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trainer fees in boarding barn, messy situation

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  • #21
    I need to chime in. Said BO does a very poor job maintaining the rings. Footing is subpar to begin with and is very irregularly dragged and almost never watered. Also, the boarders are not asking to reserve the ring for lessons. All can benefit if they choose from the exercises that are set up for the lessons/training rides.

    The BO is also asking for the fee for training rides, and some of the boarders get multiple training rides per week as they don't/can't ride their own horses. As the OP mentioned this is to some degree a safety issue which benefits the BO by reducing his liability exposure.

    Many of the lessons/training rides are in off-peak times. This is a small, multi-discipline facility. Several of the boarders ride rarely (or not at all) or just trail ride. Everyone benefits from having knowledgable horsemen around who can help with behavioral and health issues as well as training.

    As stated before the BO is not a horse person. This might be the best facility in the area but that's not saying much. Still it is not full. Allowing boarders to bring in trainers benefits everyone.

    Comment


    • #22
      Originally posted by BeeHoney View Post
      Charging a fee for outside trainers to use the facilities is very reasonable and normal. $10-$15 per lesson is very typical and certainly nothing out of the ordinary. ...
      I agree, and it's typical for fees assessed to trainers to be passed on to the riders. However I was confused by the fee schedule described - are boarders and trainers both being charged, or just the trainers?

      In any case I also agree that it's crazy for the BO to react at all by how the trainers & riders choose to handle the fee between themselves. Why would the BO care?

      And I also think that the fee means that the BO is at least making an effort to make sure the facilities are up to par for the lessons. I wouldn't expect them to drag the ring before each outside lesson, necessarily, but I would expect the ring to be kept in reasonable condition.

      Also ... if the trainer is just riding the horse and there is no lesson, I don't recall a facilities fee being assessed for that. The idea being that someone is going to ride the horse and it doesn't matter to the BO who rides, as long as they know the owner has authorized the ride.


      Originally posted by whimsycat View Post
      ...
      This one time, last fall, the BO saw a negative review of his farm on FB (left by a previous boarder a year before...). BO's response was to take his tractor into the indoor and push the footing into sand dunes and leave it that way for several days.
      I see a business opportunity for a nice new boarding facility in your area. Sounds like it would empty the current facility almost right away.

      Comment

      • Original Poster

        #23
        The $15 fee also applies to training/exercising horses as well.

        Comment


        • #24
          Originally posted by whimsycat View Post
          I have a situation that I need to consult with you experts about:

          The Boarding barn is in a rural, somewhat geographically isolated area. Its the best facility/price in the area for a lot of folks (indoor arena, turnout options). The owner of the farm bought the farm without any prior horse knowledge 6 years ago and he tends to rant and yell at his boarders, etc., for no good reason. People stay there because of the facility, a lack of other comparable facilities in the area. It has No in-house trainer, no employed trainer or lesson program. There are a few (2-3) local trainers that teach lessons and ride horses there for the boarders weekly and are paid by the boarders.

          First, there was no fee for trainers/lessons from the barn. Last year, a $10/month fee to use a trainer was put into place for the boarders. Recently, the owner put a $15/lesson or training ride fee in place, to be paid by the trainers. The owners are having a lot of pushback from the trainers and boarders about this new fee.

          Of course the trainers told the boarders about the fee and raised their lesson prices by $15, which is a big jump for this area, where the average routine lesson is $35 or $40, with little or no barns charging for outside trainers in the area, especially if they do not have an in-house trainer.

          Then, the owner of the barn caught wind that the trainers told the boarders, and told one of the trainers not to return to the barn (where she has 8 students, been teaching there 8 years). The trainer let the management know about this, and later the trainer gets an email asking her to come to a meeting to discuss the lesson fee situation.

          So the questions are - what, if any, fee does a boarding barn without an in-house trainer charge an outside trainer to come teach/ride there?
          What is the best way to approach this situation when the owner of the barn is volatile and his communication style is ranting and yelling?
          Or should the trainer not even bother to meet with them, let the boarders figure out another way to take lessons off property or move their horses to another farm?

          Thanks for your input!
          ^^THIS^^ and then..

          Comment


          • #25
            Originally posted by Alternativo View Post
            I need to chime in. Said BO does a very poor job maintaining the rings. Footing is subpar to begin with and is very irregularly dragged and almost never watered. Also, the boarders are not asking to reserve the ring for lessons. All can benefit if they choose from the exercises that are set up for the lessons/training rides.

