trainer fees in boarding barn, messy situation

[Sparky]

The point your missing is that the person "watching"( very disingenuous) is getting paid to do so, and the BO feels he needs to be paid something for the trainers privilege. He can charge for anything--he can charge you $10 every time you roll your eyes at him. The solution? Find a place where the BO thinks like you. But don't tell this guy how to run his business. For what it's worth, I have a barn and I don't charge anybody's trainer to use it. We BO's simply do what's necessary for our bottom line.

[atr]

My barn owner charges us a fee for an outside trainer. It's not a lot, but it does mean she harrows the arena for us and I feel entirely free to move jumps if they are in my way for a dressage lesson. And she doesn't schedule her lessons at the same time as ours.

As far as staying at a nice facility with a nutty owner. God, no. Absolutely not worth it. I'd rather compromise a bit and not be treading on eggshells the entire time.

[SnicklefritzG]

The point your missing is that the person "watching"( very disingenuous) is getting paid to do so, and the BO feels he needs to be paid something for the trainers privilege. He can charge for anything--he can charge you $10 every time you roll your eyes at him. The solution? Find a place where the BO thinks like you. But don't tell this guy how to run his business. For what it's worth, I have a barn and I don't charge anybody's trainer to use it. We BO's simply do what's necessary for our bottom line.

that guy's barn, that guy's rules, but trouble is bound to happen when a non horse person tries to run a boarding facility.

[theotherdasher]

I don't know how it works for everyone with their own farm liability insurance. If I allow an outside trainer to come to my facility to give lessons I have to pay an additional premium. The outside trainer is still required to carry their own liability insurance with my farm listed on their policy. So it is costing me money for the outside trainer to step foot on my property and I have no way to re-coop that expense unless I charge an additional fee. Last time i looked the fee was somewhere in the neighborhood of $250 per year.

[trubandloki]

A ring fee might be justified if the farm had an on-site trainer who the boarder decided not to use and instead brought someone else in. Most places though don't allow outside trainers if they already have one in-house.

Well yes and your point makes two reasons why a barn owner is justified in charging a ring fee.
First one being if there was an in house trainer the board would probably be more because the barn had that same in house trainer, instead of just being a boarding barn they would be a lesson/training/show type barn.
And the second point you made yourself, you are paying for the privilege to board at a place that allows you to use whatever trainer you want. I suppose the BO could simply charge everyone more every month, for that privilege but why not charge the people who use that feature.

[invinoveritas]

The BO doesn't ride or teach, so there wouldn't be scheduling issues for him.

This one time, last fall, the BO saw a negative review of his farm on FB (left by a previous boarder a year before...). BO's response was to take his tractor into the indoor and push the footing into sand dunes and leave it that way for several days.

In mu area. there are ,many BOs like this. Check and see if there is one any better in your area. If so then move on. But you may find that other BOs are as crazy and wacko as this one. Or worse. Good luck.

[Sparky]

Would you charge for a farrier, vet or saddle fitter visit too? I pay way more for the vet or saddle fitter per visit than I do for a lesson. Don't you want a slice of that pie too?

I don't, but once again, if the barn owner felt so inclined, then, yes, of course he could. What part of "It's his place" is so hard to understand? When he finally honks off enough of his boarders, they will leave. Problem solved.

[ben4me]

I board at a barn that is an awesome facility but NOT a show barn. Various riders with various riding interests. No in-house trainer and no fees to boarders for lessons. Non boarders and their trainers each pay $10. I feel this is fair. The indoor is never closed to boarders during lesson but we are obviously asked to respect the lesson.
The issue here seems to be the BO. He does sound unpleasant. I do know that sometimes when I ask for or about something my BO may not be happy but it's usually done when I get there the next time. Remember you may be the 10th request that day! I appreciate the great care and my BO truly enjoys watching us ride! That being said...I would and have run like hell from a BO who tries to intimidate! And word spreads in the horse world.

