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Is this an all purpose saddle or a jumping saddle?

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  • Is this an all purpose saddle or a jumping saddle?

    I have been searching for either a dressage saddle or an all purpose saddle. I am leasing a little Arabian mare and I am looking into buying my first English saddle. My trainer told me that jumping saddles are too small in the seat so either look for all purpose or dressage. I have found one package that looks great and is almost brand new. It says all purpose in the description but honestly to me the seat looks like a jumping saddle even though the flaps are long. Even my trainer told me its a jumping saddle but I want to be sure. I have asked the seller but they haven't replied and I'm unsure if they really know.

    Here is the link:

    http://www.ebay.com/itm/Bates-Capril...:X:RTQ:US:1123

  • #2
    Its a close contact jumping saddle. The flaps look long because of the angle they have the saddle sitting.

    Your trainer's reason for you to look for an AP or dressage saddle makes no sense to me though. Saddles come in different seat sizes, and if anything, the flatter type seat of a jumping saddle is more forgiving than the deeper seat that is more common with dressage or AP.
    Freeing worms from cans everywhere!

    Comment


    • #3
      Bates does make an AP model, but the Caprilli is a close contact.
      Patience pays.

      Comment

      • Original Poster

        #4
        I'm not really sure for her reasoning. I don't necessarily plan on jumping but it would be nice in the future. To me it does seem the seats on a jumping saddle are a bit smaller so they probably have different measurements than a dressage saddle seat. She told me to look for a 16.5 or a 17 inch dressage or AP saddle. Her words: "You don't want a jumping saddle. They are very small and have a flat seat." I think I understand where she is coming from though. When I look at that saddle if I were to canter in it I would feel like I would slide forward too much because the seat is so short. She also teaches in Dressage, not jumping, so that may be why. But thank you so much for your answers. It's very helpful.

        Comment


        • #5
          I think you would be better off buying either a dressage or jumping saddle, but not an all purpose. I find all purpose saddles generally try to compromise in between, but don't do a good job of either.

          I also don't completely understand your trainers logic. Jumping saddles come in a wide range of seat sizes and depths. There are deep seats, semi deep seats, and flat seats. Not all jumping saddles have "short small seats".

          What english disapline are you interested in? Jumping? Straight dressage? Eventing? Hunter flat classes?

          ETA: dressage and jumping saddles are measured in the same way, so your seat size in a dressage saddle should be similar to a jumping saddle. Weight, height, and leg length may affect your decision.

          Comment


          • #6
            A dressage or AP saddle will have a deeper seat and for some people they will actually need a larger size in these saddles. A close contact saddle will have a flatter seat, but they tend to come in the exact same seat measurements as any other saddle. You just may not feel as secure in the flatter seat, but that should have nothing to do with the size of it unless you purchase one that is actually too small for you in measurement.

            However, if your trainer is a dressage trainer and that's what you will be focusing on (never intending to jump) I'd go with the dressage saddle.
            Flickr

            Comment

            • Original Poster

              #7
              I'm not entirely sure. Right now I'm just riding for fun. But I do remember as a little girl I used to take my friends pony over these tiny jumps bareback and it was an amazing feeling. I've seen in a few reviews that the all purpose have "no purpose". Right now I am being trained in Dressage. She is a Dressage instructor. I'm not sure if the mare I am going to lease can jump but I don't see much stopping her. I used to ride western so I think I'm a bit more used to a deeper seat. I feel more secure. But some jumping saddles I have seen have really deep seats, like this one:

              http://www.ebay.com/itm/17-inch-Engl...MAAOSwT5tWIE4p

              I wouldn't really want to buy something that I don't use in the future. I've seen some people say jumping saddles aren't as comfortable to ride in for a long period of time. I want something that might work with me for whatever discipline I might want to do later on in life and I don't want to buy a certain type of saddle now and it happen to not work for me in the future. Plus all of these amazing packages are all jumping saddles! I think her biggest concern is leg placement and the measurements. I may need a 16.5 or 17 in Dressage but would I need something bigger in Jumping? Wouldn't want to order something and then it turn out to be too small

              Comment


              • #8
                I would not buy a saddle without being able to ride in it first. I would also look for quality used saddle before buying a new saddle

                Comment

                • Original Poster

                  #9
                  Originally posted by pacific_jumper View Post
                  I would not buy a saddle without being able to ride in it first. I would also look for quality used saddle before buying a new saddle
                  That's what I'm doing. I'm looking for newish saddles [ones that aren't ancient but also a bit worn in] on eBay. I definitively won't be able to ride in it first which is the unfortunate part but I plan on only buying one that has a good return policy and layaway payments so I wouldn't be paying too much to begin with.

