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VA Legislation Alert! "Volunteers" can come on your property

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  • I always read everyone's posts. Otherwise I would not have known to correct LLDM on a couple of points, or been able to offer my thoughts on the subject. I don't recall calling anyone a liar - that would be out of character for me. I do call people ignorant a lot. That's not an insult.

    If my posts bother you so much, then just put me on your ignore list. Everyone on this BB eventually disagrees with another poster. Animal welfare is a deadly serious subject for me and though I don't like to speak publicly about it - there isn't much else to talk about on this BB except whether or not a particular saddle makes ones butt look too big.

    This was a Bill in MY state legislature. I had information about it I thought I'd share since the subject was brought up. RNB and others commented upon the dual agency Bill - also a Bill in the legislature. If I thought it would help I'd post my thoughts on why that Bill was killed. But I have no doubt that there would be people accusing me of scare tactics or slippery slope arguments so why bother.

    The reason I brought up PETA and HSUS, in this thread, was because those are the groups that lobbied for this Bill. If the NRA or Paris Hilton had lobbied for it I would have mentioned them too. And I would have been forthright and direct and just as critical.

    If I had an agenda I would not waste my time on the COTH BB. I'd be out trying to take over the world so I could realize my dream of outlawing spandex on fat women. There really oughta be a law.

    Just sayin.

    Originally posted by equinelaw View Post

    I see you as an extremist just like you see PETA. You throw PETA and HSUS around and constantly tell me, and others, they will come for my animals soon.

    I do not really care much about you at all to peer through my computer screen. I mostly ignore you unless you are being funny, but you seem to always want to STOP things from happening or PETA will come and take your animals away!

    I do read your posts. I am not sure you re-read them when someone responds to them. I do not have an agenda. You do.

    Here is an example of convincing vs rhetoric. Typical slaughter thread. County, who has posted 5,000 posts on the topic does the math and shows me that there is a 99.5% chance most horses will not end up at slaughter. That's a powerful statement.
    Last edited by JSwan; Feb. 6, 2009, 09:20 PM.
    Brothers and sisters, I bid you beware
    Of giving your heart to a dog to tear.
    -Rudyard Kipling

    Comment


    • I disagree. Spandex actually pulls in the fat and smooshes it into a tighter, less blubbery package.

      Spandex is what girdles are made out of, so it must be good for hiding fat.

      Comment


      • If only that were true.
        Evidence:
        http://bikehugger.com/images/blog/fa...andex-1-01.jpg
        You jump in the saddle,
        Hold onto the bridle!
        Jump in the line!
        ...Belefonte

        Comment


        • Do you have a picture of the same man naked so that we might compare smooshiness?

          Please say no!

          Comment


          • Originally posted by JSwan View Post
            What you're really saying is that you don't care about what happens to other people as long as nothing you like to do is targeted. So - if I like to hunt or fish, it's ok to target me because you don't like to do those things.

            I take it back. You'd not be a good Humane Investigator. Law enforcement officers aren't supposed to go around enforcing their own personal moral code. They're supposed to enforce the law.

            I didn't get that out of what EL said. But then again, I am not looking to discredit EL either. Nor did EL say or imply that their moral code was superior, just what it was and that under those circumstances was not likely to run afoul of PETA. EL in no way disparaged you or yours.

            By all means invite PETA down to Aiken. Keep an eye on your dogs - they tend to disappear when their little white van is on the road. If your dogs do go missing, look for their bodies in the nearest shopping center dumpster.

            Again, just because PETA is wrong, it doesn't make you any more right.

            Many people in this state prefer to spend what resources we have on professional development and hiring of paid ACO's - not divert resources to train or handle complaints from HI's. Our law enforcement agencies agree. Though many localities suffer budget problems, I don't know of one jurisdiction that has laid off ACO's. We're doing fine, thanks.

            Sorry, but I don't buy that you personally know what most of the people in the state of Virginia think. I am glad that the people you know are doing fine. Why don't you call up one or two of the better, more professional rescues and ask them how they think it's going, if they think it's all fine and if they really don't need any more help from anyone - especially in counties and the municipalities with no ACOs. How about you personally keep tabs on how many ACOs get to keep their jobs in the next year?

