• Welcome to the Chronicle Forums.
    Please complete your profile. The forums and the rest of www.chronofhorse.com has single sign-in, so your log in information for one will automatically work for the other. Disclaimer: The opinions expressed here are the views of the individual and do not necessarily reflect the views and opinions of The Chronicle of the Horse.

Announcement

Collapse

Forum rules and no-advertising policy

As a participant on this forum, it is your responsibility to know and follow our rules. Please read this message in its entirety.

Board Rules

1. You’re responsible for what you say.
As outlined in Section 230 of the Communications Decency Act, The Chronicle of the Horse and its affiliates, as well Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd., the developers of vBulletin, are not legally responsible for statements made in the forums.

This is a public forum viewed by a wide spectrum of people, so please be mindful of what you say and who might be reading it—details of personal disputes are likely better handled privately. While posters are legally responsible for their statements, the moderators may in their discretion remove or edit posts that violate these rules. Users have the ability to modify or delete their own messages after posting, but administrators generally will not delete posts, threads or accounts upon request.

Outright inflammatory, vulgar, harassing, malicious or otherwise inappropriate statements and criminal charges unsubstantiated by a reputable news source or legal documentation will not be tolerated and will be dealt with at the discretion of the moderators.

Credible threats of suicide will be reported to the police along with identifying user information at our disposal, in addition to referring the user to suicide helpline resources such as 1-800-SUICIDE or 1-800-273-TALK.

2. Conversations in horse-related forums should be horse-related.
The forums are a wonderful source of information and support for members of the horse community. While it’s understandably tempting to share information or search for input on other topics upon which members might have a similar level of knowledge, members must maintain the focus on horses.

3. Keep conversations productive, on topic and civil.
Discussion and disagreement are inevitable and encouraged; personal insults, diatribes and sniping comments are unproductive and unacceptable. Whether a subject is light-hearted or serious, keep posts focused on the current topic and of general interest to other participants of that thread. Utilize the private message feature or personal email where appropriate to address side topics or personal issues not related to the topic at large.

4. No advertising in the discussion forums.
Posts in the discussion forums directly or indirectly advertising horses, jobs, items or services for sale or wanted will be removed at the discretion of the moderators. Use of the private messaging feature or email addresses obtained through users’ profiles for unsolicited advertising is not permitted.

Company representatives may participate in discussions and answer questions about their products or services, or suggest their products on recent threads if they fulfill the criteria of a query. False "testimonials" provided by company affiliates posing as general consumers are not appropriate, and self-promotion of sales, ad campaigns, etc. through the discussion forums is not allowed.

Paid advertising is available on our classifieds site and through the purchase of banner ads. The tightly monitored Giveaways forum permits free listings of genuinely free horses and items available or wanted (on a limited basis). Items offered for trade are not allowed.

Advertising Policy Specifics
When in doubt of whether something you want to post constitutes advertising, please contact a moderator privately in advance for further clarification. Refer to the following points for general guidelines:

Horses – Only general discussion about the buying, leasing, selling and pricing of horses is permitted. If the post contains, or links to, the type of specific information typically found in a sales or wanted ad, and it’s related to a horse for sale, regardless of who’s selling it, it doesn’t belong in the discussion forums.

Stallions – Board members may ask for suggestions on breeding stallion recommendations. Stallion owners may reply to such queries by suggesting their own stallions, only if their horse fits the specific criteria of the original poster. Excessive promotion of a stallion by its owner or related parties is not permitted and will be addressed at the discretion of the moderators.

Services – Members may use the forums to ask for general recommendations of trainers, barns, shippers, farriers, etc., and other members may answer those requests by suggesting themselves or their company, if their services fulfill the specific criteria of the original post. Members may not solicit other members for business if it is not in response to a direct, genuine query.

Products – While members may ask for general opinions and suggestions on equipment, trailers, trucks, etc., they may not list the specific attributes for which they are in the market, as such posts serve as wanted ads.

Event Announcements – Members may post one notification of an upcoming event that may be of interest to fellow members, if the original poster does not benefit financially from the event. Such threads may not be “bumped” excessively. Premium members may post their own notices in the Event Announcements forum.

Charities/Rescues – Announcements for charitable or fundraising events can only be made for 501(c)(3) tax-exempt organizations. Special exceptions may be made, at the moderators’ discretion and direction, for board-related events or fundraising activities in extraordinary circumstances.

Occasional posts regarding horses available for adoption through IRS-registered horse rescue or placement programs are permitted in the appropriate forums, but these threads may be limited at the discretion of the moderators. Individuals may not advertise or make announcements for horses in need of rescue, placement or adoption unless the horse is available through a recognized rescue or placement agency or government-run entity or the thread fits the criteria for and is located in the Giveaways forum.

5. Do not post copyrighted photographs unless you have purchased that photo and have permission to do so.

6. Respect other members.
As members are often passionate about their beliefs and intentions can easily be misinterpreted in this type of environment, try to explore or resolve the inevitable disagreements that arise in the course of threads calmly and rationally.

