trainer fees in boarding barn, messy situation

[Alagirl]

"huh?

The vet/farrier charges the owner of the horse for the trip to the barn.

The trainer is paying the owner of the barn for the use of the ring, not seeing the similarities."

Yes, the trainer is being charged by the owner of the barn, but he then raises the lesson fee by the same amount, so in essence, the boarder is paying the fee.

That is to be expected, as the cost will always be expressed in the end product. Rising cost will mean rising lesson fees, be it gas or arena fees, or insurance cost.

it's how businesses operate.

[whbar158]

If he would drop the $10/month fee the fee to the trainer for lessons is pretty normal as it is very expensive to have a facility (even if it isn't in the best of shape) and these trainers benefiting from the facility. I am assuming since the OP said it is one of the better facilities in the area that these trainers coming in do not have their own place with the same amenities. So yes they should pay a fee. What I would personally do is since it is $15 per lesson is try to line up some semi private lessons or small group so the cost is split up a bit. As far as the training rides if the trainer can group enough stuff together it should still be worth it or possibly work out a monthly rate or something with the BO. Without knowing details of conversations between trainers and BO it is hard to know if this is the compromise or if they just agreed. He may be unreasonable but I would bet if the trainer and boarders couldn't work something out he would end up losing money since the BO isn't horsey he is doing this for money, if you guys can make it clear that the money will walk away if he doesn't change a few things I would be he would listen better (all the while saying how much you like the place and would hate to leave blah blah blah) Just an idea and of course be ready to leave if it comes to that.

[Coanteen]

He may be unreasonable but I would bet if the trainer and boarders couldn't work something out he would end up losing money since the BO isn't horsey he is doing this for money, if you guys can make it clear that the money will walk away if he doesn't change a few things I would be he would listen better (all the while saying how much you like the place and would hate to leave blah blah blah)

That's it. Unless the man is just off his rocker (in which case the horses should be moved, for their own safety if nothing else), this is a business for him. PO stated that for the facilities and price, it's the best option in the area - I interpret this to mean he's not over-charging on board, given what he offers.

Perhaps he realized that, and figures that he can charge some more. If he's mistaken, boarders who lesson/have trg rides will move to another facility, and he'll lose money. If he's correct - well, even with those fees he might still have the best game in town.

[Nootka]

I'm personally done with the situation, the yelling, the demolition of a fence today, I just wish that this facility could go to better use than the waste it is becoming. so sad

So, Wait.....Wha??? He has demolished a fence now too? Seems he is costing himself money. I would have to leave this mess

[fordtraktor]

Are you sure that you understood the footing thing right? Was the former boarder complaining about the footing on facebook, and then he went and reworked it and got in a mess and it took a few days to fix it?

Contrary to many boarders' beliefs, it is not all sunshine and butterflies being a barn owner and occasionally projects start out just moving something around, and a tractor part breaks or something and boom, what you meant to have done by the time everyone got out that evening takes three days. We do not do it to deliberately ruin your rides, believe you me!!!!!! it sucks just as much if not MORE for us to have to pay $500 and spend three days on something we thought we could fix in three hours. So...perhaps there is more to that than you think. BTDT as a BO. And this is clearly not my barn because I've never had an indoor, but I've had my share of farm messes that have blown out of proportion because that is the farming life. Ask my boarder about a certain set of ditches settling after we put in Nelson waterers.....OMG, chaos for weeks in all the paddocks. Thank God she doesn't think I did that to spite her!

However, if this BO is a ranting and yelling person, there is really no question that you ought to leave. I would be looking immediately. That's not OK, whatever the fees are.

As for the outside fees, my dad runs a similar place ONLY in that he boards horses but doesn't train or teach, and does not charge outside trainer fees because he doesn't provide an on-site trainer. That works well for his client base, and they bring in several different trainers regularly.

[Somantu]

So the questions are - what, if any, fee does a boarding barn without an in-house trainer charge an outside trainer to come teach/ride there?

Basic board in my area ranges from $675 to $900 a month plus 13% HST. My barn has an in-house trainer and a small school. Board increases by $50 monthly if you bring in your own trainer.
However, there is no additional arena fee. So if you lesson 5 days a week vs. once a week, the price remains the same.

What is the best way to approach this situation when the owner of the barn is volatile and his communication style is ranting and yelling?

Thanks for your input!

No matter how good the care; how fabulous the facility; how colourful and fragrant the rainbow coming out of the barn unicorn's a$$, I would never tolerate or engage w/a BO like that.

[Marshfield]

huh?

