Bush wins as Kerry concedes

[Invested1]

For those who think this thread should be closed--STOP reading it!

[eclipse]

And now to lighten the mood (because the 2 sides will never agree....and just because I'm a Canuck!) here's the latest from Canada!!
_______________

We Finally Figured Out How To Negotiate With Americans!

In recent negotiations for influenza vaccine between a Canadian
health official and an American representative,
it was clear that there was a disconnect between the American
government's sudden reliance on Canada for influenza
vaccine, despite the fact that the U.S. wants to discourage Americans
from buying routine prescription drugs from Canadian pharmacies.

Not seeing the irony in the request, the American continued to press
for the vaccine and then demanded to know why
the United States would be charged for the vaccine when Canadians get
theirs "for free."

The Canadian official replied, "Oh it's not free, the government pays
for it."
"Well then," the American replied, "How much will it cost us?"
The Canadian replied, "Well, we don't know...we'll let you know."

In frustration, the American replied, "Well, it's urgent, so just
send an invoice with the shipment.
By the way...how will the vaccine be delivered?"

After careful consideration, the Canadian official replied, "By cow.
Twenty vials of vaccine will be tied around the neck
of every cow that passes over the border. Now...if you want faster
delivery, there are some softwood lumber trucks available..."

[hunt_jump]

<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by Ruby G. Weber:
I voted for Bush.
As for the economy stupid...anybody notice the market was up over 100 after Kerry conceded?
I hope Bush finishes what he started. Then he can had the reins over to McCain in'08. <HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

I haven't had a chance to flip on CNBC, but from the pre opening bell reports I would guess that this is probably a recovery of the Pharmaceuticals sell off that the early Kerry favoring exit polls yesterday incited along with the fact that oil was on the rise again this am due to the predicted Bush win. Honestly, I am with the person who said that the market being up today is not a good indicator of the current health of the economy for the general working person. For those of us who's income depends on the market shifts, then yes to us maybe the economy is looking good from a 100+ point gain on the news of a Bush re-election, but for the general working person who barely even has a 401k if anything invested beyond their daily world and maybe the company they used to work for it does not help them get a job to go to tomorrow or put food on their table tonight. Not to mention that if my guess on the oil prices is correct they can expect to pay even more to put gas in their car to go look for work next week. So yes, to a lot of people, it is "the economy stupid".

This makes about as much sense to me as the campaign against the Constitutional Amendment in FL for a state minimum wage. They claimed that a state minimum wage (which passed by the way and increases our minimum wage to 6.15/hour) would kill the FL economy, cause job losses, and send jobs overseas. Please, would somebody show me these jobs that they are going to send overseas since a large portion of the FL economy that relies on minimum wage jobs is retail, service, theme park, and agricultural. These are not jobs you can just ship off to a far away land

[Susan P]

When your country is attacked let's see how you feel. My daughter in law stood at her front door and saw the smoke from the twin towers with my grandson in the apartment and my son was preparing for a day at work.

Slugs like you said the USA deserves it, we had it coming. I do not consider Canada a friend to the USA nor an ally. Furthermore you have no say in our nation's business, we've been covering your back for years and after 9-11 you stabbed us in ours.

Why don't you liberals report me too!

<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by Karosel:
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by Fessy's Mom:
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by eventamy:
Fessy's Mom,
That was a disgusting comment. I've reported to the administrators about your post. Shame on you! <HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

What comment? <HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

Probably this "Not all Muslims are terrorists, but all the terrorists are Muslims." <HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

[subk]

Oh puleese!

Heinz Kerry came out and insulted all of us who have choosen to quit our jobs and stay at home to raise our children when she said Mrs. Bush was not connected to the "real world" because she had never had a "real job." Maybe if I was a billion-heiress and had plenty of staff to raise my children I wouldn't think being a stay at home home was a real job either. (Let's just forget for a momment the Mrs. Bush taught in the public school system and had a masters degree!)

Or we can talk about how the children of hurricanne stricken Haiti don't have a priority need for clothing because they "can run around naked." Nevermind that she was telling all those volunteers they were doing the job wrong. Or we can talk about how she cusses out reporters.