                  Comment


                  • #10
                    Originally posted by Sploosh79 View Post
                    That's what I'm doing. I'm looking for newish saddles [ones that aren't ancient but also a bit worn in] on eBay. I definitively won't be able to ride in it first which is the unfortunate part but I plan on only buying one that has a good return policy and layaway payments so I wouldn't be paying too much to begin with.
                    Are there any tack stores in your area with a consignment section? Have you tried local Facebook buy and sell pages? Do you have access to a qualified saddle fitter?

                    Comment

                    • Original Poster

                      #11
                      I live in an area where everyone rides Western. We have a Coastal but that's it. All Western tack there. I haven't tried local Facebook pages but it is a good idea. I don't have access to a saddle fitter but I can ask around the barn to see if anyone knows someone who is. My trainers answer to jumping saddles this time was they don't have much seat to work with because they're small and flat and the way you're positioned you're on your "crotch" most of the ride. I'm hoping to meet up with her and have her help me look.

                      Comment


                      • #12
                        If I remember correctly, in that brand, you can tell jumping saddles from AP by looking right under the pommel, if they are "full" there, or go down straight for about an inch or two and then the knee pad starts.

                        I am not sure you are not hearing well what your trainer is saying and it loses in the translation, or if your trainer has kind of strange ideas.

                        I expect there is an explanation in what doesn't quite make sense, we just can't understand clearly from what we are hearing.
                        We definitely can't say which kind of saddle you may need, not enough to go by.

                        Comment


                        • #13
                          The second set that you posted is not something that I'd recommend for anyone who wasn't on an extreme budget restriction. Those style saddles IMO just don't fit anyone, human or horse.

                          You say that you are leasing a little Arabian mare. So first of all, I'd want to fit a saddle to HER and then you second. I assume that she's short-backed and likely mutton withered. If so, then the old style Bates or Wintecs may work well for her as they had a flatter tree that should work well for her. BUT they will often have gusseted panels so the panels can be a bit longer and possibly a bit TOO long on a short-backed horse. Ideally, if you could post a picture or two of her untacked, standing fairly square shot from the side and maybe one looking down from above and one from the front, we can help steer you towards saddles that might work well for her. That said, they may not work at all for another horse so before you buy a horse, make sure that you're prepared to shop for each horse you ride.

                          As far as dressage vs all purpose vs close contact/jumping, if you want to learn dressage and/or are taking lessons from a dressage trainer, I'd probably look more for a D or A/P than a CC saddle. (FWIW, I can comfortably ride in a 17" jump saddle, but I need an 18" in dressage because the seat is deeper. The construction of the saddle changes how you sit and that affects seat size.) Some A/P saddles are no purpose. Some are much more balanced and versatile. If it's a super cheap (or no name) brand, I'd probably assume that it's less likely to be balanced and able to help you in your learning.
                          Flip a coin. It's not what side lands that matters, but what side you were hoping for when the coin was still in the air.

                          You call it boxed wine. I call it carboardeaux.

                          Comment


                          • #14
                            The second set is about worthless. Poorly made for both you and your horse. Pass.

                            If you are new to riding and don't have your balance your trainer might be right that a dressage saddle will offer more security and comfort. With a deeper seat and longer stirrups you might be more capable of keeping your balance, and it will be more comfortable on trail rides.

                            If you plan on doing any jumping in the future and can only afford one saddle, a jumping saddle is the way to go. If it fits you well you will quickly adjust to less square footage.

                            The first saddle is very nice quality, but is worthless to you if it doesn't fit your horse.

                            In addition, I would stay away from a package deal, a 50 inch girth will wrap twice around you arabian with room to spare!
                            http://weanieeventer.blogspot.com/

                            Comment


                            • #15
                              Originally posted by Sploosh79 View Post
                              I'm not entirely sure. Right now I'm just riding for fun. But I do remember as a little girl I used to take my friends pony over these tiny jumps bareback and it was an amazing feeling. I've seen in a few reviews that the all purpose have "no purpose". Right now I am being trained in Dressage. She is a Dressage instructor. I'm not sure if the mare I am going to lease can jump but I don't see much stopping her. I used to ride western so I think I'm a bit more used to a deeper seat. I feel more secure. But some jumping saddles I have seen have really deep seats, like this one:

                              http://www.ebay.com/itm/17-inch-Engl...MAAOSwT5tWIE4p

                              I wouldn't really want to buy something that I don't use in the future. I've seen some people say jumping saddles aren't as comfortable to ride in for a long period of time. I want something that might work with me for whatever discipline I might want to do later on in life and I don't want to buy a certain type of saddle now and it happen to not work for me in the future. Plus all of these amazing packages are all jumping saddles! I think her biggest concern is leg placement and the measurements. I may need a 16.5 or 17 in Dressage but would I need something bigger in Jumping? Wouldn't want to order something and then it turn out to be too small
                              That's an all purpose saddle in the eBay link. It also appears to be a cheap no brand name saddle. While occasionally you'll find a nice one of these, many of them are cheaply and poorly constructed and don't fit a horse's back well. These are often sold in the beginner packages, which are really not so amazing. I'd budget $300-800 and look for a used but decent condition saddle of a known brand, then buy your girth, leathers, irons, etc in sizes that you know will fit.

