horse slaughter regulations

[Bluey]

Because it's relevant to the conversation.




Maybe they did not know they were being videoed? Seems a bit obvious doesn't it? Do you really believe these inspectors see everything that go on or care? You really are naive to believe that.

Go read the book if you are open minded enough. If not, continue along in your fantasy world of utopic slaughterhouses and happy unstressed animals going peacefully down the assembly line and conscientious workers doing their job right every time and management that cares more about the animals welfare than their own bottom line. Yeh right...dream on...

You will believe a hatched job type book, HSUS videos and stories, over what people say, that have been living and working with cattle most of their lives, seeing what REALLY happens?

[Ridge Runner]

You will believe a hatched job type book, HSUS videos and stories, over what people say, that have been living and working with cattle most of their lives, seeing what REALLY happens?

A hatched job book... Go read it and then get back to me. LOL. BTW...it's not just about cattle.

[county]

I've read it and found it to be not real accurate in most areas.

[Bluey]

A hatched job book... Go read it and then get back to me. LOL. BTW...it's not just about cattle.

You may not even realize how society, especially today, in this information age, make caricatures of what people are and do.

If you listed to what is reported all day long, brainwashing us, all priests and teachers molest children, doctors kill patients, policemen beat suspects, lawyers cheat clients, you name, someone, somewhere finds someone doing terribly wrong.
That is what makes the news, that is what people want to hear, the rotten, dirty underneath of any people do wrong.
Somehow, since people are voyeurs of the ugly and horrible, that is so much of what we are given when we tell stories.

Now bring slaughter, that in itself is gruesome by nature and you get a field day for those that tell those stories, full of myths and exagerations to capture the imagination of the most staid and reasonable person.

When those videos were all over TV in the news, every one I know in the cattle business was mad, more mad that any of you can ever be or imagine, that don't know a cow from a bicicle, to whom a cow is a cow is a cow.
To us a cow is an individual, it is like seeing your friends and family and neighbor's being abused.
To all of us, that caring for our cattle is what we live for, to see them abused as they were was reason to beat someone up and I hope those men got what they deserve.

I know people that handle cattle don't do such, other than, if they were not paid to do it, those people were the sorriest employers you could find, that would do that and I am sure were fired and will never find work around cattle again, I hope.

No one, no matter what they do in life, can say that no one ever does wrong, with livestock, including horses, we KNOW there are people that abuse them, but it is NOT the norm.

We are losing the battle against those few fanatic extremist animal rights people, that have the money to have the fancy PR to convince people like you.
ALL of us are losing that battle, where no one of us will have ANY animals left to care for and enjoy, because so many are listening to those, like the one that wrote the book you mention, the HSUS out of context videos and stories and all other propaganda out there now for longer than a generation.

Fine, we want a world where animals will live in preserves only, humans live sterile lives?
Guess that is where we are headed.
When it comes to humans using animals, we can't just be a little pregnant, we either accept that we will use them, as the renewable, natural resource they have been for us all these years, or if that is not considered ethical, we will just have to give all our use of animals up.
Animals either have rights to live as they evolved in nature and we don't have any rights to them, or we do have a natural right to use them and should not be forbidden to do so by some radicals with little sense of how the world works.

Now, again, lets don't let those animal righst nuts confuse USE with ABUSE in our minds, as they do constantly.
Of course NO ONE is wanting to see any abuse.

Lets work to see that we can use our animals with proper care, according to the animal they are.
I think that the majority of us do just that.

[Ridge Runner]

I've read it and found it to be not real accurate in most areas.

So why aren't you eating meat from the slaughterhouses? Yum yum!

I would imagine that the truth is somewhere in the middle...the book's version versus the pro slaughter propaganda that Bluey spouts about how wondrously nice it is and pleasant for the animals and the workers but even if the reality is in the middle...that is too many live animals going down the line or being mishandled for what I find acceptable and too much filthy contaminated meat getting into the food chain. Support the industry if you want to but I'll buy my meat locally that I know was humanely raised and slaughtered.

[Ridge Runner]

Y
We are losing the battle against those few fanatic extremist animal rights people, that have the money to have the fancy PR to convince people like you.

