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Colic surgery and age- should I keep insuring?

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  • Colic surgery and age- should I keep insuring?

    Hi all,

    Got an email from my insurance rep that my 19yo's coverage is due for renewal in 2 weeks- and this will be his last one.
    He is semi-retired but has mortality and major med. I do not see them renewing his mortality- which would mean switching providers, as his won't insure Major Med w/o mortality over $15k, which would mean a new provider, which at 19, ain't happening.
    Even if they did renew him, it would be a $4k+ bill for the year.

    My thought is to self-insure from here on out. But I'm playing with the idea of mixing up his supplements and getting him on Colicare from Smartpak, which would be a nice cushion (I have more than enough for an emergency colic surgery in an emergency fund, but a $7500 reimbursement would be nice!)

    In the decade+ that I've had him, he's had one instance where we thought he may be colicky- it was about 8 months ago. Didn't call the vet, but the BM was worried enough to get up every two hours and watch him- he ended up being fine.

    Would he even be eligible for colic surgery, should he need it, at age 19 or older? The Senior Complete Ultra (or whatever it's called) from SP isn't cheap, so I'm wondering if it's worth it to put him on that, because he may not even be eligible for surgery at his age.

    Thanks!

  • #2
    What about putting him on just the tummy supplement alone? I think the most basic version that gets you on Colicare runs around $40 give or take a few $ depending on whether you get powder or pellets.

    Comment


    • #3
      I don't want to be "that" person. But at 19, I wouldn't even consider putting my horse through surgery, let alone colic surgery. That's of course, MY opinion, and everyone has their own. I just can't justify it...
      “Working horses is a little like being married. Sometimes you need to adjust and change your plan.”

      Comment


      • #4
        I have a mare that will be 23 in May and up until I put her outside 24/7 (2 years ago) she was a chronic colicker (sp>?lol). I got her at 14 and she had her first bout around 15 and the from there on it just continued, usually in the spring and fall with the changing weather. Hers was generally always gas colic but I had come to the conclusion around the age of 18 that if she had a bad enough attack and one that was more then gas that I didn't think it would be fair to her to put her through colic surgery because of her age and because it's not 100% effect and I believe can make them prone to future episodes (someone can correct me if I'm wrong on that).

        That being said, if we had the Colicare in Canada when I got her at 14 I probably would have gotten it at least for the first couple years that I had her just to have but likely would've pulled it off around the 18-20 mark.

        Comment


        • #5
          Originally posted by Pictob View Post
          I have a mare that will be 23 in May and up until I put her outside 24/7 (2 years ago) she was a chronic colicker (sp>?lol). I got her at 14 and she had her first bout around 15 and the from there on it just continued, usually in the spring and fall with the changing weather. Hers was generally always gas colic but I had come to the conclusion around the age of 18 that if she had a bad enough attack and one that was more then gas that I didn't think it would be fair to her to put her through colic surgery because of her age and because it's not 100% effect and I believe can make them prone to future episodes (someone can correct me if I'm wrong on that).

          That being said, if we had the Colicare in Canada when I got her at 14 I probably would have gotten it at least for the first couple years that I had her just to have but likely would've pulled it off around the 18-20 mark.
          My exact reasoning as well.

          Adding on the colicare benefits from smartpak--make sure it's cost effective. you spoke about self insuring. Add up the amount you'd be spending on their supplements, vs the amount **UP TO** that they'd give, and see if it really makes it worth the hassle. Nothing in those supplements isn't available in other cheaper forms, so if you're buying for the ingredients, find something else, but if you're buying for the insurance, just make sure you're not throwing away money that you could be putting in a savings account earning interest on to pay for the same medical bill.
          “Working horses is a little like being married. Sometimes you need to adjust and change your plan.”

          Comment

          • Original Poster

            #6
            Originally posted by SnicklefritzG View Post
            What about putting him on just the tummy supplement alone? I think the most basic version that gets you on Colicare runs around $40 give or take a few $ depending on whether you get powder or pellets.
            My reasoning with that is that he's already on their joint supplement, and a separate hoof supplement, and an electrolyte- so going on the complete one would be about $1.20 cheaper a month than just adding the tummy supplement.
            The only thing 'getting' me about the cost is that $40 is more than I spend on all supplements for the horse I have in work!

            The cost of supplement vs. putting the money in an emergency fund is valid! But the additional $40/month, is under $500/year. I already have a very, very low 5-figure emergency fund for this guy in place, so the extra $500/year won't make a huge difference in the care I'm able to give him (does that make sense? it does in my head, but maybe not written out!)