            Since none of y'all appear to have read what I'd written - this program was discontinued several years ago because of problems with HI's. This Bill was not a stand alone Bill. There are others that complemented it.

            While I will buy that this program had problems, I am not sure I buy that it was a complete and total failure. Are you sure no animals were helped? You say you respect your HI, so there is at least one you don't think is worthless. I really hope she doesn't stumble across this thread though. Ouch.

            You already know for a fact that HSUS lies. You witnessed it firsthand. Do you really think that if such people become HI's they will suddenly stop lying?

            I tend to agree with EL here - everyone lies at some point or under some circumstances. You said it yourself, no one is wearing a halo. No one.

            We tried this program. It didn't work and made things worse. If you'd like to have such a program, by all means contact your elected representatives and ask them to patron a Bill. In YOUR state.

            I really dislike absolutes. In a way, claiming absolutes IS a form of truth-stretching, even though it is "just" to make a point. Again, are you sure not one animal was helped by this program? I believe some things may have been made "worse". And it may have been more trouble than the Commonwealth was willing to deal with. But since there still seem to be HI's out there who do not "suck" something decent must have happened once upon a time too. So in my mind, it might just well be worth trying to fix.

            LLDM - I responded politely to your post and would appreciate you at least letting me know you read it. I meant no offense but was only trying to provide a tiny bit of background information so folks could place this Bill into context. If I went into great detail I'd probably crash the COTH servers....

            With all due respect, if you quote me, address me directly and refer to my personal business in a derogatory way, I think I get to take offense, even if you swear up and down none was intended. I'd really hate to be on your bad side. No offense though. Really.
            SCFarm
            The above post is an opinion, just an opinion. If it were a real live fact it would include supporting links to websites full of people who already agreed with me.

            www.southern-cross-farm.com

            Comment


            • Do you have a picture of the same man naked so that we might compare smooshiness?

              Please say no!
              LOL...you're lucky we have younger readers on this BB. I just did a google image search for Fat Naked Man...came up with some REALLY scary stuff I could have posted in response, but my inner-mom got the better of me and I won't scar the younger generation of female posters.
              You jump in the saddle,
              Hold onto the bridle!
              Jump in the line!
              ...Belefonte

              Comment


              • Originally posted by MistyBlue View Post
                LOL...you're lucky we have younger readers on this BB. I just did a google image search for Fat Naked Man...came up with some REALLY scary stuff I could have posted in response, but my inner-mom got the better of me and I won't scar the younger generation of female posters.
                Thank God for that. I still can't get the picture out of my head of when I used to live in L.A. We are riding and a half naked heavily , heavily overweight guy with small shorts was walking in the trail. Granted it was hot-my mare spooked and hesitated to go past. At the risk of being called -well whatever it is I will be called-some people should not be allowed to walk shirtless and short shorts!

                Comment


                • Originally posted by LLDM View Post
                  SCFarm
                  Well - I can't figure out how to quote what you wrote so hopefully this makes sense.

                  Sorry that you think I was singling you out. What I was trying to get across is that there are many people who would consider you one of the bad guys. I don't. I was pretty clear about that actually.

                  I already wrote that I consider the local HI a good egg. I wish they had all been like her. No need to write, "ouch", because I wrote that my comments were not directed at her. However, I don't think state and local resources need to be diverted to completely revamp a program that could be better spent on ACO's and related activities. Believe it or not, these things don't just appear out of thin air. There is no reason to spend money to fix a failed program when the resources can be better utilized to increase training opportunities, hire and retain ACO's, and fund associated animal control activities.

                  What disturbs me is that none of you have mentioned other Bills pending in the legislature that do help ACO's do their job. Didn't get an action alert about them? Not surprised.

                  Did you know about the ACO that was killed in the line of duty? Remember - these are law enforcement officers. Have any of you supported that Bill? No?

                  How many Virginians bother to work with their local government to make sure ACO's and shelter operations are included in the county budgets? Can't be done? Defeatist attitude - I hate that. It can and is done.

                  Just because the possibility exists that a county employee may be laid off does not justify throwing up our hands and passing poorly thought out laws.

