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As outlined in Section 230 of the Communications Decency Act, The Chronicle of the Horse and its affiliates, as well Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd., the developers of vBulletin, are not legally responsible for statements made in the forums.
This is a public forum viewed by a wide spectrum of people, so please be mindful of what you say and who might be reading it—details of personal disputes are likely better handled privately. While posters are legally responsible for their statements, the moderators may in their discretion remove or edit posts that violate these rules. Users have the ability to modify or delete their own messages after posting, but administrators generally will not delete posts, threads or accounts upon request.
Outright inflammatory, vulgar, harassing, malicious or otherwise inappropriate statements and criminal charges unsubstantiated by a reputable news source or legal documentation will not be tolerated and will be dealt with at the discretion of the moderators.
Credible threats of suicide will be reported to the police along with identifying user information at our disposal, in addition to referring the user to suicide helpline resources such as 1-800-SUICIDE or 1-800-273-TALK.
2. Conversations in horse-related forums should be horse-related.
The forums are a wonderful source of information and support for members of the horse community. While it’s understandably tempting to share information or search for input on other topics upon which members might have a similar level of knowledge, members must maintain the focus on horses.
3. Keep conversations productive, on topic and civil.
Discussion and disagreement are inevitable and encouraged; personal insults, diatribes and sniping comments are unproductive and unacceptable. Whether a subject is light-hearted or serious, keep posts focused on the current topic and of general interest to other participants of that thread. Utilize the private message feature or personal email where appropriate to address side topics or personal issues not related to the topic at large.
4. No advertising in the discussion forums.
Posts in the discussion forums directly or indirectly advertising horses, jobs, items or services for sale or wanted will be removed at the discretion of the moderators. Use of the private messaging feature or email addresses obtained through users’ profiles for unsolicited advertising is not permitted.
Company representatives may participate in discussions and answer questions about their products or services, or suggest their products on recent threads if they fulfill the criteria of a query. False "testimonials" provided by company affiliates posing as general consumers are not appropriate, and self-promotion of sales, ad campaigns, etc. through the discussion forums is not allowed.
Paid advertising is available on our classifieds site and through the purchase of banner ads. The tightly monitored Giveaways forum permits free listings of genuinely free horses and items available or wanted (on a limited basis). Items offered for trade are not allowed.
Advertising Policy Specifics
When in doubt of whether something you want to post constitutes advertising, please contact a moderator privately in advance for further clarification. Refer to the following points for general guidelines:
Horses – Only general discussion about the buying, leasing, selling and pricing of horses is permitted. If the post contains, or links to, the type of specific information typically found in a sales or wanted ad, and it’s related to a horse for sale, regardless of who’s selling it, it doesn’t belong in the discussion forums.
Stallions – Board members may ask for suggestions on breeding stallion recommendations. Stallion owners may reply to such queries by suggesting their own stallions, only if their horse fits the specific criteria of the original poster. Excessive promotion of a stallion by its owner or related parties is not permitted and will be addressed at the discretion of the moderators.
Services – Members may use the forums to ask for general recommendations of trainers, barns, shippers, farriers, etc., and other members may answer those requests by suggesting themselves or their company, if their services fulfill the specific criteria of the original post. Members may not solicit other members for business if it is not in response to a direct, genuine query.
Products – While members may ask for general opinions and suggestions on equipment, trailers, trucks, etc., they may not list the specific attributes for which they are in the market, as such posts serve as wanted ads.
Event Announcements – Members may post one notification of an upcoming event that may be of interest to fellow members, if the original poster does not benefit financially from the event. Such threads may not be “bumped” excessively. Premium members may post their own notices in the Event Announcements forum.
Charities/Rescues – Announcements for charitable or fundraising events can only be made for 501(c)(3) tax-exempt organizations. Special exceptions may be made, at the moderators’ discretion and direction, for board-related events or fundraising activities in extraordinary circumstances.
Occasional posts regarding horses available for adoption through IRS-registered horse rescue or placement programs are permitted in the appropriate forums, but these threads may be limited at the discretion of the moderators. Individuals may not advertise or make announcements for horses in need of rescue, placement or adoption unless the horse is available through a recognized rescue or placement agency or government-run entity or the thread fits the criteria for and is located in the Giveaways forum.
5. Do not post copyrighted photographs unless you have purchased that photo and have permission to do so.
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As members are often passionate about their beliefs and intentions can easily be misinterpreted in this type of environment, try to explore or resolve the inevitable disagreements that arise in the course of threads calmly and rationally.
