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When trainers at a show get rewarded for being sore losers/poor sports.... SMH

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  • #61
    I think mules should be allowed to show at horse shows. I've never really understood the no mules rule at H/J shows. Compared to the hullabaloo at most H/J shows (as Arlosmine listed) a mule would be nothing. Currently, there are 3 mules living 30 feet from my house and I've heard them whinbray (yeah..they really don't "heehaw" like cartoons or the occasional donkey might) about once.

    And...most equitation classes are judged to a degree on the horse, or in this case, a mule. So clearly he was a smooth, quiet, polite ride.

    And yes, if the biggest Oregon dressage show welcomes them and cheers when they win, then gosh a schooling show should be grateful for a paying competitor.

    http://www.chronofhorse.com/article/...-new-direction
    Proud member of the "Don't rush to kill wildlife" clique!

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    • #62
      I just don't understand that, how crazy! There was a mule stalled down the way from my horse at the RMHA International at the KY Horse Park and it did bray. And guess what... No horse freaked out! Personally, I like to expose my horse to different things. If she's scared of it, that means I have something new to work on.

      The farm answer is more shocking than anything. While I'm sure they are getting a lot of flack for their initial poor decision, they could at least do some damage control by telling the people they appreciate their opinion and they are investigating or something like that. Craziness.

      The mule is cute though!
      Adventures of the nontraditional Rocky in Dressage...
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      • #63
        Actually the show organizers CAN call on USEF as a governing body, only they are responsible for the enforcement of the rules, and not USEF. It's just drawing the rules from another place, and slapping them down as your own (which is convenient, as you don't have to rewrite the whole darned thing). The whole thing is, you have to know the rules, be consistent, and enforce them kindly and fairly. No different than if your show series has their own rules. You just choose what set to use at the beginning, and stick to it.

        I think the big mistake was if they were going by USEF rules, when someone asked initially if they could show the mule, the show secretary should have looked it up and made a determination by the rules. You have to have them in place in the show bill, and stick to them. The issue here is uneven enforcement of the rules. You can't cherry pick or come back in later and say "oh, we are going by USEF rules," they have to be established from the beginning. THAT is gross unfairness and will result in a lot of complaints.

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        • #64
          I don't understand the pushback against mules showing alongside horses. It's not like a mule is some random equid showing up to the wrong party... they are half horse, for crying out loud.


          At my first ever dressage show, I had another competitor approach me, trying to get me to remove my horse from the warmup area because their horse was "afraid of ponies". My horse is a 15hh sporthorse, just politely waiting for our class.

          Bullying other competitors seems to be a tried & true method for subpar trainers and riders to attempt a leg up on the competition. Doesn't mean we need to cave to them.

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          • #65
            I think it really is as simple as 'it's a horse show and a mule is not a horse or pony.'

            A friend has one, I think he is the cutest thing, have no problems with schooling shows, etc but at a recognized, rated horse show, it's a show where horses compete against horses and the rules state as much.

            As for this particular show, I'm not sure what dog the OP has in this fight beyond being a self-righteous mule owner, but I think it is pretty distasteful for people who are not involved in the situation beyond reading about it on facebook to be harassing the farm directly. If it does not impact you, why are you getting involved?

            JenM, are you planning to make the trip from california to texas solely to make a point? Snicklefritz, are you planning to buy a mule to compete at THIS show?

            If not, maybe get a hobby and let the farm and the affected customer work this out amongst themselves. I don't thing teaching children that getting a bunch of strangers to gang up on someone you don't like is an appropriate lesson.
            Originally posted by PeanutButterPony
            you can shackle your pony to a lawn chair at the show...so long as its in a conservative color.

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            • #66
              Originally posted by roseymare View Post
              I guess I don't see what you are getting at? Should a QH be allowed to show at a registered Halflinger show?
              No they shouldn't and my point is that a Halfie wouldn't be showing at a QH show either. I don't see the big deal here. I used the term discrimination just for this reason. One type is allowed in everybody's show and if you complain you are a sore loser, yet other types can't show in their venues. I truly have nothing against mules, I've showed against them in open English competitions. Nothing in the rules said mules couldn't be in those classes. Okay fair enough, but if there is something that says horses and ponies only, well okay, just move along until you find a show that will allow them.