                  My comments about halos was an attempt to defend you and defuse the personal attack made by another poster. I'm disappointed you did not see that. None of us should be forced to disclose personal information.

                  The comment had nothing to do with lying and everything to do with trying to keep the thread on topic.

                  Unfortunately, it seems some of you are determined to see fights and slights where none are intended. Too bad.

                  Hopefully some of you are voicing support or opposition to the other animal related Bills in the legislature, and not just bitching on the Internet about how "nothing" is being done .

                  Finally - please remember that I do work in rescue. I'm pretty cognizant of how many rescues are overflowing. I'm not ignorant of the challenges poorer counties face. But many rescues are still taking dogs from out of state while in state dogs are being put down at shelters. Dogs are being shipped all over the place. Horse rescues are full, too. That's old news.

                  That's not a reason to support this Bill.
                  Brothers and sisters, I bid you beware
                  Of giving your heart to a dog to tear.
                  -Rudyard Kipling

                  Comment


                  • Originally posted by JSwan View Post
                    Well - I can't figure out how to quote what you wrote so hopefully this makes sense.

                    Sorry that you think I was singling you out. What I was trying to get across is that there are many people who would consider you one of the bad guys. I don't. I was pretty clear about that actually.

                    I already wrote that I consider the local HI a good egg. I wish they had all been like her. No need to write, "ouch", because I wrote that my comments were not directed at her. However, I don't think state and local resources need to be diverted to completely revamp a program that could be better spent on ACO's and related activities. Believe it or not, these things don't just appear out of thin air. There is no reason to spend money to fix a failed program when the resources can be better utilized to increase training opportunities, hire and retain ACO's, and fund associated animal control activities.

                    What disturbs me is that none of you have mentioned other Bills pending in the legislature that do help ACO's do their job. Didn't get an action alert about them? Not surprised.

                    Did you know about the ACO that was killed in the line of duty? Remember - these are law enforcement officers. Have any of you supported that Bill? No?

                    How many Virginians bother to work with their local government to make sure ACO's and shelter operations are included in the county budgets? Can't be done? Defeatist attitude - I hate that. It can and is done.

                    Just because the possibility exists that a county employee may be laid off does not justify throwing up our hands and passing poorly thought out laws.

                    My comments about halos was an attempt to defend you and defuse the personal attack made by another poster. I'm disappointed you did not see that. None of us should be forced to disclose personal information.

                    The comment had nothing to do with lying and everything to do with trying to keep the thread on topic.

                    Unfortunately, it seems some of you are determined to see fights and slights where none are intended. Too bad.

                    Hopefully some of you are voicing support or opposition to the other animal related Bills in the legislature, and not just bitching on the Internet about how "nothing" is being done .

                    Finally - please remember that I do work in rescue. I'm pretty cognizant of how many rescues are overflowing. I'm not ignorant of the challenges poorer counties face. But many rescues are still taking dogs from out of state while in state dogs are being put down at shelters. Dogs are being shipped all over the place. Horse rescues are full, too. That's old news.

                    That's not a reason to support this Bill.
                    That's weird. It ended at "nothing" for about the first 10 minutes. Then it corrected.

                    No of course I do not do those things. I ever get mixed up in politics.

                    Comment


                    • Originally posted by equinelaw View Post
                      That's weird. It ended at "nothing" for about the first 10 minutes. Then it corrected.

                      No of course I do not do those things. I ever get mixed up in politics.
                      I noticed that too - it was a typo and I went back and corrected it.

                      I loathe politics and feel the need to take a long hot shower when exposed. Lather, rinse, repeat. I stay out of the fray.

                      But if any Virginians would like to support the Bill increasing the penalty for assaulting an ACO, I'd be happy to PM you a link to the Bill. There is another Bill that would extend the coverage of a protective order to animals. I know people feel strongly about that one but heck - either pro or con just call or write your legislator.

                      They don't bite.
                      Brothers and sisters, I bid you beware
                      Of giving your heart to a dog to tear.
                      -Rudyard Kipling

                      Comment


                      • JSwan - Who is being defensive again?

                        Originally posted by JSwan View Post
                        Sorry that you think I was singling you out. What I was trying to get across is that there are many people who would consider you one of the bad guys. I don't. I was pretty clear about that actually.