I am only responding in part to your rants as you pretty much keep repeating yourself over and over as if you hope someone will believe you...but I am not a fanatical animal rights advocate...I don't belong to PETA nor do I read them, I don't contribute to HSUS or any other group and I eat meat. I do however believe that the way the meat animals are raised and handled reflect directly on our race and right now, we are failing badly. I refuse to eat what comes out of those plants too and I will not support factory farming in any way at all by buying their products. If that upsets you, than too bad...go rant at someone who cares what you think.

[Bluey]

I am only responding in part to your rants as you pretty much keep repeating yourself over and over as if you hope someone will believe you...but I am not a fanatical animal rights advocate...I don't belong to PETA nor do I read them, I don't contribute to HSUS or any other group and I eat meat. I do however believe that the way the meat animals are raised and handled reflect directly on our race and right now, we are failing badly. I refuse to eat what comes out of those plants too and I will not support factory farming in any way at all by buying their products. If that upsets you, than too bad...go rant at someone who cares what you think.

Nope, doesn't upset me that you do exactly as you want to do, would not expect, much less demand any different, from anyone.

I do think that you did swallow their fearmongering stories, line, sinker and hook.

Do you see people falling ill all over around you, those many that buy and consume that you seem to think is so badly produced and heavily contaminated?
Do you realize that we have some of the most aboundant, varied and yes, safe produce of all kinds, not just used for food, that humankind ever had, much of it thanks to what you seem to find so objectionable?

If we don't speak up when these questions are brought up by those like you, that listen to the propaganda of those groups, who will?
Remember, I am on YOUR side, if you want to keep having horses to use, breed and enjoy as you wish.

[county]

Why don't I eat meat from slaughter houses? I do if I go to say a fast food place, or a steak house, although I usually eat fish or shrip at those. But the biggest reason I don't buy meat is I have a farm full of cattle, hogs, sheep, poultry, and rabbits why would I buy it?

[county]

Uh DB if you notice you keep repeating yourself over and over also.

[ZiggyStardust]

I am probably going to regret jumping into the fray, esp since this has strayed so far from the OP's topic, and I'm sure these subjects have been beaten to death in other threads, but I find the idea of referring to any group who would try to stand up for the humane treatment of livestock and to bring abuses to air in the light of day as fanatics and extremists akin to the idea of calling anyone who eats meat as a murderous monster. Sorry to say, most people in the U.S. are completely ignorant as to where their food comes from, and these "animal rights" people are only on a different part of the spectrum, in opposition of the mass apathy that exists about this and many other imperfect aspects of our society.

I am on the board of an organization that rescues and adopts out dogs and cats and also rehabilitates wildlife. Based on some of the stories of what people are capable of doing to animals that live in their own homes, it is not hard to believe that there are people in the world who have as much or less concern for livestock. The truth is that the vast majority of Americans take wonderful care of their animals, but even many of these people are totally (and often blissfully) ignorant of where their food comes from. Do you think that any problems will be solved when the majority of the public doesn't know/care unless they are essentially hit over the head with a graphic image? This statement could be said of just about any major social or political problem in the world. Alright, that's my 2 cents.

[Bluey]

---"I find the idea of referring to any group who would try to stand up for the humane treatment of livestock and to bring abuses to air in the light of day as fanatics and extremists akin to the idea of calling anyone who eats meat as a murderous monster. Sorry to say, most people in the U.S. are completely ignorant as to where their food comes from, and these "animal rights" people are only on a different part of the spectrum, in opposition of the mass apathy that exists about this and many other imperfect aspects of our society."---

I see your point there, you are right to bring those concerns up.

I do wonder if you know who the HSUS is and that is who we mostly are referring to.
Don't only read the first page, click to go to the links on the right, like the one on their finances and quotes.
Very enlightening and you will understand more where we are coming from:

http://www.activistcash.com/organiza...ew.cfm/oid/136

These are very serious discussions, that will shape in the end if we humans will get to use animals, including our horses at all in a few more generations.

As the president of the HSUS is quoted saying, no more domestic animals in a generation and not soon enough for him, or something like that.
That includes horses.

[Ridge Runner]

Uh DB if you notice you keep repeating yourself over and over also.

Only trying to keep up with Bluey.

[county]

So its not that people repeating themselves actually bothers you its if you are ahead of them or not?

[ZiggyStardust]

Okay, I'll bite.

