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Bush wins as Kerry concedes

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  • <BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by pds:
    <BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR> Four more years to take away our civil liberties. <HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

    And exactly what civil liberties did Bush take away??? <HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

    Two American citizens were arrested and held for more than a year without being charged with a crime or given access to a lawyer, solely on the say-so of the President. One was deported and stripped of his citizenship, still not charged with any crime. Presumably he is free to go off and do whatever crminal acts he was committing somewhere else. One is still being held.

    This is un-American and unconstitutional. You are probably thinking, "I'm not a terrorist, it doesn't affect me." But we don't know these people were terrorists. If you respect that Bush wouldn't have made a mistake on this point, how do you feel about Clinton having this power? Or Nixon?

    If our republic can survive putting Timothy McVeigh on trial, why can't it survive the trial of Jose Padilla?
    If you are allergic to a thing, it is best not to put that thing in your mouth, particularly if the thing is cats. - Lemony Snicket

    Comment


    • you know what/ we flew home from key west this weekend, both of us with airline staff luggage (he's a pilot, I was using one of his bags) but we'd actually bought tickets.

      And we got "randomly selected."

      And it was a huge hassle, especially when they repacked my bag and broke my Maui Jim sunglasses.

      And I'd do it every time I fly. I think they should profile, but they don't. And it "infringed" upon me, I missed my chance to eat some dinner before our flight and I had to stand barefoot in the airport (ewww).

      And I don't care. Infringe all you want if it'll make the world a better place. Within reason, of course, and I think that they stay within that reason. If I was sending $5,000 western union to someone with a strange name, please question me about it. I have nothing to hide and I welcome the hassle if it keeps us and our children and our grandchildren safe.

      Sometimes I wish someone in the Muslim community would say "go ahead, profile us, we realize it needs to be done." and then they STILL kept the random selection.

      Comment


      • I like that song - you know, "We'll put a boot up your ass, it's the American way".

        Maybe it's time to change our anthem to better reflect our policies and beliefs.
        The witchy witch witch of south central NC.

        Comment


        • Actually, there is some talk about amending the constitution so that naturalized citizens could run for president...

          Comment


          • <BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by poltroon:
            [Two American citizens were arrested and held for more than a year without being charged with a crime or given access to a lawyer, solely on the say-so of the President. One was deported and stripped of his citizenship, still not charged with any crime. Presumably he is free to go off and do whatever crminal acts he was committing somewhere else. One is still being held.

            <span class="ev_code_PURPLE">Who, please? And when did this happen?</span>

            This is un-American and unconstitutional. You are probably thinking, "I'm not a terrorist, it doesn't affect me." But we don't know these people were terrorists. If you respect that Bush wouldn't have made a mistake on this point, how do you feel about Clinton having this power? Or Nixon? <span class="ev_code_PURPLE">Call me funny, but I think it's a bit pointless to speculate on what Nixon or Clinton would have done. They're not sitting in the White House any more. </span>

            If our republic can survive putting Timothy McVeigh on trial, why can't it survive the trial of Jose Padilla? <HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

            <span class="ev_code_PURPLE">Details, please? And did you think Timothy McVeigh didn't deserve to be tried?</span>
            In loving memory of Laura Jahnke.
            A life lived by example, done too soon.
            www.caringbridge.org/page/laurajahnke/

            Comment


            • <BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by ESG:
              Simkie and Vandy, even if the USA _is_ descending down the proverbial slippery slope, what exactly are you _personally _ going to do about it? Especially considering the fact that your chances of the majority of the populace doing anything about it have just been put on hold for the next four years............. <HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

              Leaving. This isn't my country, ESG, and I have no desire to be a part of it.

              It might take some time (years) for me to get the hell out, but I'll do it.

              Have you started reading the Patriot Act, ESG?

              Comment


              • "As I mentioned to Vandy, there is still a small thing called "probable cause". No one is going to jump into your living room backed up by a SWAT team if you're not doing something suspicious or associating with someone who is. Call me naive if you want, but honest citizens aren't just picked at random to be descended upon and persecuted. Where there's smoke, there's usually fire."

