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Choosing the right route for a prospect....

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  • #1

    Choosing the right route for a prospect....

    I have a conundrum.

    Instead of being horseless when I lost my gelding after a year to an unrecoverable pelvic fracture, I took in a 3yo Saddlebred filly out of a foster/rescue situation. Had met the filly as a yearling and liked her before their situation had gotten bad.
    So when i figured out my gelding wasn't pulling through, and heard she was still stuck in a foster, I decided to take her on to kind of distract me.

    As a yearling, she was the standout of the field. Not a total freak, but cute enough with good hocks and a load of sass.... My hope was that she would be enough horse for me to show in pleasure and adult equitation... if not forever, then at least temporarily until she had enough show experience for someone else to want her...

    Now as a 4yo, I'm not sure she's got enough fire in the belly to make a show horse out of her. And she's not physically horrible, but is one who would need a little attitude to make her into a competitive horse. I don't know if she is coming by this dullness because this stuff is new and she's just dealing with it by shutting down, or if it's her bloodline (older bloodlines up close), or if the parelli crap her foster did with her was a contributing factor... but... the long and short of it is this:
    If she's mad about something or worried, she's a good looking horse- goes level barefoot with strong hocks, maybe a little forward headed but still pretty cute.
    Outside of that, she's generally dull as dishwater..... The only time she airs up outside of getting worked up over something is if I'm leading her and pester her with the whip behind me at a trot. And then we stop and praise for acting "big". But as soon as she gets out away from me to longe on a circle where I'm not worried about damaging her joints, she turns into a dull, uninterested horse who is happy to throw her weight around.

    Now... I have not gotten to do a lot with her for having her as long as I have.... I got her in the late fall and only had about a month of weather that allowed me to work with her regularly.... the most I've been able to do since then is long line at a walk up and down the barn aisle..... (no indoor so no place else to work all winter between bitter temps and ice, and now we're in mud season).... And while I've worked my share of youngsters, most of them were kind of brought up as show horses from birth- showing in hand, or at least getting handled. This mare lived out unhandled her first three years and change.

    I know most will say "work her and get a better feel for her" BUT Whatever I do, it's kind of going to have to be what I stick with. Because starting her as a dressage horse will pretty much cement that it's ok to just kind of be blah as long as she's following the blessed training scale.... but most dressage people don't want one that's been started like a saddle seat horse, which is 100% what I'd have to do right now if I were to have any hope of making her into a horse I want

    my inclination right now is to give up on my hopes of making her a saddle seat horse. Start her as a dressage horse and put her up for sale.

    BUT... I'm a saddle seat rider. I don't really enjoy anything else at this point in my life... I enjoy cocky and snorty and brave. If it doesn't think big thoughts, it just isn't much fun... Don't get me wrong... I am capable of doing the work to get her started correctly for dressage... but for me on a 1-10 scale of how much I enjoy it, it's a 1...

    And in dogs, it's possible to build drive in a dog who doesn't have a ton, if you work them the correct way and praise them for the right stuff. And it can work that way in horses too. My old mare was proof of this.

    Just wishing there was a crystal ball, ya know?
    Tags: None
  • #2
    I don't see one bit of unadulturated praise for her. She's "cute enough" and "not physically horrible." You only find her good looking when her brain is in a place where she can't even enjoy what's being asked (mad or worried) and she's otherwise "dull as dishwater."

    So what about her makes you want to even try?

    And I'm asking that sincerely. What I'm reading is someone who picked up a horse, gave it a chance, and they just aren't that in to each other. It sounds like you put some ground work on her and could maybe get her going under saddle. Those are good things.

    But unless there is (a lot!) more of a bond than your post suggests, it sounds like working with her would just be a miserable uphill slog for you. And it doesn't sound like it would be mentally pleasant for her, if the only way you can show her what you want is to make her mad/worried first.

    Put her up for sale now, even before she's started. You might find someone willing to buy--it'll be a very limited market, but I bought my half Arab English Pleasure drop-out as an all-groundwork-done, just needs to be started prospect, and I can't be the only one who would do that.

    In the meantime, put 30 days on her, or send her out for 30 days if you really don't want to start her for dressage. I'm having a hard time figuring out what you do to young saddleseat horses that would be so antithetical to basic good young horse work, but I'll take your word that it's drastically different.

    Once she sells, find a horse who puts a smile on your face and doesn't leave you reaching for good things to say about them.

    You'll have done a good thing taking this horse on while you had her and then sending her on her way so both of you can enjoy yourselves rather than making do and hoping.

    Life is too short.
    She Gets Lost

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    • #3
      I'd be bored with anything that didn't have that snort-and-blow attitude as well. I don't think you can "make" attitude, they're either born with it or they're not.

      I'd probably just start her on the WTC basics and find her a new home if she doesn't channel her inner show horse. There's no shame in that.

      Comment

      • #4
        Originally posted by Halt Near X View Post
        I'm having a hard time figuring out what you do to young saddleseat horses that would be so antithetical to basic good young horse work, but I'll take your word that it's drastically different.
        It isn't drastically different. The Amish dude I send my youngsters to has started dozens of nice ASB show horses, several of which have been to Louisville. He gets them broke without taking the fire out of them. He starts QHs, TWHs, STBs... basically anything anyone wants to send him. I'm pretty sure he doesn't alter his methods based on breed.

