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Update on Moose page 8 - Vet says Cushings :-(

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  • I'll be curious to hear what her blood sugar (glucose) is. In humans, roughly 70 - 140 is "normal" I'd have to guess similar numbers would be true in horses. Certainly, if the # is 300, I'll lay my bet on the diabetes diagnosis.

    Lethargy, extreme thirst, excessive peeing, rapid weight loss are all human symptoms.

    You can buy Ketostix at the drugstore - for testing urine for "spilled sugar" and ketones. Not as useful in treatment as blood tests, but if you can catch a little of her pee ite would be a quick easy check - if the strip turns promptly bright orange she's got ketones, which is a byproduct of metabolizing one's own body rather than carbohydrates.

    I've been diabetic 31 years, so am in my element here. Need to leave the computer now, but happy to answer any questions this evening if need be.

    Certainly in humans, dogs, and cats, diabetes is a mangeable disease. As chronic diseases go, I'd even say it's the one to pick, given a choice. What else makes a glass of chocolate milk or a bit of candy the absolutely medically appropriate treatment at times (when you're low sugar)
    http://wildwoodfarmnc.com

    http://cantersgutenberg.wordpress.co...g-quiet-goose/

    Comment


    • Freebird-

      Glad to know that the owner sent her to the clinic.

      I'll share my experience with the low red blood cell and high white cell count.

      Apparently, it's not unusual for older horses to have a low grade virus knocking around that will flare up from time to time. We found the virus in my old guy after we cleared up his anemia.

      The anemia symptoms were lack of coat loss, lethargy and weight loss. However, since he was an older guy with a lot of work years behind him, it was written off as such. We were actually looking for Cushings when it came to light that he had anemia. When I trace clipped him to give him relief, his color had turned orange from his normal strawberry roan as well.

      The high white blood cell count didn't come until a year later of still no normal coat loss in spring and intermittent diarrhea. That's when the low-grade virus was diagnosed. Two shots of EqStim later, he lost his coat normally, and the diarrhea finally stopped.

      It's been five years now, and he hasn't returned to his unhealthy state. Then again, he's under no stress whatsoever these days.

      Hope Moose comes out all right!

      Michele

      Comment


      • Glad to see things are working out for Moose and that you got a respite, Freebird!!!

        I meant to tell you that too many electrolytes are as bad as not getting enough of them!!! If you put electrolytes in a horse's water bucket you should also provide a bucket of plain water as well, so the animal can choose which one he/she wants...
        "Don't blame Hogg or the other teens. The adults are supposed to know better. If only we could find any." ~Tom Nichols, professor of national security affairs at the Naval War College~

        Comment

        • Original Poster

          Well, the vet just called again, and though she4 hasn't gone home yet to look at Moose - she is stuck in traffic right now - she was able to sit down and study the lab results, and on paper it looks like Cushing's Disease. As I said earlier, we had thought about this being a possibility, but assumed it must be something else because she just wasn't showing any of the classic Cushing/laminitis signs. She still wants to go home and run a few tests, but she said on paper, her results look just like a horse with Cushings. She also said that she thinks this is a chronic Cuching's case, and that maybe Moose has just had an acute flare up, from lack of treatment, and I have to agree on that. She probably had it back when our boss first bought her. Anyway, I haven't called the owner back, mainly because I am trying to decide on how to tell him. Does anyone know of any good websites that explains Cushing's in laymans terms? I know what it is, but I don't want to blow his mind with too much medicial terminology. Also, I am afraid that he won't want to pay for teh Pergolide treatment. My vet says she gets her Pergolide in a powder form from Nebraska, and that its $140 for 2 or so months. My vet seems to think that we can possibly get her through this acute stage, but that of course she would always need the Pergolide. I am afraid that our boss will just want to have her put down. After all we have went through, I woudl hate that, but I don't know what else I could do. I don't exactly have people at my doorstep begging for a 17 hand blind tenn. walker with Cushing's. Dang it, dang it, dang it.....

          ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
          Cautious Val

          Delightfully Irish
          ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
          The Equine Wellness and Nutrition FB Group - Come join us!!
          https://www.facebook.com/groups/equinewellness/

          Comment


          • Freebird - page Coreene - she's had quite a bit of experience with Cushings.

            Comment


            • I believe you can get compounded pergolide now. My vet had a cushings/EMS/laminitis seminar a few weeks ago and this was mentioned several times. Of course, you need to find a GOOD compounding pharmacy. Unf, I don't have my cushing's notes here to give you a laymans explanation. The easiest way to explain to non-horse people is to say "it's like diabetes."

              Can I show under an alter?
              ISO 5" 18mm hollow mouth full cheek snaffle!

              model citizen, zero discipline

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              • There's a thread in the reference section you might want to look over:
                http://chronicleforums.com/groupee/f...31&m=503602441

                If you must choose between two evils, choose the one that you've
                never tried before.
                If you must choose between two evils, choose the one that you've never tried before.

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                • Having had a Cushing's pony--if the owner isn't willing to medicate the horse then euthanasia would be the kindest thing for this horse, really...

                  Perhaps the owner would be willing to give Moose to someone who would see to it that she was properly medicated, if you could find someone to take her...

                  You can find support and information over at the Yahoo Equine Cushing's site... If you go to Google and type in "equine Cushing's syndrome" into the search bar (minus the parentheses) I'm sure you will get a ton of information... And don't forget to try The Horse Interactive, www.thehorse.com !!!

                  Some cases are more easily managed then others--it appears to be more crucial for Cushing's horses to have their diets analyzed and minerals balanced... This is something you can ask over at the Yahoo Cushing's board--there is a wealth of information there and the people are really supportive so do post there for help and empathy!!!

                  [This message was edited by Cherry on Apr. 09, 2004 at 03:23 PM.]
                  "Don't blame Hogg or the other teens. The adults are supposed to know better. If only we could find any." ~Tom Nichols, professor of national security affairs at the Naval War College~

                  Comment




                  • I got Pergolide suspension; have your vet call my vet's office and find out who their supplier is (I think they are in NC), the number is 714-777-3942.

                    When I read about the drinking and urination, I too feared it was Cushings. Willem's drinking/urnating when haywire at the same time the laminitis set in. It was BOOM-BOOM-BOOM, a new blast of hair as well.

                    Sadly, this is one of those examples where you can see that Cushings doesn't just rear its head through hair or feet problems.

                    I wish I had some of my Pergolide left, I would overnight it to you, but I gave it to a friend who came home from being with us when we put Willem to sleep to a message from the vet saying her horse had Cushings.

                    Check the Yahoo site, that's the best.

                    And loss of peripheral vision is also an early sign of Cushings.

                    I am so very, very, very sorry. It's no consolation to say I know what you are going through, but know that many of us have been in the same place and we are all here for you.

                    ____________________________
                    Don't nott to buy no ugly ass things for us to wear und then say it be a present for us, it don't nott to be, it be for you. - WILLEM

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                    • http://www.thehorse.com/viewarticle....field=cushings

                      Here is a link to a new article in The Horse. Over on the left note the links to other articles.

                      _\\]
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                      Comment


                      • just thinking good thoughts for Moose..
                        A Fine Romance. April 1991 - June 2016. Loved forever.

                        Comment


                        • Jingling for Moose in Va. Thank Heavens you got her a ride, even tho the guy was a total jerk. Just disregard him and keep foremost in mind that you're doing what needs to be done. Keep us updated. It sounds like she's a pretty tough girl, tho, so if anyone can pull through, it sounds like she will. Hang in.

                          Comment


                          • ***Jingles for Moose***

                            "God created woman to tame man." Voltaire

                            Comment

                            • Original Poster

                              Just another update (y'all getting sick of me yet??)