You are wrong if you think the deplomacy skills of a First Lady is NOT a "real issue."

If I want to poke a little fun at her while trying to lighten this discussion you need to just get over it, and get over yourself.
eponacelt, calling me the devil incarnate is pretty amazing and uncalled for.

[mairzeadoats]

I just thought of something rather funny. At least to me.

Back in the late 60s when protesting the Vietnam War was at it's height, the rightwing answer to dissent was, "America, Love it or Leave it!"

So when we worked to fix what was broken, we were told like it the way it is or get out.

Now, when we try to leave, we're told, "stay and work at it." If we say, "I give up, it's broken beyond repair. I'm leaving." we're labeled immature so pack up and get out faster.

It's "my way or the highway" with these folks. And then when you choose the highway (or, maybe, the high road) they still can't be pleased.

Anyway, to those who keep suggesting that people who "threaten" to leave are "immature," I have a recent experience to share.

Last summer I visited the new home of a couple to inspect their property for toxic plants, helping them to decide whether to rototill and replant before bringing home their horses. This was a conservative, career military couple in their late 40s/early 50s; one retired and working in the private sector, and the other due to retire in a few years. We got to discussing the state of our society in general, and its recent decline. I have just left a nightmare situation with a criminal fresh from prison, and had just learned that one reason I had such a hard time getting help during 3 years of 24x7 harrassment was that the police department in my town had drastic funding and people cuts thanks to Bush ending the 100,000 extra police program.

Anyway, in response to my expression of concern about rising crime and violence and the general decline of our society, they *whispered* to me that, due to this very thing and the direction this country has headed in the last 3-4 years, they had decided to leave... pending the outcome of the election. They made it clear that they blame this administration.

This wasn't a young, impulsive, immature, flaky liberal nutcase couple. These were mature, thoughtful, conservative career-military people. For the record, Spain was their top choice at that point.

[bumknees]

<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by mairzeadoats:
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by horseless no more:
Why is it that those who supported Kerry keep thinking that bush et al ever said anything about reenstating the draft except to say no wil not happen.
<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

First, Bush has already sneakily re-instated a draft by holding people who's contractual obligations are completed in Iraq. Also by calling up National Guard people who are in their 60s and even 70s! Apparently once you enlist for that, they own you till you're dead.

Well that is not entirely correct. however in a way it is. there WAS a genteleman in my husbands NG unit who was getting ready to retire when they were called to active duty. He was give a choice of retireing or going. He chose to go. And yes until you 'get out' of the National Guard yes the goverment does own you. read ther stip on the uniform sometime it clearly states "U.S. ARMY " so there for when the need ofthe goverment is such it can call upon the national guard to serve either here or over seas. the unit my husband is in served in germany during WWII, Korea, didnt go to vietnam &lt; went to Kent State instead&gt;.


Second, as already mentioned, Bush's first generals who said they would need more people to keep the peace were fired. Their replacements -- who told Bush what he wanted to hear instead of what he needed to know -- now have changed their tunes and say they need more feet on the ground.

those who were fired' were 'fired' during the Clinton years not the Bush years. It was known as Reduction In Forces aka RIF. very few people are 'fired' from the military unless they screw up really bad and there are no ground for Court Martial I can think of one person I have had 'personel' contact with... And he screwed up BAD.


Third, not surprisingly, enlistments are down.

this is only partially correct the regular military enlistments are on target with some going over target having to tell recrutes that their wait to go to boot camp could be uop to 1 1/2 yrs. Now the National Guard you are correct that they did not meet target numbes. down I beleave 1500(?) from what they usually have.

Fourth, with something like 50% of the National Guard taken off their expected jobs protecting us here, and sent overseas, has left a shortage of people to fight wildfires, help rebuild after hurricanes, etc. back here at home.

<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

there are plently of guard units still in this country I cn think of several in my state alne. And at least 3 are due to return beforethe end of the year wit hone already returing sometime within the last month.

[Heidi]

Such eloquence and an impressive command of the facts!

