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Bush wins as Kerry concedes

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  • <BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by Fessy's Mom:
    And I clarified that I meant the people who flew the planes into to the WTC and Pentagon. <HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

    True, but maybe you should edit your post somewhat.....as most people would report it first then read the rest of the thread.

    Comment


    • <BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by Simkie:
      <BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by ESG:
      Simkie, let's take another tack - how would Kerry have united it? <HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

      No one has said he would.

      But it's been stated a couple times that Bush will, and I'd like to know how that's going to happen. <HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

      Wait, now; I'm confused again. You're sooo anti-Bush but you don't know how Kerry would have done any better? Could you elaborate on that, please?
      In loving memory of Laura Jahnke.
      A life lived by example, done too soon.
      www.caringbridge.org/page/laurajahnke/

      Comment


      • <BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by ESG:
        <BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by poltroon:
        [Two American citizens were arrested and held for more than a year without being charged with a crime or given access to a lawyer, solely on the say-so of the President. One was deported and stripped of his citizenship, still not charged with any crime. Presumably he is free to go off and do whatever crminal acts he was committing somewhere else. One is still being held.

        <span class="ev_code_PURPLE">Who, please? And when did this happen?</span>

        This is un-American and unconstitutional. You are probably thinking, "I'm not a terrorist, it doesn't affect me." But we don't know these people were terrorists. If you respect that Bush wouldn't have made a mistake on this point, how do you feel about Clinton having this power? Or Nixon? <span class="ev_code_PURPLE">Call me funny, but I think it's a bit pointless to speculate on what Nixon or Clinton would have done. They're not sitting in the White House any more. </span>

        If our republic can survive putting Timothy McVeigh on trial, why can't it survive the trial of Jose Padilla? <HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

        <span class="ev_code_PURPLE">Details, please? And did you think Timothy McVeigh didn't deserve to be tried?</span> <HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

        My point is exactly that McVeigh, an American born terrorist, was captured and tried and convicted, and rightly so.

        Jose Padilla has been held since 2002 without access to an attorney or being charged with a crime. His case went to the Supreme Court this summer but went back down to lower courts on a technicality (the wrong defendant was named on that action). You can google his name, or go to this CNN article. He is accused of plotting to release a 'dirty bomb' in the US. But apparently there's not enough evidence for a trial. I guess.

        Yasser Hamdi was an American citizen who was held incommunicado for 3 years without any charges being filed. He was arrested in Afghanistan as a foot soldier for the Taliban (which he had been long before America had any interests in Afghanistan). Washington Post article
        <BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>The government insisted that the courts authorize Mr. Hamdi's detention purely on the basis of a two-page affidavit from a mid-level Defense Department bureaucrat who claimed no personal knowledge of the case. An American citizen could be plucked out of all of the protections of the civilian justice system with no significant judicial review and no opportunity to rebut the facts behind the decision, the administration argued -- and it pushed this view all the way to the Supreme Court, where it received the rebuke it deserved. <HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

        So, this guy, who was such a threat that he could not even speak to a lawyer for 3 years, was put on a plane for Saudi Arabia (where his parents live), not charged with any crime. He was forced to renounce his American citizenship as part of a deal to end his detention.

        Whoever he was, whatever he did, either it was wrong to hold him or it was wrong to release him.
        If you are allergic to a thing, it is best not to put that thing in your mouth, particularly if the thing is cats. - Lemony Snicket

        Comment


        • I want to clarify. I'm not bashing muslims at all. All I said was there is a need, to some extent, to profile. Not as an end-all be-all but as a part of the process. And there is a line that needs to be drawn and I don’t know what to say about that, because that's a tough solution to find. And ANY religion has creepy radicals. Christians especially, actually, I guess. If you’re holed up in a compound with weapons, you’re no different and should be treated no differently just because you’re a Christian ... or Jewish ... or aethiest ... etc ... and not a Muslim. After 9/11 the country - no, world - changed. It will never - NEVER - be the same. To me, if that means giving up some of my civil liberties, that’s fine. I have nothing to hide.