              Why bash and trash people because they don't want your mule at their show?

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              • #67
                Originally posted by heronponie View Post
                I don't understand the pushback against mules showing alongside horses. It's not like a mule is some random equid showing up to the wrong party... they are half horse, for crying out loud.


                At my first ever dressage show, I had another competitor approach me, trying to get me to remove my horse from the warmup area because their horse was "afraid of ponies". My horse is a 15hh sporthorse, just politely waiting for our class.

                Bullying other competitors seems to be a tried & true method for subpar trainers and riders to attempt a leg up on the competition. Doesn't mean we need to cave to them.
                It is a horse show. That is the only reason needed to not allow mules. A mule is not a horse.

                A mistake was made when the mule was allowed to enter. That does not mean that the mistake should be compounded by letting an ineligible animal enter again.
                I support equine meat processing as an option for those who choose to use it.

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                • #68
                  I was at the Royal Manitoba Winter Fair a few weeks ago, where the hunter/jumper show goes at the same time as the large agricultural show. Heavy hitches rumbling down the aisle all day (amazing sight and noise), all types of farm animals, peoe with strollers walking around etc.... And the single biggest animal that sends even Grand Prix horses into a sobbing pile of "get me the hell out of here/ what on earth is THAT creature?".... Hackney ponys!!! NOT mules it's what have been fondly dubbed "crack ponys" LOL

                  Those damn hackney ponys are the single most terrifying thing a horse sees.... And year after year they are there and we just deal with this and somehow we all survive LOL
                  Go Ahead: This is a dare, not permission. Don't Do It!

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                  • #69
                    Originally posted by wonderhorseguy View Post
                    It is a horse show. That is the only reason needed to not allow mules. A mule is not a horse.

                    A mistake was made when the mule was allowed to enter. That does not mean that the mistake should be compounded by letting an ineligible animal enter again.
                    And the farm should ACKNOWLEDGE their initial "mistake" ( ) and PUBLICLY APOLOGIZE to the wronged party.

                    You're not helping your cause here, man. Quit while you're behind.
                    In loving memory of Laura Jahnke.
                    A life lived by example, done too soon.
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                    • #70
                      Originally posted by wonderhorseguy View Post
                      It is a horse show. That is the only reason needed to not allow mules. A mule is not a horse.

                      A mistake was made when the mule was allowed to enter. That does not mean that the mistake should be compounded by letting an ineligible animal enter again.
                      The fact remains that a mule is 50% horse. To deny this is simply absurd.

                      Mules are allowed in various types of recognized competition, that has been demonstrated well in this thread. It stands to reason that I am not the only person who recognizes that 50% horse blood may be sufficient justification to compete mules against horses.

                      I agree, the schooling show has the authority to make their rules however they want. They can make a rule that everyone must wear neon purple breeches to compete at their shows if they'd like- who cares. But if they're going to host a series which presumably leads to a championship, it's pretty unsportsmanlike to change the rules partway through the series to push out certain competitors. It's not illegal. It's just a d!ck move.

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                      • #71
                        Originally posted by Gestalt View Post
                        No they shouldn't and my point is that a Halfie wouldn't be showing at a QH show either. I don't see the big deal here. I used the term discrimination just for this reason. One type is allowed in everybody's show and if you complain you are a sore loser, yet other types can't show in their venues. I truly have nothing against mules, I've showed against them in open English competitions. Nothing in the rules said mules couldn't be in those classes. Okay fair enough, but if there is something that says horses and ponies only, well okay, just move along until you find a show that will allow them.

                        Why bash and trash people because they don't want your mule at their show?
                        I don't really see that applying. They said yes to the mule than backtracked and said no. Rules were changed midstream. That is my issue, not that there are rules.