            Thank you for those who responded in regards to age and surgery- I've never had a horse this old, nor have I owned or leased one with colic issues, or one that needed colic surgery.

            Out of curiosity, if this horse was still in local-competition-ready shape, would that change your mind?
            Also, what age would be your 'cut-off' for surgery, no matter the circumstances?
            I know there is no right answer to these questions, I am just curious- thanks!

            Comment


            • #7
              Originally posted by One Two Three View Post
              I don't want to be "that" person. But at 19, I wouldn't even consider putting my horse through surgery, let alone colic surgery. That's of course, MY opinion, and everyone has their own. I just can't justify it...
              My mare's in her 20's. I travel a lot, so my directions are very clear - she is not a surgical candidate. I think at some point you really have to take a hard look and make that decision (and it's better made ahead of time, since she had a bad colic episone 2 yrs ago and the vet thought she'd either need to go for surgery, or be PTS; thankfully it resolved eventually with a lot of work from the vet, but I wouldn't have wanted to be making the decision in the heat of the moment).
              Proud Member Of The Lady Mafia

              Comment


              • #8
                My cut off date for surgery is 16. If the horse is in full fledged show mode at 16, circumstances may vary, but, I like to have THEIR best interest in my mind, not how many shows I can get out of them post surgery, or how badly I want them to still be around. Statistically I just can't justify to myself or to anyone else how putting a 16 year old through an invasive surgery is the right move. There is a retiree at my barn, 18, blew two suspensories in the last 6 years, and had TWO major colic surgeries. He started dropping tons of weight and looked deathly this winter (we're in Florida, it wasn't the cold). Come to find out that his spleen is completely hardened and he has late stage cancer. The vet said most likely if he had the several feet of his intestines that were removed during the colic surgeries, he may very well last a bit longer, and be able to absorb more nutrients to sustain his body. He looks like hell but he's still eating and still fighting, and not in pain. Thankfully the owner wised up and decided that it's not fair to put him through any more surgeries, no matter how much money she has to spend on him (a lot).

                Glad to see you have an emergency fund set up for him, and if you're saving money by bunching the supplement together, go for it. Some people find that $500 makes or breaks them, and would rather put that in an account for a rainy day. I feed other supplements that I have faith in, but if I were already feeding smarpak supps, it would be a valid idea, so it may work well for you.

                It's a tough call, and an even tougher subject when quality vs quantity of life come into play.
                “Working horses is a little like being married. Sometimes you need to adjust and change your plan.”

                Comment


                • #9
                  OP, one thing to consider is how much control the insurance company would have over your horse's treatment in the event of a medical issue. In some cases they go along with what the vet and the owner want to do. In other cases, they are very adamant about pursuing a certain course of action or telling you wht they will and will not cover regardless of whether it happens to be in the best interest of the horse. Sometimes their decisions are financial in nature.

                  My recommendation would be to run the numbers and decide how much you would feel comfortable paying out of pocket if something serious were to happen. Then see what puts you ahead, whether it is paying for insurance, doing the smartpak colicare thing, or putting money away each year.

                  I know more than a few people who "self insure" by putting away a certain amount of money each year so that if something happens they can decide with their vet what to do and not be beholden to the insurance company.

                  Comment


                  • #10
                    Our former neighbors' 19 year old did well after colic surgery. My equine vet daughter says she would have colic surgery on her 20 year old if he needs it. Our 27 year old has a lot of health issues and would not have colic surgery.

                    A lot depends on the baseline health of the horse, as well as how easily you can care for the horse after surgery. Keeping a large, active, horse on postoperative stall rest is not easy.

                    Comment


                    • #11
                      My rule that my vet, family and BO know for my 20yr old is do whatever you have to, as long as he doesn't leave the farm. The second the vet feels the colic or whatever is enough we need to ship in somewhere he gets put down. In my case, he's a horrible horse to rehab and is not cooperative having time off. He has been out of work once in his life due to a minor injury, no stall rest, just no work, and he was miserable. He likes to be part of the action, and I think putting him through anything that had a long recovery period would really age him, and be tough on him mentally and physically.

