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Do horses have souls- and how do you know ?

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  • #41
    This is a good question, and one that I really struggled with after I had to put my beloved Val down. I did however, came up with what I believe to be true.

    Oddly enough, the ONLY animals that the Bible EVER mentions(the part about how the Lion will lay down with the lamb, is referring to the Biblical Millennium, or Christ's thousand year rein here on earth. Read Isaiah 11:1-16 if you don't believe me) Is...yup, you guessed it - HORSES!.....

    2 And I saw, and behold a white horse: and he that sat on him had a bow; and a crown was given unto him: and he went forth conquering, and to conquer.

    3 And when he had opened the second seal, I heard the second beast say, Come and see.

    4 And there went out another horse that was red: and power was given to him that sat thereon to take peace from the earth, and that they should kill one another: and there was given unto him a great sword.

    5 And when he had opened the third seal, I heard the third beast say, Come and see. And I beheld, and lo a black horse; and he that sat on him had a pair of balances in his hand.

    6 And I heard a voice in the midst of the four beasts say, A measure of wheat for a penny, and three measures of barley for a penny; and see thou hurt not the oil and the wine.

    7 And when he had opened the fourth seal, I heard the voice of the fourth beast say, Come and see.

    8 And I looked, and behold a pale horse: and his name that sat on him was Death, and Hell followed with him. And power was given unto them over the fourth part of the earth, to kill with sword, and with hunger, and with death, and with the beasts of the earth. Revelation 6:2-8

    Also, Elijah was taken up to Heaven in a chariot pulled by horses (2 Kings 2:11) and in fact, there are enough horses for the vast armies of Heaven to ride to earth (Revelation 19:11) There are also invisible horses in angelic armies currently dispatched to earth (2 Kings 6:17)


    When a pet dies, I am always hearing "he'll be waiting for you at the Pearly Gates" While I think this is a very sweet sentiment, I personally don't agree with it. Mainly because, this would imply that EVERYONE is going to Heaven, and unfortunately, this is just not the case. The gift of eternal life is free for the taking, but we must choose to TAKE it. So, where does this leave our furry friends? I still don't know. The reason why we have to choose our salvation, is because we are sinful. Now, one might call a couple of my ponies sinful, on certain days, lol, but really, animals aren't sinful. Yes, I believe that they have feelings, and are capable of showing love, but they are not capable of choosing their own salvation, this, however, do not think would keep them from Heaven. To me, I picture Heaven being a beautiful Garden, and it is hard for me to imagine a Garden without birds, butterflies, and yes, of course horses. The questions of whether horses have souls, and do you think they go to Heaven, are personal ones, and not Salvation based. I know though, that wherever they end up, that God will take care of them, because they are his creations. All I can do is rest assured knowing that as a Christian, I WILL be going to Heaven, a place that God has promised, will NOT disappoint us in ANY way.

    But as it is written: eye has not seen, nor ear heard, Nor have entered into the heart of man
    The things which God has prepared for those who love Him. 1 Corinthians 2:9"
    Last edited by Freebird!; Feb. 5, 2007, 08:18 PM.
    The Equine Wellness and Nutrition FB Group - Come join us!!
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    • #42
      Freebird it is interesting that you should quote from Revelation as some-one sent it to me this week upon hearing of my loss of Heroicity.It was ,as I explained to them, that the night he died I awoke suddenly at 3.30am.It is not a normal occurrence for me to do this (unless the foaling alarm goes off.. )and I felt very unsettled.I went and checked all the horses here and everyone was fine so I got into my truck and drove down the road to another property I keep his daughters at. I pulled off the side of the road,climbed the fence and walked down the paddock which is on the side of a hill to the pond below. When his daughters heard me they all came running and followed me down. It was a beautiful night,full moon not a cloud in the sky and very still. Everyone seemed fine so I couldn't explain my anxious feeling .I leant on the gate and saw the 2 mares in the next field quietly grazing with their babies. Suddenly I felt a warm muzzle on my shoulder, without turning round I put my hand up as I knew it was Dazzle and stroked her nose."You silly thing" I said " Just like your Daddy used to " as this was Hero's favourite thing to do as he nuzzled me he would wiggle his top lip around like a real goof ball. As I continued to stroke her I felt a warm breeze pick up, it swept across the tall grass like waves on the ocean and I felt a peace and calmness pass over me. I stayed there a while longer then quietly walked back up the hill and returned back to the stables. Later I found out at that he had died at that time I was in the field with his daughters. Strange as it may seem I believe that at the moment his soul left his body he reached out to connect with me in some way to comfort me and let me know that he is in a safe place,that he knew I loved him and not to worry that someday we will be reunited. I think that this is also what the person was trying to tell me Freebird and if I want to find peace is something I can't help but believe in.
      I apologise if this is long I guess because of what has happened just hits close to home.

