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Attention Western Riders!

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  • Thanks for the directions to the paint patterns and some trail suggestions, guys!

    We show open (4-H, dirt circuit QH) for experience only as most open judges won't look at a light ("society") breed under western tack. Still, it's a good way to get those initial show giggles out of the way cheaply and close to home. Otherwise, there is one All-Breed club about 2 hrs from home that really means what it says and offers separate western classes for stock type and light type, a few breed club shows and the "A" breed circuit, which in this area includes what should be "B" shows as well as honest-to-god "A" shows, and some combined breed (ASB, Arab, Morgan) shows, so there's lots to do.

    OTOH, the past few years we've been having so much fun trailriding and working cattle that we kinda forgot to go to shows.

    Comment


    • So, now that we are getting away from the "peanut rollers", how long do you think it will take before we see in in the ring??
      I know the judges have to the seminars and what not so they know the "standard", but do you think we will see less of it this year or not.Hope this makes sence Im in a hurry.

      Comment


      • Heres some pics of my western horse.( he is NOT a peanut roller or fourbeater either!*g* )
        I show APHA Pleasure, but may try some horsemanship this year also.
        Attached Files

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        • Another, kind of blurry sorry.
          Attached Files

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          • One of my Paints is a WP horse, and he seems to love it. He loves to go slow, but his movements are true. He goes with a level topline, and never four-beats the lope. Interestingly enough, before I bought him he was showing 1st level dressage, schooling 2nd. He knows the difference in his jobs, and is amazingly fun.

            I don't show at the Paint shows anymore, mainly because I found something more fun to do than go in circles. After years of showing, I now ride with a ladies drill team and do parades. It's got the same fun "get dressed up" element, is a ton of work, but doesn't have the same stresses on me and my horses that going to shows had for me.

            We still do three or four shows a year, local association "open" shows. I attended the judge's seminar last year and the video they showed about WP was very specific about the neck being horizontal and the head just ahead of the vertical. I was impressed. They went so far as to say "Don't pin the peanut rollers".

            I don't think I could have shown WP in the old days. It would have bugged me too much to go that slowly!

            Comment


            • Personally,I dont really care where a horse carries his head,as long as he is broke, and moving slow and true. I think too much emphasis is put on "headset". My horses neck ties in quite low out of his chest, he of course is more comfortable carrying his head a bit low. I dont get after him for it as long as he is driving from behind and his legs are good. It wouldnt be fair to him to try and bump it up where he isnt comfortable carrying it. That is why I personally dont care for the headset rule, it doesnt let judges decifer between horses that NATURALLY carry their necks a bit low, due to comformation, and the ones that have been forced and intimidated into a low headset. ( mind you, the latter is usually a poor mover also, because theyve been crammed into a falseframe)

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              • <BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by sandbarhorse:
                Especially that 4 beat lope/trot gait, it makes the horse look lame!!
                <HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

                I saw the WP class at a very large QH show, and the lope......ay yi yi........they all looked lame and they all loped as slow as they walked, many of them swishing and grinding (including the winner). There were two there who had a true lope as it should be, they were still relatively slow, and they placed in the low ribbons. Sigh....

                &gt;^.,.^&lt;
                ~~Linda

                "My treasures do not clink or glitter; they gleam in the sun and neigh in the night"

                ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
                You can't have everything. Where would you put it all?

                Comment


                • I too was very disturbed by the placings in Western Pleasure at a Paint show I spectated over at the Lexington Horse Center (VA).

                  When they called for lope, all but one horse broke into the weirdest-looking gait I have ever seen!!! The closest I can describe it is nose in the dirt, cantering/loping up front, trotting behind. With a lot of unpleasant tail-swishing to boot. The only entry who was doing a nice true, slow, lope didn't even place.

                  Very, very sad.

                  My body is a temple - unfortunately, it's a "fixer- upper".

                  Comment


                  • <BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by Overo:

                    Now, if we could just get rid of that horrible, afraid-to-move QH shuffle that passes for a walk!!<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

                    LOL - we call that "dead horse walking" out here. It's hard to teach a horse, actually. Most horses do want to do a natural walk. You teach them by actually making them pause after each step. We never do this in the open shows. I agree with the previous poster about picking a lesser evil, too, when it comes to horses with too low a headset. When you have the choice between that and the one flying around the arena with his head too far up, which one do you pick? The one that looks the safest and most "pleasurable" to ride. We've had some questionable judges and just like Overo, we just don't show to that judge in the future.