<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>Slugs like you said the USA deserves it, we had it coming. I do not consider Canada a friend to the USA nor an ally. Furthermore you have no say in our nation's business, we've been covering your back for years and after 9-11 you stabbed us in ours. <HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

We Canadian slugs volunteered with the clean-up post 9/11. Many, many firemen, policemen with trained canines volunteered their time. We raised money and held countless vigils and memorials across this country.

We Canadian slugs also recognize that an isolationist and myopic worldview is dangerous.

Covering our backs? You make the States sound like Starsky and Hutch.

As the largest trading partner to the U.S., as neighbours to your north, it's rather specious to insist that we are not affected by events, political and otherwise, in the U.S.

Yup, guess 51% of Americans did truly elect a president that mirrors their beliefs.

[soloudinhere]

<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by Madison:
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by laurencsi03:I am horrified that in modern times one person can gain the power to decide for millions of Americans what they can and cannot do with their own bodies and lives. And I am further disgusted that people think that just because he won 51% of the vote, that is fair and okay. It's not. <HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

Ok, let me get this straight. Bush won 51% of the popular vote (which of course the Democrats advocated as the end-all and be-all 4 years ago) and that is "disgusting" and "not fair" because you don't like the outcome and disagree with his policies? And, you believe the President decides and controls everything? If so, that should save the country a lot of money on Congressional and judicial salaries . Sorry to be tongue-in-cheek, but your logic is a tough sell. You don't have to like Bush, you don't have to agree with him, but you should at least recognize and respect that others have the right to, and have reasons to, disagree with your view of the world, and that is a _positive_ part of the democratic process. <HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

No. It means that not only will the house and senate be republican, but the supreme court will be too. Thus, that will provide Bush the means to do something he's been itching to do for a long time: overturn Roe v. Wade and violate the constitutional rights of all American women. At least Kerry recognized that it was not the right of the government to make your choice for you.

Suddely, just because Bush won 51%, it's okay that the entire system of checks and balances has tipped completely right and the 49% of Americans who think Bush is not the right person for this country have to suffer through four more years of economic mismanagement and civil rights violations.

If that's what you believe in, fine, but it is clear that Bush's party controls this country now and those of us who believe in our rights and the right to keep them are in trouble.

I'm not objecting to anyone's point of view but Bush's. It's his point of view that's going to impact the 49% of people who DON'T want him in office.

51% may equal a majority, but it doesn't mean everybody's suddenlu going to support Bush. There's still that 49% that disagree with him. 2% is not exactly a large margin to rest easy on.

[eclipse]

<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR> When your country is attacked let's see how you feel. My daughter in law stood at her front door and saw the smoke from the twin towers with my grandson in the apartment and my son was preparing for a day at work.

Slugs like you said the USA deserves it, we had it coming. I do not consider Canada a friend to the USA nor an ally. Furthermore you have no say in our nation's business, we've been covering your back for years and after 9-11 you stabbed us in ours. <HR></BLOCKQUOTE>
____________

Oh, so we have no say in your countries business, but your Government thinks it has every right to a say in our business!! Get your facts straight. We ARE an ally, & we haven't ridden on your coattails. Yes we depend on you for armed protection (our idiot PM doens't believe in spending on our military), but where do you think much of your oil, wheat, meat comes from........yep Canada. And, guess who's Gov't stopped us exporting our cattle to the US........yep, yours. So, of course we have a vested interest in who got elected. It's NOT just the US that is affected by this election, it's the WHOLE DAMN WORLD!!

Oh, and by the way, WE WERE affected by 9/11.......many of our civillians were killed in the attack & we wept with you. So, don't make it just YOUR battle, it's everyone's who believes in safety & democracy. You wonder why people in the rest of the world regard Americans with disdain & distrust, when all we here are comments like yours it's no wonder!

[slp]

FYI for those of you planning on leaving for Canada soon. Remember, Canada is a separate country, NOT the 51st state that you can just hop on over to and move in whenever the urge strikes.

--------------------------------------------
Unhappy Democrats Need to Wait to Get Into Canada
Wed Nov 3, 2004 01:16 PM ET

By David Ljunggren
OTTAWA (Reuters) - Disgruntled Democrats seeking a safe Canadian haven after President Bush won Tuesday's election should not pack their bags just yet.