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      • #43
        <BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted bt deltawave:
        So although I *believe* that animals may have souls and that humans probably do, I certainly do not *know*. </div></BLOCKQUOTE>
        That's kind of how I look at it, too. But, I guess thing about faith is that it doesn't or isn't supposed to require rational thought or proof.

        And because I'm a nerd and I like to know these things (definitions), I looked up soul in my computer's dictionary and this is the first definition it gives: the spiritual or immaterial part of a human being or animal, regarded as immortal. Not that it adds anything to the discussion.

        <BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by Rt66Kix:
        It also says in the Bible that God cares about the "sparrow that falls." </div></BLOCKQUOTE>
        As Shakespeare put it, "There is special providence in the fall of a sparrow."
        Mal: Well, you were right about this being a bad idea.
        Zoe: Thanks for saying, sir. - Firefly: Serenity

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        • #44
          <BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content"> Spotted Mustang, this is so beautifully put. And you won't be walking alone on that little journey, because I'll be doing the exact same thing. My animals are part of my family, and if I can't be reunited with my family, the afterlife just isn't for me.
          </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

          Shucks, 17handTB, how sweet of you to offer yourself as a travel companion
          I was, however, speaking somewhat hypothetically. I don't really believe there's a heaven or a pearly gate, but I've been wrong before and I'll allow for the possibility of being pleasantly surprised

          I just remember when I was about 12, a sunday school pastor explained to us that no, animals don't go to heaven like people do. I remember yelling across the room, "Then I'm not going either, dammit." And I'll never change my mind about that one

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          • #45
            ASBStars-

            Are you referring to Dominion Theology and it's teachings (this *other* group?)

            For anyone not familiar, just do a Google search on those terms (Dominion Theology/Dominion Teachings).

            As for this other group, if they're supportive of this type of following, it's understandable with the line of thought, supremacy over living creatures (horses for this discussion).

            You'll also find alot of controversy over this belief.

            As for me, I am a firm *believer* that all living creatures do have souls. They possess a heart, brain and a rudimentary thought process (although some may be more 'intelligent' than others). And as someone pointed out, this is a belief (possessing a soul) as to know as fact would mean death would have occurred. For those that believe, we'll only know for sure when we die (afterlife).

            It's amazing that this topic has come up at this time, as just yesterday while driving my elderly (81) father-in-law to a store, he was remembering his time as a youth (amazing memory!). As he rambled on, I looked over at him, and at that very moment I asked myself a question. The question stuck in my mind until I arrived home, and then I took my hub to the side to quietly discuss this question.

            I was curious to know- we, as humans are born, we're nutured and educated. From adolescent age we progress to selecting a mate (marriage), procreate (bear children) and then age (now I realize not everyone follows this exact path when it comes to marriage/procreation). In the animal kingdom, it's similar.

            But I wondered, as my aged father-in-law sat recounting his memories of youth, just what exactly is the purpose of life? And I don't mean just for us as humans, but also for animals?