                        I was simply pointing out the dichotomy between what you were doing and what you were saying about it. I am not offended, just a little confused. And having the right to be offended is not the same as *being* offended. Actually, I was sort of amused. On a side note: No one likes to be singled out and made an example of. I would have felt no better had you used some other breeder as an example.

                        I already wrote that I consider the local HI a good egg. I wish they had all been like her. No need to write, "ouch", because I wrote that my comments were not directed at her.

                        I was agreeing with you. However, If I were her, your comments might be pretty hard to take. I am sort of surprised you can't see that.

                        However, I don't think state and local resources need to be diverted to completely revamp a program that could be better spent on ACO's and related activities. Believe it or not, these things don't just appear out of thin air. There is no reason to spend money to fix a failed program when the resources can be better utilized to increase training opportunities, hire and retain ACO's, and fund associated animal control activities.

                        This is what I really don't understand. I would *really* appreciate some more detailed information on this point. How much money is associated with this program? What budget does it come out of? Will that money be made available for the alternatives you describe if this Bill fails? At the local level or the state level? How many ACOs will not be hired in order to accommodate this volunteer program?

                        What disturbs me is that none of you have mentioned other Bills pending in the legislature that do help ACO's do their job. Didn't get an action alert about them? Not surprised.

                        Did you know about the ACO that was killed in the line of duty? Remember - these are law enforcement officers. Have any of you supported that Bill? No?

                        No, to both - guilty as charged. I have not supported them. I know nothing about them. Haven't fought them either. Do they need support? Is there any controversy about them? Is there an action alert you would like to pass along? I usually let the people who are actually educated about such things handle them unless they ask for help. When someone does ask for help with a Bill, I generally expect them (and their fellows) to be able to explain it and defend their opinions without getting defensive (or abusive).

                        How many Virginians bother to work with their local government to make sure ACO's and shelter operations are included in the county budgets? Aside from voting for the folks who tend to support such things? Nope. Can't be done? No one said that. Defeatist attitude - I hate that. It can and is done. WTF are you talking about? I *DO* support my local government's shelter operations - and our ACO's are mostly very good. But *MY* local government is in good financial shape compared to most in this state. My concern here the majority the small counties with lots of animals and very, very few resources to help the ones in trouble.

                        Just because the possibility exists that a county employee may be laid off does not justify throwing up our hands and passing poorly thought out laws.

                        JSwan, with all do respect, I *never* said it should be passed as is. My whole entire point was that people who were from out of state and had no idea what was going on here might want to mind their own business. AND I wanted to know what so was darn bad about a Bill that seemed, on its surface, to be helpful and cost effective.

                        And although it's been like pulling teeth, I've gotten an education on the objectionable nature of this bill.

                        So, my next question was along the lines of 'can it be fixed?' I mean really, before we throw the baby out with the bathwater and frustrate our legislators (by appearing as alarmists, reactionaries or zealots) are there positive changes in the Bill we could request as the *reason* we are coming out against *THIS* particular piece of legislation?

                        I thought this track would be much more positive and effective than reading some (sorry Anne FS) poorly worded, vague, kinda alarmist post on CoTH and winging off some uninformed email to my local senator and congressman.

                        Damn, you would have thought I wanted to start WWIII.

                        My comments about halos was an attempt to defend you and defuse the personal attack made by another poster. I'm disappointed you did not see that. None of us should be forced to disclose personal information.

                        Um, I was agreeing with you. And thank you.

                        The comment had nothing to do with lying and everything to do with trying to keep the thread on topic.

                        And I was just trying to support EL's point about "lying" - which, if I am not mistaken, was a counter argument to the whole idea that proving PETA lies about some things does not prove that their opposition never lies and is right about any particular issue. Lying isn't always black and white. The whole point of real debate is to present one's point in as positive a light as possible. In that vein, on man's exaggeration is another man's lie. Again, I didn't read EL's statement as personal against you (although I know how easy it is to feel that way - ) , but as a general statement about human nature.

                        Unfortunately, it seems some of you are determined to see fights and slights where none are intended. Too bad.

