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Bush wins as Kerry concedes

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  • <BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>And thank you, but I have read enough of the Koran (English translation, of course) to know that they don't like us, they'll never like us and their holy duty is to try to exterminate us. Period. <HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

    ESG - I won't take this personally even though a good portion of my family is Muslim. Go figure, in my family muslims marry jews I think the fear that many of us have is understandable - afterall, the hijackers used their Muslim religion as an excuse to kill thousands of Americans. But I can tell you, being "Muslim" has nothing to do with it. Islam is a peaceful faith. The fanatics are hiding behind their "religion" just as the very few Christian fanatics who kill abortion doctors hide behind their religion. Both are wrong - but neither, thankfully, is the majority. The same could be said for any religious sect, don't you think?
    *Faune D'Helby*

    Comment


    • I have read on this post where Kerry supporters (or anti-Bush people) have noted the reasons why they chose to vote for Kerry. They have clearly stated what their beliefs are and what their hopes are for the country.

      I have read the entire thread and haven't really seen any Bush supporters standing up and saying WHY they support him. What is it about his beliefs and the way he has run the country makes you think that he was the better candidate? And I'm not trying to be snarky, I really want to understand.

      Do you believe in war? Do you think it was a good idea to send people over to Iraq? Do you think that you will be better off four years from now than you are today? And for that matter, are you better off today than you were four years ago? Do you think the country is? Where does he align with your beliefs?
      "A horse's face always conveys clearly whether it is loved by its owner or simply used." - Anja Beran

      Comment


      • <BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by Magnolia:
        <BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR> So because some individuals, or an isolated group of a country did a terrible act the rest of the citizens of that country have to be punished as well?
        <HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

        Yes - "we stick a boot up your ass, it's the American Way" <HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

        I find that absolutely disgusting. You should be ashamed to have that outlook.

        Comment


        • War is viagra for the aging baby boomers, like the Hummers they drive.

          Where did all the people who once inspired me in my youth go? Guess they are comfy on their lazy boys watching the world as if it was football game. What a sorry mess we are in.

          Bush's administration does nothing but scare me. I have no confidence in his leadership for either the economy or in world politics. I wasn't happy with all the answers I heard from Kerry either, but thought he'd make a better leader to fix the mess without creating more.

          Here is to four more years of war in Iraq and elsewhere. At least Bush and the legislators will have to clean up his/their own mess. Then we can reassess where we are in 2008.

          O.K. you all can go back to the Muslim debate

          Comment


          • You're my hero ESG I studied rhetoric in college, and ole Aristotle would be proud ofyou. I LOVE a good debate.
            One cannot think well, love well, sleep well, if one has not dined well. - Virginia Woolf

            Comment


            • <BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by Boston Chicken:
              <BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>And thank you, but I have read enough of the Koran (English translation, of course) to know that they don't like us, they'll never like us and their holy duty is to try to exterminate us. Period. <HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

              ESG - I won't take this personally even though a good portion of my family is Muslim. Go figure, in my family muslims marry jews I think the fear that many of us have is understandable - afterall, the hijackers used their Muslim religion as an excuse to kill thousands of Americans. But I can tell you, being "Muslim" has nothing to do with it. Islam is a peaceful faith. The fanatics are hiding behind their "religion" just as the very few Christian fanatics who kill abortion doctors hide behind their religion. Both are wrong - but neither, thankfully, is the majority. The same could be said for any religious sect, don't you think? <HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

              Very well said.

              Comment


              • Ok, ok, ok. In the midst of fellow COTHers bickering over the Koran, I just want to quote Kerry on something he just said (without sounding too cheesy):

                Despite which candidate becomes successful in any election, every single one of us wakes up tomorrow as an American.

                Comment


                • <BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by KC Passion:
                  Ok, ok, ok. In the midst of fellow COTHers bickering over the Koran, I just want to quote Kerry on something he just said (without sounding too cheesy):

                  Despite which candidate becomes successful in any election, every single one of us wakes up tomorrow as an American. <HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

                  Yes this is true, but will you wake up proud to be an American?

                  Comment


                  • <BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by Simkie:
                    <BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>Wait, now; I'm confused again. You're sooo anti-Bush but you don't know how Kerry would have done any better? Could you elaborate on that, please? <HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

                    Why did you vote Bush, ESG?

