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horse slaughter regulations

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  • #41
    Originally posted by Go Fish View Post
    I'm confused by this statement. I was raised on a cattle farm (Angus) and we gave the cattle drugs, wormer and "other substances" to protect their health. They didn't get Bute, I'll give you that.

    You shouldn't be confused. There is a withdrawl time for drugs given to cattle - you can't slaughter a cow that got Ivermectin 24 hours ago but you can a horse. Also, because horses aren't normally raised for slaughter, people can put known human carcinogens on horses and yes, they can end up in the human food chain.
    Holly
    www.ironhorsefrm.com
    Oldenburg foals and young prospects
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    • #42
      And we have no control over what other countries allow any more then they do here. As it should be.
      Quality doesn\'t cost it pays.

      Comment


      • #43
        Originally posted by Daydream Believer View Post
        We're not talking about mistakes make while manufacturing a TV set or a microchip...we're talking about living breathing animals that feel pain and fear. NO animal should go down that damn line upside down and concious while being skinned, drowned in scalding water or having it's legs cut off. People like to point out other countries atrocities and smugly sit at home eating their hamburger or ham while atrocities to dogs and cats just as bad are done many times a day in our own nation so we can all have our cheap meat. I hate hipocrasy.
        But you DO want it both ways!

        Because you are advocating what we have now - which is insufficient for the sheer number of animals neglected!

        Do you go out and inspect for abuse? I do - let me tell you I am busier now than I have ever been and there is no way for the GLUT of horses to be fed or house or HUMANELY ANY THING. Our government is BROKE! We are borrowing BILLIONS from CHINA to pay our bills and "stimulate" our economy. We have no drop off places like the infamous "pound" where small pets go. NOTHING. So they SUFFER! And they suffeer longer and far more dire than a merciful quick end would bring them.

        SHAMEFUL! SHAMEFUL! SHAMEFUL! To want NOTHING to be done about it!

        More truck loads to Canada and Mexico. Lower prices for well bred well trained SOUND horses domestically. RUINING this industry! The equine industry is nearly on it's knees - do not kill it with rhetoric garbage on "Humanity". We stopped being humane when we made fire. Ending processing in the US did nothing but DAMAGE to the horses the economy and to our HUMANITY!

        In doubt? Come on over I have 6 visits to make yet this week - let me show you how the horses that are on the brink are doing. Let me introduce you to owners with no electricity, no food for their families, on the verge of foreclosure, with horses the market CAN NOT ABSORB! With no place to put them, we are making due on donated food - NOT ENOUGH! When the bank takes the farm - THEN WHAT????

        Get your head out of where it is it is not attractive and I think you need a breath of fresh air
        "If you don't know where you are going, any road will take you there"

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        • #44
          Woodland, what in the hell are you talking about? I was talking about the slaughter of all animals, not just horses...and advocating humane treatment for ALL of them. I cannot imagine what you could possibly object to if you had read the discussion prior to my post. Quite obviously you did not read for comprehension or read at all. Get a grip and take your BS rant to someone who gives a crap about what you think. I don't.

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          • #45
            Originally posted by JSwan View Post
            I don't know if I should be your new hero - I raise and butcher my own chickens. Basically if it's running around in the back yard or pastures and doesn't have a job I eat it. The horses and goats have jobs so they are safe!
            Our beef cow "Bacon" was slaughtered in our yard last week - dropped, gutted, skinned, and quartered, then we took the nice quiet, easy to handle "Bacon Bits" in the back of the truck to the local processer.... And I've got 5 roosters left out of the original 9 who are waiting for their date with destiny Heck, I've got a pony who would be great eating if I got hungry enough!
            -Jessica

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            • #46
              Originally posted by AppJumpr08 View Post
              Our beef cow "Bacon" was slaughtered in our yard last week - dropped, gutted, skinned, and quartered, then we took the nice quiet, easy to handle "Bacon Bits" in the back of the truck to the local processer.... And I've got 5 roosters left out of the original 9 who are waiting for their date with destiny Heck, I've got a pony who would be great eating if I got hungry enough!
              Cool - we can form a mutual admiration society! I draw the line at doing the large animals at home, though. Too lazy.

              Processor is a couple of miles down the road and I'm happy to drive them down there. I'm on the hunt for Devon feeder steers but settled for Angus. Very interested in Devon (polled) though. Next year I'll plan better.

              About to place my chick order - I can taste them already! nom nom nom nom......free range chicken is deeeeeelicious!

