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A dog attacked my horses- Update

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  • sbt78lw Paint ball gun! Great idea!!!!!!!!!!!! A compromise if I ever heard one.

    Hawaii, PLease understand that no one is attacking you. I am sorry for your loss. I am sure it was very difficult. I am glad you have a loving relationship with you pet. I love my dog very much, heck it is my screen name Rolex, but a comparison to a child he is not. No one here is saying kill all the animals. Infact everyone is talking about protecting them. I am with you on this, Guns freak me out. I have been a vet tech for 7 years and have held many animals while being euthanized. Sure would perfer that to shooting them. Especially if someone was a bad shot. Blow the dog's leg off. Not too nice. But still, I don't think anyone is personally attacking you.

    ~~Lisa~~
    Aiden's web page


    Organ donation: a gift for kids to grow UP on
    ~~Lisa~~

    www.caringbridge.org/fl/aiden

    Comment

    • Original Poster

      I have to give my neighbors some credit. It appears that they have finally fixed the invisible fence that goes around their yard. Yesterday, when I got home, I saw small flags that mark where the fence is around the yard's perimeter.

      I am still concerned, though, because I do not see the threat of a shock stopping this dog if he sees one of my horses. The area where I ride is only about 30' from their house.

      I have not ridden since the incident and I am afraid of what Picasso will do when he hears the dog frantically barking. The neighbors will often tie the dog up in their yard where he will bark at my horse while I am riding. Picasso is a Tb and the dog's barking has fried his Tb brain to the point where he becomes almost unrideable: and this was before the dog came after his legs.

      Thank you everyone for all of your great suggestions. You have been a great help in this stressful time.

      *formerly cfc*

      [This message was edited by Catalina on Mar. 27, 2003 at 07:36 AM.]

      Comment

      • Original Poster

        <BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by JackieBlue:
        I also need to add that if a Bull Mastiff meant to "hamstring" your horses, and managed to get its mouth on them (multiple times, you said) they would be "hamstrung", so to speak. It is apparent from the fact that you found no holes on your horses that the dog's intention was not to "bring them down".
        <HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

        I agree, but this was the first time the dog had done this. With repetition, I imagine he would get better at being able to actually latch on to a horse leg.

        My Holsteiner yearling was leaping straight up in the air twisting and jerking her hind legs in a frantic attempt to keep them away from the dog's jaws. She could very well injure herself with these actions. This is also behavior that I do not want her to associate with a barking dog.

        *formerly cfc*

        Comment


        • Dogs don't wake-up one morning and decide that they are going to maul someone. Typically, these attacks are provoked (in the dog's mind) and have been proceeded by warning signals that have been missed by people (usually young children) or have been rationalized by the owner ("he only growls when I physically discipline him"). Young children should NEVER be left unsupervised with dogs; it does seem as though many of these maulings occur while the parent is out of view.

          I consider myself a very responsible dog owner and last weekend one of my dogs went through a window screen luckily into the fenced yard. The next day a neighbor's dog--and these people seem very responsible--came within inches of going thru a screen while I was walking by with my other dog. So, let's all of us be careful with our dogs and open windows. This seems a temptation that many dogs are unable to resist.

          Comment


          • I can loan you my horse. He hates dogs and has a very good aim. I am so sorry you horses had to go through that.
            my horse isn\'t spoiled, just well taken care of.

            Comment


            • I sure wouldn't trust the electronic fence either. In my experience, they don't hold a dog that is determined to get something or to get out. He would probably run right through it if he really wanted to "get" a horse. I really hate it when I hear of dogs chained up outside like that. It is very frustrating to the dog to not be able to move around and can often make one agressive. I will occasionally put mine on a chain if I'm at a show or camping but for everyday we have a stoutly fenced back yard for my JRT's and they have a dog door. They are so much happier having the freedom to come in and out like that and the solid fence keeps them from being tantallized by something they see and can't get to on the outside.

              I have a dog-through-the-window story. When we were building our house the JRT's would jump in and out of the living room area to the front porch through the framed window area. Well the day they installed the windows, we never gave it any thought that it could be a problem. Dylan, our youngest JRT, trotted up to the window and leaped, hit the glass and bounced off backwards hurting his snout. Thank heavens he didn't break the window or hurt himself. You never saw a dog with his feelings hurt as much as his were that day. To this day, he's never tried to go through a window again. Hopefully, the neighbors dog won't try to go through a closed one now he knows he can push out a screen.

              "Dogs look up to you, cats look down on you. Give me a pig. He just looks you in the eye and treats you as an equal" Winston Churchill
              "No hour of life is lost that is spent in the saddle..." Winston Churchill

              Comment


              • Catalina, talk to your neighbors about setting the dog up for a correction, and to test the fence's effect on him.