                    <span class="ev_code_PURPLE">Because he stood up and didn't run when Saddam kept putting off the UN inspectors......for years. Because he's not afraid to commit us to a course of action and back it up. I like that. </span>

                    I voted Kerry because I'm pro-choice. Because I'm pro same sex marriage. Because the economy is in the toilet, and something HAS to change. Because boys (and girls) are dying in Iraq, and that needs to change. Because I'm all for stem cell research.

                    <span class="ev_code_PURPLE">I, too, am pro-choice. And if I thought there was a snowball's chance in hell that Bush could actually overturn Roe vs. Wade, I'd be worried. But I don't think there is. And the economy being in the toilet isn't just a result of his policies; as Blinky mentioned, some of it is the culmination of what Mr. Clinton put into action. I'm not absolving him of some responsibility, but I'm not placing all the blame on him, either. And I don't approve of same-sex marriages. And "boys and girls" that are fighting in Iraq are soldiers who chose to be there. Having been married to an Army Ranger and Green Beret for more years than I care to remember, I probably know that side of it a bit better than you do. They chose to fight, they go where they're needed and they do their job. </span>

                    But mostly--because Bush has had four years in office. This country is NOT in a better place than it was four years ago. Why do you think the next four years will be ANY different?

                    <span class="ev_code_PURPLE">I don't know that they'll be better, but since the economy is getting better, I look for it to continue. And Kerry scared the heck out of me. I don't like his policies, I don't like where he stands on the majority of the issues, so that's why I didn't vote for him. And personally, I think he's a slimeball, but that's just how he hits me. </span>

                    Hell, it could have been Mickey Mouse running against Bush, and I would have voted for him.

                    <span class="ev_code_PURPLE">Now THAT would have been interesting! </span>

                    I'm embarrassed to be an american. I'm embarrassed to live in a state that went Bush. This isn't my country. <HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

                    <span class="ev_code_PURPLE">Wow. Then what are you still doing here? If I were really as embarassed as you purport to be, I'd be making arrangments to leave. I mean, why stress yourself like that? </span>
                    In loving memory of Laura Jahnke.
                    A life lived by example, done too soon.
                    www.caringbridge.org/page/laurajahnke/

                    Comment


                    • <BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by Karosel:
                      <BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by KC Passion:
                      Ok, ok, ok. In the midst of fellow COTHers bickering over the Koran, I just want to quote Kerry on something he just said (without sounding too cheesy):

                      Despite which candidate becomes successful in any election, every single one of us wakes up tomorrow as an American. <HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

                      Yes this is true, but will you wake up _proud_ to be an American? <HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

                      Yup! Wholeheartedly.
                      model citizen, zero discipline

                      Comment


                      • Well maybe some people won't answer the why did you vote for Bush question because it isn't very fun being attacked if you admit to being a Conservative Christian or Pro-Life...or if you agree with the war.

                        Seems tolerance isn't common in BB threads so it doesn't seem worth the discussion.

                        Carry on!

                        Comment


                        • <BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by Karosel:
                          <BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by KC Passion:
                          Ok, ok, ok. In the midst of fellow COTHers bickering over the Koran, I just want to quote Kerry on something he just said (without sounding too cheesy):

                          Despite which candidate becomes successful in any election, every single one of us wakes up tomorrow as an American. <HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

                          Yes this is true, but will you wake up _proud_ to be an American? <HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

                          Of course I will. Just because what I believe might be false leadership (in some instances) in my country doesn't mean that it has to compromise my patriotism.

                          Comment


                          • <BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by ailis36:
                            Sorry ESG, that kind of BIGOTRY leaves me at a loss for words. <HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

                            Oh, please again. You've got no right to call me a bigot. You know nothing about me. Mind your manners and contribute to the discussion or belt up.
                            In loving memory of Laura Jahnke.
                            A life lived by example, done too soon.
                            www.caringbridge.org/page/laurajahnke/

                            Comment


                            • <BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by mpeylin:
                              I want to clarify. I'm not bashing muslims at all. All I said was there is a need, to some extent, to profile. Not as an end-all be-all but as a part of the process. And there is a line that needs to be drawn and I don’t know what to say about that, because that's a tough solution to find. And ANY religion has creepy radicals. Christians especially, actually, I guess. If you’re holed up in a compound with weapons, you’re no different and should be treated no differently just because you’re a Christian ... or Jewish ... or aethiest ... etc ... and not a Muslim. After 9/11 the country - no, world - changed. It will never - NEVER - be the same. To me, if that means giving up some of my civil liberties, that’s fine. I have nothing to hide. <HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

                              The problem with profiling isn't that it is wrong, or mean, or rude. The problem with profiling is that it doesn't work.