                    "She's called Lucy because she often has some 'splaining to do."

                    Comment


                    • <BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by fleet:
                      Heres some pics of my western horse.( he is NOT a peanut roller or fourbeater either!*g* )
                      I show APHA Pleasure, but may try some horsemanship this year also.<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

                      Your horse looks fine - relaxed and happy. I'm attaching a picture of mine - also not a "peanut roller" or 4 beater. Her head/neck position are in line with the AQHA rules which want the poll pretty much level with the withers and the nose slightly in front of the vertical. This horse does all-around, though, and is not a fancy-moving WP horse.

                      In answer to a question, most of the old style lopers are being re-trained, at the lower levels anyway. At the upper levels, they're probably already retired to the broodmare band.

                      A pet peeve of mine is people who haven't seen a QH or western breed show in years (or ever) who just repeat what they have heard other people say - "all QH are peanut-rollers, 4-beaters, etc." Those horses are not being placed the way they used to be - it was a fad which has gone by the wayside thanks to rule changes, etc. Thank God that "pump jack" thing has gone out of favor, too.

                      "She's called Lucy because she often has some 'splaining to do."
                      Attached Files

                      Comment


                      • [QUOTE]Originally posted by breezymeadow:
                        I too was very disturbed by the placings in Western Pleasure at a Paint show I spectated over at the Lexington Horse Center (VA).

                        When they called for lope, all but one horse broke into the weirdest-looking gait I have ever seen!!! The closest I can describe it is nose in the dirt, cantering/loping up front, trotting behind. With a lot of unpleasant tail-swishing to boot. The only entry who was doing a nice true, slow, lope didn't even place.

                        When was this show? Recently?

                        "She's called Lucy because she often has some 'splaining to do."

                        Comment


                        • No, actually it was in the fall not too long after we moved here to Culpeper, either the fall of 1997 or 1998 I think. It was definitely before the forming of the Shenandoah Paint Club/Association.

                          It was a pretty big show as I recall - ran a couple of days - but as I said, after spending a day there, I was very disappointed in the judging/placings. Peanut-rollers/4-beaters were definitely the rule of the day, & they were rewarded for it.

                          My body is a temple - unfortunately, it's a "fixer- upper".

                          Comment


                          • Hey, as an oft-proclaimed cowgirl, I wholeheartedly support this movement.

                            It's soooo nice to finally be home!

                            ~Disclaimer:
                            The opinions expressed in this post are not neccessarily the views of this poster.~
                            ~This is *way* more fun than doing something productive~

                            Comment


                            • <BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>

                              When they called for lope, all but one horse broke into the weirdest-looking gait I have ever seen!!! The closest I can describe it is nose in the dirt, cantering/loping up front, trotting behind. With a lot of unpleasant tail-swishing to boot.<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

                              We've dubbed this "lopin' on the wrong diagonal". Thankfully, we're seeing less and less of it up here.

                              Comment


                              • Have to say that from what I've seen in the past year or so "THAT" look is fading!! We went to the Paintorama for our region last year in NJ and, of the 6 judges, I really only saw 2 pinning the peanut rollers over the true movers. I was pleased to see it and may even enter my filly in that show this year.

                                I do believe that (sorry I forgot who said it) the BBer who said judges have to place the best "pleasure" horse with even gaits and proper attitude even if they do have the wrong headset. That being said, I seem to remember an AQHA rule about disqualification for a horses head (or ears?) being below the withers for some amount of time (5 seconds maybe?).

                                AQHA people help me out here- Do I have this correct?

                                LIHS- you know where I stand on the issue of the APHA judge you hired last year and those who disapproved, LOL, but I think I've forgotten about the proposed rule change. Please share, I believe it will probably create some more interesting conversation.

                                Anyone here ever tried reining? I'm taking my 3, almost 4 yr. old to a clinic in 2 weeks on reining. Hoping to at least get some good excercises out of it and see some of the experieinced reiners run!!
                                www.sandbarequinetransport.com

                                Proud member of the ILMD[FN]HP and Bull Snap Haters Cliques

                                Comment


                                • <BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by sandbarhorse:

                                  I do believe that (sorry I forgot who said it) the BBer who said judges have to place the best "pleasure" horse with even gaits and proper attitude even if they do have the wrong headset. That being said, I seem to remember an AQHA rule about disqualification for a horses head (or ears?) being below the withers for some amount of time (5 seconds maybe?).