[incognitoalter]

poof

[BeeHoney]

I don't understand the vitriol--if you dislike a person and their barn so much, just move and move on! No horses are being held hostage at this facility, right?

I wouldn't touch on this point except that on one hand the BO is being criticized for charging too much, and on the other for not having the funds to maintain and improve the facility. You can't have it both ways.

Many boarding businesses that don't charge enough end up going through what this barn is facing--a really upset BO who realizes their business is losing money and a facility that has gradually gotten to the point where it needs major repairs but because boarding prices have been so low there is no money saved up for them.

[Coanteen]

Houseguests are your students then?

[RockinHorse]

A couple of things jump out at me.

1) As a freelance trainer that just comes in to give lessons, you appear to be way too invested in the barn drama. If I were a BO, I would have reservations about letting you earn money at my expense.
2) "He has been charging too little for board. He should have charged more from the get go as he was advised" and yet when he tried to implement fees that would impact only people using certain things (ability to bring in external trainers) everyone is up in arms. Would it make everyone happier if he raised board by $100 to everyone?
3) If the place is really that bad, why do you want your name associated with it by teaching there?
4) if the place is really that bad, people should move, even if they have to drive to a less convenient location farther away.

[whimsycat]

thanks coth for all your wise help. wish me luck and send me xanax

[Clair2014]

Good luck!

For what it's worth, I teach exclusively out of other people's barns. Some have fees, some don't but I don't get involved in any of it and I never pay anything to the barn owners directly. I provide my proof of insurance when asked and otherwise say out of it. It's up to my students to reserve arena times for their lessons and cover fees associated with having me come to the barn to teach - Much like a veterinarian sets up an appointment with their client and it's up to the client to cover all the other details.

My lesson prices are fixed and depend on the length of the lesson and the distance of travel and that's it. After many years of teaching and at times being much more involved than I am now, I have found this to be the best solution. I have too much invested into time, travel, and scheduling to keep track of different barn's fees and requirements. All this being said, charging a fee to the boarder and the trainer is excessive and I would likely not teach at a barn like that.

I hope you can sort this situation out. It sounds like a tough one!

[RockinHorse]

Good luck!

For what it's worth, I teach exclusively out of other people's barns. Some have fees, some don't but I don't get involved in any of it and I never pay anything to the barn owners directly. I provide my proof of insurance when asked and otherwise say out of it. It's up to my students to reserve arena times for their lessons and cover fees associated with having me come to the barn to teach - Much like a veterinarian sets up an appointment with their client and it's up to the client to cover all the other details.

My lesson prices are fixed and depend on the length of the lesson and the distance of travel and that's it. After many years of teaching and at times being much more involved than I am now, I have found this to be the best solution. I have too much invested into time, travel, and scheduling to keep track of different barn's fees and requirements. All this being said, charging a fee to the boarder and the trainer is excessive and I would likely not teach at a barn like that.

I hope you can sort this situation out. It sounds like a tough one!

Clair2014, you sound like someone that BOs who allow outside trainers, would love to have come teach

[cherham]

I operate a small boarding barn. There is no resident trainer here. My boarders each have their own trainers (3 in total) that come here once or twice a week to coach them. We have a simple rule that the arena is open to everyone at all times (no exclusive use) for the lesson times. We keep a white board where all the lesson date and times are clearly marked. The boarders are sensible and try to respect each other times.......it has worked out very well for us. We do not charge any trainers a "ring fee" nor would we charge any of our boarders for the privledge of having a lesson here. This seems a little bit like a money grab on the BO's part to me.

[toady123]

I think there are two separate issues:

1) Charging for lessons
As others have noted, this is not uncommon or unreasonable. Having someone comes in means more liability, more time with the lights on, the rings in use etc. Charging for this service allows the BO to recoup. I do know not all places do it (and there are those who prefer this), however you do find it out there

2) Owner is nuts
This is the deal breaker for me. If he was non horsey and bought a horse farm to make money he has likely had his eyes opened very wide (since horse people know there isn't money on boarding...or at least not enough to create a living wage). This fee fiasco is very likely a desperate attempt to create some profit. Additionally, his behavior is erratic and I would not, personally, tolerate it.