            The BO is also asking for the fee for training rides, and some of the boarders get multiple training rides per week as they don't/can't ride their own horses. As the OP mentioned this is to some degree a safety issue which benefits the BO by reducing his liability exposure.

            Many of the lessons/training rides are in off-peak times. This is a small, multi-discipline facility. Several of the boarders ride rarely (or not at all) or just trail ride. Everyone benefits from having knowledgable horsemen around who can help with behavioral and health issues as well as training.

            As stated before the BO is not a horse person. This might be the best facility in the area but that's not saying much. Still it is not full. Allowing boarders to bring in trainers benefits everyone.
            ^^THIS?^^ Same barn? Would you be the trainer?

            Sounds like a mess to me. Not one that will be solved by people from the same barn complaining on the same thread though..

            Comment


            • #26
              Originally posted by merrygoround View Post
              My feeling is that you as a boarder are already paying for the use of the fatalities.
              If someone comes in , friend, trainer, to help you and your horse, there should be no extra charge or if so, a nominal one, so long as they carry their own insurance.

              Sounds as though BO has realized that running a boarding operation is not the gold mine he thought it was, and now wants to rectify the situation.

              ~ Enjoying some guac and boxed wine at the Blue Saddle inn. ~

              Originally posted by LauraKY
              I'm sorry, but this has "eau de hoarder" smell all over it.
              HORSING mobile training app

              Comment


              • #27
                My feeling is that you as a boarder are already paying for the use of the fatalities.


                Sorry but that has got to the best freudian slip I have ever seen anywhere!

                Now, to respond to the OP ...

                I second the advice to run the other way screaming. But sounds like none of you have anywhere to run to. Can you trailer out to other barns where these trainers also teach?

                If not, can boarders and trainers get together with management, come up with an arrangement everyone can agree on, and write up a contract so that the owner cannot spring anymore surprise increases on any of you? Maybe good for one year?
                "The single biggest problem in communication is the illusion that it has taken place." -- George Bernard Shaw

                Comment


                • #28
                  Originally posted by skydy View Post
                  ^^THIS?^^ Same barn? Would you be the trainer?

                  Sounds like a mess to me. Not one that will be solved by people from the same barn complaining on the same thread though..
                  Yes. Same barn though not the trainer just someone aware of the situation. I agree that it will probably not resolve the issues just felt that people responding should have a little more background about the circumstances.

                  Comment


                  • #29
                    Originally posted by Alternativo View Post
                    Yes. Same barn though not the trainer just someone aware of the situation. I agree that it will probably not resolve the issues just felt that people responding should have a little more background about the circumstances.
                    Have you discussed this with each other, you and the OP? (I am assuming that you are using an alter..) Seems weird..

                    Comment


                    • #30
                      "Allowing boarders to bring in trainers benefits everyone"

                      Again, the boarders can bring in trainers, for a fee.

                      Comment


                      • #31
                        Genuine question – what about other horse professionals such as farriers, vets, physios, saddle fitters etc? Because they are also directly benefitting from the facilities.

                        The owner of the facility I keep my horse at occasionally talks about how trainers and the above are making money from her. I can see both sides of the argument here – BO has all the cost and responsibilities of the farm that these professionals benefit from without having to pay for it. However, if there was to be a charge, it would be passed directly and immediately on to me. So I think what I pay in board should cover ‘normal’ professional support for a sport horse. (I live in an area where farms with trainers are the exception, not the norm).

                        It’s not a problem as such, just something that I think about every so often. I do usually go to my trainer’s for lessons anyway, as it’s very close and he has all the jumps set up.

                        Comment


                        • #32
                          Feliz, you bring up a good point. My vet charges me for a barn call. My farrier does as well. And if I brought in an outside trainer and there was a barn charge for that, the trainer would pass it on to me too. So I guess in some cases, extra charges are the norm.

                          Comment


                          • #33
                            I would not be so much concerned about a use fee for the lessons and even for training rides. I would be out the door in a minute because of the ranting and irrational behavior, nevermind the ignorance, of the owner. I don't put up with abuse for any reason.
                            "We, too, will be remembered not for victories or defeats in battle or in politics, but for our contribution to the human spirit." JFK

                            Comment


                            • #34
                              Originally posted by Sparky View Post
                              Feliz, you bring up a good point. My vet charges me for a barn call. My farrier does as well. And if I brought in an outside trainer and there was a barn charge for that, the trainer would pass it on to me too. So I guess in some cases, extra charges are the norm.
                              huh?

                              The vet/farrier charges the owner of the horse for the trip to the barn.