If you see a post that you feel violates the rules of the board, please click the “alert” button (exclamation point inside of a triangle) in the bottom left corner of the post, which will alert ONLY the moderators to the post in question. They will then take whatever action, or no action, as deemed appropriate for the situation at their discretion. Do not air grievances regarding other posters or the moderators in the discussion forums.
Please be advised that adding another user to your “Ignore” list via your User Control Panel can be a useful tactic, which blocks posts and private messages by members whose commentary you’d rather avoid reading.
7. We have the right to reproduce statements made in the forums.
The Chronicle of the Horse may copy, quote, link to or otherwise reproduce posts, or portions of posts, in print or online for advertising or editorial purposes, if attributed to their original authors, and by posting in this forum, you hereby grant to The Chronicle of the Horse a perpetual, non-exclusive license under copyright and other rights, to do so.
8. We reserve the right to enforce and amend the rules.
The moderators may delete, edit, move or close any post or thread at any time, or refrain from doing any of the foregoing, in their discretion, and may suspend or revoke a user’s membership privileges at any time to maintain adherence to the rules and the general spirit of the forum. These rules may be amended at any time to address the current needs of the board.
Please see our full Terms of Service and Privacy Policy for more information.
Thanks for being a part of the COTH forums!
(Revised 2/8/18)
Board Rules
1. You’re responsible for what you say.
As outlined in Section 230 of the Communications Decency Act, The Chronicle of the Horse and its affiliates, as well Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd., the developers of vBulletin, are not legally responsible for statements made in the forums.
This is a public forum viewed by a wide spectrum of people, so please be mindful of what you say and who might be reading it—details of personal disputes are likely better handled privately. While posters are legally responsible for their statements, the moderators may in their discretion remove or edit posts that violate these rules. Users have the ability to modify or delete their own messages after posting, but administrators generally will not delete posts, threads or accounts upon request.
Outright inflammatory, vulgar, harassing, malicious or otherwise inappropriate statements and criminal charges unsubstantiated by a reputable news source or legal documentation will not be tolerated and will be dealt with at the discretion of the moderators.
Credible threats of suicide will be reported to the police along with identifying user information at our disposal, in addition to referring the user to suicide helpline resources such as 1-800-SUICIDE or 1-800-273-TALK.
2. Conversations in horse-related forums should be horse-related.
The forums are a wonderful source of information and support for members of the horse community. While it’s understandably tempting to share information or search for input on other topics upon which members might have a similar level of knowledge, members must maintain the focus on horses.
3. Keep conversations productive, on topic and civil.
Discussion and disagreement are inevitable and encouraged; personal insults, diatribes and sniping comments are unproductive and unacceptable. Whether a subject is light-hearted or serious, keep posts focused on the current topic and of general interest to other participants of that thread. Utilize the private message feature or personal email where appropriate to address side topics or personal issues not related to the topic at large.
4. No advertising in the discussion forums.
Posts in the discussion forums directly or indirectly advertising horses, jobs, items or services for sale or wanted will be removed at the discretion of the moderators. Use of the private messaging feature or email addresses obtained through users’ profiles for unsolicited advertising is not permitted.
Company representatives may participate in discussions and answer questions about their products or services, or suggest their products on recent threads if they fulfill the criteria of a query. False "testimonials" provided by company affiliates posing as general consumers are not appropriate, and self-promotion of sales, ad campaigns, etc. through the discussion forums is not allowed.
Paid advertising is available on our classifieds site and through the purchase of banner ads. The tightly monitored Giveaways forum permits free listings of genuinely free horses and items available or wanted (on a limited basis). Items offered for trade are not allowed.
Advertising Policy Specifics
When in doubt of whether something you want to post constitutes advertising, please contact a moderator privately in advance for further clarification. Refer to the following points for general guidelines:
Horses – Only general discussion about the buying, leasing, selling and pricing of horses is permitted. If the post contains, or links to, the type of specific information typically found in a sales or wanted ad, and it’s related to a horse for sale, regardless of who’s selling it, it doesn’t belong in the discussion forums.
Stallions – Board members may ask for suggestions on breeding stallion recommendations. Stallion owners may reply to such queries by suggesting their own stallions, only if their horse fits the specific criteria of the original poster. Excessive promotion of a stallion by its owner or related parties is not permitted and will be addressed at the discretion of the moderators.
