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Old owner has black beauty syndrome with my horse?

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  • Old owner has black beauty syndrome with my horse?

    I'm going back to school + working full time, and I'm not going to have the time my horse needs or the time BO wants me to be at the barn. I work for BO part time to cover some board. So I want to put my horse up for free lease.

    I told his old owner, who gave the horse to me for free, that I wanted to free lease him one time and she flipped. Going on and on about how the horse is going to kill someone else, and I'm the only one that can ride it. He only loves me, etc..

    The horse I guess used to buck sometimes when they were roping off him or dragging Bulls of him. After getting him and letting him have time to CHILL three years ago, I sort of restarted him English and took my time with him. Then I got extensive vet work done on him, only to find out he had some old injuries that were probably pretty painful when they occurred, and could have been aggravated while dragging Bulls or cows. Though, I don't understand why they wouldn't aggravate when jumping?

    He is a super kind soul. He is now advanced beyond me, and without the time he needs, I fear he is just going to waste away. I've put kids on him on the lunge line, but off the lunge line he is a little hotter and more sensitive. Has never offered to buck, kick, ANYTHING since I've had him. I think the poor thing just had a bad rep.

    Now, I've talked to a few people and I would really like to free or half lease him while I go back to school. I feel like his old owner will find out eventually, and she is really a dear friend of mine.. I just don't know how to handle her 'black beauty syndrome', but I feel like I'm obligated to tell her because she would probably find his advertisement on FB.

    How would you handle this? Should I try to be secretive about it? She has no rights to the horse.. But we do still work together professionally sometimes, so I don't want to ruin any friendships.

    PS. Sorry in advance for misspellings and grammar. I'm on my phone and I have clumsy thumbs.
    www.thetexasequestrian.com

  • #2
    I don't think I would tell her, because its not her concern, but if it comes up, or she found out, just say "Yes! He's doing so fantastic, I don't want his work to stop while I'm away/whatever." Tell her you're looking for an experienced english rider who can continue his high level of training. If she starts in with the "but he bucks" be very dissmissive. Say he has never ever done that since you've had him. Tell her you've treated his "arthritis" and he's very comfortable doing the kind of work you've been asking of him. If she persists, tell her you're getting a young kid who can bounce. If she persists, tell her you have insurance on him. If she persisits, change the subject. If she persists, just smile and look at her and say "I don't know what to tell you, but you have to respect that I have the horse's best interest at heart. If you can't, I don't know what to tell you."
    My warmbloods have actually drunk mulled wine in the past. Not today though. A drunk warmblood is a surly warmblood. - WildandWickedWarmbloods

    Comment


    • #3
      This "I don't know what to tell you, but you have to respect that I have the horse's best interest at heart. If you can't, I don't know what to tell you."


      Comment


      • #4
        Originally posted by Belmont View Post
        I'm going back to school + working full time, and I'm not going to have the time my horse needs or the time BO wants me to be at the barn. I work for BO part time to cover some board. So I want to put my horse up for free lease.

        I told his old owner, who gave the horse to me for free, that I wanted to free lease him one time and she flipped. Going on and on about how the horse is going to kill someone else, and I'm the only one that can ride it. He only loves me, etc..

        The horse I guess used to buck sometimes when they were roping off him or dragging Bulls of him. After getting him and letting him have time to CHILL three years ago, I sort of restarted him English and took my time with him. Then I got extensive vet work done on him, only to find out he had some old injuries that were probably pretty painful when they occurred, and could have been aggravated while dragging Bulls or cows. Though, I don't understand why they wouldn't aggravate when jumping?

        He is a super kind soul. He is now advanced beyond me, and without the time he needs, I fear he is just going to waste away. I've put kids on him on the lunge line, but off the lunge line he is a little hotter and more sensitive. Has never offered to buck, kick, ANYTHING since I've had him. I think the poor thing just had a bad rep.

        Now, I've talked to a few people and I would really like to free or half lease him while I go back to school. I feel like his old owner will find out eventually, and she is really a dear friend of mine.. I just don't know how to handle her 'black beauty syndrome', but I feel like I'm obligated to tell her because she would probably find his advertisement on FB.

        How would you handle this? Should I try to be secretive about it? She has no rights to the horse.. But we do still work together professionally sometimes, so I don't want to ruin any friendships.

        PS. Sorry in advance for misspellings and grammar. I'm on my phone and I have clumsy thumbs.
        The price of the horse is not relevant, as you were given the horse with (I assume) no stipulations. It's a lease (onsite), you are not euthanizing the horse for crying out loud.

