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When trainers at a show get rewarded for being sore losers/poor sports.... SMH

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  • #21
    Originally posted by Arelle View Post
    I cannot believe you. You shut down the original petition last night because it had gotten too hot for you to handle and now you're on here stirring up shit?

    For anyone interested, the farm owner's son posted a response online today to clarify matters:
    "Never let the truth get in the way of a good story......

    Many of you have seen the mule story circulating your news feeds. A few details were left out that i feel need to be clarified.

    First and foremost, no one's horse lost to a mule. Mules cannot win equitation classes. Good eq riders win eq classes.

    That being said, the decision to not allow the mule to return had nothing to do with HLF management's capitulation to cry baby trainers. The thought of a mule braying was never taken into account. No, this particular mule did not cause any problems, this time. And maybe it never would. But if it, or another mule that wanted to come show, were to bray at a crowded in gate with lots of beginner riders and horses that are not used to mules and someone's kid got hurt, that would be a travesty, and one that we at HLF are not willing to allow the possibility of happening. Safety comes first, now and always, period.

    Yes, mules are allowed to compete in some levels of dressage per USEF rules. But at a dressage show there is only ever 1 horse in the ring at a time, and never a crowd of horses at the in gate waiting their turn to go, with riders who may not be fully awake or paying much attention (dont lie, I've seen you half asleep waiting for your spot in the order before, feet out of the stirrups staring off into space). They are NOT allowed at hunter shows, likely for this very reason.

    And lastly, the child in question has not been banned. Nor did she lose her points. Equitation is based on the rider, so she is welcome, and indeed encouraged, to return with a horse or pony to continue on yer way to series champion.

    I was saddened to hear the events that unfolded into the story you have all read about over the last few days. My heart reaches out to the little girl. But safety must always come first, and to that end there can be no room for compromise.

    My name is Josh Mims. I am no outsider to horse shows and safety awareness. I have the privilege of running a gate at some of the nicest AA shows in the country for 40+ weeks a year. I can tell you safety always is top priority at those shows, and hidden lake farm is, and will continue to be, no different in that regard.

    We must all strive to do not what is easy but what is right, even if it is not popular."
    This sounds like such a ridiculous reach.

    They made a (bad) decision. At least have the nerve to stand up for it.

    That poor child did wonderful and I hope she can hold onto the feelings she had that day and not let it be tainted by all this.

    Comment


    • #22
      Yes, I have been following this on Facebook so did know the original petition was closed. Which was nice since the person who started the petition didn't want people directly harrassing the farm.

      But, it still doesn't change the fact that they gave the girl permission to attend te first show and then caved to some ridiculous pressure from trainers to tell the girl she can't bring the mule back to the other 2 shows. Too bad since the girl's horse is hurt and she had to borrow the mule so she could show. It's really a shame that a bunch of adults can't show a little sportsmanship and let the girl and the mule (who caused NO TROUBLE) finish out the show series. Then you could enact a "NO MULES" rule for all future shows. Although I kind of doubt there was a long line of mules waiting to compete anyway.

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      • #23
        Originally posted by inca View Post
        Yes, I have been following this on Facebook so did know the original petition was closed. Which was nice since the person who started the petition didn't want people directly harrassing the farm.

        But, it still doesn't change the fact that they gave the girl permission to attend te first show and then caved to some ridiculous pressure from trainers to tell the girl she can't bring the mule back to the other 2 shows. Too bad since the girl's horse is hurt and she had to borrow the mule so she could show. It's really a shame that a bunch of adults can't show a little sportsmanship and let the girl and the mule (who caused NO TROUBLE) finish out the show series. Then you could enact a "NO MULES" rule for all future shows. Although I kind of doubt there was a long line of mules waiting to compete anyway.
        Yep. If you are going to take "issue" with "safety" concerning mules, then allow the first mule who was well behaved to be grandfathered in, and set your rule from there.

        I hope the next show there brings 3 or 4 mules.
        "I am but a passenger on this ship"
        -- Stendal (epitaph)

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        • #24
          I judged a show last fall. One of the barns brought a mule and tied it near the show ring.. It spooked pretty much all the horses that were NOT from that barn and I felt gave the riders from the barn with the loudly coloured and noisy mule an unfair advantage, and was possibly dangerous to the riders of horses that had never seen a mule.

          Based on this I can see why the show organizer would rethink their policy of allowing the mule at the show. Lots of horses are afraid of mules (and minis) and not everyone has access to desensitize to them. Plus...it is a HORSE show, not a mule or donkey show.

          Sad for the kid, but nice she had such a good show.
          Freeing worms from cans everywhere!

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          • #25
            Because heaven forbid anyone use a lick of common sense and ask the people to not TIE their mule near the show ring.

            This particular mule was not tied near the show ring nor did it bother any of the horses. Some local trainers complained after the fact and got the mule "uninvited" to future shows. Bad form, in my opinion.