Services – Members may use the forums to ask for general recommendations of trainers, barns, shippers, farriers, etc., and other members may answer those requests by suggesting themselves or their company, if their services fulfill the specific criteria of the original post. Members may not solicit other members for business if it is not in response to a direct, genuine query.
Products – While members may ask for general opinions and suggestions on equipment, trailers, trucks, etc., they may not list the specific attributes for which they are in the market, as such posts serve as wanted ads.
Event Announcements – Members may post one notification of an upcoming event that may be of interest to fellow members, if the original poster does not benefit financially from the event. Such threads may not be “bumped” excessively. Premium members may post their own notices in the Event Announcements forum.
Charities/Rescues – Announcements for charitable or fundraising events can only be made for 501(c)(3) tax-exempt organizations. Special exceptions may be made, at the moderators’ discretion and direction, for board-related events or fundraising activities in extraordinary circumstances.
Occasional posts regarding horses available for adoption through IRS-registered horse rescue or placement programs are permitted in the appropriate forums, but these threads may be limited at the discretion of the moderators. Individuals may not advertise or make announcements for horses in need of rescue, placement or adoption unless the horse is available through a recognized rescue or placement agency or government-run entity or the thread fits the criteria for and is located in the Giveaways forum.
5. Do not post copyrighted photographs unless you have purchased that photo and have permission to do so.
6. Respect other members.
As members are often passionate about their beliefs and intentions can easily be misinterpreted in this type of environment, try to explore or resolve the inevitable disagreements that arise in the course of threads calmly and rationally.
If you see a post that you feel violates the rules of the board, please click the “alert” button (exclamation point inside of a triangle) in the bottom left corner of the post, which will alert ONLY the moderators to the post in question. They will then take whatever action, or no action, as deemed appropriate for the situation at their discretion. Do not air grievances regarding other posters or the moderators in the discussion forums.
Please be advised that adding another user to your “Ignore” list via your User Control Panel can be a useful tactic, which blocks posts and private messages by members whose commentary you’d rather avoid reading.
7. We have the right to reproduce statements made in the forums.
The Chronicle of the Horse may copy, quote, link to or otherwise reproduce posts, or portions of posts, in print or online for advertising or editorial purposes, if attributed to their original authors, and by posting in this forum, you hereby grant to The Chronicle of the Horse a perpetual, non-exclusive license under copyright and other rights, to do so.
8. We reserve the right to enforce and amend the rules.
The moderators may delete, edit, move or close any post or thread at any time, or refrain from doing any of the foregoing, in their discretion, and may suspend or revoke a user’s membership privileges at any time to maintain adherence to the rules and the general spirit of the forum. These rules may be amended at any time to address the current needs of the board.
Please see our full Terms of Service and Privacy Policy for more information.
Thanks for being a part of the COTH forums!
(Revised 2/8/18)
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Potential buyers are making me crazy (Formerly: Crazy guy from Ohio thread)
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He's 12 hours away and wants to show up at 9 am? Very weird.In memory of Apache, who loved to play. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MjZAqeg7HyE
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Originally posted by SuckerForHorses View PostJust got a text.
"Please let me come try him on the 20th at 9 am"
So now he's available on Sunday?! Good grief. I'm not replying, just thought I'd update here
If I hear from him again I'll call my cell provider and have his number blocked.
the problem is you are too nice and obeying the social niceties. He is not, when told the horse is not for sale to him, instead of just saying thank you, he persists.
since he is not playing by social niceties, just ignore him and block his number.
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I have to agree with everyone else that it was best to walk away from the sale. I've been selling horses and ponies for the better part of 20 years. There have been some great Buyers over the years...and then there is always that "one", and your gut continues to scream through the entire sale. It ends up feeling like you are stuck in a bad marriage and cannot get out and it just goes downhill from there. I find people like this Buyer are just not worth the effort, as they often come with further demands as the sale moves along. This type of Buyer also tends to haunt you long after the sale has gone through. It is just not worth the drama and stress that goes along with it.
I would bet money on the fact that, if he had showed up to see your horse, he would have tried and manipulate you further, get you to lower the price, add guarantees, demands, etc. Definitely run the other way!
www.DaventryEquestrian.com
Home of Welsh Cob stallion Goldhills Brandysnap
Also home to Daventry Equine Appraisals & Equine Expert Witness
www.EquineAppraisers.com
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Wow. Just, wow. Yeah, this guy is not worth all of this hassle for a $4K sale.Originally posted by SuckerForHorses View PostI've dated a guy with similar behaviors...I said from the beginning this guy reminded me of my ex. Guess my gut still remembers and recognizes some stuff!