        Clearly, you have the horse's best interest in mind, as well as yours and the BOs.

        *I* would not make it an issue with your friend, bring it up etc. Not because you are being sneaky, but because you don't owe anyone an explanation. I don't tell my horse's old owner when I change a bit, girth or paddock.

        If/when it comes up, a simple "X is riding him and they get along famously. He is so happy to be in continuous work."

        I realize that she is your friend so it is more awkward but you are trying to do right by all parties involved. Don't be defensive but stand firm.

        Good luck.

        ETA- congratulations on pursuing continued education while continuing working. It can be very stressful. I applaud you.
        Come to the dark side, we have cookies

        Comment


        • #5
          The first thing I would suggest doing, in your own best interest, is to put some liability insurance on this horse before leasing him to anyone. He may be fine, but if something goes wrong you don't want to be on the receiving end of the bills, etc. Insurance companies are making no bones about going after horse owners and BO's to recoup medical expenses.

          I would suggest starting with a partial on-site lease, stipulating that the rider must take regular lessons at the barn throughout the partial lease. If it is a good match, then you could expand it to a full free lease. This way you have some controls put in place to protect your horse from yahoos, and give your friend peace of mind.

          Good luck with your horse and with school/work, etc.
          "The difference between genius and stupidity is that genius has its limits." Albert Einstein

          http://s1098.photobucket.com/albums/...2011%20Photos/

          Comment

          • Original Poster

            #6
            Originally posted by Chief2 View Post
            The first thing I would suggest doing, in your own best interest, is to put some liability insurance on this horse before leasing him to anyone. He may be fine, but if something goes wrong you don't want to be on the receiving end of the bills, etc. Insurance companies are making no bones about going after horse owners and BO's to recoup medical expenses.

            I would suggest starting with a partial on-site lease, stipulating that the rider must take regular lessons at the barn throughout the partial lease. If it is a good match, then you could expand it to a full free lease. This way you have some controls put in place to protect your horse from yahoos, and give your friend peace of mind.

            Good luck with your horse and with school/work, etc.
            Thanks. I didn't mention it because I didn't think to, but the horse will be insured.

            I love my friend dearly, like family, she is just a bull dog, and I'm more of a submissive lap dog. She gave the horse to me saying 'make a lot of money on him'. Yet, she's had me back out of a sale and two previous leases with this horse, because I'm afraid of breaking ties with her. She has done so much for me career wise..

            I want to advertise him on TSN/Texas Sporthorse Market, but they are public groups and I can see the screen shots and text messages coming, if I do that. Right now I have him on CL and a few other horse websites. I feel like FB is the best place, since I don't have the connections now. I've seriously considered making a weird alternative FB just to market him, but that would also look creepy to possible leasers.

            I'm very open with leaser's about the horse and any of his problems, past, etc. I'm the leasee that likes to throw money towards shows, supps, etc. I just want my horse and my leaser and all parties (including old owner) to feel happy and confident.

            Thanks for all the advice so far, it's really helpful. I'm going to try to avoid telling her, but if I have to I will use some of your awesome lines.
            www.thetexasequestrian.com

            Comment


            • #7
              Sounds like she has your number ... but you will have to decide whether it is worth it for you and the horse to stand up to her. A good friend understands your needs. If she's like family, she needs to understand that you are competent and respect your decisions.

              Don't let her be a bully -- you have a right to do what you like with this horse, if he is yours free and clear. If you lose her friendship over it, what kind of friendship was it, really?

              Comment


              • #8
                Sometimes, we outgrow our friends. We get enough experience in life, and enough of our own goals that when they don't mesh with those of our "friend's" any more, we find ourselves making a choice as to whether or not its worthwile to maintain the friendship.
                My warmbloods have actually drunk mulled wine in the past. Not today though. A drunk warmblood is a surly warmblood. - WildandWickedWarmbloods

                Comment


                • #9
                  Originally posted by Belmont View Post
                  I'm going back to school + working full time, and I'm not going to have the time my horse needs or the time BO wants me to be at the barn. I work for BO part time to cover some board. So I want to put my horse up for free lease.

                  I told his old owner, who gave the horse to me for free, that I wanted to free lease him one time and she flipped. Going on and on about how the horse is going to kill someone else, and I'm the only one that can ride it. He only loves me, etc..

                  The horse I guess used to buck sometimes when they were roping off him or dragging Bulls of him. After getting him and letting him have time to CHILL three years ago, I sort of restarted him English and took my time with him. Then I got extensive vet work done on him, only to find out he had some old injuries that were probably pretty painful when they occurred, and could have been aggravated while dragging Bulls or cows. Though, I don't understand why they wouldn't aggravate when jumping?

