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horse slaughter regulations

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  • #81
    I'm not shooting any messenger.

    There seems to be a perception that if one does not believe what HSUS puts out - it is because one reads and believes what the Center for Consumer Freedom puts out. I disagreed.

    I was merely saying that I don't have my opinions force fed to me by special interest groups. I form my own. Independently and apolitically.

    My employment history is my business.
    Brothers and sisters, I bid you beware
    Of giving your heart to a dog to tear.
    -Rudyard Kipling

    Comment


    • #82
      Originally posted by Bluey View Post
      I can't say it as well as JSwan, but will ask, if you do work thru some non-profit group, then you yourself should know better about groups like HSUS and such others.

      To try to shoot the messenger down still doesn't mean the message is not true.

      Is the HSUS maybe who you work for?

      Bluey, I do not work for a not-for-profit, I am on the board of directors, which is all volunteers. I decline to specify which org, since I am expressing my personal opinions here and am not acting as a representative for the NFP, but it is a local org, and not the HSUS or an HSUS affiliate.

      JSwan, your points are well taken, thanks.
      Fear is the rocket sauce.
      Jack Black

      Comment


      • #83
        Sorry JSWan, I was not talking to you and you are right no one should be asked, it is no one's business what someone else's private life is.

        My words asking that poster were joking and because she had offered she worked with/for a non-profit.
        I didn't expect an answer to that.

        Divide and conquer has always helped win battles, here for the rights we still have to own and use our animals, our horses.

        Comment


        • #84
          Most people would be horrified if they knew half the story behind the food chain, especially the inhumanity of the factory slaughter line. It was enough to change my eating habits.

          And contrary to a couple of oft repeated opinions here, most people are for humane slaughter of all animals, believe that the system we have in place is sorely lacking and are not part of some whack job extremist group. It makes it much easier to discount and ridicule anyone who questions the slaughter process if you slap the label of extremism on them.

          I would support equine processing if it were specifically set up for equines and it were small enough and regulated enough to provide humane ends. I think every community needs their local processing plant, the key being small, easily regulated and humane.

          Comment


          • #85
            I don't know on anyone not for humane treatment and slaughter of animals.
            Quality doesn\'t cost it pays.

            Comment


            • #86
              Originally posted by pandorasboxx View Post
              Most people would be horrified if they knew half the story behind the food chain, especially the inhumanity of the factory slaughter line. It was enough to change my eating habits.

              And contrary to a couple of oft repeated opinions here, most people are for humane slaughter of all animals, believe that the system we have in place is sorely lacking and are not part of some whack job extremist group. It makes it much easier to discount and ridicule anyone who questions the slaughter process if you slap the label of extremism on them.

              I would support equine processing if it were specifically set up for equines and it were small enough and regulated enough to provide humane ends. I think every community needs their local processing plant, the key being small, easily regulated and humane.
              Again, have you been to slaughter plants?
              Or are you going by what others, that don't work in the industry, don't really understand what they are talking about are telling you?
              If so, why are their words any more accurate than those of the ones that have been there, send their animals there and KNOW what the conditions are?

              People can choose to believe who they want, but if I wanted to be informed about any one topic, I would not try to tell others that KNOW from direct experience, what I know from reading or hearing others tell about it.

              Comment


              • #87
                I work in slaughter plants of every size the conditions are not what the extremists from either side say they are. Their not perfect by any means and their not what you read in books or see on videos. Mistakes are made but their the exception not at all the rule. Some plants are way better then others are some are way worse, the majority are in between. The slaughter industry is no different then any other is as far as things like that go. Its run by people and peopler make mistakes. The whole thing is called reality.
                Quality doesn\'t cost it pays.

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                • #88
                  Originally posted by ZiggyStardust View Post
                  There are many people who believe that if everyone observed certain respect and right of care for animals that animal welfare organizations would not be needed. "Welfare" care often means trying to clean up a problem that's already been created. People who rail against "animal rights" groups are often the same people who rail against the governments human "welfare" programs. Truly, it is much more cost effective to use prevention via "animal rights" than using band-aids in "animal welfare". For 99% of services animal welfare organizations provide, we would be grateful to be put out of business if people no longer abused, abandoned, or irresponsibly bred animals.
                  Now I'll jump into the fray. Animal welfare is not only my volunteering passion, it is my job and it is something I studied for advanced degrees. (I say this so you know where I'm coming from).

                  "certain respect and right of care for animals" has nothing to do with the animal rights movement. The animal rights movement believes that animals are on an even playing field with humans and that by owning or keeping them, we're subjugating them to slavery. Boiling down the animal rights rhetoric, basically they believe that no one should own animals or use them for any purpose. This means no food, no clothing, no medical advances, no nothing coming from animals. This means domestic breeds and species go extinct because humans no longer "interfere" with them.

                  The animal welfare movement promotes humane care for all animals. This includes humane care for pet cats and dogs, feral animals, wild animals, meat and fiber animals, and lab animals. I agree that if we followed the animal rights groups, we wouldn't need animal welfare - but that's because we would not be keeping nor living with animals.

