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"Due to no fault of his own" - if only

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    "Due to no fault of his own" - if only

    Found an ad for a horse I know of today. Says the horse is for sale "due to no fault of his own." He has been owned by a girl I barely know for just under two months. She just started trailering in for lessons with the trainer at my barn. Her third lesson yesterday horse up and bucks across the arena, throws her into the wall, turns and runs towards her and breaks her leg. He broke her leg by running over her.

    "Due to no fault of his own."

    This girl was terrified to ride him before he pulled this yesterday. I walked through the arena her first lesson to turn out my mare (have to go through arena, before anyone asks - weird set up, I know) and the girl was in tears because he twitched off a fly.

    At least the ad says he needs an experienced rider.

    But really. This sickens me. I had hoped that I would never meet someone who would willingly omit something so incredibly important from the sale ad. I bought my current jumper mare knowing she had a bolt and spook.

    So, realistically, is there anything I can (or should) do?

    #2
    I say probably not. Horses are misrepresented all the time. This rider seems to think (or suddenly wants to believe, for sale purposes) that the problem with the horse is her.

    Comment


      #3
      I recently worked with a young gelding who was sweet as pie outside his paddock, but had mega issues in the paddock. He struck out with his forelegs, then after hammering me in the ribs with a well-timed, unprovoked kick, starting swinging his hind toward anyone who came near him in the paddock. The last time I tried to get him out of the paddock, he actually charged at me a few steps. I cut my losses and told the owner to get a pro in to fix the issues.

      A month or so later, I see him advertised as a novice horse with no vices by a dealer who I know knows about his issues....

      Comment


        #4
        If the girl was that terrified and the horse that sensitive, it could be partially true. The rider may have realized she over-horsed herself and that is how she's telling it. I would hope she discloses to any potential buyers of the "explosiveness" that may or may not manifest with a new owner.

        Comment


          #5
          Originally posted by llamrei View Post
          Found an ad for a horse I know of today. Says the horse is for sale "due to no fault of his own." He has been owned by a girl I barely know for just under two months. She just started trailering in for lessons with the trainer at my barn. Her third lesson yesterday horse up and bucks across the arena, throws her into the wall, turns and runs towards her and breaks her leg. He broke her leg by running over her.

          "Due to no fault of his own."

          This girl was terrified to ride him before he pulled this yesterday. I walked through the arena her first lesson to turn out my mare (have to go through arena, before anyone asks - weird set up, I know) and the girl was in tears because he twitched off a fly.

          At least the ad says he needs an experienced rider.

          But really. This sickens me. I had hoped that I would never meet someone who would willingly omit something so incredibly important from the sale ad. I bought my current jumper mare knowing she had a bolt and spook.

          So, realistically, is there anything I can (or should) do?
          I dunno. While the information above should absolutely be disclosed to perspective buyers when contacted about the horse, I would not put that information in the written add.
          Auventera Two:Some women would eat their own offspring if they had some dipping sauce.
          Serious Leigh: it sounds like her drama llama should be an old schoolmaster by now.

          Comment


            #6
            I wouldn't put the story in the ad. But I also wouldn't say through no fault of his own.
            Time management tough for you? 42 great tips and support through this course!

            Comment


              #7
              Well, it's not really his fault that she's so terrified she cried when he twitched off a fly. Most sensitive horses will do very poorly with a terrified rider - just sounds like a bad fit. I would expect the buck. Not sure how to read your description of him charging her & running her over - if that was an intentional, aggressive, act then yes, that's bad.

              Comment


                #8
                Originally posted by RockinHorse View Post
                I dunno. While the information above should absolutely be disclosed to perspective buyers when contacted about the horse, I would not put that information in the written add.
                I tried to sell a horse once that had issues; I didn't disclose the specific issues in the ad, but noted that the horse required an experienced rider. And then when people called, I gave them the complete skinny.
                Chronicles of the $700 Pony
                The Further Adventures of the $700 Pony
                www.blithetraveler.com <-- My Blog

                Comment

                  Original Poster

                  #9
                  The reason why the girl was terrified of the horse was because he had thrown her off multiple times before they started coming to my barn for lessons.