          Comment


          • <BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by pds:
            <BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR> Four more years to take away our civil liberties. <HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

            And exactly what civil liberties did Bush take away??? <HR></BLOCKQUOTE>



            Just look at Section 215 and 216 of the USA PATRIOT Act that allows the feds to snoop into your library and bookstore records without so much as showing probable cause. Part of Section 216 has already been overturned by a federal appeals court. Four more years of this---yippee

            Comment


            • <BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by ESG:
              <BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by ailis36:
              ESG, I have 2 words for you...Cat Stevens <HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

              Right back atcha. I'd have booted his Islamic a$$ back out of the country, too. <HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

              Wow. ESG, may I ask how your ancestors got to this country? Are they Native Americans or did they spontaneously spring from the soil?

              The United States of America was founded and grew on the backs of individuals who came here to be free of religious persecution, poverty and political oppression. I was under the impression that anyone could come and go from this country without fear of religious persecution...but I imagine that in your world, that would include anyone not of your belief...especially if they believe in Islam.

              Comment


              • <BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by Boston Chicken:
                <BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by ESG:
                "The Koran teaches that exterminating infidels is holy and will be rewarded. And we're not supposed to be threatened by that? Does the word "jihad" mean anything to you? Or are you pulling for a repeat of 9/11? <HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

                ESG - Respectfully, "Jihad" means struggle. Secondly, the Koran DOES NOT teach that killing infidels. That's nonsense. It's interpretation, similar to how people interpret teachings in the bible. 99% of Muslim people are not FANATICS like the 9/11 murderers. <HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

                Well, how about "mujahadeen" (and I know I crucified the spelling), which I'm told translates to "holy warrior"? And does not bin Laden call for all good little holy warriors to kill all infidels and return the world to a state of Islamic grace? Never mind that bin Laden may not represent the majority of Muslims; he does represent the money that backs the ones that commit holy acts like 9/11. And thank you, but I have read enough of the Koran (English translation, of course) to know that they don't like us, they'll never like us and their holy duty is to try to exterminate us. Period.
                In loving memory of Laura Jahnke.
                A life lived by example, done too soon.
                www.caringbridge.org/page/laurajahnke/

                Comment


                • <BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by jetjocky:
                  Just look at Section 215 and 216 of the USAP PATRIOT Act that allows the feds to snoop into your library and bookstore records without so much as showing probable cause. Part of Section 216 has already been overturned by a federal appeals court. Four more years of this---yippee <HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

                  I have to say, this doesn't bother me.
                  model citizen, zero discipline

                  Comment


                  • Having to submit to a search in the airport is not a loss of civil liberties.

                    I fly all the time. Often on one way tickets. I get the full search every time because one way tickets get "flagged". Have I been inconvienced? Maybe a little. But I consider the alternative (plane go boom, boom) and I don't mind. I feel safer. None of my civil liberties has been taken away in this process.

                    Comment


                    • <BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by Porcelain Pony:
                      <BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by mpeylin:
                      Sometimes I wish someone in the Muslim community would say "go ahead, profile us, we realize it needs to be done." and then they STILL kept the random selection. <HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

                      WOW!!! I'm sure the Jews in Germany sure are glad THEY took that stand! I really cannot believe I am reading this! Let's start putting armbands on them why don't we?? I mean, some may look "white"!! <HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

                      Right on Porcelain Pony. I guess I need to start wearing my Che Guevara arm band so people know I'm hispanic. With pale skin, light brown hair and two blonde/blue-eyed children, they might mistakenly believe that I'm "acceptable" in their society!

                      Comment


                      • <BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by Cindeye:

                        Wow. ESG, may I ask how your ancestors got to this country? Are they Native Americans or did they spontaneously spring from the soil?