                        At this point, I think we are all a bit guilty of that.

                        Hopefully some of you are voicing support or opposition to the other animal related Bills in the legislature, Here's were I get so frustrated. This statement is just fine. and not just bitching on the Internet about how "nothing" is being done . But this makes a leap of logic that is simply NOT in evidence. I jumped into this thread for the exact *OPPOSITE* reason. The call to people to *STOP* a Bill that was not so bad, IMO from what was posted, and did not follow logically. And I was slightly incensed that out of state people wanted to effect the passage of a Bill in MY state on information that seemed IMO very misleading.

                        Finally - please remember that I do work in rescue. I'm pretty cognizant of how many rescues are overflowing. I'm not ignorant of the challenges poorer counties face. But many rescues are still taking dogs from out of state while in state dogs are being put down at shelters. Dogs are being shipped all over the place. Horse rescues are full, too. That's old news.

                        That's not a reason to support this Bill.

                        I do challenge you or anyone to find anywhere that I have called for anyone to actually support this Bill. I have repeated asked what was wrong with it, why and how it could be fixed (or if it could be fixed). No, I refused to jump on the bandwagon of people actively trying to stop this Bill without a whole lot more information being presented. By that time the Bill had already been defeated.

                        What are your ideas for helping the poor counties and the animals in those counties?
                        SCFarm
                        The above post is an opinion, just an opinion. If it were a real live fact it would include supporting links to websites full of people who already agreed with me.

                        www.southern-cross-farm.com

                        Comment


                        • This is where the English language fails. There is no plural "You". It's hard to jump back and forth from making a general comment and a specific one. German is much better but I need a lot of Scotch to remember all the verbs.

                          I wrote before that if I got into the detail necessary to explain everything I'd crash the COTH servers. I tried to condense it as much as possible. I draw the line at public/private partnerships in a different place than you.

                          Nor do I wish to discuss what's before the legislature. There are many Bills that could affect animal owners and it's up to the individual to read them and pass along their thoughts to their representative. The LIS is up and running and all citizens have access.

                          During the year there are countless opportunities for citizens to voice their thoughts on various regulations proposed. There are opportunities for all citizens at the local level too. It does take time to read up and become familiar with the details and background and players, as well as the complexities of many of these programs. It can take an enormous amount of time.

                          It's a bit unfair to ask a person to explain it ten words or less. In fact, the only way to be concise is to issue a blanket statement and then one can't help but sound like Rush Limbaugh.

                          In other words, I can't make it easy for folks to become educated and I'm no longer very interested in trying.

                          ETA - I cannot express how quickly the Bill went down the drain. There was no interest in patronage. The only patron dropped out and another was found right before the filing deadline. No law enforcement agency supported it. VACA and the VHC did not support it. The AG did not support it. It was quickly assigned to a subcommittee and tabled unanimously. That is why action alerts went out - because the Bill had NO support from the first. I don't know how to express how unpopular this program was and how much strong resistance there is to opening it back up again. What else can I say? It failed and fails every time.

                          There are other good Bills that merit consideration and I'd encourage you to read up on those and voice your opinion if you'd like.

                          A while back there was a comment period on a regulation that would have affected every horse owner in the state. It was regarding the Coggins requirements. I tried to get people to write with their comments and was met with silence.

                          One definition of insanity is doing the same thing over and over and expecting a different result. So residents of this state who wish to participate go forth and do what you will. Or don't.
                          Last edited by JSwan; Feb. 7, 2009, 11:20 AM.
                          Brothers and sisters, I bid you beware
                          Of giving your heart to a dog to tear.
                          -Rudyard Kipling

                          Comment


                          • Originally posted by equinelaw View Post
                            However, I do not hunt with hounds, I do not hunt with guns or arrows, wear fur, I do not abuse, starve, or breed my animals. I do not buy and sell animals. I do not feel any present or near future threat from AR groups at all.
                            I do not believe the slippery slope argument has any merit at all. Society changes over time. One day we may think pets are obsolete. That does not mean a small minority will force us to give up our pets. It means the majority will.
                            Do you use leather products? Do your pets benefit from training of medical personel, development of procedures/drugs using animals?