If you see a post that you feel violates the rules of the board, please click the “alert” button (exclamation point inside of a triangle) in the bottom left corner of the post, which will alert ONLY the moderators to the post in question. They will then take whatever action, or no action, as deemed appropriate for the situation at their discretion. Do not air grievances regarding other posters or the moderators in the discussion forums.

Please be advised that adding another user to your “Ignore” list via your User Control Panel can be a useful tactic, which blocks posts and private messages by members whose commentary you’d rather avoid reading.

7. We have the right to reproduce statements made in the forums.
The Chronicle of the Horse may copy, quote, link to or otherwise reproduce posts, or portions of posts, in print or online for advertising or editorial purposes, if attributed to their original authors, and by posting in this forum, you hereby grant to The Chronicle of the Horse a perpetual, non-exclusive license under copyright and other rights, to do so.

8. We reserve the right to enforce and amend the rules.
The moderators may delete, edit, move or close any post or thread at any time, or refrain from doing any of the foregoing, in their discretion, and may suspend or revoke a user’s membership privileges at any time to maintain adherence to the rules and the general spirit of the forum. These rules may be amended at any time to address the current needs of the board.

Please see our full Terms of Service and Privacy Policy for more information.

Thanks for being a part of the COTH forums!

(Revised 2/8/18)
See more
See less

Switch Farrier or Second Chance?

Collapse
X
  • Filter
  • Time
  • Show
Clear All
new posts

  • Switch Farrier or Second Chance?

    My horse has been ever-so-slightly off the past few weeks so I had the vet out. Diagnosis was farrier not trimming toe back enough, not trimming hoof wall enough. Farrier is new guy on the block. In the past I have asked casually for a shorter toe, kind of happened, he wasn't aggressive about it. Didn't think much of it until now. Do I ask him back out with exact vet instructions in hand or do I switch farriers? I don't show and I will be out of town for about a month so she does not need to be super riding sound in the case farrier screws up again.

    I guess the bigger picture for me is the following question: Do I give him the professional courtesy of a second chance with firm, crystal-clear instructions OR do I just spare the hassle and spare the horse and switch farriers?

  • #2
    It sounds as though the farrier needs an education. There is so much more to farrier work than being able to use nippers, a hoof knife and rasp. While we all want to help people to get ahead, there are some areas where we we need not tread, I've gone on record before to say that getting a farrier to take back toes, and keep the break over correct, can be exceedingly difficult. And I have known some that couldn't balance a scale much less a foot

    I would look for another farrier.
    Some riders change their horse, they change their saddle, they change their teacher; they never change themselves.

    Remember the horse does all the work, we just sit there and look pretty.

    Comment

    • Original Poster

      #3
      Yea I feel the same way about asking them to take back toe and help grow heel. Always asking, never happens. He is CFA but still new to the sport. I will look around for new farrier. Unfortunately the horse community is small around here so limited number of farriers to call.

      Comment


      • #4
        I would give him a chance to learn before firing him, and I would see if he is willing/able to talk to the vet directly regarding the changes that are needed. If he is not willing to work with the vets advice, that is different.

        I think farriers get a lot of advice from clients who "read something on the internet" to the point they may push back from this advice even if it has merit.

        There also may be something the farrier sees regarding the hoof that the vet does not.
        Freeing worms from cans everywhere!

        Comment

        • Original Poster

          #5
          Usually I would agree but this guy is new to the ball game, not been into horses as long as other horsepeople around here. My vet is quite qualified, been around the block, sports vet. I trust her opinion and value it highly. Farrier is a nice guy, just new, but I like my horse more. Alas the internal debate.

          Comment


          • #6
            I think you need to figure out if your farrier is a life-long learner. Will he follow the vet's advice and learn from her? Continue to study and incorporate what he learns into his practice? If so, I'd be open to keeping him. If not, move on.

            Comment


            • #7
              But do you actually have specific instructions and are you in a position to really follow up this time to make sure he's doing it? If your vet is just saying "not enough", that's not specific and may not get you the result you want.
              You've already tried the non-specific route, where you vaguely said "toe shorter", he vaguely responded with a few extra strokes of the rasp, neither of you had a clear plan or feedback from the other side on expectations and results.

              Can you arrange your vet come out and farrier to meet with you so all three are looking at the hoof together, and the vet could even draw the angles that she's hoping to see? (And take pictures, so that from trim to trim you can ensure he's still on track)

              Comment


              • #8
                Originally posted by CHT View Post
                I would give him a chance to learn before firing him, and I would see if he is willing/able to talk to the vet directly regarding the changes that are needed. If he is not willing to work with the vets advice, that is different.

                I think farriers get a lot of advice from clients who "read something on the internet" to the point they may push back from this advice even if it has merit.

                There also may be something the farrier sees regarding the hoof that the vet does not.
                Yes, if farrier is willing to work with the vet, I'd give him another chance. If he says "No, it's not my fault horse is lame" time to move on.

                Comment


                • #9
                  I am currently in the exact same situation.