                  Many people object to groups like PETA, HSUS, ALF, etc. because those groups purport on some level to promote humane care of animals. However if you follow their deeper message, they're actually pushing an animal rights' agenda (some more so than others - ALF is pretty frightening). Those of us who ride horses, enjoy sleeping with a cat curled up next to us, go running with our dogs, eat meat, or use any medication or surgical procedures to extend our lives or make them more livable object to eliminating all animal influence in our lives.

                  The distrinction between animal rights and animal welfare is often misunderstood. However, it is a significant distinction with many far-reaching implications for our lives.
                  Visit us at Bluebonnet Equine Humane Society - www.bluebonnetequine.org

                  Want to get involved in rescue or start your own? Check out How to Start a Horse Rescue - www.howtostartarescue.com

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                  • Original Poster

                    #89
                    Realize this post has gone in a different direction. But something I realized when I was told I was an idiot and that my opinion was completely malinformed, is that HR 503 - the one that passed through Congress - was never signed into law to actually ban slaughter. It's only Illinois and Texas that did state laws banning it??? This had been really shaping my opinion and making me wonder how all these states were going to change the federal ban, but really why would you not think that something that passed through Congress did not become law - an honest mistake.

                    However, I am also told adamantly by the person calling me an idiot that the U.S. is importing horse meat to feed zoo animals and that the three slaughter plants are not doing any horses at all even for non-human consumption. I can't find anything in the USDA website about this. How can I find out if this is true?

                    I think there were some posts previously with people calling people uninformed and blah, blah, blah. But seriously it is really hard to find the truth on the internet. Every website has an agenda and some seem to have references for their information so how can you find what is real to get an opinion where people don't call you an idiot.

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                    • #90
                      Why don't you just ask the person where they got their information about the US importing horsemeat? Maybe then we can help you verify it so you can get back to that person?

                      I was thinking that maybe there is some reason for a threatened species in a zoo or research facility might have to eat a particular source of protein..... but I'm pretty doggone sure CITES would apply. That would be a pretty expensive import as it ain't easy to legally import exotic species into the US. American trappers have to affix a CITES tag to pelts even if they do not intend to export the pelt. It's pretty tightly controlled.

                      In a zoo/conservation/research facility that was performing research or studies or something - I can picture a scenario where they have a need for meat from a particular source/species. Other than that.... I'm wracking my brain and I just can't think of anything. Anything that is legal, anyway.

                      I agree it's hard to find the truth on the Internet.

                      Effectively there is a "ban" on slaughter because the plants that processed horses for human consumption closed. But there really is no ban.

                      I think it would be more accurate to say horse slaughter for human consumption has ceased in the US. For now. Since the plants closed all horses must be transported for much greater distances and out of our jurisdiction. We no longer have any control over how they are slaughtered or if it is humane or not. The plants in the US and Canada do operate under EU regulations - except for certain plants in Mexico that feed the meat to Mexican citizens. Those plants are where the "pithing" videos come from. The EU plants to not use that method.

                      Any state is free to pass its own laws that would permit or ban the slaughter of horses for human consumption.

                      The only way to stop horse slaughter in the entire country would be to enact a federal ban.

                      Then the problem would be how to keep horses from being transported across the border for slaughter.
                      Brothers and sisters, I bid you beware
                      Of giving your heart to a dog to tear.
                      -Rudyard Kipling

                      Comment


                      • #91
                        Originally posted by emaren View Post
                        However, I am also told adamantly by the person calling me an idiot that the U.S. is importing horse meat to feed zoo animals and that the three slaughter plants are not doing any horses at all even for non-human consumption. I can't find anything in the USDA website about this. How can I find out if this is true?
                        You can also ask this question here: http://forums.delphiforums.com/alexbrown/messages

                        Scroll down on the left to the section entitled: Anti-Slaughter Issues - US
                        Proud owner of a Slaughter-Bound TB from a feedlot, and her surprise baby...!
                        http://i42.photobucket.com/albums/e350/Jen4USC/fave.jpg
                        http://i42.photobucket.com/albums/e3...SC/running.jpg

                        Comment


                        • #92
                          Originally posted by emaren View Post
                          I think there were some posts previously with people calling people uninformed and blah, blah, blah. But seriously it is really hard to find the truth on the internet. Every website has an agenda and some seem to have references for their information so how can you find what is real to get an opinion where people don't call you an idiot.
                          It is hard to find the truth in real life too!

                          But in general, this whole animal rights thing is a bit of a paradox. I mean you want to give the most comfort you can to animals. If they are born and raised for slaughter-so be it-at least do it humanely. When done in a smaller scale, these animals have a "life" to the end. But on the other hand, I eat out and so I probably eat exclusively factory farmed meat. Like most folks I don't think about it! I don't how it is done in the modern world-probably much better now.

                          Also with animals, one man's pet is another's food or fur or shoes. So I guess it is going to be that way. But still I try and undertsand and can't grasp where the AR person is coming from. You love animals and it enriches your life and yet you would be willing to rid them from this planet so they don't suffer? Humans suffer too and do dastradly things all the time. Does it mean we need to stop having kids and vanish?

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