            If you are worried about your show being over run by mules, simply enact a rule NOW that mules are not welcome but allow the well-behaved mule to finish out this show series. No problem if this mule can not return for future show series. But to let it start and not finish just stinks.

            Comment

            • Original Poster

              #26
              Yes, mules are allowed to compete in some levels of dressage per USEF rules. But at a dressage show there is only ever 1 horse in the ring at a time, and never a crowd of horses at the in gate waiting their turn to go, with riders who may not be fully awake or paying much attention (dont lie, I've seen you half asleep waiting for your spot in the order before, feet out of the stirrups staring off into space). They are NOT allowed at hunter shows, likely for this very reason.

              My name is Josh Mims.

              Hey Josh, allow me to educate you since despite you being a gate person for 40+ years there are still some things you need to learn:

              1. Mules can compete in USDF dressage up to FEI levels. That'a a bit different than the "some levels" you stated.

              2. Believe it or not, at dressage shows, mules warm up in the same arenas as horses. Perhaps you thought they were placed in the back of the facility in a sound proof room for warm up?

              3. Why do you even think it's a little okay for someone to be waiting at the in gate, half asleep with their feet out of the stirrups? I can think of a lot more worse things that could happen than a mule braying.

              I'm sorry, but there are a lot more names for this guy other than idiot, but I will not post them here. This guy was not the right person to put in charge of damage control...

              It's a shame he won't see this but I would love to hear him defend against my points.
              Last edited by jenm; Apr. 24, 2015, 07:13 PM.
              Proud owner of a Slaughter-Bound TB from a feedlot, and her surprise baby...!
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              • #27
                A mule is not a horse. Why should a mule be allowed to compete at a horse show?
                I support equine meat processing as an option for those who choose to use it.

                Comment

                • Original Poster

                  #28
                  Originally posted by CHT View Post
                  I the loudly coloured and noisy mule an unfair advantage, and was possibly dangerous to the riders of horses that had never seen a mule.

                  Based on this I can see why the show organizer would rethink their policy of allowing the mule at the show. Lots of horses are afraid of mules (and minis) and not everyone has access to desensitize to them. Plus...it is a HORSE show, not a mule or donkey show.


                  This is a pretty shortsighted comment considering the fact that:

                  1. The mom of the rider asked ahead of time if bringing a mule was okay.

                  2. The mule was well behaved the entire time. It is used at a therapeutic riding center, so no doubt it has impeccable manners. Probably more so than many of the ponies in attendance.

                  The first show I brought my mule to, the judge knew he was green and it was his first time, and she actually encouraged me to have him hang out around the in gate to get used to the activity. Guess what? Nothing happened. No horse freaked out, no kid got hurt and even more so, NOT ONE PERSON COMPLAINED.

                  Our second show, we hung out on the rail near the in gate to watch my friends, and guess what? Nothing happened. Shocking, I know.

                  Saying a show is for horses or ponies only is also a cop out.

                  This whole thread has made me feel very fortunate to live in an area in which my mule is welcome everywhere and judges aren't bothered by the fact he's not a horse or a pony.

                  And yes, I do ask ahead of time if it's okay to bring a mule.
                  Proud owner of a Slaughter-Bound TB from a feedlot, and her surprise baby...!
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                  • #29
                    Originally posted by jenm View Post
                    Hey Josh, allow me to educate you since despite you being a gate person for 40+ years there are still somethings you need to learn:

                    1. Mules can compete in USDF dressage up to FEI levels. That'a a bit different than the "some levels" you stated.

                    2. Believe it or not, at dressage shows, mules warm up in the same arenas as horses. Perhaps you thought they were placed in the back of the facility in a sound proof room for warm up?

                    3. Why do you even think it's a little okay for someone to be waiting at the in gate, half asleep with their feet out of the stirrups? I can think of a lot more worse things that could happen than a mule braying.

                    I'm sorry, but there are a lot more names for this guy other than idiot, but I will not post them here. This guy was not the right person to put in charge of damage control...

                    It's a shame he won't see this but I would love to hear him defend against my points.
                    Amen. And if someone's sitting at a show in-gate half-asleep with their feet out of the stirrups, they deserve whatever happens to them. That's just suicidal in any warmup ring.

                    Most people don't have much chance to "desensitize" their horses to: draft horses, semi trucks, crowds of hundreds of people, loudspeakers, mules, donkeys, goats, sheep, pigs, assault-vehicle-style strollers, balloon animals, hot-air balloons, monster trucks, tractor pulls, demolition derbies, Loretta Lynn concerts, and giant midways with neon lights, electric music, Ferris wheels and shooting galleries. Yet somehow even those of us who'd never gone to fair before survived even when our horse might have something of a bug-eyed moment or two. Even "crazy" ex-racehorses and "fire-breathing" saddle-seat horses all had a weird moment then got over themselves. If your horse has an unrecoverable complete mental meltdown because there's a mule standing nearby, that is not really a problem with the mule.
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                    • #30
                      The son's owner is worried a mule might bray and *could* scare horses? That's not much different than a horse screaming it's head off and disrupting the "peace".
                      Plus he even says himself that the mule caused no issues, so my guess is most of the horses who attend that series are fine with the mule.

