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A dog attacked my horses- Update

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  • I believe I read the following pretty clearly and did not assume anything:

    "This dog has gotten out on NUMEROUS [emphasis is not mine but Catalina's] occassions. He completely ignores the owners when they call him and try to catch him. I am afraid that now that he realizes my horses are back there, the next time he gets out, he will go for them again. The husband told mine that he could not guarantee that he will not get out . They have two kids who are constantly going in and out and they cannot stop the dog. "

    And forgive me, but it seems pretty clear the husband will not make sure the dog is contained.

    Comment


    • Czar,

      Why in the *world* isn't he neutered?

      Comment


      • <BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by Czar:
        Anne FS...I don't consider the dog aggressive to humans as he would never growl or do anything of the sort without being provoked. To him, being hit is a provocation. Believe me, I am not defending the dog I just wanted to convey the difficulty of the situation - he's not a mean dog.. but he is an un-neutered male German Shepherd which pretty much makes him aggressive by nature.
        <HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

        Disciplining a dog is not provoking him. This dog is dominant over you humans, to wit, you discipline him he growls at you so now you now longer touch him to discipline him. He makes the rules, not you. Again, rightful discipline is not provoking.

        And whoa, there on the comment that because he is an un-neutered GSD he is aggressive by nature.

        I used to board dogs. I used to show dogs. Believe me, I've had much experience with aggressive dogs whose owners couldn't do things the dogs didn't like. I've seen it a lot. It's a bad situation asking for disaster. I've also been around a lot of un-neutered GSDs and they've been terrific, trustworthy companions. You're enabling again.

        Comment


        • Oh, don't even get me started on that!!!

          He wasn't neutered at first b/c we got him when he was 6 months old. Than my uncle got a female and Cypress (our GS) and her were going to have a little family later on in life.

          By the time he started this aggressive behaviour towards other animals...he was apparently (my mother claims) too old to be neutered. I'm not sure if age matters at all - perhaps someone here could let me know?
          \"Don\'t go throwing effort after foolishness\" >>>Spur, Man From Snowy River

          Comment


          • Anne...I should print this thread and give it to my mother!! Here's the thing...the dog is a farm dog so really didn't get any formal obedience training. We found that hitting him (as disciplining) DOES make him disgruntled but we also found that yelling at him produced the desired behaviour. So, instead of doing something that he deemed provocative, we were able to use voice to discipline and he got the same picture. Honestly, after seeing him rip to shreds our other dog, I would NOT want to try and teach him who's boss. He is a massive dog.
            \"Don\'t go throwing effort after foolishness\" >>>Spur, Man From Snowy River

            Comment


            • Aggression can be caused by many things: hormones, genetics, pain, dominance, bad temperament, bad treatment, etc.

              If the aggression is hormonal, and there is no way to tell, neutering, even at this late date MAY help. But it may not. However, neutering at any age is not a bad thing, as it eliminates the risk for testicular cancer. And you may get the added benefit of improved behavior.

              Most aggression that I have witnessed as a dog trainer was dominance and created by the interaction between owner and dog. ONce a dog gets the upper hand, they are VERY unwilling to relinquish it.

              Laurie
              Laurie

              Comment


              • I neutered my male shepherd when he was 8 years old (I came around slowly to the spay/neuter your pets camp).

                If he has bad hips he should *never* be bred.

                Unless there are concerns about anesthesia, it should never be a concern. If anything, neutering the older animal prevents prostate problems.

                It's too bad he never got any formal training -- even if he is a farm dog -- it alleviates *so* many problems. Particularly with the more aggressive (and intelligent) breeds. They are *such* wonderful dogs when given the proper training and socialization... (can you tell I'm a fan?)

                Comment


                • Czar, age doesn't matter. I've had older male dogs neutered on more than one occasion. In all the cases the surgery was wonderfully successful, no complications, and even though the dogs in question were past the age of 6 years their macho behavior lessened noticeably within 4-8 weeks post-op.

                  Comment


                  • One of my biggest pet peeves is when people excuse aggressive behavior on the grounds that an animal is an un-neutered male! Another one is when aggressive dogs are bred! My family has several GSDs, some un-fixed males and females. All of them are protection trained, and none of them are aggressive, unless commanded. Being intact is no excuse for bad behavior, GSD, lab, terrier, poodle or WHATEVER. If he is aggressive with you, and growling at discipline is agressive, fix the problem, or get him to someone who can. GSDs have a bad enough reputation, don't add to it!

                    Comment


                    • jasmine~ i agree

                      *Spring Break*
                      *Simon*
                      *Homie S*

                      Comment


                      • YES, but neutering an agressive dog is probably a good idea since we don't want more aggressive dogs. Right?

                        I do not smirk. But if I did, this would be a good opportunity. - Worf
                        The truth is rarely pure, and never simple. Oscar Wilde

                        Comment


                        • Easy there Jasmine. As noted above, this dog is not mine...it is my mother's. I was just using the BB to vent a little b/c my mom won't take any suggestions on how to deal with the dog's behaviour.

                          And, like I said, the dog is not a mean dog. He's actually very affectionate - he just doesn't like to be reprimanded...well at least by anyone other than my mother. He would NEVER growl at her.