            Certainly, there are individuals that have changed and made an impact on how we, as a society live. Regardless of any impact, there's still the end conclusion - the one reality that may come at any age, death.

            Personally, I have always tried to be non-judgemental, there's never really anyway we can know what is happening to another as we cannot walk in their shoes. If I have the ability to help another, I will. I am compassionate to animals as I view them 'voiceless'. If I were to assess my own purpose in life, what brings me most enjoyment (naturally, other than my children/human acts of kindness), I'd have to say it's knowing that I have done what I can to bring safety to a horse.

            I'm curious to hear what others may comment.

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            • #46
              If you have read The Lovely Bones (or MY Lovely Bones), you'll know that there's a very pleasant description of Heaven contained therein.

              I would like to go to a Heaven like that.

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              • #47
                I have no way of knowing 100% that we have soul nor do I have any evidences indicating that we do have soul. However, I take on the faith from Jesus' teaching that we all ( assuming that every living thing on Earth - horses, of course!) will be with him. BTW, Bible was written by many men who have their own ulterior motive for writing this way and that way. The desire to dominate over everything. Thus, I discount everything except what Jesus said. My horses will be there waiting for me when I join them.
                Will get a dream horse!
                More riding, swimming, and rowing, less posting

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                • #48
                  I just want to say this is a great thread! Almost as good as my Chicken Soup for Horse Lovers or People or whatever it is, book.

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                  • #49
                    I like the Buddhist approach personally. Maybe its slightly masochistic of me, but I'd like to come back as a horse just to see what dressage is like from the other side.
                    -Good morning! How much does that weigh?

                    -Ham!

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                    • #50
                      When I was little, my mom read me a book about heaven after her friend's baby died. I was really little. The book said that heaven was full of white horses with golden hooves. I was so upset! I was worried about it for the longest time. What about all the other horses? And what about the dogs and cats? I would think of how awful it would be to be in heaven and not have any animals. Where would they go? Why wouldn't they be allowed in Heaven? What if they weren't white? I guess I kind of missed the point of the book. But when I finally asked my mom she reassured me and told me that ALL animals go to heaven. Of course she was trying to make me feel better, but I worried about that for the longest time (I was a worrier when I was little). And I DO believe I will see them all again.
                      http://burpclothsandsaddlepads.blogspot.com/

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                      • #51
                        <BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">After 30 years of hard core debate, not one religious person has yet to tweak my ear or prick my attention. </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

                        And I wouldn't imagine there ever WILL be a PERSON who could ever change your mind, because really, this is something only the Holy Spirit can do.

                        For anyone who is interested in learning more about the subject matter of this thread, in a non judgmental, non Denominational environment, I encourage you to join us on our Message Board: C.R.O.S.S. - Christian Rider's Online Spiritual Sanctuary Anyone and everyone is welcome. So, far all of the 22 members are also fellow COTHer's, so we are all just "family"
                        The Equine Wellness and Nutrition FB Group - Come join us!!
                        https://www.facebook.com/groups/equinewellness/

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                        • #52
                          Well since not everyone is Christian and even within Christianity there are differences in regards to matters like this..I'll go with they have souls...any living creature as sefless as a horse... as any animal that puts up with human beings crap is defintely blessed.
                          "All life is precious"
                          Sophie Scholl

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                          • #53
                            God made us all from the same stuff - of course we ALL have souls..... Anyone who thinks differently in this matter I think has superiority feelings.
                            Remember the stallion Cloud? He had stolen a pregnant mare from another stallion. When it came time to give birth the mare disappeared as they usually do, but she never returned, as they normally do. Instead she had walked the extra distance to again join up with the stallion she had been taken from and who was the father of her foal....now would a soul-less creature do something like this? I doubt that very much!

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                            • #54
                              As horrible as people are to each other and the sad depressing state of the world with wars, poverty, famine, disease....that people have brought to "Eden"...the animals have shown how to live within natures beauty..not destroy it...and domesticated animals, like pets have shown forgiveness,unconditional love and compassion far beyond what a majority of human beings would ever be capable of understanding much less doing.