He replied...I'll add when I'm on a computer, too hard from my little phone. So, check back! I did not and will not reply. No sense feeding the beast.
On a good note, had a serious inquiry moments after telling this guy off. Spoke on phone, seems promising, and they are within the state
they are coming Sunday to give him a try. Sometimes things happen for a reason!
Good luck with your local folks. You're all aware of the time change tonight, right?"In the beginning, the universe was created. This made a lot of people angry and has widely been considered as a bad move." -Douglas Adams
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If he really wanted this horse so badly, he'd just wire you the entire purchase price and arrange for shipping without all this drama. There are many of us who have bought horses from far away, sight unseen ... just getting a PPE first (the only time I didn't do that I got burned, so lesson learned).
The price isn't that steep not to take a chance when he is going gaga over this horse, who is in work now and not being sold by a horse dealer.
OP, you are going to feel a lot more comfortable with a local sale, I promise you.
Edit: the very fact that he's willing to drive 12 hours one way without getting a PPE beforehand, just to try the horse in an unfamiliar environment (which doesn't tell you anything, I think first rides are virtually useless unless you hate the horse at first sight), raises many red flags, that's for sure. And now the texting...nope.
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Well now you know why he likes your gelding. Frankly, if I had a buyer who gave the reasons for liking my horse were that he recognizes his breeding, has admired the horse's sire and seen him work, and obviously has a connection with my horse I would stop making it so hard for him to see him, try him and buy him.
I don't know how much a better fit you think you're going to find for your horse who needs a new carreer. What are you looking for, a roper who admires your horse's breeding, has some horse friends with nice facilities and horses, wants to move your horse into his bred-for genre who what, lives closer to you?
The guy ropes and team pens. How bad to you think he rides?
I wouldn't drive the horse to the guy either, probably, but I also wouldn't keep perseverating on what and how the buyer was going to ride or handle the horse after he bought him. Somewhere along the line you are going to have to let go of the horse. Either that or keep him.
A good fit of a guy wants your horse enough to put up with the road blocks you keep throwing at him. How about calling the school and getting the soonest time slot available for this guy to ride him? I mean, if you really want to sell the horse. That's something you could do for the buyer, to facilitate the sale and acknowlege that he really is coming a fair ways to see the horse.
I think you'd be lucky if this guy actually still comes out to try him. He's trying to make the deal as good as he can for you, because he WANTS TO BUY YOUR HORSE. Sorry for the caps. You can wring your hands all day about what might or might not happen if you try to go through with the sale. None of that matters until you just meet the guy with the honest intention to sell him the horse if at all possible. Sell the guy the horse.My warmbloods have actually drunk mulled wine in the past. Not today though. A drunk warmblood is a surly warmblood. - WildandWickedWarmbloods
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I don't think that part of the story is odd. If it were me driving 12 hours, I'd get there a day prior and get a motel room, try the horse in the morning, purchase it if I wanted, and drive back.Originally posted by Malda View PostHe's 12 hours away and wants to show up at 9 am? Very weird.
I wouldn't do the rest of the stuff he's done, but that part I would.Originally posted by Rumorhasit93Just because AmeriCAN doesn't mean you AmeriSHOULD.
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You have a very generous view of this person, that is filling in all of the blanks with the most positive interpretation. Normally I'm in favor of giving benefit of the doubt, but let's review:Originally posted by Ambitious Kate View Post....I think you'd be lucky if this guy actually still comes out to try him. He's trying to make the deal as good as he can for you, because he WANTS TO BUY YOUR HORSE. Sorry for the caps. You can wring your hands all day about what might or might not happen if you try to go through with the sale. None of that matters until you just meet the guy with the honest intention to sell him the horse if at all possible. Sell the guy the horse.
He's willing to spend 100s on gas (not to mention 24hr of driving time) to pick the horse up, but not willing to pay for a vet visit and a few xrays. Instead he asked for a guarantee of soundness from the seller. When she declined, he said, ok but give me "your word." Refusal to take No for an answer is a big red flag--he does not respect boundaries.
