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A New Equestrian Center in Delaplane, Virginia?

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  • #21
    Are you talking about taking prime agricultural land out of production?

    Because I swear if I hear of yet more more "estate" type of snob compound with covenants against farming being done in the Piedmont I am going to run for a seat on the Board of Supervisors and run all you people out of here. I'll make it my mission in life I swear to God.

    You're not talking about the proposed Chattins Run, are you? On the Harris farm? Because that proposal, if approved by the Board - could be construed as a violation of the Virginia Right to Farm act. If not - it is definitely an abuse of the land use assessment and I for one will challenge it - and I hope the PEC does too.

    I'm all for horses in the Piedmont and I'd rather see horses than houses. But none of the big facilities are making money. Look what happened to Morven Park. There's a big facility in Catlett of all places - it's a million dollar barn. Practically empty.

    Why not just leave Delaplane to the farmers, ok? Can we at least have some of our food in this country actually GROWN in this country?
    Brothers and sisters, I bid you beware
    Of giving your heart to a dog to tear.
    -Rudyard Kipling

    Comment


    • #22
      <BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">top-notch place that will not sacrifice the quality of life for those who purchase homes, nor will we compromise the equestrian experience for those who ride and train at our facility. </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

      But what about those that already LIVE there?



      I get unnerved every time I hear "estate" anything.

      I'm a resident of Old Town, Alexandria; I live in a 200 year old house. However, my goal ever since I was a kid was to have a horse farm in Middleburg. I liked the quiet there.

      HAHAHAHAHA. I drive out Route 50 and unfailingly want to cry.

      I plan on buying my farm, if all goes well, within the next ten years, and I fear that there won't be a farm left to buy - I'll have to get an "estate" home that is named after whatever used to be there.

      I read the Post's Real Estate section this weekend and found it upsetting. Everywhere these "Estate" homes are going up, with vinyl siding and generally hideously landscaped. You can bet that when I have millions, I'm will NEVER buy a house like this. They tend to look tacky, and beige. For the record (not just directed at you, Delaplane Equestrian Complex, just a vent), .5 acres is not an Estate. And they all come with an interesting array of awkward-looking townhomes and condos - who honestly wants to live cheek-to-jowl in the middle of somewhere like Delaplane? You move to those places to GET AWAY from that.

      The worst thing about this - They are EVERYWHERE. It's absolutely unavoidable. I realize there's a lot of people here, and salaries are fairly high. But the sheer volume of plastic houses is abhorrent. It's wrecking the farmland and the way of life for many, many people, and future generations that would work to preserve that.


      I too would prefer an equestrian center estate then what they've done in Lorton, etc, where there are houses no more then 10 feet apart from one another. However, I'm still primarily in agreement with JSwan.
      ---
      They're small hearts.

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      • #23
        Trixie, a development such as the Ford Plantation (Richmond Hill, GA) does break away from the ugly McMansion concept however that 1,800 acre community development isn't cheap.

        Additionally unlike the OP's proposed Equestrian Center (which would be open to the public) the Ford Estate is not and more akin to a private golf course:

        Full equestrian facilities feature 22 stalls for Member horse boarding, 10 miles of trails, member tack rooms and conditioned central space for feed and storage. 22 acres of paddocks.

        With the massive investment required, the excess capacity of other venues semi-nearby, and the lack of interest from the community and zero chance for business breaks or tax incentives to encourage such a project .. it makes me wonder why someone would undertake this venture.

        Comment


        • #24
          Glimmerglass, that is one of the prettier ones that I have seen, however, I can't quite see something like as likely in these parts of Northern Virginia. It just doesn't quite fit.

          Just the fact that the term "equestrian experience" was used rubs me the wrong way. And with the home prices of the houses at the development that Glimmerglass has shown, it seems clear that it would be an "experience" rather than a lifestyle.

          In the parts of Virginia that have been mentioned, it is very much a lifestyle.
          ---
          They're small hearts.

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          • #25
            Trixie, the magnificent estate North Wales outside of Warrenton was almost going to be just like the Ford Plantation, if not worse. The manor house, a 30,000 + sq ft stone mansion, was going to be the club house and then the 3,000 + acre grounds would be semi-upscale housing for hundreds of homes. The massive stable complex was going to be retained for a community riding center.

            That was the late 1960's I acquired a bound copy of the lengthy proposal that went to the local governement about a decade ago. The plan failed and the property was held as an investment for a few more decades.

            Today the privately owned estate - which is in my view the finest in Fauquier Co. - is owned by Dallas, TX based Michael Prentiss. He restored the buildings, listed the estate on the history registry, placed large tracts of land under conservation, runs a commercial breeding program there, and is building up a small racing program with Elloluv a G1 winning filly the best so far.

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            • #26
              Indeed, Glimmer, North Wales is for the most part 'protected,' but ... I hunted thru there last Wednesday and there are a dozen or more 20-50-100 acre lots he's shaved off of the main parcel. Not quite the same as it 'was.' Guess nothing is, really. Not with so many babies populating the world ....
              * www.huntersrest.net -- Virginia hunt country's best Bed-and-Breakfast-and-Barn.