                              The trainer is paying the owner of the barn for the use of the ring, not seeing the similarities.

                              I think the vet/farrier question was, why they are not being charged by the BO....

                              Alas.
                              Seems ring fees for trainers are common. I think it's double dipping (and I would expect to have the ring to myself for that time), but what do I know.
                              If a BO needs that money (and I ahve heard so many justifications why they need it, because a lesson is so much tougher on the footing than a regular ride etc...) just raise your rates.

                              However, there sems to be the bigger problem of the BO being difficult to deal with.
                              And they say it's the horse people who are crazy!

                              All I can say, move if you can't deal with it. You can't make him take his meds, and you can't force him to sell to knowledgeable people.

                              Comment


                              • #35
                                Any BO who PURPOSELY effs up the footing and makes sand dunes in his arena to piss off the boarders is a nutbag. I can certainly understand why this facility isn't full. And if he keeps up with these antics, it never will be.

                                That said, it is perfectly acceptable to charge arena fees to an outside trainer. In my experience, the fee is monthly, based on the trainer's use of the main riding areas at peak times, and also covers trainer rides on client horses. It's a much easier way to assure that the BO is compensated for the use of his facility by a non-boarding trainer, and that the boarders are kept happy because their chosen instructor is welcome.
                                In loving memory of Laura Jahnke.
                                A life lived by example, done too soon.
                                www.caringbridge.org/page/laurajahnke/

                                Comment


                                • #36
                                  "huh?

                                  The vet/farrier charges the owner of the horse for the trip to the barn.

                                  The trainer is paying the owner of the barn for the use of the ring, not seeing the similarities."

                                  Yes, the trainer is being charged by the owner of the barn, but he then raises the lesson fee by the same amount, so in essence, the boarder is paying the fee.

                                  Comment


                                  • #37
                                    Originally posted by whimsycat View Post
                                    The BO doesn't ride or teach, so there wouldn't be scheduling issues for him. The only instruction happens from free-lance trainers.

                                    My thought is that having the trainers come in regularly attracts and keeps boarders there, makes boarders safer, etc., its a benefit to him that way. The most recent manager filled up the barn, then he fired her. The new managers are trying to handle a dicey situation. It certainly isn't the BO's fantastic personality that keeps boarders around. lol.

                                    Its just kind of a crappy situation all around.

                                    This one time, last fall, the BO saw a negative review of his farm on FB (left by a previous boarder a year before...). BO's response was to take his tractor into the indoor and push the footing into sand dunes and leave it that way for several days.
                                    BO sounds like a charmer ..
                                    However although perhaps he himself doesn't ride I am going to assume that other boarders do .. And it could impact his boarding business if others need to schedule their riding time around outside coaches/trainers doing business in his facility. Lessons and boarding and the resultant juggling for ring or arena time can be a huge PITA for a BO or BM.
                                    He can charge for allowing outside coaches/trainers to operate in his facility he is well within his rights. He does however need to make sure they are current with insurance , oef or whatever the equivalent is in your area.

                                    He does need to make both boarders and coach/trainers aware upfront what they are with decent notice of any fee schedule changes.

                                    Comment


                                    • #38
                                      Originally posted by Calamber View Post
                                      I would not be so much concerned about a use fee for the lessons and even for training rides. I would be out the door in a minute because of the ranting and irrational behavior, nevermind the ignorance, of the owner. I don't put up with abuse for any reason.
                                      So would I. And he wouldn't get any 30 days notice from me, either. Scumbag.
                                      My warmbloods have actually drunk mulled wine in the past. Not today though. A drunk warmblood is a surly warmblood. - WildandWickedWarmbloods

                                      Comment


                                      • #39
                                        Hey, if he wants to see some negative publicity, turn him on to this thread. Men like him piss me off.
                                        My warmbloods have actually drunk mulled wine in the past. Not today though. A drunk warmblood is a surly warmblood. - WildandWickedWarmbloods

                                        Comment


                                        • #40
                                          I would run, not walk from that barn, trainer fees aside. I have only had horses at a barn with an in-house trainer, both for training and/or lessons, so I'm not familiar with an arena fee, but I could see maybe a monthly charge rather than per lesson.

                                          However, I would not deal with a petty BO who is not opposed to tearing up footing because they got a bad review, or rant and rave and yell over things. It sounds like a disaster waiting to happen. I would be finding a new place as soon as possible.
                                          Adventures of the nontraditional Rocky in Dressage...
                                          http://www.singlefootfarms.com/blog
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