                  Watching from the viewing area it looked bad. All they were doing was walking. Her whole lesson was on the lunge line walking with some trot. The coach had just taken her off of the line to walk by herself and the horse went up on all fours, bucked and then carried on. I have never seen a horse toss someone, turn around and then run them over. In my mind, it looked bad. Maybe something in the corner that he walked by for the past thirty minutes spooked him - I don't know.

                  My worry is that it is her other barn coach that placed the ad and there is bad blood between her and the coach at my barn. Three boarders up and left her place and moved to my barn and the girl that fell off was thinking of doing the same.

                  I sinceriously hope that it is disclosed. He could be a nice little horse with the right rider and proper training. And a whole vet workup to rule out everything.

                  Comment


                    #10
                    When I was trying to sell a gelding with a monstrous buck, I said in the ad that he bucked and that the only reason I was asking any money was for his own safety. I didn't want to get sued or get someone else killed by saying the sale was "no fault of his own".

                    It's honestly disgusting that this person would sell a horse like that without mentioning his issues. You don't have to put all of it in the ad. But say he needs a very experienced rider or a pro. Say he has some behavioral issues, and disclose what they are by private message to interested parties. Say something so no one comes to try the horse without any idea of how dangerous he can be.
                    “Riding a horse is not a gentle hobby, to be picked up and laid down like a game of solitaire.” -Ralph Waldo Emerson

                    Comment


                      #11
                      Just because the ad doesn't mention the issue doesn't mean they won't mention it when people call. An ad is designed to generate interest - others on this very board have highlighted that leaving details out is a good tactic provided you provide the details when people call.

                      Hard to tell about the horse - it could be that he has his timid rider pegged and is taking advantage of the situation. With the right rider he might be a saint. Or perhaps he is in pain and needs treatment. Or, he's a bugger.

                      Regardless, to the OP I don't think there is much you can do - and frankly, because you don't know the whole story with the sale you shouldn't really be attempting to do anything IMO.

                      If your coach is teaching the student and knows of the sale, then I would say that she has the opportunity to provide guidance in the situation.

                      Comment


                        #12
                        Don't you think the cast on the girl's leg that potential buyers will see when she shows them the horse will help?

                        Also, what does going "up on all fours" mean?
                        The armchair saddler
                        Politically Pro-Cat

                        Comment


                          #13
                          Well, technically it's NOT his fault that his owner is not experienced enough to handle him.

                          If the ad says he needs an experienced rider, and owner realizes that she isn't one, how is that the horse's fault? All horses can buck, any horse can be unpredictable. I wouldn't automatically assume the horse is evil. Their accident sounds awful, but who knows, maybe the trainer inadvertently shooed the horse back towards the fallen rider while trying to catch the horse. Maybe someone is feeding him 12 lbs of sweet feed that has made him insane. Maybe he used to have 24/7 turnout and now he doesn't. It's the rare case where the horse is truly a bad apple.
                          where are we going, and why am I in this hand basket?

                          Comment


                            #14
                            I agree that what has happened with the horse is not the stuff for ads. Just think if she had posted that the horse repeatedly flung her off and then deliberately ran over her and broke her leg. -- Probably not a lot of phone calls wanting to buy the horse.
                            This way, IF she discloses what happened, an experienced rider may take advantage of a firesale price and get a horse, far nicer than she could otherwise afford, that she can rehab.
                            Many horses will get their riders number and take advantage of it. Not saying that is the case with this horse ---- but there is still the possibility that a good rider can set him straight and go places with him (other than head first into the ground. )
                            "He lives in a cocoon of solipsism" https://www.chronofhorse.com/forum/c...lies/smile.gif

                            Comment


                              #15
                              I disagree strongly that it's somehow okay for the seller to put that phrase in the ad. From the story told here, it's quite obvious that the horse is for sale precisely and exactly because of his behavior with his current owner/rider.