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              • #27
                I'd rather the area remain truly rural. However, if development is inevitable (which I fear it is), I'd rather see an equestrian facility than yet another stinking golf course.
                ___________________________
                Age is a very high price to pay for maturity.

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                • #28
                  So long as "The American Dream" is advertised as a single family home, on a large 1-3 acre yard, always pictured in the country, without the requisite mowing equipment and budget listed, but I digress, farmland is going to go to the "last cash crop".

                  And, I don't think the model works well.

                  I live across the street from Willowyn Farms, "An equestrian community"...they put in a few trails between properties, but forgot to create easements and there is one landowner, smack dab in the middle who has gated both ends of the aisle that cross his/her property because of the "mine mine all mine" attitude that seems to come along with purchasing that American Dream.

                  To me, this sounds like a developer posting. Yes, a developer of a place where horses will be allowed, but the realitites of building and running a massive show complex with nice houses too?, and keeping the impact to the community low are vastly different than the fantasy world.

                  Mel

                  Comment


                  • #29
                    Believe it or not, I do appreciate all of your honest and hearfelt answers. Please, let me set some of your fears to rest.

                    1. No, this is not an actively farmed property. J Swan, your food supply should remain as it is now, or at least it won't be interrupted by this project.

                    2. No, this is not Chattins Run.

                    3. The homes mentioned in conjunction with this particular project would be true estates on large parcels of land, not .5 acres. Remember, my partner and I wish to live on this property. We have no desire to live in place where one can see neighbors - at least not clearly.

                    4. First and foremost, this would be a PRIVATE facilty. Our initial thinking is to turn the training center over to a respected trainer, but make the facility available to home owners (of which, there will be a limited number). While we'd love to say it's an shows are an absolute, that part of the idea is still in the planning stage. We are certainly open to making the center available for such events, but it has to make sense for the project. Of course it would stay open to fox hunters regardless of whether shows are held there or not. As a rider myself, I'd love to see at least clinics at the facility, as well as the aforementioned top trainer. No matter the size we build, our goal is to build a dream facility.

                    5. Yes, large turnouts are an absolute!! Again, I'm a long-time horseman and have taken the stand that the horse facilty must be top of the line with the comfort and care of the horse at the forefront of all decisions.

                    Please keep the comments coming!

                    Comment


                    • #30
                      After re-reading the above posts, I feel compelled to add that we are not proposing 100+ homes on this property. And the homes we are planning will be on significant pieces of land, NOT 1-20 acre lots. These won't be "McMansions" - I don't want to ride around or live amongst McMansions.

                      Comment


                      • #31
                        I think you'll have a tough time getting something like that approved in Delaplane. While the County slogan is "Preserving Agriculture in a Business Friendly Community" this type of use won't be considered agricultural and they really aren't business friendly. Great Meadows has been in operation since when the 80's (?) and they still have to go in front of the BOS every 3-5 years to have their special exception reapproved. It's one thing to have a really nice private facility but when you start talking VA Horse Center like... you're asking for trouble.

                        Comment


                        • #32
                          Delaplane Equestrian Complex, I'd suggest looking at a very tasteful (architecturally) development like Merrick Farm in Bucks County, PA; they have a very strong focus on the aesthetics of the landscape and preservation of the atmosphere.

                          Merrick is not an equestrian development however each home uses fieldstone as a primary building material which certainly is more in keeping with a desire to build less obtrusive homes.

                          However I have to concur with the sentiment of others, if the equestrian "complex" is going to private then doesn't this just boil down to being a property development that happens to have an adjacent place to ride?

                          I wouldn't necessarily say such a plan is of any benefit to the Delaplane area as increased water usage, potential changes in run-off, increased sewage, reduced trees, compressed open space, and more traffic in exchange for higher taxes to the greater Delaplane citizens isn't win-win

                          Comment


                          • #33
                            I am confused. in the first post you say "think Kentucky Horse Park, but smaller"- which leads me to believe you are talking about a competition site.

                            But now you say a "private facility".

                            Which is it.
                            Janet

                            chief feeder and mucker for Music, Spy, Belle and Tiara. Someone else is now feeding and mucking for Chief and Brain (both foxhunting now).

                            Comment


                            • #34
                              Fauquier County has extremely strict RA Zoning Requirements - you choices are large lots of 50 & 100+ acre estates or one large parcel with 2-5 acre lots. An equestrian community as you envison may not be buildable where your proposing it. I think you really need to do research at the County to see what you really can do with the property before you get too deep into your planning.

                              Comment


                              • #35
                                Glimmerglass, thank you for the links. They are most helpful to this process!

                                Without giving away the details (as rough as they are now), I can only say that this will not be a typical equestrian community. I've seen many, and have been disappointed in almost all. To be disappointed again is certainly not my goal, nor is it my partner's to create an ordinary housing "development".

