like this every 30 or 40 missions. You've got to have some real dedication to the job to do something that has such inherent risk.

                          So, I don't see the point in feeling like the US can't catch a break, since I'm sure these folks knew very well that they might not come back. It's a risk they chose to take, and one WE chose to accept when we decided that spending billions on the space program was a good idea. (Like somebody else suggested, if you're feeling sorry for yourself, go read about the Afghan women we "liberated" last year--the ones who still get executed for imaginary crimes against an intolerable right-wing religious code.)

                          Maybe this is a good opportunity to debate the wisdom of that investment. Funders and researchers keep promising that we'll "all benefit someday," but who is this science really for? It has not improved public health (in fact, it's a public health problem in Texas right now, what with the toxic waste having been spewed around the state), it has not improved public transportation, has not given us better gas mileage in our cars, has not solved problems of inadequate housing, has not helped people suffering from famine and starvation, has not cured AIDS or Alzheimers. It sure is helping the bottom line of the big contractors, though. Is space research just a big defense welfare project, or has it made YOUR life tangibly better? Why doesn't NASA explain better the public benefit of space research? You hardly ever hear just HOW flying experiments around in space helps us, but you DO hear a lot about defense contractors and their piece of the economy. Seems like a discussion worth having, in my opinion.

                          Sure, we've got Teflon now, but if "making life easier for women" had been a federal research priority in the 50s and 60s over "let's show those Russkies who's the man, and divert public attention from Vietnam" we would have had Teflon pots and pans decades earlier.<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>
                          Hobson,
                          don't know about anyone else, but I'm still mourning, so for me an analysis or debate regarding public policy is a day or two away. But one thing in your post that did strike a cord with me and compelled me to reply is that much of the arguement, and I paraphrase so my undestanding of your idea that unless citizens can buy a "product" which is directly downstream of investment money is wrong...I may be wrong. But I drew an analogy from your argument to Agriculture and the research which goes on in that sector...the average citizen is not aware of the benefits yeilded by such work. And the benefits are diverse going from a safer food supply(compared to the global food record), to animal welfare(beyond toys for hogs), to cheap food. Like in the flic "The Tale Wagging the Dog" where someone said, if you do the job right (think they were talking about plumbing), no one knows you're alive, but when there is a problem, &lt;then&gt; they know you're out there. No doubt I skewed things. I don't feel like discussing Afgan women's trials in the same breath as our Space Program and this that and the other today. It may be a good thought, Hobson, maybe just not today.
                          very gently, June
                          \"The world\'s greatest achievements often happen on the edge of chaos\"

                          Comment


                          • #93
                            9-11 was a day of shock and pain, and our country felt numbed by the prospect of a terrorist attack against the country we love so dearly.

                            The explosion of the Columbia was a horrible occurance and a heart-wrenching tragedy. However, it is that; something that no one expected to happen, but remember the crew knew they were taking a risk the moment they stepped onto that shuttle; it's a risk all astronauts take.

                            The people who were killed during 9-11 were just going to work, doing their duty-- there was no risk that they were aware of aside from the common day-to-day risks we all face.

                            The explosion of the Columbia was horrible, and I do not mean to belittle that fact at all. Though, 9-11 and this are two very seperate occurances, and I don't think they should be compared as being alike.

                            God Bless the crew and families. I cannot imagine what the families of the crew members are going through.

                            *********
                            We ride and never worry about the fall ..
                            I guess that's just the cowboy in us all.
                            (Tim McGraw, "The Cowboy in Me")
                            *********
                            We ride and never worry about the fall ..
                            I guess that's just the cowboy in us all.
                            (Tim McGraw, "The Cowboy in Me")

                            Comment


                            • #94
                              and thank you to Weatherford and Fernie Fox for the beautiful hymn.
                              My heart is filled with sadness at the loss of these bright, wonderful, exceptional, young people.
                              My sincere condolences to their families and friends.
                              Gail
                              A Fine Romance. April 1991 - June 2016. Loved forever.

                              Comment


                              • #95
                                Thanks for posting, those of you who have been close to the space program and people in it!

                                Thanks, especially, to RAyers, whose closeness to the situation makes his posts especially valuable.