He's been pushy about asking her to drive the horse part-way to him, asking again even when she said no, and then dismissed her reasons as not valid. Again, refusal to take no for an answer.
He's changed his pickup times, and when that didn't work, said that her family should step in to help her. More boundaries violated.
And his over-the-top text and voicemail behavior (I forget the actual number, but something like 12 texts in a row followed by multiple voicemails??)-- that is simply not rational adult behavior. It's just not.
And he's been told very clearly the sale is off, TWICE, and he's ignoring that and continuing to press for an appointment time, completely bypassing the fact that she said the sale is off. She didn't say I can't make that date work.
Finally, what competent horseman thinks he can use a horse for roping the very week he bought him, when he knows the horse has had zero roping training.
All of this points to a PITA, drama-filled sale with very questionable outcome. Nothing the OP has said makes me think she's a control freak who can't let go of her horse. The only person that exudes "freak" here is this guy.
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You summarized it perfectly.Originally posted by HungarianHippo View PostYou have a very generous view of this person, that is filling in all of the blanks with the most positive interpretation. Normally I'm in favor of giving benefit of the doubt, but let's review:
He's willing to spend 100s on gas (not to mention 24hr of driving time) to pick the horse up, but not willing to pay for a vet visit and a few xrays. Instead he asked for a guarantee of soundness from the seller. When she declined, he said, ok but give me "your word." Refusal to take No for an answer is a big red flag--he does not respect boundaries.
He's been pushy about asking her to drive the horse part-way to him, asking again even when she said no, and then dismissed her reasons as not valid. Again, refusal to take no for an answer.
He's changed his pickup times, and when that didn't work, said that her family should step in to help her. More boundaries violated.
And his over-the-top text and voicemail behavior (I forget the actual number, but something like 12 texts in a row followed by multiple voicemails??)-- that is simply not rational adult behavior. It's just not.
And he's been told very clearly the sale is off, TWICE, and he's ignoring that and continuing to press for an appointment time, completely bypassing the fact that she said the sale is off. She didn't say I can't make that date work.
Finally, what competent horseman thinks he can use a horse for roping the very week he bought him, when he knows the horse has had zero roping training.
All of this points to a PITA, drama-filled sale with very questionable outcome. Nothing the OP has said makes me think she's a control freak who can't let go of her horse. The only person that exudes "freak" here is this guy."If you think nobody cares about you, try missing a couple payments..."
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Not that I feel like I have to explain my decision to turn this guy away but I do not need to sell this horse. I want to sell him but when my gut is telling me that somebody is Shady, I have the luxury of turning them away. This horse is not just some horse that I want to unload at the first opportunity. I will do my due diligence to make sure that whoever does by him is the best match for him."If you think nobody cares about you, try missing a couple payments..."
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I promise all buyers aren't this nuts, SFH.
I'm glad this guy showed you who he was before you either hauled, had him show up, etc etc.
I think your gut instinct is right on. Who knows what this guy's issue is, but it's pretty darned clear he has one.
Your horse is lucky to have you in charge of finding his next family."Aye God, Woodrow..."
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Yup.Originally posted by SuckerForHorses View PostYou summarized it perfectly.
I was initially against jumping to negative conclusions (since a few posters seemed to say that even looking for a horse that far away was somehow suspicious in itself, which is redic), but he's very pushy and the repeated demand for "your word" on soundness would get my hackles up.Proud Member Of The Lady Mafia
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I bought my forever pony for driving on CL,too.Originally posted by candyappy View PostThis is so untrue.
I found the perfect owner for one of mine from craigslist. He has trained him in dressage, is competing and 3 years later he is still singing his praises and thanking me for such a great boy.
I found my daughters current horse 5 years ago on craigslist. We have given her a great home and she is a great horse.
Yes, I did have to turn away some " interesting characters" and I talked to some shady sellers too. There are just as many on the equine only internet sites.
If you don't want to sell to him be honest. Tell him you don't think the horse is a good candidate for roping and move on.
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He reminds me very much of a neighbor who stalked me (past tense- thanks LEOs!). No respect for boundaries; only focused on what he wants. You're right to ignore him and to warn barn staff. In fact, I might even request the school turn him out in the least visible location possible.
FWIW, if you have an iPhone you can block him yourself. Just go to his contact and then scroll to the bottom and click "block this caller". It is a very handy feature."Je suis Pony Owner."
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he's discontinued the texting. ..for now...hopefully I've heard the last from him.
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