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Tell me about HSUS and horse sports

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  • Tell me about HSUS and horse sports

    From everything I've always understood HSUS is an animal rights organization. What is their policy on horse sports? Were they the ones boycotting/rallying against eventing too or was it just PETA?
    Grab mane and kick on!
  • Original Poster

    #2
    Anybody? I couldn't find much on this during a quick search last night.
    Grab mane and kick on!

    Comment


    • #3
      You won't see much direct evidence of anything. But rest assured they're there.

      PETA like to run around naked and shout "Murderer" all the time and collect money. They target youth.

      HSUS is PETA in a Brooks Brothers suit. They have a more palatable image - which is very carefully cultivated and marketed.

      They sent "observers" to the Olympics to make sure no horses were abused.

      They love to come in on high profile sexy issues. They sweep in and conduct a few press conferences, some interviews, and then sweep back out - counting the money they made and leaving a mess behind for real animal welfare advocates to clean up. Don't get me started on Katrina.

      There, I've said it. If you're interested in donating money for animal welfare I'd suggest maybe the ASPCA... they're a bit more moderate.
      Brothers and sisters, I bid you beware
      Of giving your heart to a dog to tear.
      -Rudyard Kipling

      Comment


      • #4
        Don't let HSUS fool you. They are just as whacko as PETA but they hide it better.
        In all fairness, they have provided me with quite a bit of training in Animal Investigations, and they also paid the shelter costs, and helped with the Michael Vick investigation. They will send a raid team anywhere in the country at the drop of a hat to help with big investigations like that, puppy mills, hoarders, horse farms whatever, all you have to do is ask in an official capacity (police or something like that). But they are still very radical and have a very radical agenda that they try to hide.
        I as well only donate to my local area humane society. I prefer to keep my money local, that way I know where it goes.

        www.mfha.org has some good links to some of what HSUS tries to hide.
        "Perhaps the final test of anybody's love of dogs is their willingness to permit them to make a camping ground of the bed" -Henry T. Merwin

        Comment


        • #5
          Jaeger -

          That's very interesting. My step sister is a VA state trooper and was active in the Vick investigation. Her experience is much different than yours. Isn't that interesting?

          Then there's the case.... I think in LA... where HSUS obtained a helicopter from Homeland Security and conducted a "raid", seizing a whole bunch of pit bulls.

          Unfortunately every single animal was put down immediately - including puppies.

          Even more unfortunate was that the defendant was... geez.... I don't remember. Either acquitted or charges were dropped due to lack of evidence. But all his dogs are dead.

          HSUS disappeared after the raid - did not assist with the dogs or cared what happened to them. I think they did get plenty of photos of their staff in the helicopter though.
          Brothers and sisters, I bid you beware
          Of giving your heart to a dog to tear.
          -Rudyard Kipling

          Comment


          • #6
            Don't get me wrong JSwan , I'm not defending them, but I can give them credit where credit is due.
            They did front the majority of the costs for the care of those dogs while they were being held at various locations and also while they were being fostered. And they have helped me a great deal with many of my investigations, by sending raid teams and investigators to help us collect evidence and document things and to confiscate and house all the dogs since our shelter did not have enough room.

            I am also aware of what happened at Katrina and the many other times they have shown their true colors. I am well aware that they are a wolf in sheeps clothing.

            I think HSUS and PETA are the devil incarnate and would never give them one red cent. I wouldn't piss on Wayne Pacelle if he were on fire.

            But I also have no problem using what they offer if it will benefit me while I am conducting an investigation and trying to make a difference for animals in my town. They provided me with a lot of free training that greatly helped my credibility and clout with the local state attorney's office and also within my own dept while I was trying to start our animal investigations unit, all of which have allowed me to help and save an untold number of animals.
            "Perhaps the final test of anybody's love of dogs is their willingness to permit them to make a camping ground of the bed" -Henry T. Merwin

            Comment


            • #7
              No worries - I didn't think you were (not that you need my permission or approval!)

              I was just thinking that her experience was much different. Of course, that investigation was pretty high profile in terms of publicity - maybe that's why.

              Years ago I volunteered for a wildlife rehab hotline. I didn't rehab any animals - just manned the hotline and helped people deal with problem/injured wildlife through referrals or matching them to the right rehabber. Also answered a lot of questions. Our "bible" was a book published by HSUS on dealing with wildlife. There was nothing unique about the book in terms of new or update information, but it was nice to have information on so many species in one place.