                            Originally posted by Guilherme View Post
                            As a result of the debacle in our county, TN law now requires that a vet, county extension agent, or designated person with specific training in the husbandry of large animals swear by affadavit that large animals are being kept in cruel conditions before a court an order a siezure.
                            And so it should.

                            Originally posted by JSwan View Post
                            I think it's bad public policy, in this context, to give a very large pool of volunteers law enforcement authority.

                            That's a legitimate concern and simply an expression of a different view than yours. It's not unusual for a citizen to express reservations about special interest groups. Whether at the federal, state or local level, many people just plain dislike the influence they have.
                            I TOTALLY agree!

                            PETA's agenda is only to create "ads" for their fundraising. The more outrageous their acts, the more attention they get. Just think of all the good the money to pay for a Super Bowl Ad could really do. Instead, it just goes to more fundraising.

                            What I personally REALLY wish, is that eveyone would be as concerned with obese horses, as they are with ones that are too thin. Can I go onto a property and get a warrant to remove horses so severely overweight they are in danger of foundering? Lame horses that are packing an extra 100 lbs on their painful feet/legs? Why is there no one fighting for those animals? Recent studies show that about 60% of all horses are seriously overweight. What about the torture being done to severely overweight cats and dogs. I think vets should be able to seize them at their offices. They sure see enough of those.

                            The thing I see that is so worrysome to me are the seizures of 30, 50 etc horses, and only 1 or 2 are seriously underweight. That to me points more to a specific horse issue, rather than a neglect problem. The power to do that needs to be taken away, not enhanced.

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                            • Originally posted by JSwan View Post
                              This is where the English language fails. There is no plural "You".
                              Is, too! We just have to convince people in other parts of the country that y'all is always plural.

                              Some non-southerners think we use it to address one person - for example, asking the waiter, "Do y'all have sweet tea?" - but we mean y'all as in the restaurant owner and staff. We tend to think in collective terms more so than folks in other parts of the country, IME. But I digress.

                              equinelaw - I know you didn't mean to imply animal ownership could ever be equated with human slavery, right?
                              I'm not ignoring the rules. I'm interpreting the rules. Tamal, The Great British Baking Show

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                              • Originally posted by pAin't_Misbehavin' View Post
                                Is, too! We just have to convince people in other parts of the country that y'all is always plural.

                                Some non-southerners think we use it to address one person - for example, asking the waiter, "Do y'all have sweet tea?" - but we mean y'all as in the restaurant owner and staff. We tend to think in collective terms more so than folks in other parts of the country, IME. But I digress.

                                equinelaw - I know you didn't mean to imply animal ownership could ever be equated with human slavery, right?
                                Beg to differ, here. "Y'all" is singular; "all Y'all" is plural.

                                G.
                                Mangalarga Marchador: Uma Raça, Uma Paixão

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                                • Originally posted by Guilherme View Post
                                  Beg to differ, here. "Y'all" is singular; "all Y'all" is plural.

                                  G.
                                  No, no. Being a social people, we need a super-plural to indicate everyone is welcome - "all y'all come over after church Sunday." Or, if you are in the Appalachians, "y'uns" and "y'unses" serve the same purpose.
                                  I'm not ignoring the rules. I'm interpreting the rules. Tamal, The Great British Baking Show

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                                  • Originally posted by pAin't_Misbehavin' View Post
                                    equinelaw - I know you didn't mean to imply animal ownership could ever be equated with human slavery, right?
                                    It definitely does!

                                    They come into the kitchen and purposely trip me to order up their IMMEDIATE dinner. They wake me out of a sound sleep to let them in and out. Then they make me stand in the freezing cold in my barefeet, while they bark at a shadow, do nothing, but sniff around, refusing to come in. They take great joy in waiting until I sit down, lay down to bark/scratch to come in.

                                    I work to earn money for food they turn their nose up as. I scurry around cleaning up after them. I sneak out to the barn to give one horse a treat, and do they accept it quietly? NOPE, they have to alert the entire barn so I have to give everyone something. They make fences, doors, buildings all toys that we have to keep fixing, because they entertain themselves at our expen$e. We put a hose in a trough to try to give them water, and they have to drag it all over the field, so we can't get anything else done but stand there holding it.