                          And I have to disagree with you on the un-neutered thing...true, any dog can be aggressive if not properly trained but I think un-neutered male dogs are more prone to this. It's just the simple fact of more hormones in the body.
                          \"Don\'t go throwing effort after foolishness\" >>>Spur, Man From Snowy River

                          Comment


                          • Absolutely! Neuter him, AND get him to a trainer to fix the aggression issues. Don't wait until this dog attacks the little child, and the police have to get involved. Trust me, if a hospital worker sees a dog bite, they WILL report it if you don't. Even if you tell them that it's a dog that's never attacked before. They are caring people who don't want to see dog bites, and will prevent the ones they can. This situation is very dangerous. If the dog is the child's grandmother's dog, why don't the parents just stop taking the kid over there? My children have never been to their grandmother's house for a similar reason (hers is a rat terrier).

                            Comment


                            • <BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by Farmdad:
                              Any dogs that get in our pastures and even look unfriendly hit the ground.<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

                              This has been a very interesting thread to read that has migrated to and come back from, interesting points. I confess to not reading through each and every thread. I feel compelled to respond to this post of Farmdad's however. I say this gently, with no malice towards anyone on COTH.

                              I tend to agree with Farmdad.

                              To one of the BB'rs who shared their "sweet, old GS heard the call of spring" and wandered away for 24 hours and the poster said "it was trigger-happy folks like "you" (referencing Farmerdad) she was afraid of." I understand your concern.

                              But I wonder if Farmerdad is trigger happy. The longest farm call I ever did was begun on a soft spring afternoon. It involved housepets, "let out". Playing together, they dug under a split rail fence lined in woven wire and then paniced, bit, ran down and tore through about 40 pregnant ewes about 2 weeks from lambing down. The flock had been owned continuously by a couple in their sixties, for close to 25 years or so. When we got to the carnage, first thing we did was pick up the phone and call a collegue who agreed to take our emergencies until we called him. Spring is a busy time in vet med. Then I called two shearers, friends and the owners called fellows. For over 18 hours no one left that barn (even to use the bathroom)as about 16 of us sheared, triaged, euthanized, cared for preemies birthed in stress, sewed, medicated yadi, yadi. Never, ever want to ever go through that again. The dogs were all known to the owners. They'd never gone in the field but would pal around, enjoying freedom in the country. Their owners simply didn't know any better. The owners of the flock felt bad telling the dog owners what had happened. Believe me there was more than enough anguish to go around.

                              I have a shotgun by the back door. I pray I never have to use it. But I also have the familiarity of the consequences if I failed my horses or sheep. I am not trigger happy at all. At all. But remembering that day, will I pray, galvanize me to protect the babes under my care, if it comes root hog or die. Bottom line, animals of all species belong on their owners' property. Good fences for all animal species, make good neighbors. I'll stop here.
                              thanks, June
                              \"The world\'s greatest achievements often happen on the edge of chaos\"

                              Comment


                              • Jasmine...it's really difficult for my sister to avoid the farm with Keaghan as her horse is there. One thing's for sure...between my dad and myself, and my other two siblings - Keaghan is never left alone with the dog. I'm hoping that the dog dies soon or has to be put down b/c of his hips.

                                My mom doesn't really see the dog in the light that I do b/c she wasn't there for any of the attacks and he is a very loyal and loving dog most of the time.

                                I'm considering getting him neutered myself as she doesn't seem to see that as necessary. I know that when I have a dog I will be much more responsible and have the dog taken to obedience classes regardless of the breed or the sex.
                                \"Don\'t go throwing effort after foolishness\" >>>Spur, Man From Snowy River

                                Comment


                                • The pain in his hips could very well make him react to the child, especially if the boy is laying on him. I would stop that from happening right away.

                                  Pain can make even the sweetest dog bite the person they love most...

                                  Laurie
                                  Laurie

                                  Comment


                                  • I've seen the aftermath of pet dogs gone "wolf" on sheep firsthand. But they were SHEEP! Horses are horses and sheep are pasturemaggots,..er ...I mean, sheep are sheep. Many differences there.
                                    "Absent a correct diagnosis, medicine is poison, surgery is trauma and alternative therapy is witchcraft" A. Kent Allen
                                    http://www.etsy.com/shop/tailsofglory

                                    Comment


                                    • Czar-I can understand that. My mother in law refuses to see her precious terrier the way I do. That's why my kids have never been to her house. Just make sure that the dog is never close to the child than an adult. Too scary!

                                      I'm sorry if I came across a little strong. Rereading my post, I'm offended! It just pushes my buttons to hear about people that don't realize that their dog could be dangerous. That, and GSDs are my fave breed. I hate having to defend them because of their rep!

                                      Comment


                                      • Rereading my post, I'm offended!

                                        lol...no hard feelings Jasmine
                                        \"Don\'t go throwing effort after foolishness\" >>>Spur, Man From Snowy River

                                        Comment


                                        • All I could think of reading this thread is that poor woman in California who was attacked and killed by those 2 vicious dogs as their owner watched.

                                          Dog owners have a responsibilty to society to be real sure their animal fits into society. Once that dog crosses the line into agression there's no turning back.

                                          WH

                                          Comment

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