                ESG, I have 2 words for you...Cat Stevens

                Comment


                • I am an independent issues voter. I am sad today - mostly for our young women who will in all likelihood, not have the opportunity to make their own decisions re: their bodies. I'm sad for our poor - as the gap between the haves and have nots continues to grow. I'm sad for our environment - that Bush's policies fall woefully short of preservation. I'm sad that our country is so deeply divided and even another 4 years won't likely heal that wound.

                  I'm sad for our solidiers and young men. Bush is war hungry - his plan was unsound plain and simple. What's next? Iran? Our children's children will still be paying for this - both with their wallets and their lives - as our international respect continues to errode.

                  I'm sure that many American's wallets are relieved this morning, but really, can that be enough?
                  *Faune D'Helby*

                  Comment


                  • <BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by ESG:
                    <BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by Simkie:
                    Not only does the Patriot act allow the to come into your home, search it, and arrest you, it allows for the to hold you without telling ANYONE they have you, without allowing you a phone call, and without allowing you representation.

                    I agree with Vandy--is this what you want?

                    I seriously doubt, pds or esg, that you have actually READ the act. Educate yourselves. <HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

                    As I mentioned to Vandy, there is still a small thing called "probable cause". No one is going to jump into your living room backed up by a SWAT team if you're not doing something suspicious or associating with someone who is. Call me naive if you want, but honest citizens aren't just picked at random to be descended upon and persecuted. Where there's smoke, there's usually fire. <HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

                    Wow, this is really amazing. I bet a lot of Jewish people thought that back in 1930s Germany. I bet a lot of people thought that in the once beautiful and peaceful Yugoslovia. I bet a lot of people thought that in 1960s Afganistan. Those who do not learn from history are destined to repeat it...
                    On the Internet, nobody knows you're a dog

                    Comment


                    • <BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by mpeylin:
                      you know what/ we flew home from key west this weekend, both of us with airline staff luggage (he's a pilot, I was using one of his bags) but we'd actually bought tickets.

                      And we got "randomly selected."

                      And it was a huge hassle, especially when they repacked my bag and broke my Maui Jim sunglasses.

                      And I'd do it every time I fly. I think they should profile, but they don't. And it "infringed" upon me, I missed my chance to eat some dinner before our flight and I had to stand barefoot in the airport (ewww).

                      And I don't care. Infringe all you want if it'll make the world a better place. Within reason, of course, and I think that they stay within that reason. If I was sending $5,000 western union to someone with a strange name, please question me about it. I have nothing to hide and I welcome the hassle if it keeps us and our children and our grandchildren safe.

                      Sometimes I wish someone in the Muslim community would say "go ahead, profile us, we realize it needs to be done." and then they STILL kept the random selection. <HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

                      <span class="ev_code_PURPLE">Thank you. Very, very well put. </span>
                      In loving memory of Laura Jahnke.
                      A life lived by example, done too soon.
                      www.caringbridge.org/page/laurajahnke/

                      Comment


                      • (Anyone interested in a small side bet on what page this thread gets closed?)

                        Comment


                        • <BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by ailis36:
                          ESG, I have 2 words for you...Cat Stevens <HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

                          Right back atcha. I'd have booted his Islamic a$$ back out of the country, too.
                          In loving memory of Laura Jahnke.
                          A life lived by example, done too soon.
                          www.caringbridge.org/page/laurajahnke/

                          Comment


                          • <BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by LMH:
                            (Anyone interested in a small side bet on what page this thread gets closed?) <HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

                            Oh, I give it another couple of pages or so after the first warning from the mods to stay on topic.
                            In loving memory of Laura Jahnke.
                            A life lived by example, done too soon.
                            www.caringbridge.org/page/laurajahnke/

                            Comment


                            • <BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by mpeylin:
                              Sometimes I wish someone in the Muslim community would say "go ahead, profile us, we realize it needs to be done." and then they STILL kept the random selection. <HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

                              WOW!!! I'm sure the Jews in Germany sure are glad THEY took that stand! I really cannot believe I am reading this! Let's start putting armbands on them why don't we?? I mean, some may look "white"!!
                              On the Internet, nobody knows you're a dog

                              Comment


                              • <BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by mpeylin:


                                Sometimes I wish someone in the Muslim community would say "go ahead, profile us, we realize it needs to be done." and then they STILL kept the random selection. <HR></BLOCKQUOTE>


                                Whoa! Why do you think that the Muslim community needs to be profiled?