                  My internal debate comes down to this: will I be able to trust this one to follow through consistently or will I have to be checking up on him each and every time? When they mess up on such a basic requirement - balancing a hoof is not 'specialised' nor is it 'new' or 'fancy' - how much do they have to learn and (more importantly) will they adjust or revert to habit? Experience counts for a lot, and this is how they get it...but experience only helps IF you learn from it and go on. What if something else comes up that is beyond his current level of experience? Do I have to know more than he does in order to 'catch' it and straighten it out before he does something even more regrettable (and perhaps damaging) than making my horse 'ouchy'?

                  I hate farrier-shopping.
                  No matter where you go, there you are

                  Comment

                  • Original Poster

                    #10
                    Originally posted by Beck View Post
                    I am currently in the exact same situation.

                    My internal debate comes down to this: will I be able to trust this one to follow through consistently or will I have to be checking up on him each and every time? When they mess up on such a basic requirement - balancing a hoof is not 'specialised' nor is it 'new' or 'fancy' - how much do they have to learn and (more importantly) will they adjust or revert to habit? Experience counts for a lot, and this is how they get it...but experience only helps IF you learn from it and go on. What if something else comes up that is beyond his current level of experience? Do I have to know more than he does in order to 'catch' it and straighten it out before he does something even more regrettable (and perhaps damaging) than making my horse 'ouchy'?

                    I hate farrier-shopping.
                    THIS. Exactly. If it were a once screw up, sure I will keep him no problem. But balancing a hoof is basic and I have been asking in the past with limited results. Now will I have to keep tabs on him? I want a farrier I can trust.

                    Comment


                    • #11
                      i think you've just answered your question.

                      Comment

                      • Original Poster

                        #12
                        Yes I just did, thanks guys

                        Comment


                        • #13
                          "take the toe back" is like "bring me a rock".

                          If your vet has a specific way she wants the horse trimmed, she needs to meet with the farrier and discuss it. Having you transmit instructions turns into a game of telephone with a poor likelihood of a good outcome.

                          Comment


                          • #14
                            I'm beginning to wonder why exactly farriers attend farrier school. It sure doesn't seem to be "to learn to trim horses' hooves."
                            It's a small world -- unless you gotta walk home.

                            Comment


                            • #15
                              Originally posted by CHT View Post
                              I would give him a chance to learn before firing him, and I would see if he is willing/able to talk to the vet directly regarding the changes that are needed. If he is not willing to work with the vets advice, that is different.
                              I would tell him exactly what the vet says needs to happen. There have been several times I have had farriers that wanted to leave too much toe. If after several requests I was still having that issue I moved on.

                              When the number of farriers are limited in your area, sometimes we have to be a bit more vocal in how we want something done. If you can train him right, he may be worth the effort in the long run.

                              Comment


                              • #16
                                Beck-Sorry but I have to disagree about balancing. No, it is not new, it is basic. But there are some people, no matter how hard they try who can not balance a hoof.
                                Some riders change their horse, they change their saddle, they change their teacher; they never change themselves.

                                Remember the horse does all the work, we just sit there and look pretty.

                                Comment


                                • #17
                                  Originally posted by merrygoround View Post
                                  Beck-Sorry but I have to disagree about balancing. No, it is not new, it is basic. But there are some people, no matter how hard they try who can not balance a hoof.
                                  Even after taking - and passing - the Oklahoma farrier course?

                                  I have no idea what you are disagreeing about, but imo if they cannot balance a hoof, they should pursue another field of employment. Call me picky.
                                  No matter where you go, there you are

                                  Comment


                                  • #18
                                    Originally posted by tikkamasala View Post
                                    My horse has been ever-so-slightly off the past few weeks so I had the vet out. Diagnosis was farrier not trimming toe back enough, not trimming hoof wall enough. Farrier is new guy on the block. In the past I have asked casually for a shorter toe, kind of happened, he wasn't aggressive about it. Didn't think much of it until now. Do I ask him back out with exact vet instructions in hand or do I switch farriers? I don't show and I will be out of town for about a month so she does not need to be super riding sound in the case farrier screws up again.

                                    I guess the bigger picture for me is the following question: Do I give him the professional courtesy of a second chance with firm, crystal-clear instructions OR do I just spare the hassle and spare the horse and switch farriers?
                                    You should not have to instruct a professional farrier on how to trim the horse. I discuss what kind and type of work the horse is in, any soundness or health issues, and any problems or quirks.
                                    "When a true genius appears in the world, you may know him by this sign, that the dunces are all in a confederatcy against him."

                                    Comment


                                    • #19
                                      I "might" give him a 2nd shot, if I liked how he handled the horse, and seems knowledgeable. Sometimes farriers will not be as aggressive in their trimming the first time they work with a new horse. I'm ok with that as opposed to one that is overzealous about taking off too much hoof. But I think I'd give more leeway to an experienced farrier that is doing that horse for the first time vs one that doesn't have any horse experience until they attended farrier school. And I most likely wouldn't want to use one fresh out of farrier school, that wasn't mentoring with a good, experienced farrier.

                                      Comment

                                      Working...
                                      X