              They do have some good publications. Hopefully your jurisdiction isn't interested in turning over law enforcement or investigative authority to volunteer groups working with HSUS.

              Some of the laws that have been passed, and the contracting/privatization of government responsibilities has just been plain scary.

              Good luck with your work!



              Originally posted by Jaegermonster View Post
              Don't get me wrong JSwan , I'm not defending them, but I can give them credit where credit is due.
              Brothers and sisters, I bid you beware
              Of giving your heart to a dog to tear.
              -Rudyard Kipling

              Comment

              • Original Poster

                #8
                I'm not thinking about contributing to them, in fact I despise them as much as I do PETA. It's just very difficult to find evidence to convince others how evil they are because of the "good" they seem to do.
                I was discussing PETA on another forum and was slammed for dissing HSUS, and when I went to defend what I had said couldn't find the website where I had gotten the information. There's been a lot of discussion on FOL in the past, but again, hard to find the info to back up what I've said!
                I also keep my money local, and have even returned letters from HSUS begging for money saying I would never contribute to them with "misnomer" written on the envelope. Humane Society my butt!
                Grab mane and kick on!

                Comment


                • #9
                  HSUS member here. I did some research on their website and...

                  The only horse sport I see them publicly coming out against are rodeo sports. Not barrel racing, but bronc busting, etc. Unlike PETA (this is for you JSwan and Jaegermonster), they don't comdemn horse racing, and in fact have worked with officials in the horse racing and eventing industries to try to make the sports safer. I don't think it's fair to lump the names of HSUS and PETA together like this. For that matter, what do you all think about AWI (Animal Welfare Institute)? American Humane? Or do we just want to pick on the big orgs?

                  I think that HSUS shares the same sentiment of a lot of us here, including myself - that many equine "sports" can be dangerous, but if precautions are taken to make them safer for the horses and humans involved, that is always a good thing. Driving my car can be dangerous, but that doesn't mean I'm living my life in a hole and never going anywhere. I put on my seat belt and drive (um relatively!) safely.

                  I'm a hunter princess myself, but I've heard really promising things about frangible pins and other eventing advances. I love watching horse racing, and I'm glad that the industry is willing to work with animal welfare orgs to make the sport safer - I'd hate to cut my ties but will if they don't make some serious changes soon. But I'm not protesting at races like PETA or publicly harassing Gabriel Saez (jockey for Eight Belles) b/c I don't think he didn't anything wrong. I recognize that using a crop is part of horse racing. I think there are good people in the sport, and there are bad. You can say that about pleasure riding too.

                  I've also heard HSUS come out against the Omak Suicide race (google it) and I believe that although it's not one of their main campaigns, that they oppose using carriage horses for tourist activities in big cities.

                  As far as PETA, I don't know if they are against any specific sports, but I believe they don't like racing and are also opposed to rodeos.

                  Comment


                  • #10
                    Originally posted by Jaegermonster View Post
                    Don't let HSUS fool you. They are just as whacko as PETA but they hide it better.
                    In all fairness, they have provided me with quite a bit of training in Animal Investigations, and they also paid the shelter costs, and helped with the Michael Vick investigation. They will send a raid team anywhere in the country at the drop of a hat to help with big investigations like that, puppy mills, hoarders, horse farms whatever, all you have to do is ask in an official capacity (police or something like that). But they are still very radical and have a very radical agenda that they try to hide.
                    I as well only donate to my local area humane society. I prefer to keep my money local, that way I know where it goes.

                    www.mfha.org has some good links to some of what HSUS tries to hide.
                    I got a very bad taste in my mouth from them last year. There were a group of horses in Texas who needed to get into a rescue. The owners were older, their fences were bad, horses kept getting out and getting killed on the road. Owners agreed to surrender the horses but there were a bunch and many had not ever been handled. We (BEHS) were the first rescue on the scene but another rescue ended up being in charge (because that was the org. the county always worked with). We were prepared to take most of the horses if needed and ended up with a bunch.

                    BUT while we were working on this, I got a snotty message from the HSUS. They were criticizing the rescues in Texas for not stepping up and taking these horses in and chastising us all. NOW we WERE taking the horses in and the HSUS weren't helping one dang bit. But they sure felt comfortable criticising others. I didn't appreciate it...

                    I've been involved in a lot of seizures and a lot of neglect cases, and not once has HSUS been any help.