                              Consider. If you know that most burglars come through the door, and so you put a big massive unbreakable lock on the door, but you leave the windows open, are you safer?

                              If we profile, and let little old white ladies through without question, you can believe that terrorists will recruit little old white ladies - or heck, get a makeup artist who will do up 18 year old males as little old white ladies - and attack this way.

                              Drug smugglers have already been using babies to hide drugs. Often they buy babies from poor or drug addicted mothers in Asia.
                              If you are allergic to a thing, it is best not to put that thing in your mouth, particularly if the thing is cats. - Lemony Snicket

                              Comment


                              • I will only say it is a sad day in American history. Many years from now when the Supreme Court is so far right that we have no rights what will all the people say. Thank god I have no children to live in the world we are creating. I am no big Kerry fan but Bush has been and will continue to lead us down the wrong path. God help those with children or spouses in the Military.

                                Bodie wants me to move to borders north. He has a passport. I lived thru the 80's with Reagan so I guess I will survive the 2000's in the Bushs. Still I am sad.
                                Steph

                                http://community.webshots.com/user/stephanne014

                                Rerider/Haydunker Clique

                                RIP Barbaro, you were my hero!

                                Comment


                                • I have seen some disturbing things on this thread. I didn't think people really thought this way, but I am beginning to think I am naive. Here are a few quotes I found particularly scary:

                                  Oh, so if I think that racial profiling of an entire religion whose sole mission is to kill infidels (that's _us,_ y'all!) -

                                  If that were the sole mission of the Islamic religion, we'd have a much larger war on our hands right now. There have been many times throughout history when people following the Christian religion have persecuted entire other groups of people, such as the Crusades and the Jewish people throughout most of history. That is a very closed minded view, and quite ignorant of Islam. Do you actually know any Muslims, have you really studied the religion, or did you read your take on Islam in a newspaper?

                                  Details, please? And did you think Timothy McVeigh didn't deserve to be tried?-
                                  I think the intent of this statement is that T. McVeigh did deserve a trial, as called for in the US constitution, as do all people suspected of a crime. The premise here has always been innocent until proven guilty.

                                  guess I'm kinda stuck on that pesky commandment,"Thou shalt not kill." It doesn't say, "Thou shalt not kill anyone but infidels." Unless someone's changed it since I last looked......................
                                  - But it is okay that during the war in Iraq so many innocent bystanders have died because we suspected there were weapons of mass destruction (that were never actually found)? Don't those people's lives count in your 10 commandments, or maybe not because the majority of them were not christians?

                                  Comment


                                  • <BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>[color:PURPLE]I, too, am pro-choice. And if I thought there was a snowball's chance in hell that Bush could actually overturn Roe vs. Wade, I'd be worried. But I don't think there is. <HR></BLOCKQUOTE>
                                    You must have missed the discussion on NBC this morning about how it's entirely possible Roe v. Wade could be overturned.
                                    <BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>Wow. Then what are you still doing here? If I were really as embarassed as you purport to be, I'd be making arrangments to leave. I mean, why stress yourself like that? <HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

                                    Working on it, ESG.

                                    BTW, have you read Handmaid's Tale or Fahrenheit 451? No, we're not nearly there, but I think we're going in that direction.

                                    Comment


                                    • I will gladly answer your question - no flaming needed, our country could use a little communication

                                      You might like to know for reference that I am a 26 year old single white female from an upper-middle class family. I own a piece of a small business and have grown up in a family that was built on small business. I cannot leave the country at this point as much as I may discuss the point and would like too. Unfortunately, I am a college student and must first graduate - then I will see what my options are. I am a registered democrat and yes, I voted for and was/am a strong supporter of John Kerry's.