              The other processor in the area is under constant threat of being shut down. Not because of welfare violations but because a developer bought the land around it and put up McMansions. So if that place gets forced into closing I don't know where those animals will go. I think our local facility wants to stick with cattle and pigs and that's it.

              Smooth move, Exlax. Force the shutdown of a facility and the animals have to travel further to be slaughtered. And I have no doubt someone in that development will eventually be tut tutting over how awful it is that "factory farming" is so inhumane. And they'll say it with a straight face as they chew their steak.

              Crazy.
              Brothers and sisters, I bid you beware
              Of giving your heart to a dog to tear.
              -Rudyard Kipling

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              • #47
                Originally posted by JSwan View Post
                Cool - we can form a mutual admiration society! I draw the line at doing the large animals at home, though. Too lazy.
                Sounds good

                It was actually really easy - there is an older gentleman who lives in my area who is very well known for his butchering skills. He shows up in his old F-350, straps on his chain belt with his knives, grabs his gun, and waits patently for his shot. Only takes one. Apparently he only takes one shot with pigs too.
                I'm a little bummed about the bloody snow, since the dogs think it's NUMMY, but it was a lot easier then dragging him kicking and screaming onto the trailer and taking him 2 hours away It was actually really interesting to watch Victor cut the body up - an anatomy lesson and dinner!

                I don't think we're going to do a chick order this year, but are already plotting to order chicks, turkeys, and pheasants next year... but we'll see what really happens

                As far as I'm concerned, as long as any kind of slaughter is done quickly and efficiently I don't have a problem with it.. it's not like animals know days in advance that their end is near. The issue I've always had with horse slaughter was the days/weeks leading up to it that many horses go through - the auctions, the over crowded trailers.... If they were all shipped as county says he ships his, and it's no different then going to a show or something, I don't have an issue with it. At the end of the day, there are ALWAYS going to be horses whos' owners need to dispose of them, and if they have an option that puts a bit of money in their pocket instead of spending hundreds or thousands of dollars to have the horse euthanized and disposed of (a renderer/cremation/whatever), I see nothing wrong with that.
                -Jessica

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                • #48
                  Originally posted by Iron Horse Farm View Post
                  You shouldn't be confused. There is a withdrawl time for drugs given to cattle - you can't slaughter a cow that got Ivermectin 24 hours ago but you can a horse. Also, because horses aren't normally raised for slaughter, people can put known human carcinogens on horses and yes, they can end up in the human food chain.
                  Do you really think that that cow in the feed lot is "clean?" If you believe that, I have a bridge in Brooklyn to sell you.

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                  • #49
                    Originally posted by Go Fish View Post
                    Do you really think that that cow in the feed lot is "clean?" If you believe that, I have a bridge in Brooklyn to sell you.
                    In light of the equine slaughters favorite motto "24 hours stable to table", a significant withdrawal period is hard to imagine.
                    Yo/Yousolong April 23rd, 1985- April 15th, 2014

                    http://notesfromadogwalker.com/2012/...m-a-sanctuary/

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                    • #50
                      Originally posted by county View Post
                      .

                      Its also true rendering plants are no longer going to pick up livestock unless the spinal cord and brain are removed I think here it goes into law in April but forget the date for sure. My guess is not many horse owners are going to do it.
                      Wow -why such a rule change? Is it national or just in some states?

                      That would be difficult-I mean you put your horse down and then what do they expect-us to take out a butcher knife and split the skull and chop off the spinal cord-where would we even do that and with the blood and organs spilling all over?

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                      • #51
                        Its national but last I heard it wasn't decided what all species it will cover some have said only bovine, some say all, some say only ruminents. I think it may just be bovine because of mad cow disease?
                        Quality doesn\'t cost it pays.

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                        • #52
                          Originally posted by Daydream Believer View Post
                          Woodland, what in the hell are you talking about? I was talking about the slaughter of all animals, not just horses...and advocating humane treatment for ALL of them. I cannot imagine what you could possibly object to if you had read the discussion prior to my post. Quite obviously you did not read for comprehension or read at all. Get a grip and take your BS rant to someone who gives a crap about what you think. I don't.
                          Honestly, I think that you are getting your ideas from sources that are not telling the truth, for their own reasons.

                          We have three big slaughter plants and they are all very modern, have conveyors to take the cattle down the line and the cattle are suspended by the conveyor so they are still and there are practically no misses.
                          Once the captive bolt enters the brain, the cattle are immediately unconscious.
                          Those few videos out there that show the same few images over and over and say the animal is being tortured alive are misleading, because bodies will wiggle after immediate death, without the animal knowing anything any more.