                    I did have one seizure that PETA got a hold of. We already had the animals, but they did a press release, sent it all over the world, made it look like they were involved and probably got $$ because of it. Did they contribute a dime to help the horses? Nope. In fact, all they did was make the county mad. Nice work.
                    Visit us at Bluebonnet Equine Humane Society - www.bluebonnetequine.org

                    Want to get involved in rescue or start your own? Check out How to Start a Horse Rescue - www.howtostartarescue.com

                    Comment


                    • #11
                      Originally posted by horsecrazy View Post
                      HSUS member here. I did some research on their website and...

                      The only horse sport I see them publicly coming out against are rodeo sports. Not barrel racing, but bronc busting, etc. Unlike PETA (this is for you JSwan and Jaegermonster), they don't comdemn horse racing, and in fact have worked with officials in the horse racing and eventing industries to try to make the sports safer. I don't think it's fair to lump the names of HSUS and PETA together like this. For that matter, what do you all think about AWI (Animal Welfare Institute)? American Humane? Or do we just want to pick on the big orgs?

                      I think that HSUS shares the same sentiment of a lot of us here, including myself - that many equine "sports" can be dangerous, but if precautions are taken to make them safer for the horses and humans involved, that is always a good thing. Driving my car can be dangerous, but that doesn't mean I'm living my life in a hole and never going anywhere. I put on my seat belt and drive (um relatively!) safely.

                      I'm a hunter princess myself, but I've heard really promising things about frangible pins and other eventing advances. I love watching horse racing, and I'm glad that the industry is willing to work with animal welfare orgs to make the sport safer - I'd hate to cut my ties but will if they don't make some serious changes soon. But I'm not protesting at races like PETA or publicly harassing Gabriel Saez (jockey for Eight Belles) b/c I don't think he didn't anything wrong. I recognize that using a crop is part of horse racing. I think there are good people in the sport, and there are bad. You can say that about pleasure riding too.

                      I've also heard HSUS come out against the Omak Suicide race (google it) and I believe that although it's not one of their main campaigns, that they oppose using carriage horses for tourist activities in big cities.

                      As far as PETA, I don't know if they are against any specific sports, but I believe they don't like racing and are also opposed to rodeos.
                      Of course research on their website is going to make them look good. Duh.
                      HSUS is notorious for coming out on hotbutton issues that are very much in the public eye (like the suicide race) which is great. It's their day to day and behind the scenes stuff that is kind of scary.

                      And JSwan, I know there were a lot of problems with the Michael Vick case on the local and state level due to the good ol boy syndrome, it was once the feds stepped in that things started to happen. So not knowing which tier your sister in law was involved in, I know you said she was state, it's hard to say. But at least that POS got busted, they took the dogs, and that case alone did so much for the fight against dogfighting than all the years of hard work.

                      As far as jurisdiction, I'm pretty much it in my area as far as the animals. Our local Humane Society has a civilian investigator but they really have no investigative powers and no arrest authority etc. She gets with me and I run with it. Once I get it I keep it and make the arrests etc. I have no problem with taking what these agencies (HSUS, etc) will give me but I'm not giving it up to them.
                      My bottom line is the animals so if I have to deal with the devil sometimes to get it done, fine, but I still think they suck.

                      again, for some of the rest of you, rwww.mfha.org has some great links to stuff about PETA and HSUS that those agencies don't want you to see. check it out
                      "Perhaps the final test of anybody's love of dogs is their willingness to permit them to make a camping ground of the bed" -Henry T. Merwin

                      Comment


                      • #12
                        Originally posted by horsecrazy View Post
                        HSUS member here. I did some research on their website and...
                        You know HSUS through their website.

                        I know HSUS from direct interaction with them, and being on the receiving end of their "campaigns".

                        What an organization says it is doing and what it actually does are two separate things. HSUS has great marketing people.

                        They're great at getting press attention. They find a high profile issue and then get the press, issue press releases, and then leave without having helped a single animal - or given help to the people left behind to care for the animals.

                        Even state animal rights groups have been displeased when HSUS has stepped in to "help". The local group thinks HSUS is going to stay around or assist in some fashion.. but nope. After the votes are counted and the cameras are gone.... so is HSUS. A lot richer.

                        Think what you want. I used to be a member too. Now - no way in hell. I've seen them in action and it's appalling.


                        Jaegermonster - you seem to know a lot about the Vick case so you know the county is a bit of a mess. My step sister was one of the troopers brought in from other areas to assist in the investigation. She also no longer donates to HSUS. After Katrina, my mother also stopped donating to HSUS (she participated in dog rescues). She never believed what I told her about HSUS until she saw it for herself.