Canadian officials made clear on Wednesday that any U.S. citizens so fed up with Bush that they want to make a fresh start up north would have to stand in line like any other would-be immigrants -- a wait that can take up to a year.

"You just can't come into Canada and say 'I'm going to stay here'. In other words, there has to be an application. There has to be a reason why the person is coming to Canada," said immigration ministry spokeswoman Maria Iadinardi.

There are anywhere from 600,000 to a million Americans living in Canada, a country that leans more to the left than the United States and has traditionally favored the Democrats over the Republicans.

But recent statistics show a gradual decline in U.S. citizens coming to work in Canada, which has a creaking publicly funded healthcare system and relatively high levels of personal taxation.

Government officials, real estate brokers and Democrat activists said that while some Americans might talk about a move to Canada rather than living with a new Bush administration, they did not expect a mass influx.

"It's one thing to say 'I'm leaving for Canada' and quite another to actually find a job here and wonder about where you're going to live and where the children are going to go to school," said one government official.

Roger King of the Toronto-based Democrats Abroad group said he had heard nothing to back up talk of a possible exodus of party members.

"I imagine most committed Democrats will want to stay in the United States and continue being politically active there," he told Reuters.

Americans seeking to immigrate can apply to become permanent citizens of Canada, a process that often takes a year. Becoming a full citizen takes a further three years.

The other main way to move north on a long-term basis is to find a job, which in all cases requires a work permit. This takes from four to six months to come through.

Official statistics show the number of U.S. workers entering Canada dropped to 15,789 in 2002 from 21,627 in 2000. Early indicators on Wednesday showed little sign of this changing.
A spokesman for Canada's foreign affairs ministry said there had been no increase in the number of hits on the Washington embassy's immigration Web site, while housing brokers said they doubted they would see a surge in U.S. business.

"Canada's always open and welcoming to Americans who want to relocate here, but we don't think it would be a trend or movement," said Gino Romanese of Royal Lepage Residential Real Estate Services in Toronto.

Those wishing to move to Canada could always take a risk and claim refugee status -- the path chosen earlier this year by two U.S. deserters who opposed the war in Iraq.

"Anybody who enters Canada who claims refugee status will be provided with a work permit ... it doesn't matter what country they're from," Iadinardi said.

Refugee cases are handled by special boards, which can take months to decide whether to admit applicants. The rulings can be appealed and opposition politicians complain some people ordered deported have been in Canada for 10 years or more.

[Susan P]

Why shame on either side, there was definetly not enough votes left for Kerry to be a winner, it was a wise decision and Bush only accepted his consession and had no choice. What would you have expected either candidate to do? Wait for what, more embarressment? Neither party was wrong here, it was obvious and the numbers where already known.

<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by jacksmom:
yesterday america answered a call. no one should claim victory or defeat until every vote is counted. period. shame on both sides. <HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

[Posting Trot]

I voted, and proudly, for John Kerry. He's honorable, thoughtful, well-educated, cares about common people and is willing to work to help them better their lives. He knows how to draw a line between church and state, and he's respectful and tolerant of other choices and beliefs. He headed up the investigation of rumors of POW-MIAs in Vietnam and investigated the BCCI (Bank of Commerce and Credit International, which was a major drug laundering international commercial bank). He understands that terrorism is a tactic that is being used by non-state entities, more similar to international drug rings than anything else. Facts matter to him.

I also don't like Bush, and will happily elaborate. But since someone wanted affirmative reasons for being pro-Kerry, I thought I'd chime in.

[subk]

Nice post Posting Trot. It is refreshing to hear postive reasoning, even if I don't agree with you!

