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Possible horse abuse?

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  • #21
    Originally posted by luckofthedraw View Post
    First off...A big THANK YOU to everyone who posted suggestions! I am looking into all of them.

    Woodland- Actually, I know the people who own this farm. Other people in the "neighborhood" would agree complain about this woman too. She and her husband are not elderly, new parents, they have owned horses for a long time, and are known around town for being "deadbeats." I would certainly not jump the gun and post, if I didn't think it was a legit complaint. I live in the Sandhills of NC...home of awesome footing year round...so no, everything is not a muddy mess around here. And when the footing base of the gross paddock they are living in is manure, yes no drainage will happen. I am confident that if you saw the shape these horses are in you would agree that the owners are in the wrong.

    These people are lazy and inconsiderate of their animals, i.e. don't deserve them. That's why I'm taking action...people shouldn't be able to get away with this.
    Who died and made you queen?

    You want to take people horses away from them because they "don't deserve them"?!?!?!?!?!?!?!?!?! It is perfectly possible to be "lazy and inconsiderate" and still have reasonably healthy horses.

    I agree with Woodland:
    You are detailing a disagreement in horse husbandry techniques - NOT abuse.
    I also suspect that maybe you are trying to cause trouble for people you don't like under the guise of "caring about the horses". After all, not many people go around looking for excuses to sic the authorities on people they like.

    If you really have a case for abuse/neglect, get off your hissy fit and what you "think" and "feel" and who "deserves" horses -- and find some actual facts. What you've got here should get your butt kicked on grounds of general silliness.

    Comment


    • #22
      ok - so I'm clear...

      Horses have food. water and shelter.

      You are unhappy because
      A/ they are in muddy/manurey(is that a word?) paddocks.
      B/ you 'imagine?" since you have never seen their feet, that their feet aren't done.
      C/You dislike these people because you consider them deadbeats.

      Have I got all the facts?

      So lets address them:
      A/
      I have 4 feet of snow in my backyard and snowbanks up to 7 feet high around the farm
      In another month, my pastures are going to be a slew of mud(clay) horseshit and water to put it bluntly.

      B/ you've never seen their feet, so how the hell do you know this is true? You don't.

      C/Your like or dislike of someone has and should have no bearing on whether or not they can have animals. Seriously.. what are you..12?

      Stop your car, get out, take your camera and document- I mean actually document what you see. Then you may or may not have something to take to AC.


      Let me tell you a story:

      Once of my older horses was injured and needed to be in a contained space to heal for about 6 mths. As he was 'senior' already - I chose to move him to my front paddock and cross fenced it so he couldn't run and would heal. Meaning he was then seen from the road. (also so my neighbor could keep an eye on him from his place across the road- to check on him throughout the day)

      This horse was under a vet care, good weight, limped (injured!) food, water and a 3 walled shelter.

      I had people calling AC left and right - and the little AC darlin's were obligated to trot themselves out to my farm for EVERY call- because it's their job, and they happen to take it very seriously. By the 4th call - they were as frustrated as I was at the immense waste of time caused by concerned people who couldn't be bothered to ask me directly.

      I even had put a sign up on his fence stating this was an injured horse under vet care --any concerns - and my phone number. ( As I do work and I thought this might be a good idea in case he went down while I was at work - was the main objective of the sign) Still they called AC.
      Originally posted by ExJumper
      Sometimes I'm thrown off, sometimes I'm bucked off, sometimes I simply fall off, and sometimes I go down with the ship. All of these are valid ways to part company with your horse.

      Comment


      • #23
        Let me relate two stories of husbandry disagreement within 1 mile of my home:

        #1 Lovely small acreage set up with run ins and stall barn. Obviously well fed horses and pony near a busy road behind a woven wire and electrified fence. After flooding rains and melting snow = MUD! Cannon deep boot sucking catastrophic MUD! Enter a few people driving by who know nothing of horses, or simply board a horse or two at someone else's stable. Who are appalled by MUD. And the poor owner of these well cared for horses ends up literally in therapy over all the A.C. visit - poor thing! She almost gave up her horses because the harassment was so difficult for her. Well meaning passersby? Or condemning rubber neckers? This person even though she has a lovely farm boards her horses at a boarding stable so "she can sleep at night".

        #2 A lady buys a first pony for her 2 yr old grand daughter. The pony is a wonderful old girl who is badly foundered and must be on a small dry lot. Her new owners prepare a 12 X 12 dry lot with a doll house of a stable for her. Miniature to fit the dear old Shetland. Same thing well meaning passersby instead of asking why the old gal was in a 12 x 12 lot with a run in called A.C. Our local A.C. is a JOKE! They harassed this poor owner until she gave the pony away to avoid the hassle. The pony recently foundered so badly at her new owner she is no longer with us. Did ANYONE bother to ask? Did the local Bubba A.C. bother to consult her vet NO!