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                        • #72
                          Hahaha. The mule is not allowed at the show because it might scare someone's horse? Haha, that is the most ridiculous thing I've heard all week!

                          My goodness, if you are worried that something is going to scare your horse, maybe you should just stay home.

                          Shame on the show committee for giving the girl permission ahead of time and then going back on their word. What a horrible lesson to teach the child.
                          It is not enough to know how to ride; one must know how to fall.

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                          • #73
                            Originally posted by roseymare View Post
                            I don't really see that applying. They said yes to the mule than backtracked and said no. Rules were changed midstream. That is my issue, not that there are rules.
                            Exactly. If I called show organizers, asked if I could bring my mule, and was told no, fine. I've got no problem with that. Mules are sometimes welcomed at horse shows, sometimes not. [shrug]

                            But the point you "it's a horse show not a mule show" people seem to be missing (or refusing to acknowledge in order to strengthen your own position) is that:

                            1. The people did ask in advance.

                            2. The show organizers and the judge agreed in advance that it was OK.

                            3. The mule attended the show and, by all accounts, was perfectly well behaved, caused no trouble at all, and no horses at the show had any problems with the mule.

                            It was only after the fact, when the young lady on the mule ended up with a pile of ribbons, that having a mule present became a problem. To any reasonable person, it's pretty clear that this has absolutely nothing to do with safety concerns and everything to do with poor losers grasping at any straw to eliminate a competitor who beat them.
                            "Facts are meaningless. You can use facts to prove anything
                            that's even remotely true."

                            Homer Simpson

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                            • #74
                              Ok, now I want a mule

                              Comment


                              • #75
                                Originally posted by NoSuchPerson View Post
                                Exactly. If I called show organizers, asked if I could bring my mule, and was told no, fine. I've got no problem with that. Mules are sometimes welcomed at horse shows, sometimes not. [shrug]

                                But the point you "it's a horse show not a mule show" people seem to be missing (or refusing to acknowledge in order to strengthen your own position) is that:

                                1. The people did ask in advance.

                                2. The show organizers and the judge agreed in advance that it was OK.

                                3. The mule attended the show and, by all accounts, was perfectly well behaved, caused no trouble at all, and no horses at the show had any problems with the mule.

                                It was only after the fact, when the young lady on the mule ended up with a pile of ribbons, that having a mule present became a problem. To any reasonable person, it's pretty clear that this has absolutely nothing to do with safety concerns and everything to do with poor losers grasping at any straw to eliminate a competitor who beat them.
                                (bold mine) ^^^
                                This is pretty obvious, even to me! What a load of sour grapes. It's pretty bad when someone does their due diligence and asks ahead of time, is given information, and then is punished for believing what they were told.

                                And this happened

                                only because the mule cleaned their clocks

                                and the losers acted like what they ARE, loooosers
                                .
                                Founding Member: Spotted Saddlebred Pals Clique

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                                • #76
                                  Originally posted by ManyDogs View Post
                                  Ok, now I want a mule
                                  I've owned 4 mules, currently own 2. I loved 3 of them.

                                  But, mules aren't for everyone. Anyone who thinks they might want a mule should definitely spend some time with some mules before buying one.

                                  For me, I was completely captivated by the first mule I ever met and never did get her out of my head. I was like a 13 year old coming face-to-face with [insert name of any current teen idol]. It was many years before I was in a position to buy one for myself, but my mule enthusiasm has not diminished, although it's backed up by a lot more knowledge and logic than I had back then.
                                  "Facts are meaningless. You can use facts to prove anything
                                  that's even remotely true."

                                  Homer Simpson

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                                  • #77
                                    Originally posted by Emily&Jake View Post
                                    The son's owner is worried a mule might bray and *could* scare horses? That's not much different than a horse screaming it's head off and disrupting the "peace".
                                    Plus he even says himself that the mule caused no issues, so my guess is most of the horses who attend that series are fine with the mule.