                              It's true that this may be a wonderful horse for many people, but it's not true that he's being offered for sale "through no fault of his own" unless you want to make the narrow ethical case that a horse's reactive behavior is rarely if ever "his fault" - however, that's not how the majority of buyers and sellers interpret it, I don't think.

                              In my opinion it would be fine just to specify in the ad that he's best suited for an experienced rider, as then potential buyers can ask about it, and the seller can (I HOPE) disclose the scenario during followups to the ad.

                              I think if there's any way to encourage the seller to drop that phrase from the ad, it should be at least attempted since you know what you know.

                              Comment

                                Original Poster

                                #16
                                Thank you all for your responses. I think it was truly that phrase that was really bothering me. I do think that with the right rider he may very well become a nice horse (they never vet checked him before they bought him). He is also for sale for low four figures.

                                As for the "up on all fours" comment, I meant that he jumped straight up in the air with all four hooves off of the ground. Horrible wording on my part and I apologize, it made sense in my head when I wrote it.

                                And yes, he is for sale because he broke her leg, the grandfather of the girl who pays for the lessons told me personally that that is why. I'm good friends with the grandfather, no so much the girl.

                                Comment


                                  #17
                                  Originally posted by arapaloosa_lady View Post
                                  Well, it's not really his fault that she's so terrified she cried when he twitched off a fly. Most sensitive horses will do very poorly with a terrified rider - just sounds like a bad fit. I would expect the buck. Not sure how to read your description of him charging her & running her over - if that was an intentional, aggressive, act then yes, that's bad.
                                  Exactly... some horses get like this with a bad fit, nervous wreck rider, but with someone with some confidence they're absolutely fine. Others are just plain bad eggs. I would hope they disclose, either way, once someone is interested, though.
                                  "smile a lot can let us ride happy,it is good thing"

                                  My CANTER blog.

                                  Comment


                                    #18
                                    Originally posted by llamrei View Post
                                    I have never seen a horse toss someone, turn around and then run them over.
                                    I owned a horse that did this to someone and I even bought him AFTER he did this to them. The rider he did this to was an EXTREMELY capable rider (probably more so than me). For some reason, he was a bronc for 95% of the people that rode him. He wasn't for me, in fact, he and I got along fantastically and I even rode him around bareback with a rope around his neck. I was a teenager when I first started riding him (and he was a known bucker at the time) and I had that teenage sense of immortality/crazy but he and I worked well together.

                                    I realize this post was more about misrepresentation in a sales ad, but I guess all you can hope for is that the owner is transparent to prospective buyers about his past. I guess the point of my post is to confirm your earlier sentiment that there is the potential for him to be a great horse for someone. Some people and horses just don't get along and hopefully that's the case with this pair.
                                    "Be the change you want to see in the world."
                                    ~Mahatma Gandhi

                                    Comment


                                      #19
                                      Warning Sign: Seller shows up in hip to toe leg cast....

                                      Presumably it will be the coach who shows the horse to prospective buyers. It may not matter one whit what the owner would have to say. We all know that trainers can fabricate things all by themselves.

                                      Comment


                                        #20
                                        Knew one and bought another... that said... I wouldn't use the phrase 'due to no fault of his own'

                                        Though for one it was true. We bought a horse who broke his previous owners back. Well... he shied at a bird in an indoor, his owner fell off and landed wrong. Wasn't an issue for her or us, but it was disclosed.

                                        The other was a Quarter horse mare who was a true nut case. Didn't like any sort of work and had been through several owners. For each she'd work for a short while then just stop cooperating and escalating to trying to run you down in the field when you went to catch her.

                                        The owner was not in a position to just put her down which would really have been the best solution. She was going to sell her at auction without her papers, but ended up running into someone who wanted her. Total disclosure and stating not for children or for breeding. Unfortunately she did give him the papers and heard from several future owners - she never changed and no one put her down for years and years.

                                        Comment

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