        Just a difference of opinion that is all.
        "If you don't know where you are going, any road will take you there"

        Comment


        • #24
          Originally posted by Woodland View Post
          You are detailing a disagreement in horse husbandry techniques - NOT abuse.
          I totally agree!

          And I ask that you and all your do-gooder friends do not drive by my place right now.

          My two horses have shelter (stalls and a run in) and plenty of food and clean water. They are also blessed with lots of MUD! Clay sticky yucky mud! With the warmer weather we are having the huge huge huge piles of snow melting and my land is at the bottom of a hill. Guess what that means this time of year? Mud! Every where mud. And it also means I can not get out in the paddock and pick the manure out daily. I do clean the stalls and the areas I can get to, twice per day, but I am guessing to you guys that will not count if there is mud and manure where they horses choose to stand. So they will soon be in lots of mud and manure. Oh yeah, and they have limited turn out space right now too. For the two of them it is about 75' x 200' of mud. That is the sacrifice area. Oh, and so you do not have to gawk too long to be sure of what you are seeing, I will tell you that the bigger one will limp every now and again. I know, horrible isn't it. I pulled his shoes last time the farrier was here and when he finds a rock in that mud he does gimp. Mud was soon to be here, better the farrier pull the shoes than the poor horse loose them in the mud I say. That farrier visit was three weeks ago, I am sure you will find that to be neglectful too.

          For the record, I am all for people reporting true neglect!
          I just get frustrated when people get their panties all in a bunch because some one else does not take care of their horse the same way they think horses should be taken care of.

          Comment


          • #25
            Mud does not always mean abuse

            My two horses have shelter (stalls and a run in) and plenty of food and clean water. They are also blessed with lots of MUD! Clay sticky yucky mud! With the warmer weather we are having the huge huge huge piles of snow melting and my land is at the bottom of a hill. Guess what that means this time of year? Mud!
            I have to laugh since I have 6 horses in the same situation (at least until I install gutters :-(... so last year I sell one of my young trained large ponies, to a nice ignorant young mother of 3 children and she intends to board, blanket, pamper this pony, etc. Heck! its her horse and she can do what she wants with him. Then she tells someone who knows both of us that when she moves her horses to her place, they will NEVER BE STANDING IN MUD~ ahem!.

            Well last I heard from the vet (mutual friend as well) yep.. the ponies were standing in ankle deep mud...

            It's so easy to judge from the outside without knowing all the details.
            Pao Lin

            Comment


            • #26
              I am sure animal control has better things to do as others have demonstrated in their posts.
              I can't stand it when the nosy get their nose out of joint and instead offering help or bothering to find out the reality of an animal before jumping to call AC.
              Judging people and their ability to care for horses that are standing in mud with shelter, food and water is a little off.
              The economy is terrible. People are broke and the "deadbeats" are still finding a way to supply their horses food and water. beats cutting your expenses by turning them loose in the bush and hoping they do or don't survive.
              As far as worming and shoeing, we didn't all jump in with horses and know all we know now. It's a learning process, a process which is a whole lot easier if you have someone knowledgeable to draw from.
              The horse's feet are getting a mud bath. Heck we buy so much mud to pack our horses feet yearly, and you all are getting it for free. Lucky you.
              Common sense might indicate that if they are standing knee deep in mud, there is a chance that cracked heels might be something they might want to be aware of. And perhaps they might need someone to show them what cracked heels are and how they develop and how to remedy the situation. BUT then again they might know all as well.
              Calling AC on a neighbor unless there is very valid reason is a great way to create animosity. And you never know if someone will retaliate if they figure out it was you.
              I am always worried what might end up in my yard with my dogs. I've found everything under the sun in my yard including light bulbs. And I've only pissed one woman off in 2 years of living here.
              People wrongly accused do get cranky.

              Comment


              • #27
                Originally posted by luckofthedraw View Post
                Woodland- Actually, I know the people who own this farm. ... I am confident that if you saw the shape these horses are in you would agree that the owners are in the wrong.
                That's jumping to a conclusion that is probably not accurate. From prior posts of woodland's I believe her stance regarding horse care is that if it doesn't actually kill them, it's okay. How's that for dull and inane woodland? Or do you have me on ignore now?
                Stoneybrook Farm Afton TN

                Comment


                • #28
                  In NJ, horses come under the Agriculture Department, not Animal Control. Might try them as well.