                                    What a silly excuse for saying the mule cannot return with the little girl and finish the rest of the series.
                                    We attend local open shows whenever possible and at one of them, a couple brought 2 large mules. They were gorgeous, competed well and won a few classes. When they brayed, yes it got everyone's attention, but the horses didn't spook, they just looked in the mule's direction with curiosity.
                                    So we fix our eyes not on what is seen, but on what is unseen, since what is seen is temporary, but what is unseen is eternal.2 Corinthians 4:18

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                                    • #78
                                      I don't necessarily think it was because they got their clocks cleaned so to speak.

                                      It's because it's a violation of the rules as they understand them. If somebody placed lower than me and used illegal tack, I might be inclined to report that as much as I would someone who placed above me, especially if it were something equally obvious as the horse NOT BEING A HORSE.

                                      Further they are permitting the rider to keep her points, they didn't "change the rules" midstream and go back and disqualify her, just said that the animal would be ineligible to compete at another show.

                                      I don't really buy this "it's a series!!!" Bit either. Each show is individually entered and each show can have different rules. They have changed the rules for the next shows because they made a mistake but they didn't say "send the ribbons back you cheater!"

                                      I'm more sensitive to this when its kids showing because how do you explain to a child that they got beat by someone who wasn't following the rules as you understand them? As a trainer you have parents to deal with etc and it is one thing to say "you didn't ride as well as she did" but it's really hard to answer when a parent is saying "we spent all this money on a horse show and were riding against a MULE?" Trainers are in a tough spot too.
                                      Originally posted by PeanutButterPony
                                      you can shackle your pony to a lawn chair at the show...so long as its in a conservative color.

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                                      • #79
                                        I'm just glad to read they didn't ask for the ribbons back. I've seen that happen a few weeks after a show over similar (but non-mule-related) sour grapes.
                                        SA Ferrana Moniet 1988-2011
                                        CP Trilogy 2002-2015
                                        My bloggity blog: Hobby Horse: Adventures of the Perpetual Newbie

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                                        • Original Poster

                                          #80
                                          Originally posted by soloudinhere View Post
                                          I think it really is as simple as 'it's a horse show and a mule is not a horse or pony.'

                                          A friend has one, I think he is the cutest thing, have no problems with schooling shows, etc but at a recognized, rated horse show, it's a show where horses compete against horses and the rules state as much.

                                          As for this particular show, I'm not sure what dog the OP has in this fight beyond being a self-righteous mule owner, but I think it is pretty distasteful for people who are not involved in the situation beyond reading about it on facebook to be harassing the farm directly. If it does not impact you, why are you getting involved?

                                          JenM, are you planning to make the trip from california to texas solely to make a point? Snicklefritz, are you planning to buy a mule to compete at THIS show?

                                          If not, maybe get a hobby and let the farm and the affected customer work this out amongst themselves. I don't thing teaching children that getting a bunch of strangers to gang up on someone you don't like is an appropriate lesson.
                                          Geez, who peed in your Cheerios this morning?

                                          I would have posted this topic about ANY SHOW where ANY TRAINERS complained about something in which the show organizers okayed in advance.

                                          It's about good sportsmanship and teaching kids to deal with what's thrown at them. Not everybody can win a blue ribbon, but apparently some trainers in this part of Texas feel the need to complain when their kids don't.

                                          "Harassing the farm directly"?! Since when is pointing out a bad decision "harassment"? You seem awfully sensitive to this topic. Were you one of the trainers who complained?

                                          The more I think about it, the more utterly ridiculous this whole fiasco is. It's a damn schooling show. Lighten up people!!!

                                          I'm not apologizing for pointing out something wrong in the horse show world and there is nothing "self-righteous" about me. I can't help it if you are jealous because you don't have a mule.

                                          No one said you have to read this thread so if it bothers you, just go find another sand box to play in.
                                          Proud owner of a Slaughter-Bound TB from a feedlot, and her surprise baby...!
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