Alas.
Seems ring fees for trainers are common. I think it's double dipping (and I would expect to have the ring to myself for that time), but what do I know.
If a BO needs that money (and I ahve heard so many justifications why they need it, because a lesson is so much tougher on the footing than a regular ride etc...) just raise your rates.

In the absence of an in-house trainer, to charge for a trainer to come in just seems like price gouging the boarders. They're going to put the same amount of wear and tear on the property and footing whether there's a trainer there or not. And in a barn with other boarders, they're not going to get exclusive use of the ring.

If there's an in house trainer with all the assorted dynamics, then I do understand a fee for an outside trainer.

[TequilaMockingbird]

The prior facility I boarded at began charging the trainers for giving lessons, which was tacked on to the fee charged to the boarder. It was one of the reasons I moved to a barn that didn't charge a fee for lessons.

I realize this situation is not abnormal but I think it's ridiculous to charge me, the boarder, to use facilities I already pay to use. Most of the time my trainer is standing there giving me instruction. I am the one using the facilities, not the trainer. It's no different than charging my farrier for trimming my horse or a vet for doing a farm call. Just because professional is physically present on the property doesn't mean it's reasonable to charge someone a fee. I might understand charging the trainer something if they were essentially setting up a training business based out of a facility they don't own, like a monthly fee of $50-$100 depending on how many clients there are. Or if you're trailering in to barn that you don't board at. But a per lesson fee is ridiculous.

[Coanteen]

In the absence of an in-house trainer, to charge for a trainer to come in just seems like price gouging the boarders. They're going to put the same amount of wear and tear on the property and footing whether there's a trainer there or not.

Not if they "can't/won't" ride their own horses but get multiple training rides per week, as Houseguest stated

All in all, while I've been lucky to have been in barns where the outside trainer isn't charged (although for all I know there was some cost bundled into the overall price of board; no per-lesson fee though AFAIK), charging outside trainers is, if not the standard, at least a common occurrence in the boarding world. Just as trainers then shifting the fee to the student is common. So that in itself doesn't make the BO sucky.

The rest of the situation is concerning, and if the BO was a volatile, possibly malicious non-horsey person, I'd move my horse. Best facility-for-the-price-in-the-area or no.

[Alagirl]

In the absence of an in-house trainer, to charge for a trainer to come in just seems like price gouging the boarders. They're going to put the same amount of wear and tear on the property and footing whether there's a trainer there or not. And in a barn with other boarders, they're not going to get exclusive use of the ring.

If there's an in house trainer with all the assorted dynamics, then I do understand a fee for an outside trainer.

I can't say I disagree.
Well, even the in-house trainer does not warrant extra fees for the use of the facilities I already pay for.

But that's just my opinion. BOs can set their rates as they please.

[Sparky]

[QUOTE

I realize this situation is not abnormal but I think it's ridiculous to charge me, the boarder, to use facilities I already pay to use. Most of the time my trainer is standing there giving me instruction. I am the one using the facilities, not the trainer. [/QUOTE]

Wait…what? The trainer is standing in the BO's indoor giving you a lesson, and you don't think she's using the facility?

[trubandloki]

I think there are two very different topics here.

The first topic is something along the lines of is a $15 fee added to an outside trainer, what we all know they will pass along to the horse owner, typical or out of line.
The second topic is more about should someone stay at a barn with a crazy barn owner just because the place is the best in the area.

First topic - My experience is that a fee per ride is pretty normal, does not matter if the barn has an in house trainer or not. If the barn has an in house trainer is it more likely you will simply not be allowed to have an outside trainer, so the fee does not apply. If you do not want to pay the fee then find a different barn to ride at.
Second topic - If you are willing to deal with a crazy barn owner then that is on you. Turning his craziness into a reason to say it is wrong to charge a fee does not really fly.

[Alagirl]

I realize this situation is not abnormal but I think it's ridiculous to charge me, the boarder, to use facilities I already pay to use. Most of the time my trainer is standing there giving me instruction. I am the one using the facilities, not the trainer.

Wait…what? The trainer is standing in the BO's indoor giving you a lesson, and you don't think she's using the facility?

It's still the same horse using up the same space as it does without the trainer occupying a couple square feet of ground.

[Calamber]

Hey, if he wants to see some negative publicity, turn him on to this thread. Men like him piss me off.

OMG no! Don't let him see this thread, he might just hurt someone.

[Alagirl]

OMG no! Don't let him see this thread, he might just hurt someone.

Barn closure due to BO awaiting trial?

But yes, his behavior is more worrisome than the fees.

[Sparky]

It's still the same horse using up the same space as it does without the trainer occupying a couple square feet of ground.