                              I am not knocking the human race or religion...but to say something is souless? I think we should take a look at the evils in this world first and who and what is responsible...surely those are souless creatures.
                              "All life is precious"
                              Sophie Scholl

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                              • #55
                                Yes, I believe animals have souls. I, too, have debated my pastor about this topic, and I just cannot think that God does not care for His animals and His people.

                                Some random thought, beliefs of mine...

                                I think that if an animal plays an important part in your life, when you die, that animal will join you in Heaven..sort of the Rainbow Bridge theory, I guess. For example, some people do not care a bit about animals, never had one (dog, cat, horse,etc.) and it would not be important for their happiness in Heaven. For me, however, I cannot imagine Heaven without my dogs, horse, etc. that have passed on before me. I believe when I enter Heaven, after being greeted by Jesus, my dogs, horse will be running up behind Him to welcome me Home.

                                Biblically, I think God proves that He cares for his creatures. He created them first, they were the first to see Jesus after He was born, He states that He knows EVERY sparrow that falls, Jesus rode a donkey when He made his triumphant entrance into Jerusalem, a donkey carefully carried a pregnant Mary to the stable where He was born and placed in an animal's feeding trough, and the biggie to me, is that they were ALL saved from the flood, while only a few humans were passengers on the Ark.

                                God just mentions His animals and notes His concern about them way too much throughout the Bible for me to believe that they don't make it to Heaven.

                                The scripture that sealed the deal for me is Psalms 36:6 (NIV) "Your righteousness is like the mighty moutains, your justice like the great deep. O Lord, you preserve both man and beast."

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                                • #56
                                  Amen!

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                                  • #57
                                    <BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by Two Simple:
                                    The belief in a god and a heaven is so vitally important to people because they absolutely CANNOT and WILL NOT deal with the proposition of death. People are afraid to die. They are afraid to lose others that they love. </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

                                    Very true and it makes people afraid of life too - most people live in constant fear of one thing or another, never experiencing true happiness from within - how sad......

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                                    • #58
                                      My husband grew up as a nomad in Tibet. He says that in Tibet they have a saying: "mi, ta, kyi, sem chig" which translates into "Man (human), horse, dog, heart/mind One." The point of belief pretty clear and in line with what I think, too. Sometimes I wonder if all my animals over my whole life might have been the same soul incarnating into different bodies, just to geep me company!!

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                                      • #59
                                        <BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by Two Simple:
                                        The belief in a god and a heaven is so vitally important to people because they absolutely CANNOT and WILL NOT deal with the proposition of death. People are afraid to die. They are afraid to lose others that they love. If they can somehow cling to the hope of living out eternity with the people and animals they love in some far away magical fairy land consisting of golden streets and waters of eternal life, they are greatly comforted. Humans just cannot deal with death. I counsel people almost daily who cannot cope with the idea of losing someone close to them. But if they can cling to the hope of eternal life and salvation, then the death is more bearable. The bible scripture - oh death where is thy sting? Oh grave, where is thy victory? comes to mind. These words were written by men as a COMFORT to ease the pain of death and the pain of losing a loved one to death. All holy texts were written by humans who needed something to desperately cling to and believe so the harsh facts of life could be smoothed and eased. </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

                                        Who the hell are you, exactly, to tell anyone here why they believe or don't believe in God or anything else, for that matter? I struggle with issues of faith despite being raised in a Christian household, but it chaps my ass to no end to hear people crap all over the beliefs of their fellow man (or woman).

                                        Tell you what, I won't try to convert YOU if you don't try to convert ME. 'Kay?

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                                        • #60
                                          Two Simple - WOW - I can't believe it. You sound EXACTLY like me. I completely agree with everything you said. I'm constantly having the same argument with my bible thumping sister in law. Its nice to finally hear someone that agrees with me!
                                          \"Throw your heart over the fence and your horse will follow\"

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