                              In general, a close contact saddle will have a squared off cantle (in addition to the flatter seat and more forward flap) while an all purpose saddle will have a rounded cantle (and often a deeper seat and less forward flap). There are some exceptions but this is a good guide to start off.
                              Flickr

                              Comment


                              • #16
                                That photo of the bates caprilli saddle is extremely deceiving; it does not sit like that on a horse (unless that is one odd shaped horse). Mine sat nice and even and was quite deep. You really need to try before buying. I found the bates caprilli to be a bit long (the panels under the cantle go quite far back) and might not be a great fit for a short-back arab .

                                Comment


                                • #17
                                  Originally posted by Sploosh79 View Post
                                  I live in an area where everyone rides Western. We have a Coastal but that's it. All Western tack there. I haven't tried local Facebook pages but it is a good idea. I don't have access to a saddle fitter but I can ask around the barn to see if anyone knows someone who is. My trainers answer to jumping saddles this time was they don't have much seat to work with because they're small and flat and the way you're positioned you're on your "crotch" most of the ride. I'm hoping to meet up with her and have her help me look.
                                  If you are in the Willamette Valley, I'll help you.

                                  You sound as though you are going to buy the wrong saddle your first time out. And I did that, too, at 14. I'm older and wiser now. No point in having everyone screw up the first time lol.

                                  On that first saddle: I owned a Bates Caprilli (I replaced the panels with wool and made it fit a particular horse), but I didn't like the balance in that saddle.

                                  Also, those packages you see on Ebay are cheap and bad.... bad design, bad materials and the rest.

                                  You really need to go sit in some saddles at a tack store and ride in a few. If you have someone helping you, the process can go even faster because he/she can pick out good candidate saddles. And you guys can learn from each on that you try about what shape in the seat and flaps and the rest that you (and the horse) like or don't like.
                                  The armchair saddler
                                  Politically Pro-Cat

                                  Comment


                                  • #18
                                    Something like THIS would probably be a good fit, style-wise. There's enough flap to be able to jump low fences (when you don't need a really short stirrup) and it should still put you in a decent position for flat/dressage work.

                                    As others said above, saddle fitting is really personal though, SO much depends on the shape of the horse + your own conformation. I know when I'm with a friend at Rolex trying out saddles at the vendors just for fun, the ones that make her happy are all wrong for me, and we aren't outwardly that different in size.

                                    So be prepared to do a lot of trial and error (ie: shipping) or, if you can, find a good tack shop with a wide selection and make a trip out of it. Spend a day and go sit in 45 saddles - you'll get a feel for what works for you. Or one other alternative, does your trainer know of a saddler/saddle fitter who might come with a selection so you can try them on the horse and you? If you can find someone who doesn't re for just one company, so much the better.

                                    Comment


                                    • #19
                                      Originally posted by saje View Post
                                      Something like THIS would probably be a good fit, style-wise. There's enough flap to be able to jump low fences (when you don't need a really short stirrup) and it should still put you in a decent position for flat/dressage work.

                                      As others said above, saddle fitting is really personal though, SO much depends on the shape of the horse + your own conformation. I know when I'm with a friend at Rolex trying out saddles at the vendors just for fun, the ones that make her happy are all wrong for me, and we aren't outwardly that different in size.

                                      So be prepared to do a lot of trial and error (ie: shipping) or, if you can, find a good tack shop with a wide selection and make a trip out of it. Spend a day and go sit in 45 saddles - you'll get a feel for what works for you. Or one other alternative, does your trainer know of a saddler/saddle fitter who might come with a selection so you can try them on the horse and you? If you can find someone who doesn't re for just one company, so much the better.
                                      The saddle in that link will also fit most horses, even barrel bodied arabians, unless it needs a very wide tree, if it is especially mutton withered.

                                      Some saddleries handling used saddles, if you send them some pictures, they can advise what they have that may fit, in your price range.
                                      I know Pelham Saddlery did that for me, second best to having the saddle in front of you to try it out.
                                      You have seven days to try the saddle and return it if it doesn't fit after all.

                                      Comment


                                      • #20
                                        You can just look at the orig manufacturer's website. Bates's own description of the Caprilli makes it clear what the saddle's key focus is (in this case, jumping).

                                        I'm not as down as others here on the A/P. It's absolutely fine for a generalist who is not yet riding at a level where a specialized saddle is important. If you are just starting out in English, you should definitely learn basic dressage, and IMO the deeper seat of an A/P will be much more helpful vs a close contact jumping saddle. And if you want to pop over small jumps, the seat will not be so deep as to interfere with your position over the fence.

                                        Comment

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