                                Ideally this project will be open to shows and equestrian events. That is our goal. But right now we are still researching that option (and that's why I originally posted that line). Our baseline plan is to build one heck of an equestrian center with a few homes around it. That's the minimum. Shows, horse trials and clinics would be a bonus in my mind.

                                Hilldale, yes, thank you for that information. As I have mentioned above, we had never envisioned small lots - another poster (or several, actually) provided those details. We are aware of those county requirements and researched that portion of the project at the earliest stage.

                                While it is true that this project won't be the same as if the land was left completely untouched, we have every intention of maintaining the beauty of the landscape, and, perhaps, enhancing it with a safe, maintained fox hunting haven, an incredible training center, and home owners who will contractually committed to preserving the equestrian way of life.

                                Comment


                                • #36
                                  You say the homes won't be "McMansions" but if you are talking about homes on 20+ acres, the people with that kind of change are going to want to build their "dream home". Go check out a few of the building a home forums.

                                  Most of the posters are building large, extremely well appointed, custom homes. 2 story foyers, large rec rooms, entertainment rooms, custom kitchens, butler's pantries, one bathroom per bedroom (so 5/5 etc). And, every last one of them takes offense if you call THEIR house a McMansion.

                                  Anyone noticing that monstrosity that is apartment building size in Beacon Hill? Right on 7. The roof is taking forever, I think they are doing a slate roof. It is a brick home, I'd ballpark the sqft in that "single family home" at 18,000-20,000 square feet.

                                  I live in a McMansion almost. I am not sure if under 3000 square feet qualifies, my personal mental cutoff is 4000 square feet, but I recognize that 2800 square feet (plus an unfinished basement) is huge by my personal standards.

                                  The fieldstone requirement is nice, I wish I could have afforded that. I have vinyl siding. Yes, the crap plastic. Why? Is it because I just LOVE the look of vinyl siding?

                                  No, it is because I spent the $50K I could have spent on bricking that house on my 7 stall barn. I spent another $25K on my fencing, $15K on my arena, etc.

                                  I don't have an unlimited budget and there are many things that I still want to do.

                                  When it is time to replace that siding, I'll go with the Hardiboard. Same look, but sturdier.

                                  As for the private estates, there will be complainers. Make 100% sure you have those trail easements in before the first land sale is done.

                                  Mel

                                  Comment


                                  • #37
                                    Mel, we are of course targeting a high-end buyer. And no, these won't be cookie-cutter homes and should be quite large (no offense, but they will be well over the 3,000 sq ft mark). We will have a contract up front that will fully disclose all of the community requirements, espeecially those that relate directly to equestrian activities. I can say we are intimately aware of the home building process, but are not evil anti-horse folks.

                                    Comment


                                    • #38
                                      Well, I'm interested in what you've got to say, especially as you must be just over the hill from me. So I'll definitely be following the discussion.

                                      My prime selfish question is this: as an equestrian and a neighbor, but not your target market for the handful of equestrian homes you're potentially planning, how would your proposal impact me? If the place is completely private, and if the plan for shows and trials doesn't come off, then I don't see how my input would be of any value or interest to either you or me...

                                      If what you're planning ultimately becomes some kind of equestrian community center for this area then that's, er, um, a horse of a different color. So, even if you don't have everything nailed down in terms of what's possible, what's your ultimate goal? To have an impact on the whole horse community? Or to have a lovely place for yourself, your partner, a handful of like-minded people, and whatever top-trainer you bring into residence there. Not passing judgement on either one, just wondering...

                                      Emily
                                      "It's not a perfect world....But it's still good to be alive! If you don't know by now, you'll probably never understand the way it feels to wanna live....One Perfect Moment!!"

                                      Comment


                                      • #39
                                        Emily, our ultimate goal is a bit fluid in concept at this point. I can strongly say that we wish to build a lovely place place where, as you said, like-minded owners can live and train (if they wish) with an outstanding trainer. Again, that's the minimum. We may (hopefully) change the plan if further research shows that a complex open for events is a viable goal.

                                        What we are not envisioning is a Frying Pan Park type center that's completely open to the public. However, a few shows and quality clinics could be a perfect addition to the plan.

                                        Of course, if you like the trainer associated with the facility, you would have access to the property's equestrian resources during lessons. We hope that, at the very least, is seen as a minor advantage to the neighbors.

                                        Comment


                                        • #40
                                          Ahh - I get it. More "high-end" homes McMansions - yes - MCMANSIONS with streets named after the farms that used to be there.

                                          Attracting residents to the "country lifestyle" that exists only in some marketing guru's imagination, people who "love nature" but don't want it crapping in their front yard. Abuse of the land use valuation by keeping massive lawns and calling it "rural". "equestrian communities" that have no horses, no farming, covenants that dictate what color your tractor can be....

                                          No thanks. Go ruin someone elses county. Leave ours alone. Maybe the current residents see you "vision" for what it is.

                                          And you didn't answer my question. Are you referring to Chattins Run?
                                          Brothers and sisters, I bid you beware
                                          Of giving your heart to a dog to tear.
                                          -Rudyard Kipling

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