                                    We won't even get into the bed/couch hogging.

                                    This is a form of human slavery. They definitely control us.

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                                    • Originally posted by pAin't_Misbehavin' View Post
                                      No, no. Being a social people, we need a super-plural to indicate everyone is welcome - "all y'all come over after church Sunday." Or, if you are in the Appalachians, "y'uns" and "y'unses" serve the same purpose.
                                      You could be right, and we just have a "regional variation."

                                      I first learned to "speak Southern" in South Texas and that's not really The South as most folks understand it. East Texas, however, is and that's the usage that I remember from Houston.

                                      Ah, Texas. They say the South ends in Dallas and the West begins in Ft. Worth. That leaves Grand Prarie right in the middle, which is about the best spot in the world for it.

                                      G.
                                      Mangalarga Marchador: Uma Raça, Uma Paixão

                                      Comment


                                      • Originally posted by pAin't_Misbehavin' View Post
                                        Is, too! We just have to convince people in other parts of the country that y'all is always plural.

                                        Some non-southerners think we use it to address one person - for example, asking the waiter, "Do y'all have sweet tea?" - but we mean y'all as in the restaurant owner and staff. We tend to think in collective terms more so than folks in other parts of the country, IME. But I digress.

                                        equinelaw - I know you didn't mean to imply animal ownership could ever be equated with human slavery, right?
                                        How the hell would I know? This thread is days old.

                                        I am sure I did not because I do not think that, but maybe it was in a post referring to the concept of how things can be "clearly right" one year and "clearly morally wrong" the next. Slavery is always a good example of that, because who supports slavery? Anything else and its crap shoot to assume there is a consensus on "moral right and wrong".


                                        I do know I just saw the most craptastic seizure of abused horses to date. The link is on Fugly. The newsclips and extended video are horrifying in the lack of even basic common sense.

                                        The horses are just fine and the reporter is saying they are starving and can barely stand. "Look" he says, "its eating grass! The poor thing is starved!" They live in a barn with no electricity and no heat!

                                        It was AC--not untrained volunteers. A few 300lb+ AC officers, so maybe their concept of starved is off, but The horses had what looked like MANURE on their feet!

                                        The system is not proving training to AC officers or volunteers.

                                        Somebody somehwere on this thread, G? said they now require a TRAINED large animal expert before a seizure. I gotta say a hell yeah to that idea.

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                                        • Originally posted by equinelaw View Post
                                          I do know I just saw the most craptastic seizure of abused horses to date. The link is on Fugly. The newsclips and extended video are horrifying in the lack of even basic common sense.

                                          The horses are just fine and the reporter is saying they are starving and can barely stand. "Look" he says, "its eating grass! The poor thing is starved!" They live in a barn with no electricity and no heat!

                                          It was AC--not untrained volunteers. A few 300lb+ AC officers, so maybe their concept of starved is off, but The horses had what looked like MANURE on their feet!

                                          OH, MY, that article and those videos should strike terror into every one that owns an animal. Being able to seize healthy, cared for horses by calling them neglected is CRAZY. I am so angry. The reporter is calling the horse weak, and staggering to get his balance. Nope, the horse is dragging his handler around a bit, then gets a bit "up" and jigs on the way to the van. The weight is fine, coats look healthy and even groomed. The horses are being kept in a closed shed, but horror of horrors, no heat? The article says, "According to trainers, horses can be in the cold, but not for days at a time." How stupid is this?!?! Ladies, I guess we all have to now heat our run-in sheds, or we are in danger of losing our horses. And boy if they are not obese, look out - arrested for neglect. Don't you know that if hay is in front of a horse, and they drag you to it, they are starved animals? The fact that this actually happened, and CBS ran it as a top story like it is valid is just terrifying.

                                          The story ends with the anchor saying, again,"there was no electircity in that barn!" <shakes head>

                                          A couple of those horses looked to be quite a bit on the porky side.

                                          Here are the starved horses. The 2nd photo is actually one giving a buck (not the "weak" one that was jigging).
                                          Attached Files
                                          Last edited by Fairview Horse Center; Feb. 8, 2009, 05:18 PM.

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