So the barn owner who spends $$$ to pay his mortgage and taxes, etc., watches a trainer who has no investment in the place, making money from his boarder, in his facility, and you don't think he would have a problem with that? And charging that trainer a % of her lesson to use his indoor makes him a bad guy? Lots of things about the owner, as described by the OP, make him a bad guy, but this is not one of them.

[Alagirl]

So the barn owner who spends $$$ to pay his mortgage and taxes, etc., watches a trainer who has no investment in the place, making money from his boarder, in his facility, and you don't think he would have a problem with that? And charging that trainer a % of her lesson to use his indoor makes him a bad guy? Lots of things about the owner, as described by the OP, make him a bad guy, but this is not one of them.

we go over this time and time again.

The use of the facility the boarder pays for is not increased. It is still the boarder and her horse riding around in the arena.
If she had a satellite link lesson, would you charge her for that as well?
Or video taped herself for later critique?

If you are this worried about making a buck, raise the board rate. Done.
Having access to a trainer of your choosing makes for happy boarders. Having competent (yes, it's not the norm) instruction does make for a safer environment, and as such should profit the over all barn climate.

But of course, you can nickel-and-dime your customers into oblivion, it is your prerogative as barn owner.
Trailer-in fees, yes, I can understand that. Trainer fees? Not really.

It is a kin to double dipping (and increasing the board bill): you make the boarder pay for riding in the arena already, then they are hit with a surcharge, because somebody is watching them.....Like I said, if I had to pay extra, I want exclusive rights, no other people in the arena.

[OverandOnward]

IMO the outside-trainer fee - however much it is, and regardless of who pays it - is reciprocated by the BO/BM having the facilities ready for a good lesson. They don't have to show-prep it, but a little extra effort to be sure the ring is available and the footing is at least decent. Even more so if jumps are involved, being sure they are in the ring and not relocated or in storage somewhere. Ditto dressage letters and rails. Etc.

And, I just saved hauling my horse to work with that particular trainer. Having an outside trainer come in indicates it is someone worth some trouble to work with. I'd haul to that trainer if they couldn't come to me.

A small fee is worthwhile because: The ring won't have some other activity scheduled there at the time of the lesson. The footing won't be torn up, the jumps won't be on the other side of the farm. Other boarders who don't need the ring will be encouraged to take someone else's lesson seriously and ride elsewhere just for that period, as they hope others will do when they lesson.

If the BO/BM does nothing in return for the lesson fee and the place is a mess, then I have a problem with the idea of the fee.

That's how I see it. I've paid my own boarding barn many a modest facility fee for an outside trainer lesson, and was thrilled to work with that trainer and not have to haul to do it. I was happy that the BO/BM actually did schedule the usual work on the ring to happen near the time of the lesson so it would be more fresh, and made sure the jumps were there (even if they did have to be set up / moved, which would have happened anyway).

[SnicklefritzG]

we go over this time and time again.

The use of the facility the boarder pays for is not increased. It is still the boarder and her horse riding around in the arena.
If she had a satellite link lesson, would you charge her for that as well?
Or video taped herself for later critique?

If you are this worried about making a buck, raise the board rate. Done.
Having access to a trainer of your choosing makes for happy boarders. Having competent (yes, it's not the norm) instruction does make for a safer environment, and as such should profit the over all barn climate.

But of course, you can nickel-and-dime your customers into oblivion, it is your prerogative as barn owner.
Trailer-in fees, yes, I can understand that. Trainer fees? Not really.

It is a kin to double dipping (and increasing the board bill): you make the boarder pay for riding in the arena already, then they are hit with a surcharge, because somebody is watching them.....Like I said, if I had to pay extra, I want exclusive rights, no other people in the arena.

Trailer-in fees make a lot of sense because the person coming in puts wear and tear on the facility which they aren't paying board for. The boarders are already there, so they shouldn't have to pay a ring fee.

A ring fee might be justified if the farm had an on-site trainer who the boarder decided not to use and instead brought someone else in. Most places though don't allow outside trainers if they already have one in-house.


I think the BO would do well to drop the ring fee for boarders. I agree with what you said about the fact that allowing outside trainers makes for happier boarders which can in turn attract more people to the facility. Angry rants and nickle-and-diming people is going to do the exact opposite.

[TequilaMockingbird]

So the barn owner who spends $$$ to pay his mortgage and taxes, etc., watches a trainer who has no investment in the place, making money from his boarder, in his facility, and you don't think he would have a problem with that? And charging that trainer a % of her lesson to use his indoor makes him a bad guy? Lots of things about the owner, as described by the OP, make him a bad guy, but this is not one of them.

Would you charge for a farrier, vet or saddle fitter visit too? I pay way more for the vet or saddle fitter per visit than I do for a lesson. Don't you want a slice of that pie too?