1. This is going to sound more snarky than it's meant to, but asking someone who works with an animal welfare organization if they know who HSUS is kind of humorous.

2. I did go to that website, which is similar or identical to sites I have seen others on this board refer to for their arguments. The first thing I noted is that the main point there seems to be that the national HSUS is now evil because it is not an animal welfare organization but an animal rights organization. There are many people who believe that if everyone observed certain respect and right of care for animals that animal welfare organizations would not be needed. "Welfare" care often means trying to clean up a problem that's already been created. People who rail against "animal rights" groups are often the same people who rail against the governments human "welfare" programs. Truly, it is much more cost effective to use prevention via "animal rights" than using band-aids in "animal welfare". For 99% of services animal welfare organizations provide, we would be grateful to be put out of business if people no longer abused, abandoned, or irresponsibly bred animals.

3. I didn't see a lot of linear arguments and evidence in the diatribe on that website. I saw a lot of quotes with no context, and some references to financial structures and relationships that weren't really supported by detail fact.

4. In digging around, I learned the website Activistcash.com is run by the Center for Consumer Freedom. The Center for Consumer Freedom is a 501(c)(3) (somehow) providing "information" on food and beverage issues. Their 990 tax return lists Berman and Company as the Management Company, and Richard Berman as the President, Executive Director, and Director. Only 5 other board members are listed. Several are listed as employees of Berman or otherwise providing services to the Center for CF. Conflict of interest, anyone? Also in the 990, Berman and Co. is listed as the highest paid independent contractor, receiving $1,562,280 in compensation in 2007. Next highest paid was the New York Times, which received only $107,575. The Center "shares office space" with Berman. Berman received over $200K in expense reimbursements from the Center. ETA: There are no paid employees, only paid board members.

5. Berman and Co. is a PR firm. They have as much or more of an agenda than whatever they accuse HSUS of having. The Center for Consumer Freedom is essentially a lobby group located in Washington DC, in the offices of a PR firm.

[Ridge Runner]

So its not that people repeating themselves actually bothers you its if you are ahead of them or not?

And you always have to have the last word in.... Nice that we all have our vices isn't it?

[county]

Not at all just wondered if you were serious about your statement or not?

[Ridge Runner]

Not at all just wondered if you were serious about your statement or not?

Are you serious about anything or do you just like to pick fights?

[county]

I've asked myself the same thing about a nuber of people on here.

[JSwan]

The Center for Consumer Freedom is essentially a lobby group located in Washington DC, in the offices of a PR firm.

I don't disagree with you at all.

But I'll point out that if folks believe that HSUS isn't every bit as much a lobbying group as that Center I've got a bridge to sell them.

I don't drink anyone's Kool-Aid and I read every special interest groups calls to arms with a glass of Scotch in my hand. Single-malt of course.

HSUS has 3 full time lobbyists in my state. THREE. How many do they have in yours? In other posters? Lobbyists cost hundreds of thousands of dollars a year - even at the state level. How much is HSUS paying lobbyists in your state? Mine? Others?

Don't underestimate how much the HSUS has changed in the past... oh even 10 years. It is not the "dog and cat lovers" group it was in the past.

Megacharities are giant fundraising machines and they are wonderfully successful. Churning and churning and churning money and marketing marketing marketing themselves.

Not a bad gig.

But when it gets down to brass tacks they really don't do much - except for a high profile case now and then.

And I'd be very cautious about believing their press releases. One of my recent favorites is the one about the SS horse in the recent inaugural parade. HSUS lied through its teeth.

Like I said - I don't drink anyone's Kool-Aid, including the Center for Consumer Freedom.

But I also know HSUS for what it is - and it's not what it holds itself out to be.

And that's a shame because just with the money they spend on lobbyists in one year my state we could fund every single animal shelter for YEARS. They could completely fund low/cost spay neuter programs, they could provide veterinary care for stranded or sick livestock and/or pets, they could do all sorts of wonderful things.

And they do nothing. Not really. But by God if there is a chance they'll get their name in the paper they'll show up.

That leaves a very bad taste in my mouth.

[Bluey]

I can't say it as well as JSwan, but will ask, if you do work thru some non-profit group, then you yourself should know better about groups like HSUS and such others.

To try to shoot the messenger down still doesn't mean the message is not true.

Is the HSUS maybe who you work for?