                        I don't think HSUS misses our support one bit, since they seem to have more money than the federal government. It's a giant marketing self perpetuating moneymaking machine. An animal rights Enron. There's no substance to it. Not anymore...
                        Brothers and sisters, I bid you beware
                        Of giving your heart to a dog to tear.
                        -Rudyard Kipling

                        Comment


                        • #13
                          I do know quite a bit about that case, through various sources and means. One of the folks that Vick was affiliated with and dealing dogs with is in my area and is someone I was investigating at that time. He has since been arrested and we got 114 dogs out of his yard.

                          but anyway, HSUS gets a ton of $$ from people who see the cute mailings with puppies and kitties and they think that HSUS is somehow affiliated with their local humane society, which couldn't be further from the truth.
                          HSUS runs no shelters, no kennels, no rescues. They will, however, jump right in for the photo op, and throw money at a case in the public eye, like housing Michael Vicks' dogs.

                          They are primarily a lobbying group and their agenda is way out there and very radical. I remember a few years ago when they got a bunch of dogs from a rescue/shelter somewehre on the east coast that they were going to "place" but instead they EU'd all of them in the van as they were driving away and were seen by citizens dumping the bodies in a dumpster.


                          HSUS is really something else.

                          I think the ASPCA is a reputable organization and they do the right thing. But it amazes me how many people don't realize they are not in every community. We don't have a shelter or even a chapter of the ASPCA in our area and we are a major metropolitan city. We are fortunate enough to have a good humane society and good city run Animal Control but it would be great to have the ASPCA too. Sometimes i feel like a hamster on a wheel trying to do animal work, but every once in a while I get to make a difference.


                          It cracks me up when someone says they are a "member" of the HSUS. yeah, I sent my $25 to the USET last year, I'm a member. Whoohoo.
                          "Perhaps the final test of anybody's love of dogs is their willingness to permit them to make a camping ground of the bed" -Henry T. Merwin

                          Comment


                          • #14
                            Originally posted by JSwan View Post
                            You know HSUS through their website.

                            I know HSUS from direct interaction with them, and being on the receiving end of their "campaigns".
                            1. Don't assume. Your first statement is actually laughable to me. I've worked with HSUS in a professional sense (I work in the horse welfare industry), I know (as in first name basis) and respect a lot of people there. I referred to their website because the OP had a question about which horse sports HSUS frowned upon, and their website provided that info that I didn't know offhand. As a reminder, THAT was the original topic, though as usual you've turned it into a bashing.

                            2. So what type of "interaction" have you had with them? Since I apparently only know what I know about HSUS through the internet maybe you can elaborate on your direction interaction and just why you hate dealing with them so much?

                            Originally posted by Jaegermonster View Post
                            HSUS runs no shelters, no kennels, no rescues.
                            Again, might want to do some research here - in particular try looking up the Black Beauty Sanctuary and the Duchess Sanctuary - both developed by HSUS.

                            Jaeger, I admire your work with Vick's dogs, but really with the low blow b/c I said I'm an HSUS member? Really? You don't know how much I contribute, and even more important, the animal activist work I do or other ways I support HSUS or any organization. That was really unnecessary.

                            Comment


                            • #15
                              Originally posted by eventamy View Post
                              in fact I despise them as much as I do PETA. It's just very difficult to find evidence to convince others how evil they are because of the "good" they seem to do.
                              I would need some really incredible evidence to use words like 'despise' and 'evil' to describe the HSUS. There are crazies in lots of groups. I haven't heard anything about the HSUS that makes me think it is particularly overrun with them. Of course, if the evidence exists, I would certainly look at it. Does anyone have specific examples of systemic problems with the HSUS? I ask honestly, and in the spirit of information sharing, not argument.

                              My experience is that anytime children or animals are involved, a fair percentage of people become fanatical. But I think that the majority of people who join groups like HSUS have their hearts in the right place. And, as has been said already, the HSUS works to keep horse sports safe, not to shut them down.

                              Comment


                              • #16
                                Originally posted by horsecrazy View Post
                                HSUS member here. I did some research on their website and...