                                  AQHA people help me out here- Do I have this correct?


                                  Anyone here ever tried reining? I'm taking my 3, almost 4 yr. old to a clinic in 2 weeks on reining. Hoping to at least get some good excercises out of it and see some of the experieinced reiners run!!<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

                                  Sandbar,

                                  The AQHA Rulebook is quiet about the length of time a horse is going too low. In Rule 463(A), Western Pleasure, it says: "He should carry his head and neck in a relaxed, natural position, with his poll level with or slightly above the level of the withers. He should not carry his head behind the veritcal, giving the appearance of intimidation, or be excessively nosed out, giving a resistant appearance. His head should be level with his nose slightly in front of the veritical, having a bright expression with his ears alert." Under (k) "Faults to be scored according to severity: 4) Excessive slowness in any gait, loss of forward momentum (Resulting in an animated and/or artificial gait at the lope.)" As to causes for disqualification, this is how Rule463(l)reads: "Faults which will be cause for disqualification, except in novice amateur or novice youth classes which shall be faults, scored according to severity: (1) Head carried too low (tip of ear below the withers consistently); (2) Overflexing or straining neck in head carriage so the nose is carried behind the vertical consistently."

                                  This is from the 2002 Rulebook as I have not yet received my 2003 version. I didn't hear of any big changes in WP for this year through the grapevine. Hope this clears things up.

                                  "She's called Lucy because she often has some 'splaining to do."

                                  Comment


                                  • Sandbar,

                                    In response to your question/comments about Reining. When you go to the clinic, see if you can get anybody to give you a test ride on a finished reiner. It is SO much fun. My background has been strictly in the rail classes until now. I bought this mare I have now who has 7 points in Reining. I wasn't looking for a reiner, just a nice quiet all-around horse. The reason I bought her, though, is when I went to try her out, I was trying all her gaits and when I transitioned from lope to whoa, she just sat down on her haunches, which took me aback a little. Her owner then gave me the correct cues and position to get her to do a real sliding stop (as much as I as a novice could get - lol) which we did and it was so much fun it made me laugh out loud. Then those spins! When you get your legs and hands in the right position (and don't interfere with the horse) and ask for the turnaround and feel that hind end drop, there's no feeling like it! I can see why reining class is so popular now. Our open shows are offering the class this year and I think I might fool around with it a little. The reining training really helps in Horsemanship, too, I've found. My mare is VERY responsive. I took my old mare to a reining clinic about 5 years ago. The beginning elements of reining (like anything) are not nearly as much fun as when they start to "get it", so I urge you again to try to beg a ride on a finished horse. It'll probably hook you!

                                    "She's called Lucy because she often has some 'splaining to do."

                                    Comment


                                    • Scotchdun: Thanks for the info. on the AQHA. I guess maybe I heard what some would consider a typical test on "consistently". Either way, the times they are a changin'!!

                                      As for the reining, I'm VERY excited about this chance and maybe someone will trust me with their "real reiner", LOL.

                                      I think reining is kind of like Dressage, the basic prinicples apply to most riding and if you make it to the upper levels it's a hell of a trip!!

                                      We'll see how my youngster comes along, but I'm getting really interested in reining. Besides, it will give me someting besides WP to enter at the APHA shows!
                                      www.sandbarequinetransport.com

                                      Proud member of the ILMD[FN]HP and Bull Snap Haters Cliques

                                      Comment


                                      • <BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by sandbarhorse:

                                        We'll see how my youngster comes along, but I'm getting really interested in reining. Besides, it will give me someting besides WP to enter at the APHA shows!<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

                                        Why don't you try Horsemanship at the APHA shows? If you're training for reining, horsemanship would be a natural. Did you say that you did dressage? If so, the pattern part would be no problem for you, either. I love the pattern classes. (Not that I'm that great at them, I just like the challenge of being precise.)

                                        "She's called Lucy because she often has some 'splaining to do."

                                        Comment


                                        • I actually wept the first time I felt a sliding stop. I was high for two hours after that lesson, instantaneously hooked!

                                          www.foalcams.com
                                          "Wherever man has left his footprint in the long ascent from barbarism to civilization, we will find the hoofprint of the horse beside it." ~John Moore

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