                          Read Temple Grandin site for more TRUE information, since she designed and keeps coming back to inspect and tweak the plants here regularly.
                          I think that even you would not find anything amiss in them, as far as being humane.

                          Just think that, even if you think people don't care for the animals, any bruised meat is cut out at a loss and no one wants to lose money in a business that makes very little as it is, so they try to be as gentle as they possibly can.
                          Even the cowboys weighing and sorting cattle, the truckers that ship them to the plants are on file and if a shipment has any problems at all, the feedlot and trucker are notified and if it happens again they don't do business with them any more.

                          Just because some people are raising cattle and eventually slaughtering them doesn't mean that they are abusers.
                          Think, other than caring because we care for our animals, does it make sense that anyone would abuse the animals that, if abused, won't perform for them?
                          If someone does, it would be very rare, just as the rare rescue may starve the animals under their care.

                          The local slaughter plants give tours to groups and no, they don't do anything different when a tour comes in, they don't have anything to hide, they are run like a regular business and all kept extremely clean, with crews washing everything down all the time.

                          I really think it is time that people quit bashing stuff only on the word of a few with an agenda to terminate our use of animals, under the myths of that use being all abuse.
                          Here is how someone that can write better than I can put it:

                          ---"Truth is, cattle production is the low-hanging fruit.
                          Activists see us as easy pickings.
                          We’ve made food production so efficient that increasingly fewer people are needed to produce it; the result is the majority of the population has very little idea of the origin of their food.
                          Now those people are being duped into believing livestock producers don’t care about the environment or their livestock."---

                          I think that we are still throwing the baby out with the bathwater when we closed the horse slaughter plants, rather than work to make the whole horse industry as good as we can.

                          ANYONE that breeds horses today for no reason or any one reason, as I think you do as a breeder, in this glut of horses we have been coming to in the past few years, I would think would be the last person to bash slaughter, that is just one more way the horses our industry produces can be of use to us.

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                          • #53
                            Originally posted by Bluey View Post
                            Honestly, I think that you are getting your ideas from sources that are not telling the truth, for their own reasons.
                            Blah, blah, blah...do you ever let up with your rhetoric and pro slaugther propaganda? Why don't you read the book, Slaughterhouse, I mentioned and the amazing amount of sworn testimony in it of people who actually work in these slaughterhouses before you criticize it as a source of false information? Duh... Maybe you will find out that your rose colored glasses you wear need some cleaner as you seem to envision happy animals dying instantly and painlessly hanging from assembly line meat hooks going through these spotless soulless processing plants. Maybe reality is a bit more close to the videos recently of cattle being pushed across the yards by forktrucks and having hoses crammed up their noses to get them on their feet so they can be legally slaughtered...when they think no one is looking? Of course they will put on a good show for inspections and tours. They aren't stupid.

                            Originally posted by Bluey View Post
                            ANYONE that breeds horses today for no reason or any one reason, as I think you do as a breeder, in this glut of horses we have been coming to in the past few years, I would think would be the last person to bash slaughter, that is just one more way the horses our industry produces can be of use to us.
                            I think if you also read for comprehension (like Woodland or whatever she's called failed to do also) you will see that I do not have a problem with slaughter of any animals done humanely....note the key work HUMANELY. You will however never convince me that assembly line slaughter as it is done now is humane for any animal so don't bother trying....just go blab at someone else or you go on ignore.

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                            • #54
                              Originally posted by Bluey View Post

                              Read Temple Grandin site for more TRUE information, since she designed and keeps coming back to inspect and tweak the plants here regularly.
                              I think that even you would not find anything amiss in them, as far as being humane.
                              I wish she would look at the horse slaughter situation again. She's in Northern Colorado often and I can show her to plenty of feedlots, auctions, and trucks loading.... the only things I have seen her look at in regards to horse slaughter are quite dated.

                              Even the cowboys weighing and sorting cattle, the truckers that ship them to the plants are on file and if a shipment has any problems at all, the feedlot and trucker are notified and if it happens again they don't do business with them any more.
                              Wish that was the same for horses. We have that 700 page document from the USDA showing it happens often with the same dealers bringing injured or dead horses in.

                              Just because some people are raising cattle and eventually slaughtering them doesn't mean that they are abusers.
                              I think I see pigs flying (aka we agree).