                                      Quite honestly the policies and views of the administration which has had the power in our country for the last four years scares me. Actually, they scare me far more than any terrorist since I am much more likely to see my rights impeded by my government than I am to be a victim of a foreign terrorist attack. But, then again I am much more likely to die in a car accident this afternoon than be the victim of a terrorist attack too. I don't feel any more or less safe from terrorism because of any action my government has taken in the last three years. Things that I hold sacred as an American have become threatened, however, in the last four years and are likely to become even more threatened in the next four in my eyes. I am a strong believer in equal rights and separation of church and state. These are basic rights upon which our country was founded and my elders have fought for through generations. I also believe in freedom - freedom of privacy, freedom of speech, freedom to do what I see fit with MY body... Yet these and many other American "ideals" seem to be disappearing with every blink of my eye. How much do you know about the Patriot Act? Most know very little beyond what their chosen news outlet says about it. It is not widely known what a scary little document that is. I am not a strong supporter for or against gay marriage, except for the fact that I believe that if marriage has benefits given by the government that they should cover ALL couples, gay, straight, or otherwise. To do otherwise IS discrimination.

                                      I also believe that the war in Iraq was wrong and I have believed that since before we invaded. Am I afraid of a possible need to reinstate a draft in the near future? You better believe I am! And I'm sick of being called unPatriotic because, gasp, I voice my opinion in a country which touts itself as the ultimate in democracy and freedom of speech. When did it become an American value to invade foreign countries because we need to "spread democracy". I heard a statement the other day from a politician in the current administration that the world would not be stable and safe until the Middle East was led by democracies. Where do we get off telling the rest of the world how to live???? Is our next mission going to be getting rid of any religions in which we don't believe?? Are we really going to rewind history all the way to the crusades? Taking a giant leap back in human society and technology is not unprecedented, and it often starts with statements and actions such as our president's statement about not wanting to be seen as an intellectual because that would make him an elitist (paraphrasing here).

                                      Have you traveled abroad recently? Customs and Immigration are very interesting these days. Would you like to know how close you are living to carry a national ID card complete with finger print records? That to me is the ultimate in scary, terrifying thoughts. I was in Brazil this summer and for an American citizen to enter Brazil not only do you have to jump through the hoops of visa and travel documents, but you have to go through a special line to get through Immigration that is specifically for those traveling on American passports because you have to be photographed and fingerprinted. I do not fault Brazil for this. Do you know why it even exists? Because the United States has instituted the practice for citizens that belong to a certain list of countries - including Brazil (Brazil was just reciprocating when they instituted the practice).

                                      The issue of most importance to me in this election was health care. In a little over 18 months I will be faced with losing my health insurance. This is a big deal to me as when June 1, 2006 roles around I will be a new college graduate with a monthly prescription drug bill larger than my horse's monthly full training and board bill I am not alone in this problem by a long shot. In one of my classes at a very well to do private college I know of multiple students (in a class of 15-20) who do not or will not have health insurance in the near future. Yet this does not seem to be a big concern to the politicians that continue to throw more debt onto the shoulders of my generation and the next with little thought.

                                      Yes, I fear for my future and for the future of my sister's children. Honestly, I am feeling that I stand further and further to the left in this country. I don't know if that is because so much of the country has moved to the right or if I am just drifting to the left more as I grow older and further my education. I would gladly move to center a bit, but not if the set-point for our center has truly shifted to the right and it involves compromising the hard won values upon which this country has been built. I would love to see this country come back together, but I honestly don't think that it is realistic to think that it will happen any time soon.
                                      ~ hunt_jump ~

                                      http://home.cfl.rr.com/huntjump

                                      Comment


                                      • Thank you ESG! MY sentiments exactly.

                                        Comment


                                        • <BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by ESG:
                                          I, too, am pro-choice. And if I thought there was a snowball's chance in hell that Bush could actually overturn Roe vs. Wade, I'd be worried. But I don't think there is. <HR></BLOCKQUOTE>
                                          There is a very good chance that up to 4 Supreme Court justices will be appointed during the next 4 years...Renquist among the 4. If you were Bush, would you be recommending appointment for someone who furthers your religious conservatism or someone who has a history of supporting women's rights including choice? I'm extremely worried that Roe v. Wade could be overturned. To say nothing of Mr. Bush's threats to propose a constitutional amendment that would ban same-sex marriage. Again, wasn't this nation founded to prevent discrimination and persecution of individuals who do not conform to someone's idea of "the norm?"

                                          Comment

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