                      What a silly excuse for saying the mule cannot return with the little girl and finish the rest of the series.
                      Originally posted by katarine
                      I don't want your prayers, tiny cow.
                      Originally posted by Pat9
                      When it's time for a horse to go to a new person, that person will appear. It's pony magic.

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                      • #31
                        Originally posted by danceronice View Post
                        Amen. If your horse has an unrecoverable complete mental meltdown because there's a mule standing nearby, that is not really a problem with the mule.
                        THIS.


                        If a horse or pony has a mental breakdown because a mule just happens to be in the vicinity, that's a training problem.

                        Comment


                        • #32
                          Originally posted by jenm View Post

                          It's a shame he won't see this but I would love to hear him defend against my points.
                          Not for long... This thread will get out there. I'm sure they are already sort of feeling some of the pain here.
                          "I am but a passenger on this ship"
                          -- Stendal (epitaph)

                          Comment


                          • #33
                            That's pretty pathetic that they allowed it and then changed their minds.

                            Whatever their excuse may be, the pair did better than everyone else in the same division and that little girl should be proud. If I were her, I'd be boycotting that show and hopefully it will catch on with other farms.
                            "If you don't have anything nice to say, don't say anything at all".

                            Comment


                            • #34
                              Isn't the purpose of a schooling show (at least in dressage?) to get your horse or whatever is allowed via USDF (which does include mules) and get them exposed to things before taking them to rated shows? I know that USEF differs on some fine points, but as a show secretary if someone asks me about an exception I make darned sure to look it up before I agree. And then, if I make a mistake (which I have), I'm stuck for the whole series and the committee is fine with it.

                              I've seen some shenanigans at shows that make a mule braying look tame. I do have a horse who is nervous around mules. he's also nervous around misbehaving youngsters, strollers, bikes, and things that go bump in the night, but he still goes (how else will he ever get used to stuff - I introduce it at home and then reinforce it at a schooling show). We've asked people to take their nutty lunged horses out in the far field before when we noticed a problem, and it was just common sense, and they did.

                              I did get tossed because of a cow once - the whole herd came towards my 18 hand (really!) warmblood and he lost it. He was used to cows, but apparently the whole herd was a bit much...But I didn't blame the cows...

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                              • #35
                                Originally posted by emipou View Post
                                Not for long... This thread will get out there. I'm sure they are already sort of feeling some of the pain here.
                                They know they've got a problem...

                                Comment


                                • #36
                                  This reminds me of the reverse discrimination. Mules can compete at horse shows but horses can't compete at mule shows.

                                  In Josh's post he mentioned that mules are not allowed in hunter shows. People have attacked his comment regarding dressage shows but so far I haven't seen anything anything rebutting (is that a word?) the hunter shows.

                                  For what it's worth I have been in open shows with mules, my horse was fine until one started braying. That is one ugly sound, I never managed to get 100% of his attention back.

                                  Comment


                                  • #37
                                    I don't know about "official" hunter shows, but I've been to multiple hunter/jumper schooling shows that allowed mules. Never did see an accident because there was a mule around.
                                    The Trials and Jubilations of a Twenty-Something Re-rider
                                    Happy owner of Kieran the mostly-white-very-large-not-pony.

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                                    • #38
                                      Originally posted by Gestalt View Post
                                      This reminds me of the reverse discrimination. Mules can compete at horse shows but horses can't compete at mule shows.

                                      In Josh's post he mentioned that mules are not allowed in hunter shows. People have attacked his comment regarding dressage shows but so far I haven't seen anything anything rebutting (is that a word?) the hunter shows.

                                      For what it's worth I have been in open shows with mules, my horse was fine until one started braying. That is one ugly sound, I never managed to get 100% of his attention back.
                                      That's what recordings and ringtones are for.


                                      I'm making a candy-wrapper crinkling sound on my iphone that I can play instead of a clicker. The unwrapping of a peppermint, or at least the sound of it can be a powerful motivator. lol.

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                                      • #39
                                        My old show made was scared of mules and ponies. We showed at venues with lots of mules, venues with lots of ponies and venues with both. Guess what we dealt with it. Kept her occupied when near them, etc etc. It was our problem. We certainly didn't tell show management to change their classes or rules. She never did really get over her fear but it was manageable.

                                        Comment


                                        • #40
                                          I haven't read all the responses, but...schooling shows are allowed to run under their own set of rules, right? There's no schooling show governing body telling them that mules can't come. So while yes, USEF says mules can't show, it wasn't a USEF show. If the barn says you can show a donkey, mule, zebra, etc, its up to them. That's really silly. I hope the girl and mule find a more welcoming place to show.

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