                  He is a super kind soul. He is now advanced beyond me, and without the time he needs, I fear he is just going to waste away. I've put kids on him on the lunge line, but off the lunge line he is a little hotter and more sensitive. Has never offered to buck, kick, ANYTHING since I've had him. I think the poor thing just had a bad rep.

                  Now, I've talked to a few people and I would really like to free or half lease him while I go back to school. I feel like his old owner will find out eventually, and she is really a dear friend of mine.. I just don't know how to handle her 'black beauty syndrome', but I feel like I'm obligated to tell her because she would probably find his advertisement on FB.

                  How would you handle this? Should I try to be secretive about it? She has no rights to the horse.. But we do still work together professionally sometimes, so I don't want to ruin any friendships.

                  PS. Sorry in advance for misspellings and grammar. I'm on my phone and I have clumsy thumbs.
                  From the day your name appeared on the Bill of Sale, he's your horse to do with as you please. I would not inform her, engage with her, let alone ask her permission to lease the horse to a rider you and your BO deem suitable. It's simply none of her business. You can say something like this:

                  "Thank you. You've made your opinion known, and it's been taken into consideration. However, this is a very different horse now than when you knew him, and the people who know him best NOW are most qualified to make his decisions."

                  Comment


                  • #10
                    Sometimes you can't please everyone....
                    Draumr Hesta Farm
                    "Wenn Du denkst es geht nicht mehr, kommt von irgendwo ein kleines Licht daher"
                    Member of the COTH Ignorant Disrepectful F-bombs!*- 2Dogs Farm

                    Comment


                    • #11
                      I'm going to play the Devil's Advocate here, and suggest that a horse given to you for free is rather different than a horse bought outright.

                      I, personally, wouldn't feel comfortable sneaking around. If it was me, I'd bite the bullet (or possibly have a stiff drink!) and have a frank discussion with the ex-owner. I'd explain that the current arrangement just isn't working out, and that it's time to make a new plan.

                      Scary, yes, but more honorable, I think.

                      Comment


                      • #12
                        Seems to me if she "won't let" you sell or lease him, then she needs to take him back and he can be her problem to feed, house, and exercise again.

                        Comment


                        • #13
                          Originally posted by Chief2 View Post
                          The first thing I would suggest doing, in your own best interest, is to put some liability insurance on this horse before leasing him to anyone. He may be fine, but if something goes wrong you don't want to be on the receiving end of the bills, etc. Insurance companies are making no bones about going after horse owners and BO's to recoup medical expenses.

                          I would suggest starting with a partial on-site lease, stipulating that the rider must take regular lessons at the barn throughout the partial lease. If it is a good match, then you could expand it to a full free lease. This way you have some controls put in place to protect your horse from yahoos, and give your friend peace of mind.

                          Good luck with your horse and with school/work, etc.
                          Not to hijack the thread, but I've always been under the impression that you couldn't sue in Texas for injuries sustained by or during equine activities due to the inherent risk. I know it was challenged in the Supreme Court recently, and I think they decided on a pretty broad reading of it. Somebody tell me if I'm wrong.


                          Either way, probably good to insure the horse.
                          "Je suis Pony Owner."

                          Comment


                          • #14
                            Originally posted by saje View Post
                            Seems to me if she "won't let" you sell or lease him, then she needs to take him back and he can be her problem to feed, house, and exercise again.
                            One could put it this way, I guess.

                            I'd put it the other way round, though: if somebody accepts a free horse on certain conditions, and one can no longer meet those conditions, then I think the decent thing to do is to at least offer to give the horse back so that the original owner can sell or give it to somebody who is able to meet them.

                            Sneaking around and lying to the giver seems very cheesy to me, and I'm actually kind of surprised that everybody's recommending this strategy.

                            Comment

                            • Original Poster

                              #15
                              Originally posted by Red Barn View Post
                              One could put it this way, I guess.

                              I'd put it the other way round, though: if somebody accepts a free horse on certain conditions, and one can no longer meet those conditions, then I think the decent thing to do is to at least offer to give the horse back so that the original owner can sell or give it to somebody who is able to meet them.