                Have them put a long, but light, rope/line on him, something strong enough to hold him if he bolts, but light enough that he'll forget he's got it on.

                Have them just meander around the yard with the dog on the line until he forgets it is on him, but (and it should be the man) be sure they have a good hold on him.

                Then, lead your least likely to panic horse out to where he can see it. He will probably react and try to come out of the yard. If the fence stops him (and the power should be at high to really make him notice), then you will be able to rest easier. If it does not, they can still control him as he is on a line, but they will see that the fence isn't adequate.

                I am not a fan of invisible fences, because dogs DO learn that they can run through them if they only endure a moments pain. But maybe it will persuade them to put up a REAL fence, or give the dog up to someone who doesn't have this same situation.

                Just a suggestion...

                Laurie
                Laurie

                Comment


                • I just skimmed this whole thread, but I didn't read every post. I agree with Tiramit and I STRONGLY SUGGEST that you buy or borrow a donkey. It would solve this whole problem. Donkeys protect their pasture and their herd. They HATE dogs. They will chase dogs out of the pasture or trample them if they don't leave the pasture. They are on duty 24/7, so you can feel comfortable leaving your horses when you go to work. The donkey and the dog can "work things out."

                  Really, please consider this. Donkeys are such excellent guard animals that some farmers in Africa use them to protect their sheep and goat herds from cheetahs! If donkeys are effective against cheetahs, they can handle your neighbor's Mastiff. No problem.

                  "The power of acute observation is commonly called cynicism by those who have not got it." - George Bernard Shaw
                  \"So shines a good deed in a weary world\" - Willy Wonka

                  Comment


                  • yep, another one here who thinks the whole invisible fence thing is a total copout. These people obviously don't know how to train a dog, and let me tell you, it takes training and a lot of work to get a dog to respond to an invisible fence.

                    Trust me, they see something they want on the other side, no amount of little shock on their neck is going to stop them.

                    Case in point (and we know how to train), we have a 90 pound Chesapeake Bay REtriever....Alice is far from mean, but was jumping up on our picket fence which rims our yard to see the skateboarding kids and the ups truck. We put an invisible fence on the normal fence to make her back off the fence and not put her front feet on it and peer over. I could tell inthe snow that she would stay away.....but we watched that silly dog, when the mailman or whoever she was interested in (they give dog bonies) just stand there, feet on the thing, her neck twitching from the invisible fence---turned up on max too. That was all for a stupid bone, and this dog doesn't have a mean bone in her body....she was quite happy to be schocked.

                    My inlaws live in a subdivision with CCR's which don't allow wood fences--my kids and I have been attacked by an Akita who came thru his invisible fence at us.....the detterent level is squat.

                    Maybe the donkey thing is a good idea, didn't know they were so protective. I sitll say to have a gun, and let these people know that if you see the dog on your property you have the right to shoot it as it has menaced your livestock inthe past.

                    Elippses Users Clique........
                    Co-Founder Occularly Challenged Equine Support Group
                    Ellipses users clique ...
                    TGFPT,HYOOTGP

                    Comment


                    • Hehe - NOT that I advocate this sort of thing, but my parents put up invisible fence for their 'wanderer/car chaser'. My Mom called me a few weeks later to complain that the dog would run thru the fence if the mood struck her. I suggested clipping a square of hair off her neck where the box sits - voila! She's a hairy beastie (lab/border mix) and the shock thru all the hair just wasn't enough.
                      Now, for all your animal rightious type folks - I can GUARANTEE that the shock she feels hurts FAR LESS than the pain of being hit by a car or a whomp in the head by the neighbor's pony.

                      Comment


                      • <BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by Hawaii:

                        Excuse me, I'm one of those "freaks" then. You don't know what the heck I went thru. My dog is like my child. <HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

                        I'm really sorry if that offended you, but I was talking about someone specific, not you. And you don't know this person.

                        I love my pets too. Since I don't have a child, I have no idea if it is like a child. But I sure do get offended when people who dote on every move their pet makes, let their pet eat off their plates or any other number of things I find gross imply that they love their pet more than I do, because I'm so mean, I don't let my dog sleep in my bed or feed her whipped cream for dessert.

                        It's similar to children. Some parents are ridiculously overprotective and indulgent (IMO). I really don't think that is doing any child (or pet) any favors.