                      Comment


                      • #12
                        Originally posted by One Two Three View Post
                        I don't want to be "that" person. But at 19, I wouldn't even consider putting my horse through surgery, let alone colic surgery. That's of course, MY opinion, and everyone has their own. I just can't justify it...
                        Same here. I wouldn't insure a 19 yr old especially with a $4K bill just for the policy. Better off banking the money and using it as an emergency fund. I've seen plenty of older horses go through colic surgery and I just couldn't do that to my mare (who is now 16 and not insured - I didn't renew due to the expense and what I could get for coverage - I have an emergency fund instead).
                        "When a horse greets you with a nicker & regards you with a large & liquid eye, the question of where you want to be & what you want to do has been answered." CANTER New England

                        Comment


                        • #13
                          Originally posted by roamingnome View Post
                          Got an email from my insurance rep that my 19yo's coverage is due for renewal in 2 weeks- and this will be his last one.
                          He is semi-retired but has mortality and major med. I do not see them renewing his mortality- which would mean switching providers, as his won't insure Major Med w/o mortality over $15k, which would mean a new provider, which at 19, ain't happening. Even if they did renew him, it would be a $4k+ bill for the year.
                          My guy is turning 19 this year as well. I dropped his insurance coverage last year or the year before after realizing how much the premiums had gone up since his mid-teens (they weren't anywhere near $4,000 yet but his mortality value was hugely underestimated too). Like you, I'm fortunate to be able to self-insure instead. That seems like a sensible route to me.

                          You might ask your vet but I think whether the horse is a surgical candidate or not depends a lot on his condition. My horse is very healthy so I think he still would be, but of course my decision would depend on what his quality of life would be like during recovery and afterwards. He has given me 150% for our almost-15 years together so it's only fair I consider his needs and comfort above my own.

                          If colic surgery is your main concern, read the Colicare fine print and make sure there aren't any age restrictions. BTW I just got an email from the USDF about a very similar program from Platinum Performance called Ecqo. I haven't done any comparisons but it might be worth looking into.
                          Building and Managing the Small Horse Farm: http://thesmallhorsefarm.blogspot.com

                          Comment


                          • #14
                            Well, I just non-renewed my horse yesterday.

                            I feel a little nervous but relieved, too (it's expensive to keep coverage at his age). He's 18. Thanks to a fungal keratits last fall, I got to make my first claim after 10 years of insuring! After the co-pays, the deductible, after thousands of dollars spent treating that eye, I got back barely enough to cover one of my bills.

                            His renewal was going to be ~$2200. I do not see getting any of that back ever (not that I ever expected that), nor all the money I paid in so it was an "easy" decision (not really).

                            I am switching him to one of the Colicare supplements but will have to wait to enroll him until December since his eye stuff also gave him ulcers and caused mild recurrent colic so he was denied the coverage for now. GG and Succeed fixed up those issues, yay. December will be a year w/out colic symptoms (knock wood) so I'll get him enrolled then.

                            I'm actually also of the mind that if he needs to leave the barn for treatment, he probably isn't getting treated at this stage. Horrible to think but he is a terrible traveler (why we no longer show) and I don't think it would be kind to put him through something like that.
                            ~* Be kind to one another *~

                            Comment

                            • Original Poster

                              #15
                              Originally posted by reefy! View Post
                              Well, I just non-renewed my horse yesterday.

                              I feel a little nervous but relieved, too (it's expensive to keep coverage at his age). He's 18. Thanks to a fungal keratits last fall, I got to make my first claim after 10 years of insuring! After the co-pays, the deductible, after thousands of dollars spent treating that eye, I got back barely enough to cover one of my bills.

                              His renewal was going to be ~$2200. I do not see getting any of that back ever (not that I ever expected that), nor all the money I paid in so it was an "easy" decision (not really).

                              I am switching him to one of the Colicare supplements but will have to wait to enroll him until December since his eye stuff also gave him ulcers and caused mild recurrent colic so he was denied the coverage for now. GG and Succeed fixed up those issues, yay. December will be a year w/out colic symptoms (knock wood) so I'll get him enrolled then.

                              I'm actually also of the mind that if he needs to leave the barn for treatment, he probably isn't getting treated at this stage. Horrible to think but he is a terrible traveler (why we no longer show) and I don't think it would be kind to put him through something like that.
                              Thanks for sharing!

                              My guy is a great traveler, and there is an equine hospital about 25 miles down the road. You wouldn't know he was 19, except for the (growing number of) white hairs! I would of course consider the recovery, he's always been a trooper, but I only have tendon/splint injuries to go off on in regards to his recovery process.
                              Going to read the fine print (or just call) on Colicare, even the peace of mind of a tummy supplement might make me feel better.

                              Comment


                              • #16
                                It's easy to say I won't do a surgery or whatever. I have already said if he gets another eye thing, he's going to become a one-eyed horse! We will not do all that fun again.