                              Sneaking around and lying to the giver seems very cheesy to me, and I'm actually kind of surprised that everybody's recommending this strategy.
                              I never said I couldn't feed, house, or take care of him. I would rather just see him actually put to work than sitting in a pasture, doing nothing for a year to year and a half. IF I can't find someone, then that is what he will do. He will get shoes pulled and thrown out to pasture. That's a really silly assumption to make just because I want to free lease him. I stay at the boarding barn I am at (working for BO) because I enjoy the small scale, NICE facility. I can afford board elsewhere. I can afford his vet, farrier, etc. I can afford him.

                              The old owner won't want the horse back. She gave it to me because her husband hated him, and he has said on multiple occasions he would rather see it shot than on his property.. Plus, we are now halfway across the country from each other.

                              I adore him (the horse). I adore them (old owners). There is going to be no way around telling her, unfortunately. So, now I am just going to come up with HOW to tell her politely and keep the friendship. She does have my number, but that is also just her personality. She has helped me A LOT, given me A LOT (more than a horse), and I feel like I owe her a lot. She will probably eventually understand. She is just high emotion.. So it may take a while.

                              Plus, I have a month or two to find him a good leaser, if I can.
                              www.thetexasequestrian.com

                              Comment


                              • #16
                                I didn't say you couldn't afford him.

                                I said that it appears that the woman who gave you the horse did so on the condition that you and you alone ride him.

                                Is that not so?

                                Comment


                                • #17
                                  Originally posted by Red Barn View Post
                                  One could put it this way, I guess.

                                  I'd put it the other way round, though: if somebody accepts a free horse on certain conditions, and one can no longer meet those conditions, then I think the decent thing to do is to at least offer to give the horse back so that the original owner can sell or give it to somebody who is able to meet them.

                                  Sneaking around and lying to the giver seems very cheesy to me, and I'm actually kind of surprised that everybody's recommending this strategy.
                                  I don't see where anyone is telling the OP to sneak around or lie. They are saying the previous owner is the previous owner and has zero say in, or responsibility for, what happens with the horse now.

                                  I don't see where the OP has said anything about any conditions (other than 'make a lot of money on him') she agreed to when she took the horse. If it was the "forever home" nonsense, then the previous owner needs to look in the mirror because she didn't keep him forever. Once you relinquish ownership, it's gone.
                                  Visit my Spoonflower shop

                                  Comment


                                  • #18
                                    Originally posted by Belmont View Post
                                    I told his old owner, who gave the horse to me for free, that I wanted to free lease him one time and she flipped. Going on and on about how the horse is going to kill someone else, and I'm the only one that can ride it. He only loves me, etc..
                                    Originally posted by Red Barn View Post
                                    I didn't say you couldn't afford him.

                                    I said that it appears that the woman who gave you the horse did so on the condition that you and you alone ride him.

                                    Is that not so?
                                    That would be the Black Beauty Syndrome that the OP mentioned in the title of her post.

                                    Previous owners says she can't let anyone else ride him because he wuuvvs her & her alone.
                                    Visit my Spoonflower shop

                                    Comment


                                    • #19
                                      Originally posted by Red Barn View Post
                                      I didn't say you couldn't afford him.

                                      I said that it appears that the woman who gave you the horse did so on the condition that you and you alone ride him.

                                      Is that not so?
                                      Ehhhh. I'm of the opinion that once your name is on the papers, you are the legal owner of the horse and can do what you want with it- regardless of "conditions". The fact is, if you sell or give a horse away, you are giving up the right to have any say over its future. Now if this was a free lease, it'd be a different story.

                                      Belmont- put the ads up, find a leaser. If the old owner calls to harass you about it, just act like you didn't think it was a big deal nor any of her business, so you didn't tell her.
                                      "Je suis Pony Owner."

                                      Comment


                                      • #20
                                        Well, if the previous owner had really given the horse away free and clear and without conditions, then there'd be nothing to discuss, would there?

                                        Originally posted by The OP
                                        I told his old owner, who gave the horse to me for free, that I wanted to free lease him one time and she flipped. Going on and on about how the horse is going to kill someone else, and I'm the only one that can ride it. He only loves me, etc..
                                        If someone said these things to me about a horse given as a gift, I'd either offer to give him back, offer to buy him outright, or try to hash it out in a frank and honest discussion of all the possible alternatives.

                                        Is that really so bizarre? I mean, this person is supposedly a benefactor and friend, no?



                                        Originally posted by Red Mares
                                        That would be the Black Beauty Syndrome that the OP mentioned in the title of her post.

                                        Previous owners says she can't let anyone else ride him because he wuuvvs her & her alone.
                                        Doesn't matter what you call it, or even if the objection makes sense. If the OP agreed to this and the person is a friend, than I think she should be honest about it, even if that happens to be inconvenient.

                                        Comment

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