[hunt_jump]

<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by subk:
Wow! This thread was getting longer faster than I can read. A few points:

1. Those of you on both sides of the "mulsim profiling" issue should smack yourself. What is being profiled are individuals of middle eastern descent. Many of YOU would be offended to have it assumed you are christian/jewish/wiccan because of your appearance. Profiling works. Talk to a law enforcement officer who has been sent to Quantico to study the processes. And EGS has a very valid point--the acts of international terrorism that have target the U.S. has been committed by young men of middle eastern descent. Quite frankly, I could careless what their religion is.
<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

Just because something works doesn't mean that it is ethical or should be legal. Profiling is discrimination plain and simple. It is singling out one group of people from another based on a differing characteristic - that is not what this country is supposed to be about. Isn't that why we fought the civil rights battle? Have you ever been the victim of profiling? I have not personally, but I had a very good friend in high school that was pulled over at night by local law enforcement on a profiling stop and illegally searched as a 16 year old. She was terrified despite the fact that she had no reason to fear anything being found as she was as clean as they came.

<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>
2. For those of you concerned about the Patriot Act I would encourge you to study the laws on the books concerning enforcement drug laws. I look forward to watching the political fall out in your advocation of lessening the ablities of law enforcement crack down on the drug trade. <HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

I think that this would fall into my statement about profiling. Though I am so glad to know that the fight against illegal drug trade is so good at stopping my prescriptions at the boarder while boat loads of truly illegal drug float into Port Everglades. Why is it that we can't seem to put together the intellect of this country and find ETHICAL ways to go about crime fighting that are EFFECTIVE? But then again, I am pretty big on personal responsibility, ethics, and morality which are apparently on the decline in this country if the big business brouhahas of the last few years are any sign.

<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>
3. I'm stunned that Kerry was so politically inept that he could not capitalize on Bush's weakness. It should have been a cakewalk for him. That he would intentionally focus attention on 3 purple hearts that required not a single day in the hospital tells me he is not and has not surrounded himself with politically competent people and is not prepared to be the President.
[QUOTE]

I am very surprised that no one brought up Bush's promises that he was not a nation builder Ok, so we'll just go in and bomb the he!! out of them and then leave - right. Oh well, as they say, hindsight is 20/20 and the democrats have enough time to kick themselves over what should have been done that I am sure they don't need any help.

[QUOTE]
4. The 3 years since 9/11 is the longest we gone without a terrorist attack in decades. <HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

I'm sure that Spain and Indonesia are glad that we are chasing them off of our turf. How many Americans have been killed due to terrorism and our fight with terrorism in the last three years?

<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>
5. 27% of 18-35 year olds voted in 2000. 27% of 18-35 year olds voted in 2004. How many of you fall in that age group?
<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

Yes, and I have only missed voting in one election since the month after I turned 18 and that was the democratic primary this year. So I am included in that 27% for both 2000 and 2004. I am also in the women demographic which did not go up either if I am not mistaken.


<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>6. I'm not sure what I find more distasteful. Those that think they should leave the country (like college is some reason you can't?--I'd hate for you to be inconvienced) or citizens of other countries telling me I should be ashamed of my democracy. <HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

Actually, as a 26 year old undergraduate attending one of the top schools in the region tuition paid, no I can't leave. And it is not by inconvenience, it is by what I consider a necessity in my life. I have a lot invested already and a college education is one of the largest investments one can make in life. Oh no, I'm one of those intellectual types I guess.

As for others saying you should be ashamed of you democracy, I agree. But isn't it a bit of a double standard to say that people shouldn't say that you should be ashamed of your democracy when all the US has been doing for the past three years (and much further into history) is that people should change their governments. Who are we to say how someone else's country should be managed?? We are not a supreme being here in the US, we are not supposed to be out to rule the world (though that is exactly what is feels like as of late).

[eponacelt]

<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by Posting Trot:
I voted, and proudly, for John Kerry. He's honorable, thoughtful, well-educated, cares about common people and is willing to work to help them better their lives. He knows how to draw a line between church and state, and he's respectful and tolerant of other choices and beliefs. He headed up the investigation of rumors of POW-MIAs in Vietnam and investigated the BCCI (Bank of Commerce and Credit International, which was a major drug laundering international commercial bank). He understands that terrorism is a tactic that is being used by non-state entities, more similar to international drug rings than anything else. Facts matter to him.

I also don't like Bush, and will happily elaborate. But since someone wanted affirmative reasons for being pro-Kerry, I thought I'd chime in. <HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

Thank you, Posting Trot!