                  However, I have to log in with the folks who realize during mud season you may not be able to avoid it. Its also the time of year you restrict their access to the whole field to protect the turf there for the rest of the year. Lastly, muddy horses always look more pathetic. So please... be SURE these people are really neglecting rather than just horsekeeping differently than you do.

                  Our guys are visiting a spa (barn with indoor) for the winter because our usual barn's owner is away for the winter this year. While its a lovely barn, the people are nice and the indoor means we can actually DO something other than driving up and down the driveway, the guys have told us several times they feel abused because they are in a lot more than they are used to because that is how turnout is handled here. Down an icy slope to the turnout fields doesn't happen when its dangerous for horses or people instead they get time in the indoor - which looks rather like the shirtless painted in team colors guys doing chest bumps and racing around in circles after a touchdown.

                  Comment


                  • #29
                    Honestly, this is why I wish my propery set back a bit more, and the horses don't have acess to the very front of the property line.

                    'Cos God forbid a horse rolls in the mud. They may DIE from being dirty.



                    From the description of the OP, the horses have food water and shelter. I also figure they are in reasonable wieght as well, and are otherwise in good shape.

                    SO, because YOU think they look unhappy, they must be so.

                    Because YOU think the owners are "deadbeats" they are doing a bad job and don't deserve the animals.

                    WOW. Since everybody else is just beating around it, I'll go ahead and just say it. You. are. an. asshat.

                    Comment


                    • #30
                      Originally posted by Pat View Post
                      WOW. Since everybody else is just beating around it, I'll go ahead and just say it. You. are. an. asshat.
                      Are you serious?

                      What is the world coming to?

                      Why be a hater?
                      Stoneybrook Farm Afton TN

                      Comment


                      • #31
                        Originally posted by Chiniko View Post
                        I can't stand it when the nosy get their nose out of joint and instead offering help or bothering to find out the reality of an animal before jumping to call AC.
                        I have a problem with your statement because the proper way to deal with a suspected case of abuse is to alert the appropriate authorities. Getting involved personally in generally not advisable.

                        But I certainly wouldn't be getting so upset about horses standing in mud. It looks awful but it can be pretty hard to avoid. I'm sure my horse will be standing in mud for a while after our 5 feet of snow/ice melt.
                        Jigga:
                        Why must you chastise my brilliant idea with facts and logic? **picks up toys (and wine) and goes home**

                        Comment


                        • #32
                          As OP mentioned, mud is rare in the sandhills. The only way you will get mud is if the horses are standing in several feet of manure. I think that is important to keep in mind.

                          We have really well draining sold and while many parts of the US do get med--wet dirt that hold water--we just do not get it here. Only manure and lots of it will create the "swamps of sorrow" in an overcrowded paddock here.

                          So the question becomes, "Is it OK for horses to stand in several feet of manure all day"?

                          Comment


                          • #33
                            Originally posted by saultgirl View Post
                            I have a problem with your statement because the proper way to deal with a suspected case of abuse is to alert the appropriate authorities. Getting involved personally in generally not advisable.
                            "Alerting the appropriate authorities" is "the proper way to deal with a suspected case of abuse" ONLY when the person doing the suspecting has carefully examined their observations for ignorance, foolish expectations, unwitting bias, and unwarranted conclusions and then purged their position of all but the actual facts of the case.

                            However, that apparently is too much bother for most people who'd rather create drama and feel important and insist on jumping to conclusions based on their own opinions. Running to "the authorities" under those circumstances is rather Madame DeFarge-ish.
                            Last edited by greysandbays; Feb. 11, 2009, 08:58 PM. Reason: Firefox didn't allow in-copy editing...

                            Comment


                            • #34
                              The NH state veterinarian closed a horse rescue down a few years ago due to mud.
                              Mud is not good for horses, and standing it 24/7 without being able to get out of it is definitely not good for horses.
                              The state vet felt mud constituted neglect, thus he threatened to close the rescue down, but they volunteered to close.

                              I live in the northeast where mud has a season...actually a few.
                              I feel people who think this is normal and do not clean their paddocks, where manure is produced, thus adding to the muddy, mucky mess are not practicing good animal husbandry.
                              Scraping away manure and mud and putting down an inorganic base(fines or stonedust) is necessary to keep horses from standing in mud.