                                The only horse sport I see them publicly coming out against are rodeo sports. Not barrel racing, but bronc busting, etc. Unlike PETA (this is for you JSwan and Jaegermonster), they don't comdemn horse racing, and in fact have worked with officials in the horse racing and eventing industries to try to make the sports safer. I don't think it's fair to lump the names of HSUS and PETA together like this. For that matter, what do you all think about AWI (Animal Welfare Institute)? American Humane? Or do we just want to pick on the big orgs?

                                I think that HSUS shares the same sentiment of a lot of us here, including myself - that many equine "sports" can be dangerous, but if precautions are taken to make them safer for the horses and humans involved, that is always a good thing. Driving my car can be dangerous, but that doesn't mean I'm living my life in a hole and never going anywhere. I put on my seat belt and drive (um relatively!) safely.

                                I'm a hunter princess myself, but I've heard really promising things about frangible pins and other eventing advances. I love watching horse racing, and I'm glad that the industry is willing to work with animal welfare orgs to make the sport safer - I'd hate to cut my ties but will if they don't make some serious changes soon. But I'm not protesting at races like PETA or publicly harassing Gabriel Saez (jockey for Eight Belles) b/c I don't think he didn't anything wrong. I recognize that using a crop is part of horse racing. I think there are good people in the sport, and there are bad. You can say that about pleasure riding too.

                                I've also heard HSUS come out against the Omak Suicide race (google it) and I believe that although it's not one of their main campaigns, that they oppose using carriage horses for tourist activities in big cities.

                                As far as PETA, I don't know if they are against any specific sports, but I believe they don't like racing and are also opposed to rodeos.
                                You are a HSUS member and think they are there to help animals, when the stated goal of their president, by his own words in interviews, is "to end all use of animals by humans and not soon enough for him?"

                                If you have horses, or an interest on them, as I assume being a poster here, I would think the HSUS or any of those non-profits that are working against us having and using animals would definitely not be who to support.

                                Of course they won't want to publish that in their sites, all they want is for people to feel fuzzy about "helping poor abused animals".
                                The animals are their prop to get money, their cause of the moment to rally donations for.

                                Here is more about who those groups are, you can read about the HSUS and if you want to, about others in this site and learn who they really are:

                                http://www.activistcash.com/organiza...ew.cfm/oid/136

                                Once you know more about them, you may still decide to support them and that is fine.
                                Many people don't really know who they really are to make an informed decision if to support them, based only on the general, current information out there, where they present themselves as animal welfare only.

                                We have many animal welfare laws, we are adding more every day and better education and enforcement.

                                Anyone that supports those groups and wants to keep their right to keep animals is doing so at their very real risk to loosing that right, when they support animal rights groups.

                                Comment

                                • Original Poster

                                  #17
                                  Does anyone have a link to the interviews the president has given?
                                  Grab mane and kick on!

                                  Comment


                                  • #18
                                    please - if you think HSUS is a fine organization, dig a little deeper.
                                    www.humanewatch.org/

                                    Comment


                                    • #19
                                      Originally posted by eventamy View Post
                                      Does anyone have a link to the interviews the president has given?
                                      Gotta go, but yes, they are several quoted with references out there, you can just google them.

                                      Comment


                                      • #20
                                        the big concern so far that I have seen re Obama is the appointment of Cass Sunstein. see http://www.consumerfreedom.com/news_.../headline/3807

                                        Great. Animal Rights agenda brought in to head Office of Information and Regulatory Affairs (OIRA). here we go!

                                        Lots of folks on Foxhunters on-line were against Obama. they were particularly appalled at his support for HSUS. I stuck up for him, thinking he just needed more education on the org and the subject. I mean, I gave them $ too, thinking it went to shelters, until I researched it. And, I thought that it was ridiculous to vote for president based on preserving foxhunting. Now, there is not alot that I would give up hunting for, but Obama vs that other guy...no brainer!

                                        But I digress. I have to say, I am pretty worried. “[T]here should be extensive regulation of the use of animals in entertainment, scientific experiments, and agriculture,” Sunstein wrote in a 2002 working paper while at the University of Chicago Law school.

                                        also... Sunstein delivered a keynote speech at Harvard University’s 2007 “Facing Animals” conference. ..Consider this tidbit:
                                        “We ought to ban hunting, I suggest, if there isn’t a purpose other than sport and fun. That should be against the law. It’s time now.”

                                        He concluded his Harvard speech by expressing his “more ambitious animating concern” that the current treatment of livestock and other animals should be considered “a form of unconscionable barbarity not the same as, but in many ways morally akin to, slavery and mass extermination of human beings.” straight out of the PETA playbook.

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