                        I do not smirk. But if I did, this would be a good opportunity. - Worf
                        The truth is rarely pure, and never simple. Oscar Wilde

                        Comment


                        • I think it is a nice first step that they have put up the invisible fence and hopefully indicates that they are taking this seriously. The problem is if they think this will take care of the whole problem and they are now done because it will not stop a dog when the desire hits him to run. We had an invisible fence for years and it worked on my dog who was a total and complete wimp. Even my wimpy dog ran through it once while chasing a squirrel. I also had friends that had a fence for their lab who generally stayed in the yard but when he wanted to go for a run, they would watch him deliberately take a running start and blow through the invisible fence. A vet advised my sister not to bother getting an invisible fence for her Husky because when a Husky is chasing something they are on complete instinct mode and no training no matter how thorough will stop them (and let me tell you these dogs are beautifully trained). So the fence is nice and all but could create more problems if these neighbors think this is all they have to do and/or they do not need to be vigilant anymore about not letting the dog get out because hey the invisible fence will take care of it. Please talk to them to make sure they are not going to rely solely on this fence to "solve" the whole problem. The test idea is good if you have a really really really good way to stop the dog if it runs the fence when it sees your horse. Keep us posted.
                          There is something about the outside of a horse that is good for the inside of a man.(Churchill)

                          Comment


                          • I love dogs and we own five dogs ourself but if anyone of our dogs ever showed serious aggression to other animals and especially people serious measures would be taken. We have in the past put a nice female GSD to sleep. We had owned since a puppy, she had been through multiple obedience classes, my sister and I as kids played with her all the time, she was great with our other dogs. The day she jumped our fence (wood with wire) and attacked our neighbor's dog-who was on OUR property-she was put to sleep. She meant to kill that dog and my mom didn't want her around kids. Possibly we could have found her another home but was it worth the risk she'd hurt someone one day-no.
                            All of our dogs have been through obedience. We have a fenced in yard (five foot fence with wire) and they are only out when we are home. If they are out of the yard they are on a leash except to our older rottie who will stop in her tracks if we say so. My mom does have an agressive mix from a shelter. She has never tried to bite anything/anyone but does growl. We are aware of this so she is always on a tight leash away from home, she's socialized a lot and has improved, is in lifelong obedience, etc.
                            If any of our dogs ever attacked our horses that would be it. If our neighbors dogs did we would be pretty serious in warning them something has to be done. I think obedience and owner awareness can go a long way but are these owner's willing to do that? Maybe the dog didn't draw blood this time and maybe he doesn't mean to but mastiffs are strong dogs with strong jaws. Damage is easy to do

                            "There are times when you can trust a horse, time when you can't, and times when you have to."

                            www.boo.riana.com

                            Comment


                            • Did not read all the posts, but I assume you already tried to get the police involved- not against the dog, but against the owners (after all, it is they who are at fault). I had a neighbor who had a dog that he kept in his yard-it barked constantly, and I eventually called the police. On my sayso, they warned him that he could end up in court. The dog was gone the next day.

                              Comment


                              • Chiming in on the invisible fence here...

                                ...it does NOT work for a really determined dog. Again, something I learned at the boarding kennel/vet hospital. One day, one of our regular borders...a husky/malamute type...showed up on the doorstep covered in mud, with his "invisible fence" HARNESS (read: multiple shock points) still on. I touched the harness and got ZAPPED. I don't know how far away the dog lived, but in this case the shock was pretty long-range...he was WAY out of his own yard. I took the harness off the poor guy so he wouldn't keep getting shocked. Not that he cared.

                                In this case, the dog was not aggressive, just determined to wander. He did have a lot of hair, but so did the vet's two Cockers...and their invisible fence worked like a charm. So I think whether or not an invisible fence works depends totally on the dog. Some will respect it...others will not.

                                ~Sara
                                *Member of the Dirt Divers 78th Airborne Unit, ATH Squadron*
                                *T-Minus 3 Weeks Until My Beval Devon Arrives!*

                                Comment


                                • I could lend you my guy for awhile. Out of necessity I "taught" him to turn on approaching dogs on command. We used to take riders out on road rides and trail rides where several dogs would come out of their yards and after the horses. I taught Cody to Turn and sorta of do some "cutting" moves on them (like cutting horses do with cattle) to keep the dog away from the group until the others could get away. You would be surprised how many of these dogs will have a look of "Oh S**T" on their face, when the horse turns to it, drops it's head and strikes at it and how many dog owners who who are sitting on the porch watching as fluffy lights out after the horses suddenly become concerned that they may have a large vet bill or a dead dog to contend with, suddenly decide fluffy needs to be gotten under control. As I indicated this is by command only, the farm dogs can come and go as they please without retribution. My toy fox can run around my guys feet and sit on his back, but one word from me or the Barn owner (thank god I told her about this, as last week there was a coyote that wanted to get up close and personal with her, she brought my guy out, gave him the word and Mr. Coyote couldn't run fast enough) and doggy is in for the shock of his life. By the way this works on the neighbors wayward goats when they get into the pasture without permission also, Cody just rounds them up and sends them back to where they came from.
                                  Pictures of my boy & girl are at:

                                  http://community.webshots.com/album/87585424nesozA


                                  http://www.tombstonequarterhorses.com/pages/1/index.htm

                                  Comment


                                  • ttldr, your trained horse is way cool. How did you do it?????