                                It's OUT! Linda Allen's 101 Exercises for Jumping co-authored by MOI!!!
                                co-author of 101 Jumping Exercises & The Rider's Fitness Program; Soon to come: Dead Ringer - a tale of equine mystery and intrique! Former Moderator!

                                Comment


                                • #96
                                  JER, Hobson and Mika,

                                  There appears to be some great ignorance about the benefits of NASA. While you all may expect these GREAT discoveries to suddenly appear, that is simply not the case. Let's go back to the Apollo Program and what came out of it. Take a look at what you are doing now. That computer you are working on, the transistors that make it run, where do you think they came from? The Apollo missions needed compact computers for the avionics and so microcircuitry was developed which is now in every piece of electronic equipment we use in our lives.

                                  Other materials? How do you think you car gets such good gas mileage now? NASA had to develop lightweight metals and plastics in order to get men to the moon. Some of these are used by the auto industry to make lighter cars. Air bags? Same place.

                                  The titanium used in hip replacements was developed originally for the space program.

                                  As for direct medical benefits? What about heart monitors and other biosensors that are in common use in EVERY hospital. The technology was created by NASA in order to monitor the astronaut's health while in orbit or on the way to the moon.

                                  Your cell phone? How do you think it knows where you are in the US when somebody calls? NASA developed tracking technologies in order to track deep space probes and to be able to communicate with orbiting space craft. That is the same technology (in terms of software) used to find you and your phone.

                                  Understanding disease? Astronauts undergo osteoporosis in orbit. We are experimenting with new drugs that show great promise to reverse the effects of osteoporosis and flew on STS-112 with an experiment funded by Amgen. Elghund2 has also listed other things.

                                  Again, I am working with a drug in space that we are currently investigating for use in HORSES!!!!!!!!!

                                  NASA's budget $3billion. What is the cost of a B-2 bomber? Over $2billion each. The economic return of investment in NASA can be upwards of 15-1!!!!! NASA is NOT a military arm. It is purely commercial thus NO secret experiments are flown. As a matter of fact the Shuttle program and the space station are in the process of being privatized (American Space Alliance)!!!!

                                  Berfore you take a shot at what we do, I suggest doing a bit of investigation first.

                                  Reed

                                  [This message was edited by RAyers on Feb. 02, 2003 at 03:57 PM.]

                                  Comment


                                  • #97
                                    RAyers, I have said nothing against the benefits of NASA's work. In fact, I believe that NASA is woefully underfunded.

                                    Comment


                                    • #98
                                      I think my point, RAyers, is that science is not an unapproachable holy grail from which all good things come. (most cars get terrible gas mileage, by the way--and we had the technology in the 1940s to get 40 miles to the gallon.) It's obvious to everyone that there have been technological spinoffs from the space program. But we didn't need space to get these products--they were made HERE; it's not like they were mined from outer space. Science is political, and political decisions were made to funnel research money into developing titanium for space first instead of for bicycles and medical equipment. We didn't need spaceships to get titanium--sometimes I wonder if people think that the astronauts actually brought it back from the moon, as though it could never otherwise have existed outside of a space program. Perhaps if heart patients' concerns were of higher national priority than getting people into space, we could have had heart monitors sooner. WHy can't we ask questions about science and its priorities? I think it's important for the public to know where their money is going, who is making the decisions, and who gets to play in the space sandbox.

                                      Comment


                                      • #99
                                        We did need space ships to get titanium.

                                        The challenges of space prompt researchers and engineers to create solutions to problems that don't exist in gravity. It forces them to create whole new approaches. Frequently, those new approaches result in advances in materials science. Once the discovery is made, scientists and engineers apply them to terrestrial problems. It is unlikely that without the forcing function of the extreme problems posed by the space environment, these discoveries would be made in the same timeline or in the same way. It is the difference between evolutionary and revolutionary improvement.

                                        The vitality of our commercial sector, as well as our national security owe a huge debt to the space program.

                                        By the way, the space program also gave us velcro......

                                        Comment


                                        • I have a question for RAyers:

                                          I once heard in a speech that the mission that was scheduled after the Challenger was to take something like 42 lbs of plutonium into space (then it was cancelled). The same speech claimed that large quantities of plutonium had been aboard some shuttles in the late 1990s, and that if something were to happen to those specific shuttles, the results could have been even more catastrophic.

                                          Is there any validity to this? I really don't know much about it...

                                          Thank you.

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