                                Comment


                                • <BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by ESG:
                                  Simkie and Vandy, even if the USA _is_ descending down the proverbial slippery slope, what exactly are you _personally _ going to do about it? Especially considering the fact that your chances of the majority of the populace doing anything about it have just been put on hold for the next four years............. <HR></BLOCKQUOTE>
                                  Good question, ESG. Quite truthfully, in the aftermath of this election, I feel kind of lost. Although I did my part and cast my vote, I feel guilty for not volunteering some time to Kerry's campaign, and helping to spread the word about the dangers of the Bush administration. I interned for Kerry when I was in college, and have done a lot of volunteer work for various causes, but the past few years I have been too busy with business and family to devote time to this. I sincerely regret this.

                                  Sadly, I feel that despite your lack of familiarity with the Patriot Act, you and I probably have a much more thorough understanding of the issues than the average American. I would really like my fellow Americans to become more educated about the issues - if that were the case, I firmly believe this election would have had a different outcome. I plan to do what little I can locally to help make this a reality.
                                  Ristra Ranch Equestrian Jewelry

                                  Comment


                                  • <BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by Porcelain Pony:
                                    Wow, this is really amazing. I bet a lot of Jewish people thought that back in 1930s Germany. I bet a lot of people thought that in the once beautiful and peaceful Yugoslovia. I bet a lot of people thought that in 1960s Afganistan. Those who do not learn from history are destined to repeat it... <HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

                                    Oh, so if I think that racial profiling of an entire religion whose sole mission is to kill infidels (that's us, y'all!) is a good thing, suddenly I'm a Nazi sympathizer? Okay, whatever. And bear in mind who kicked the Nazi's collective butts, too, before you get too carried away..........................
                                    In loving memory of Laura Jahnke.
                                    A life lived by example, done too soon.
                                    www.caringbridge.org/page/laurajahnke/

                                    Comment


                                    • thanks

                                      BC - and Kerry was the people's president? how much did he and his wife pay in taxes last year? He said he had a plan and he never shared his plan with us. I never read any of kerry's environmental plan ... only hearda bout vietnam anyway.

                                      You guys do realize, that way back when *(maybe even during primaries) there was an ad and e-mails (they send me the dem talking points) stressing how Kerry was a huge backer of the Pat. Act? I never did look up if it was true or not, but it was initially in the talking points, before (I guess) they realized it was better to be out. I wish I still had that.

                                      Comment


                                      • <BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by Karosel:
                                        <BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by mpeylin:


                                        Sometimes I wish someone in the Muslim community would say "go ahead, profile us, we realize it needs to be done." and then they STILL kept the random selection. <HR></BLOCKQUOTE>


                                        Whoa! Why do you think that the Muslim community needs to be profiled? <HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

                                        Read the Koran and you'll find out.
                                        In loving memory of Laura Jahnke.
                                        A life lived by example, done too soon.
                                        www.caringbridge.org/page/laurajahnke/

                                        Comment


                                        • I didn't read all of the pages so forgive me if I am repeating a sentiment that has already been expressed.

                                          I am just relieved that at the very least the popular vote and the electoral vote will be going to the same person. I am not a Bush supporter or for that matter a Republican supporter (I am THE definition of Liberal Democrat), but since Dubya has the reins once again I will suck it up and support our unfortunately divided country however I can.

                                          That being said I agree with many political pundits who have said that the healing should begin with election reform. The country has NO faith in the election process. It's unfortunate. I hope Bush makes that a starting point for his attempt at reuniting this country.

                                          In the meantime I turn my thoughts to 2008. I firmly believe that we will see Senator Hillary CLinton running for the Democratic Party. However analysts have been saying that it also seems likely that we will have a Republican ticket of my two very favorite Republicans (for personal reasons not for their party affiliations)....Rudy Guiliani and John McCain. That may be the only Rep ticket I'd vote for....of course the liberal femi-nazi in me is screaming vote Hill baby!

                                          we'll see...
                                          Remember...though eagles may soar, weasles never get sucked into a jet engine.

                                          Soar like a weasle my friend.

                                          Comment

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