                              Mud can cause all sorts of health problems from white line, scratches, abcesses, cellulitis/lymphangitis, etc

                              I am no fan of mud, since it really isn't 'mud' but muck.
                              save lives...spay/neuter/geld

                              Comment


                              • #35
                                Originally posted by equinelaw View Post
                                As OP mentioned, mud is rare in the sandhills. The only way you will get mud is if the horses are standing in several feet of manure. I think that is important to keep in mind.

                                We have really well draining sold and while many parts of the US do get med--wet dirt that hold water--we just do not get it here. Only manure and lots of it will create the "swamps of sorrow" in an overcrowded paddock here.

                                So the question becomes, "Is it OK for horses to stand in several feet of manure all day"?
                                Must be some mighty long-legged horses if they are standing IN "several feet" of manure (which would imply at least three feet). Unless you are talking about standing ON TOP of several feet of manure -- and if they are standing on top of it, it doesn't make much difference if it's two inches or ten feet. It's not much fun to be the one who has to handle the horse's feet, but it won't hurt the horse any.

                                Comment


                                • #36
                                  The OP makes a lot of assumptions on the horses care and demeanor when it is clear she has never set foot on the property nor handled these animals.

                                  I think in order to make any allegations she must be certain by visiting and handling that she is correct. Otherwise she is committing slander.

                                  Sending inspectors out because you disagree with husbandry techniques is a waste of valuable resources. If you need to see what "real" neglect looks like here you go:

                                  http://www.hahs.org/
                                  "If you don't know where you are going, any road will take you there"

                                  Comment


                                  • #37
                                    Originally posted by saultgirl View Post
                                    I have a problem with your statement because the proper way to deal with a suspected case of abuse is to alert the appropriate authorities. Getting involved personally in generally not advisable.

                                    But I certainly wouldn't be getting so upset about horses standing in mud. It looks awful but it can be pretty hard to avoid. I'm sure my horse will be standing in mud for a while after our 5 feet of snow/ice melt.
                                    I have to defend the poster in question. Suspected abuse isn't always abuse. It's mud. They have the basics as far as we know, so what's the big deal.
                                    Maybe probe the situation instead of judging them without all of the info.

                                    Comment


                                    • #38
                                      Originally posted by Woodland View Post
                                      I think in order to make any allegations she must be certain by visiting and handling that she is correct. Otherwise she is committing slander.
                                      I disagree. If an individual suspects a problem, it is absolutely not their responsibility to investigate on their own to be sure there is a problem before reporting it. If an individual suspects abuse, it is their responsibility to report it to the authorities. The authorities are the ones who make the judgement call as to whether conditions are acceptable.

                                      I am operating under the assumption that the priority is the well-being of the animals (i.e. not someone trying to cause trouble for people they don't like!).

                                      I don't believe any good would come from knocking on someone's door and talking to them about it directly. It will then immediately become personal, and possibly DANGEROUS if you are dealing with someone with, for example, a mental illness, severe stress, depression, etc.
                                      Jigga:
                                      Why must you chastise my brilliant idea with facts and logic? **picks up toys (and wine) and goes home**

                                      Comment


                                      • #39
                                        Originally posted by Blinkers On View Post
                                        I have to defend the poster in question. Suspected abuse isn't always abuse. It's mud. They have the basics as far as we know, so what's the big deal.

                                        This, I agree with.


                                        Maybe probe the situation instead of judging them without all of the info.
                                        What kind of "probe" do you suggest?
                                        Jigga:
                                        Why must you chastise my brilliant idea with facts and logic? **picks up toys (and wine) and goes home**

                                        Comment


                                        • #40
                                          Originally posted by saultgirl View Post
                                          I have a problem with your statement because the proper way to deal with a suspected case of abuse is to alert the appropriate authorities. Getting involved personally in generally not advisable.

                                          But I certainly wouldn't be getting so upset about horses standing in mud. It looks awful but it can be pretty hard to avoid. I'm sure my horse will be standing in mud for a while after our 5 feet of snow/ice melt.

                                          BUT in this case as Woodland said it's not abuse it's husbandry. We ought to be able to discern what is abusive and what is mud. How can one just sit back and judge without knowing fact? No matter how strong your binoculars are, they might not allow you to see the real or whole story. One would assume that neighbors are amicable, and as such ought to be able to have casual conversation and the topic comes up.
                                          Calling AC because a horse is standing covered in mud after a good roll, has long hair, because it is winter, and looks scruffy and dull isn't abuse. It's dirt and the season. Neither of which are a crime. Nor is it abuse.
                                          Maybe I live in a dream world where humans actually interact with their neighbors in a friendly fashion, And helped each other out.. imagine what a crazy world that would be!

                                          Comment

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