                                When push comes to shove, I very likely would decide differently. I can't afford to replace him at his level and he's been my best (and sometimes worst ) buddy for 10 years. I'd do almost anything to keep him around
                                ~* Be kind to one another *~

                                Comment


                                • #17
                                  Having had to take care of a couple senior horses who crashed and burned after colic surgery (1 in particular a 19 y/o Grand Prix showjumper who reminded me of my retiree), I swore I would never put my 20 y/o through surgery.

                                  Now that he's retired, I'll do everything within my power to treat conservatively, but the second he has to go under general anesthesia, I'm euthanizing. It's a tough call to make, but learning about the side effects they can go through even as healthy adults and caring for the bad post-ops watching them just fade away, you get a little jaded and a little more critical in your decisions.

                                  That being said, I cry every time he colics because I think he's going to die. Very logical about other people's pets. Lose it over my own. So... to each their own....
                                  About my horses and my riding:http://krseq.blogspot.com

                                  Comment


                                  • #18
                                    Roamingnome I was in a very similar situation this month when my insurance renewal came out. My mare is 18 and had a colic episode last year which required a 4 day stay i the clinic, but thankfully no surgery. I assumed she would be dropped from the policy the following year because of her age and the colic claim, but to my sunrise they renewed her again with no limitations to her coverage regarding colic. My premium went up slightly because of her age, but certainly not to $4,000.

                                    I debated whether to do renew or just to the colicare route for her, but in the end I dedicded to stick with the insurance. My mare is a terribly picky eater so I'm quite sure I would be throwing my money away on a supplement she would not eat. I'm also reassured that if any other medical issue came up, apart from colic, that there would be funds to cover it.

                                    As for what age to no longer consider surgery, I'm not sure whether my mare would still be a good surgical candidate, but I think it would depend on her health and condition at the time. If she had a mild, persistent colic that needed surgical intervention and was strong and otherwise healthy at the time, it may be an option, versus a really aggressive colic that comes on quickly and has already compromised the strength and condition of my 18 year old horse.

                                    For now, I'm just as happy to have the colic insurance for treatment of a medical colic...which in my experience last year cost me around $4,000. Insurance isn't just for surgery.

                                    Comment


                                    • #19
                                      I would base medical decisions like whether to have colic surgery much more on the health status of the individual horse than on the age. As a very good vet once told me regarding surgery on an aging but very healthy dog, age is not a disease. On my 19 year old who's been retired due to lameness for 6 years, no. If he can't be treated on the farm, it's time. And I made that decision shortly after I retired him at 13.

                                      However, on my healthy, happy, actively competing current ride? If a trusted vet believed there could be a good outcome and a return to full health, absolutely. He's 17 (though he is a low mileage model due to his previous owner discovering boys.)

                                      When his insurance premiums increased dramatically due to age, I substantially reduced his insured value to 5k. My policy now provides mortality, medical/surgical up to 5k, plus an additional $2500 if colic surgery is required. So I have the same dollar amount for colic surgery that SmartPak provides, plus coverage for other medical issues. Costs me much less than the full value quote. I have less coverage, but I still have some, and the difference gets banked in the emergency fund.

                                      Comment


                                      • #20
                                        Originally posted by roamingnome View Post
                                        Thank you for those who responded in regards to age and surgery- I've never had a horse this old, nor have I owned or leased one with colic issues, or one that needed colic surgery.

                                        Out of curiosity, if this horse was still in local-competition-ready shape, would that change your mind?
                                        Also, what age would be your 'cut-off' for surgery, no matter the circumstances?
                                        I know there is no right answer to these questions, I am just curious- thanks!
                                        It's definitely a whole different ball game owning an older horse lol I hadn't put much thought in to when I wouldn't do the surgery until she was about 18 but that was because it hadn't gotten to that point yet. I would say my cut off would have been around 17-18.
                                        I was actually still actively riding and showing her when she was 18 and it would not have changed my mind. I just didn't want her to have to go through a major surgery like that/recovery etc at that age.

                                        As I stated before hers is a gas colic that she suffers from but if you are looking for a good digestive supplement I get one from the UK, costs about $50 with shipping and lasts me about 6 weeks, I love it, has all her minerals/vitamins she needs etc. It's called Haylage Balancer, they also have another one that was highly recommended called Pink Powder. Both are by NAF. Neither of them come with insurance but it took me years of pre/pro-biotics to find one that I felt worked and I won't stop buying this one now!

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