Can someone give me a similiar reasoning for voting for Bush? I'm not talking about negative reasons, but positive ones.

Thanks.

[armandh]

to the sore LOOSERS "TS" to the gracious "lets work together"
the popular vote shows a conservative shift.
to those who would rather beat swords in to plow shears,
you will likely be peasants for those who didn't.
to the xenophobic of the north...beer eh?

[Coreene]

And no matter whether the outcome made you happy or sad, angry or joyous, smile that we are able to freely share our views about it.

[mairzeadoats]

<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by horseless no more:

Second, as already mentioned, Bush's first generals who said they would need more people to keep the peace were fired. Their replacements -- who told Bush what he wanted to hear instead of what he needed to know -- now have changed their tunes and say they need more feet on the ground.

those who were fired' were 'fired' during the Clinton years not the Bush years."
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>

I cannot remember his name off the top of my head, but Bush fired (or forced into retirement) the original generals offering war plans who said they'd need hundreds of thousands of "boots on the ground" to win the peace in Iraq. They were replaced because they didn't tell him what he wanted to hear, they told him what he needed to know. As a result of Bush's inability to hear any expert who doesn't tell him what he wants to hear, Iraq is now descending into a quagmire on the brink of civil war.

<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

there are plently of guard units still in this country I cn think of several in my state alne. And at least 3 are due to return beforethe end of the year wit hone already returing sometime within the last month. <HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

Fully 50% of the guard is overseas. I would not be surprised if the slowness of rebuilding after the hurricanes is in part due to the people and equipment who would have helped out are not available. For example, I have a friend who's land was covered with rocks from a flashflood of an adjacent river...piled up to 4 feet deep. She is getting no assistance in the clean up, beyond a permit and 45 day limit to find somebody with the right equipment and thousands of dollars to pay for it. Her community was devastated by the flooding. In the past, the national guard would have been there with equipment to help clean up.

In terms of wildfires, we got off easy this past summer. If we have a bad year next summer, we will pay.

And we'll be in serious trouble if/when there is a major terrorist attack. I personally believe that the National Guard should have been kept at home guarding our ports and borders, and ready to respond to emergencies here.

I fully and unequivocally supported the war in Afghanistan, as did the rest of the civilized world and all of our allies. That was reasonable and appropriate.

I also don't understand why this administration so blithely mocked those same allies (remember Freedom Fries ) when they balked at an unprovoked attack on a country that had been under our thumbs for over a decade and was clearly not an imminent threat. Had Bush just once been willing to listen to an opinion, not to mention a few facts, other than those fed to him by his cohorts, we might not find ourselves in this mess.

Ah well. What's done is done. But the whole thing makes me sick. It was bad enough to grow up paying for the Vietnam disaster (which I am happy to blame on the democrat President Johnson). I really, really, really don't want to have to pay for Iraq.

Which brings me to another topic.

To those of you who voted for Bush because you find stem cell research morally repugnant and can't stand being forced to fund it, I have an offer! I'd be more than happy to take on *your* share of taxes that could pay for stem cell research because I honestly don't believe that a small mass of undifferentiated cells are a human being.

I do have one small request in return, however. In exchange, *you* can take on *my* share of taxes that pays for the Iraq war, which has so far killed somewhere between 8,000 and 100,000 actual living, breathing human beings! Because personally, I find *that* morally repugnant (not to mention foolish to destroy one terrorist haven, only to create another!)

[LMH]

To those of you who voted for Bush because you find stem cell research morally repugnant and can't stand being forced to fund it, I have an offer! I'd be more than happy to take on *your* share of taxes that could pay for stem cell research because I honestly don't believe that a small mass of undifferentiated cells are a human being.
QUOTE:
I do have one small request in return, however. In exchange, *you* can take on *my* share of taxes that pays for the Iraq war, which has so far killed somewhere between 8,000 and 100,000 actual living, breathing human beings! Because personally, I find *that* morally repugnant (not to mention foolish to destroy one terrorist haven, only to create another!)

<span class="ev_code_BLUE">Were it only that simple that we had to pay for what we liked in our country...oh how I can hear my pennies jingling now.</span>