                              The vet left a message and said that Moose is doing pretty well this evening. She has already ate a flake of Alfalfa, and was working on some Equine Sr. when she had called. She also said that she hadn't drank a drop of water at her house, which I think is very odd. She is going to do a dex. suppression test to find out for sure if it is Cushing's or not, but she said that the mare acted much better - which I don't understand the quick turnaround, as the vet didn't really do anything, I don't think. She said that her heart rate was back to normal and she was doing ok. I know this sounds like good news, but if in fact she does have Cushing's, it won't really matter how she doing now, because the way I figure, feed plus medication is going to cost a LOT - I'm thinking $1000 a year, and they barely paid that when they bought her. Now I know, folks like us wouldn't think twice paying that for one of our beloved horses, but I can almost bet that when I tell my boss that their blind mare that they haven't ridden in two years has a chronic, costly to treat, eventually terminal disease, they will say to either put her down or find a home for her. If they actually paid us enough, I'd pay for the treatments out of my pocket, but with horses and ponies of our own, and our 2 year old we're lucky to break even every month. So, if Moose tests positive for Cushings our options will be A= put her down. B= find someway to get Pergolide either free or WAY cheap C= find someone to adopt her that will continue her treatments. Now, PLEASE do not think I am trying to beg for handouts here. I think you COTHer's are awesome, and yesterday when I was about to go crazy because I couldn't get a vet out, you all were there for me, giving your support, jingles and prayers for Moose, and I just can't begin to thank everyone enough. Well, thanks for letting me ramble on once again. If anyone has any thoughts, websites, etc. please either post here or email me.
                              Kat
                              pofarm@bellsouth.net

                              ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
                              Cautious Val

                              Delightfully Irish
                              ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
                              The Equine Wellness and Nutrition FB Group - Come join us!!
                              https://www.facebook.com/groups/equinewellness/

                              Comment


                              • freebird

                                is it possible to treat it with diet alone?

                                i know some folks have had good luck with non sugar feed---ie beet pulp, rinsed/low sugar hay etc---aero is cushingoid and i have changed his feed to no sugars/starches etc and use beet pulp etc and he has improved as far as water intake, wet stall etc

                                also depending on what exactly is going on with her insulin etc, i know some people are able to get Insulin restant horses back under control with cinnamon

                                diet is a HUGE issue with cushings-have you checked out the yahoo cushings board yet? great info!!!!!!!!

                                maybe she feels better because perhaps she was having an "episode" and it has now passed and the banamine etc made her comfortable enough to get up on her feet and eat, etc which in turn gave her strength and in turn feel better

                                there are lotsa options out there---and like i said diet plays a huge part-chech into it!

                                ******************************
                                molly
                                **proud member of the calendar- CBW FOR LIFE !!**
                                http://community.webshots.com/user/mavw1971
                                www.oasisequestrian.com
                                Co-founder of White Trash Dressage (WTD)
                                http://www.lulu.com/mavw1971
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                                Comment


                                • I, too, know cushings horses who were managed without the meds. One of tehm was diagnosed with Cushings years ago, and is still alive and kicking at 35 - still giving lessons! So, it's possible to manage them without the meds.

                                  ____________
                                  TGFPT Clique
                                  HYOOTGP


                                  Comment


                                  • How is Moose doing?

                                    Comment


                                    • Freebird - You have a PT.

                                      Comment


                                      • i managed my wonderful old hannoverian on cyproheptadine, and hormonize for five years before we put him to sleep at the age of 31. he never foundered, but got thin, and never regained much of his appetite...with vigilant care, cushing's is manageable, but vigilance is the key....we were very lucky that his feet were good...just the arthritis in his back end that got so bad...good luck to moose...
                                        www.judyreenesinger.com

                                        Comment


                                        • well, I don't have anything usful to offer, but just wanted to say I'm sorry. Its a tough spot to be in. At least you are trying to do what is best for the horse, although it sounds lke your options aren't the greatest.
                                          good luck.

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