                        <span class="ev_code_PURPLE">Nope. Mine came from Italy, post WWII. But to my knowledge, Italy has never launched a terrorist attack on the US. </span>

                        The United States of America was founded and grew on the backs of individuals who came here to be free of religious persecution, poverty and political oppression. I was under the impression that anyone could come and go from this country without fear of religious persecution...but I imagine that in your world, that would include anyone not of your belief...especially if they believe in Islam. <HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

                        <span class="ev_code_PURPLE">No, I still believe what's written on the Statue of Liberty. But I missed the part where it says we should welcome with open arms sympathizers of proven enemies and not protect ourselves from imminent threat. </span>
                        In loving memory of Laura Jahnke.
                        A life lived by example, done too soon.
                        www.caringbridge.org/page/laurajahnke/

                        Comment


                        • <BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by eventamy:
                          Fessy's Mom,
                          That was a disgusting comment. I've reported to the administrators about your post. Shame on you! <HR></BLOCKQUOTE>
                          Perhaps you should report her to Ashcroft too...
                          Ristra Ranch Equestrian Jewelry

                          Comment


                          • <BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by ESG:
                            <BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by Cindeye:

                            Wow. ESG, may I ask how your ancestors got to this country? Are they Native Americans or did they spontaneously spring from the soil?

                            <span class="ev_code_PURPLE">Nope. Mine came from Italy, post WWII. But to my knowledge, Italy has never launched a terrorist attack on the US. </span>

                            The United States of America was founded and grew on the backs of individuals who came here to be free of religious persecution, poverty and political oppression. I was under the impression that anyone could come and go from this country without fear of religious persecution...but I imagine that in your world, that would include anyone not of your belief...especially if they believe in Islam. <HR></BLOCKQUOTE> <HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

                            So because some individuals, or an isolated group of a country did a terrible act the rest of the citizens of that country have to be punished as well?

                            Comment


                            • <BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>Wait, now; I'm confused again. You're sooo anti-Bush but you don't know how Kerry would have done any better? Could you elaborate on that, please? <HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

                              Why did you vote Bush, ESG?

                              I voted Kerry because I'm pro-choice. Because I'm pro same sex marriage. Because the economy is in the toilet, and something HAS to change. Because boys (and girls) are dying in Iraq, and that needs to change. Because I'm all for stem cell research.

                              But mostly--because Bush has had four years in office. This country is NOT in a better place than it was four years ago. Why do you think the next four years will be ANY different?

                              Hell, it could have been Mickey Mouse running against Bush, and I would have voted for him.

                              I'm embarrassed to be an american. I'm embarrassed to live in a state that went Bush. This isn't my country.

                              Back to my question: how is Bush going to unite this country?

                              Comment


                              • ESG said "And thank you, but I have read enough of the Koran (English translation, of course) to know that they don't like us, they'll never like us and their holy duty is to try to exterminate us. Period."

                                You are scarey! Read the Koran my a$$.

                                Comment


                                • Nope. Just the ones that come into the US speaking openly of supporting them.
                                  In loving memory of Laura Jahnke.
                                  A life lived by example, done too soon.
                                  www.caringbridge.org/page/laurajahnke/

                                  Comment


                                  • Um, poltroon, lots of evidence--ALL SUPPRESSED--that indicated McVeigh was not the bad guy all of you fearful people are SO in need of vilifying the moment life reminds us that we are not guaranteed safety or security.

                                    Comment


                                    • <BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by ailis36:
                                      ESG said "And thank you, but I have read enough of the Koran (English translation, of course) to know that they don't like us, they'll never like us and their holy duty is to try to exterminate us. Period."

                                      You are scarey! Read the Koran my a$$. <HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

                                      Oh, please. How would you possibly know what I've read and haven't? If that's the best argument you can come up with, pipe down.
                                      In loving memory of Laura Jahnke.
                                      A life lived by example, done too soon.
                                      www.caringbridge.org/page/laurajahnke/

                                      Comment


                                      • <BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR> So because some individuals, or an isolated group of a country did a terrible act the rest of the citizens of that country have to be punished as well?
                                        <HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

                                        Yes - "we stick a boot up your ass, it's the American Way"
                                        The witchy witch witch of south central NC.

                                        Comment


                                        • Sorry ESG, that kind of BIGOTRY leaves me at a loss for words.

                                          Comment

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