                                    Another animal that will definitely keep dogs away is a llama. Llamas can be a bit difficult as they are camelids and they can spit gobs of nasty goo. They'll spit on your neighbors and maybe you too, but they are incredible at warding off predators. I have heard that it is best to either get a young llama, or one that has been raised with horses, as they may not like the horses much at first and spit at them and run them off too - until they get used to them. Llamas are supposed to be the best thing since sliced bread to turn out with sheep anyplace there are coyotes, wild dogs or packs, wolves or cougars around.
                                    Tranquility Farm - Proud breeder of Born in the USA Sport Horses, and Cob-sized Warmbloods
                                    Now apparently completely invisible!

                                    Comment


                                    • Wow. First off, sorry for what happened to you and your horses.

                                      Secondly, to clear up some MYTHS on this thread:

                                      ELECTRIC FENCES KEEP DOGS OUT: Nope. Their fur is too thick to be penetrated by it in most cases. I get dogs in my pastures frequently, and the fences are 3 rows of electric tape.

                                      DONKEYS CHASE DOGS: Nope. Only SOME DONKEYS chase dogs. No one is quite sure why not all of them do. But, some donkeys RUN like hell a the site of a dog... and others turn on it and let hooves fly.

                                      Regarding the argument of whether or not VICIOUS dogs should be shot, the law is pretty freakin clear in the Midwest: dogs and livestock don't mix and the DOG is always considered the less valuable critter.

                                      We bought a gun and learned to use it at the advice of our local sheriff after 2 dogs got my mini down on the ground. I am an animal lover. Shooting ANYTHINg does not come easily. However, once you see a dog with its teeth around your horse's leg, nothing is ever the same again. How do we know what dogs are vicious and which are benign? When every second counts, it doesn't matter! We default in the favor of protecting our horses.

                                      Another point: Most of the dogs running loose and getting into trouble are NOT owned by loving owners. Shooting a dog is NOT an inhumane thing to do from a physical stanpoint if you are a decent shot. And, in many cases, it's also not inhumane from a mental standpoint. Keep in mind, most of these loose dogs are strays, or are owned by uncaring or abusive owners... they are often out fending for themselves. What a horrific life they must lead..

                                      And, re: the argument about "being reasonable and talking to owners about their dogs," that position makes the really dangerous ASSUMPTION THAT THE DOG's OWNERS ARE RESPONSIBLE, CARING, UPSTANDING AND RATIONAL CITIZENS! The very fact that they a) have a vicious dog and b) it's running loose would strongly contradict that assumption.

                                      I tend to think anyone defending the dog attacking the horses in this case probably doesn't have his or her own farm, and isn't responsible for theirs and their boarder's horses!

                                      [This message was edited by magnum on Mar. 28, 2003 at 05:55 PM.]
                                      "If you don't know where you're going, you'll end up somewhere else."

                                      Comment


                                      • Tiki, I was going to e-mail you, but your e-mail address is not in your profile. It was more of a neccessity to train him to fend off dogs, becuase when we took these rides, some of the riders were not the most experienced. Training him was pretty much just like training them to do anything else, repetition, although he does seem to have some inbred "cow sense" that probably made it easier and he has no fear of anything, also made it easier.
                                        Pictures of my boy & girl are at:

                                        http://community.webshots.com/album/87585424nesozA


                                        http://www.tombstonequarterhorses.com/pages/1/index.htm

                                        Comment


                                        • OK, maybe I'm slap happy or something, but I got a real laugh out of this comment...

                                          "Llamas can be a bit difficult as they are camelids and they can spit gobs of nasty goo. They'll spit on your neighbors and maybe you too, but they are incredible at warding off predators"

                                          Hahaha.... they'll spit on yer neighbors, and maybe you too....

                                          martha

                                          Proud member of the * Hoof Fetish Clique *

                                          **Give a person a fish and you feed them for a day; teach that person to use the Internet and they won't bother you for weeks. **
                                          Proud member of the * Hoof Fetish & the NervousNellieWorryWart* cliques!

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