                              Think, other than caring because we care for our animals, does it make sense that anyone would abuse the animals that, if abused, won't perform for them?
                              If someone does, it would be very rare, just as the rare rescue may starve the animals under their care.
                              Wanting to save money amount people that sell horses for a living isn't rare.
                              Renting land costs money. Transporting them costs money. Vets cost money.
                              Overcrowd horses in feedlots and trailer and not offering them vet care are a few "easy" ways I have seen the big kill buyers save money. Yes, some horses become so injured they die at the lot or in transport. Many more are injured in transport. Considering the volume of horses he's dealing to slaughter, to the kill buyer it dips little in his profit. But it sure does matter a whole lot to the horses.

                              The local slaughter plants give tours to groups and no, they don't do anything different when a tour comes in, they don't have anything to hide, they are run like a regular business and all kept extremely clean, with crews washing everything down all the time.
                              The AVMA (and/or AAEP) has been trying to the Mexican plants where our horses are slaughtered and they will not allow the vets in. If it was open to the public, as a future vet, I would want to go and see it therefore being able to advise my clients accurately. No such option.

                              Oh, and I have no interest in stopping cattle slaughter. I love cheeseburgers. To me it's an entirely different situation than horses. Don't sell me the slippery slope theory for a minute. Not one ounce of proof to back that up.




                              ANYONE that breeds horses today for no reason or any one reason, as I think you do as a breeder, in this glut of horses we have been coming to in the past few years, I would think would be the last person to bash slaughter, that is just one more way the horses our industry produces can be of use to us.
                              There they go again, those pink flying pigs
                              Last edited by FatPalomino; Feb. 27, 2009, 10:40 PM. Reason: clarity

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                              • #55
                                Talk about blah blah blah DB. So if you read something with " sworn testimony that said slaughter goes perfect you'd then beleive that?
                                Quality doesn\'t cost it pays.

                                Comment


                                • #56
                                  ---"Maybe reality is a bit more close to the videos recently of cattle being pushed across the yards by forktrucks and having hoses crammed up their noses to get them on their feet so they can be legally slaughtered...when they think no one is looking?"---

                                  Why bring that up?
                                  Those people were doing that against all regulations, when the inspector went in for a little to do other work inside.
                                  That is people breaking laws and regulations, not what happens regularly.
                                  They knew they would lose their jobs and still did it for the video.
                                  Ever wonder why?

                                  We don't have to wonder why the HSUS put those videos out there, don't we, we all know why.
                                  I wonder what kind of run on donations they got out of that little trick.

                                  As for horse slaughter, that is using one more of our many natural resources, those many horses that we don't have any other use for.
                                  Why are we so wasteful we just kill and dispose of, many times contaminating the soil and maybe water when we bury them and pat ourselves on the back on top of that?

                                  If all the money the animal rights are using in their drives to stop slaughter had been used to correct what is not up to regulations we would not be where we are today.
                                  They did it, not because they care any about the horses, but because the controversy bring them millions in donations and without those they would not even exist.
                                  The controversy is what they seem to be after, not a resolution, or not a quick and sensible one.

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                                  • #57
                                    There have been cases of clergy members molesting children does that mean to some of you that its by far the norm?
                                    Quality doesn\'t cost it pays.

                                    Comment


                                    • #58
                                      Originally posted by county View Post
                                      Talk about blah blah blah DB. So if you read something with " sworn testimony that said slaughter goes perfect you'd then beleive that?
                                      No but Bluey would.

                                      Comment


                                      • #59
                                        So its not " sworn testimony " that means anything its who its sworn by?
                                        Quality doesn\'t cost it pays.

                                        Comment


                                        • #60
                                          Originally posted by Bluey View Post
                                          ---"Maybe reality is a bit more close to the videos recently of cattle being pushed across the yards by forktrucks and having hoses crammed up their noses to get them on their feet so they can be legally slaughtered...when they think no one is looking?"---

                                          Why bring that up?
                                          Because it's relevant to the conversation.


                                          Originally posted by Bluey View Post
                                          Those people were doing that against all regulations, when the inspector went in for a little to do other work inside.
                                          That is people breaking laws and regulations, not what happens regularly.
                                          They knew they would lose their jobs and still did it for the video.
                                          Ever wonder why?
                                          Maybe they did not know they were being videoed? Seems a bit obvious doesn't it? Do you really believe these inspectors see everything that go on or care? You really are naive to believe that.

                                          Go read the book if you are open minded enough. If not, continue along in your fantasy world of utopic slaughterhouses and happy unstressed animals going peacefully down the assembly line and conscientious workers doing their job right every time and management that cares more about the animals welfare than their own bottom line. Yeh right...dream on...

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