[findeight]

The BO here is crazy so who knows what he's thinking. There is no lock on the door or bars and there is always something else out there. Even if only a temporary stop while looking elsewhere. Staying just allows him to keep doing what he is doing. But I don't think FB reviews or this thread are going to resolve a thing. Only face to face communication can do that and no group or petition is going to force a business/property owner do anything. The ONLY thing that will force change is voting with your feet, you stay, you are just allow it to continue. Trainers who disagree with the fees but keep coming are just allowing it to continue.

On the fee for schooling rides? Well, if the person riding is getting paid for riding? It's not unreasonable in a barn that charges for outside trainers getting paid for lessons to expect a cut of schooling ride charges.

Far as the fee for vet, farrier, dentist, saddle fitter, chiro, Equine massage therapist etc? Those are health care providers. Horses benefit physically from their services and some are absolutely require for good health and proper management-some barns required vaccination, worming and annual Coggins as a condition of boarding there. A few even will approach owners about neglected farrier care and give them notice if it does not improve. Hence no added fee for the BO for these essential services from outside providers.

Horses do not NEED to be trained beyond basics (or at all) to be healthy and rider proficiency level is a personal choice. After learning safety and the basics, many riders are fine trail riding once or twice a week without supervision, so are their horses. A person coming onto a commercial property generating personal income performing non essential service like lessons is likely to be asked to pay a fee for the privilege.

Never been in a commercial barn without a resident trainer that did not charge a free lance visiting trainer 10-15. Never been in a commercial barn with a resident trainer that allowed outside trainers, fee or not. Have been in a couple of private facilities that didn't but those were, like, 4 to 6 horses in what was basically somebody's back yard and pretty sure the insurance for it was lacking or completely non exsistent and 20 years or more ago.


If you hate it and the BO, staying or training anyway and paying it just lets it continue? Your choice.

[whimsycat]

thanks for the insight

The $15 per lesson fee, i get it. Was just wondering what was the going rate out there, especially among facilities that don't have trainers at them. My main issue with it, was the sudden and immediate way that they put the fee in place.
That has since been modified to $20 per month per student that the trainer has, which i feel is much more reasonable.
However, trainer has since been told not to come back (again, actually "training privileges have been revoked" lol) and that her meeting with the BO and BM was cancelled (day of) because of "recent event" (one of her students moving their horse that day). Even though the trainer had nothing to do with the move.

Trainer has since decided to say F U and attempt to teach at least a couple of her students at the next door neighbor's arena if that works out. And wave whenever she sees the BO.

[Clair2014]

I wasn't going to comment again but I tend to 'gently' disagree with the statement that training is not a necessary service. In some cases, it probably is not but in many cases it really, really is. Many people are much safer with their horses if they have a good professional working with them regularly and that makes the general barn environment much safer as well. If a barn doesn’t offer a trainer than it seems like a good business move for the facility to allow boarders to use trainers of their choice and not penalize them heavily for doing so. I say that because by doing so the barn will offer a safer environment in general and will look more attractive to people already working with a trainer. Whether or not the facility charges a fee for trainers is at their discretion but it should still be viewed as a necessary service and respected as such.

Maybe it’s because I’m a trainer and see the worst of what’s out there but so many people buy inappropriate horses that are poorly trained and horribly behaved. This is just dangerous for the entire barn environment. No one wants to ride in the arena or on the trails with these people. It is my opinion that people should be encouraged to have professional help and learn to handle their horses properly – for everyone’s safety – not discouraged though hefty fees and statements about training not being necessary. The savvy barn owners I know seem to recognize this. Just my two cents…for whatever it’s worth!