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        • Original Poster
          #5
          What they do in terms of contact with the bit is the opposite though..... saddle seat horses= raise up off contact and be super light. dressage horse= stretch forward toward contact. And every single dressage person I've has had major opinions...... heck, read the dressage forum on here when you mention saddlebreds for dressage... you will get just about everyone in dressage saying how hard it is to work them right once they learn the saddle seat thing...

          And in the present state of the horse market, I'm reluctant to sell anything that isn't legitimately doing a job. So if I want to not keep her permanently, I don't want to try one thing and then have to double back and do a bunch of retraining.... And I really don't want her to end up in a bad place because I sold her too early and not pointed toward some kind of career...

          Furthering the conundrum, right now she is not registered. at the moment the controller of the estate that I got her from is being less than cooperative about supplying the necessary paperwork to register horses- he has a new girlfriend who has convinced him that he's been badly taken advantage of, I guess. so that's another strike against her.... I haven't given up on getting her registered (DNA kit has already been done by the registry so we know her parentage and they are registered) but I need a stallion report signed and that's probably going to take some time too...

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          • #6
            Unless you can get hold of a couple pounds of caffeine, I'd sell her. Start her basic WTC & move her on.

            The registration headache would seal the deal for me. If the girl friend thinks your taking advantage of them by spending $400 to register a 3 yro, I'd be somewhat inclined to invite her out, hand her the mare & tell her what she can do with the stallion report...

            Life is too short to ride (or drive) a dead head.
            Visit my Spoonflower shop

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            • #7
              So she's not drop dead gorgeous, is a little forward headed, and has no look-at-me attitude, AND has registration issues as well. Her only redeeming quality is that she has some motion. Nope, not worth putting in the effort to try to make a ss show horse.

              I had a young gelding- strikingly pretty, put his head in your lap naturally, made any rider look good and was wonderful with kids. He had some attitude, but not a lot. He had very little motion- tried show shoes but they didn't help so ended up going back to kegs and showing him natural pleasure. I tried Western Pleasure with him- he looked awesome but he was a bit too silly and not quite big enough for that. He ended up being an academy horse because he sure wasn't going to make it in KY as a regular show horse. No regrets other than spending too much money on him before selling.

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              • #8
                I agree with everyone else. She's never going to be the horse you want, so don't spend any more time and money than you have to to move her on to a better home that doesn't want snort-n-blow.

                Saddlebreds make great pleasure horses, and I am sure there's someone out there that would enjoy her calm nature.

                Horses cost too much to try to make one into something it's not.

                I feel your disappointment, sounds like you had high hopes.

                Comment

                • #9
                  Actually seen some good ASBs as foals and weanlings and they either had the fire or they did not, the ones that didn't never got it either. Not something you can train into them tho some try with less then savory methods, ending up with horses full of fear instead of fire.

                  Its OK to admit shes not destined for what you want to do. I'd long line her and back her then find a home as a pleasure or lower level Dressage horse. maybe even as a cart horse.

                  I honestly dont think 30 days learning basics under saddle is going to cement how she accepts contact and goes and is not going to be the etched in stone way she goes forever. I watched those same young ASBs getting their first ever rides and I couldn't see a thing different from the first 30 days on any other colt and some of these went on to be very good Three Gaited, Fine Harness and Natural Mane and Tail horses this outfit specialized in.

                  It doesnt sound like you are heavily into her financially at this point but she needs to get started under saddle before she would sell to a decent home. Send her out and let them know you want to sell.

                  Nothing wrong with doing that and admitting shes just not going to fire and be what you want.
                  When opportunity knocks it's wearing overalls and looks like work.

                  The horse world. Two people. Three opinions.

                  Comment

                  • #10
                    Originally posted by blairasb View Post
                    heck, read the dressage forum on here when you mention saddlebreds for dressage... you will get just about everyone in dressage saying how hard it is to work them right once they learn the saddle seat thing...

                    And in the present state of the horse market, I'm reluctant to sell anything that isn't legitimately doing a job. So if I want to not keep her permanently, I don't want to try one thing and then have to double back and do a bunch of retraining....
                    Sounds like she's had almost zero work--so why not work her long and low to strengthen her back first? You can use that strength for any discipline including SS if she starts to show some promise. Could she just be out of shape?

                    I'm currently in the process of transitioning a former SS horse and it has not been easy, but this is an animal that lived and showed in that world until he was 14. AND, a year and a half in, we're starting to get it!! A decade plus of SS IS hard to un-train, but a few months shouldn't be.

                    Is her tail cut? That could be a deal-breaker for sport-horse land.

                    Comment

                    • #11
                      Originally posted by blairasb View Post
                      heck, read the dressage forum on here when you mention saddlebreds for dressage... you will get just about everyone in dressage saying how hard it is to work them right once they learn the saddle seat thing...

                      And in the present state of the horse market, I'm reluctant to sell anything that isn't legitimately doing a job. So if I want to not keep her permanently, I don't want to try one thing and then have to double back and do a bunch of retraining....
                      Sounds like she's had almost zero work--so why not work her long and low to strengthen her back first? You can use that strength for any discipline including SS if she starts to show some promise. Could she just be out of shape?

                      I'm currently in the process of transitioning a former SS horse and it has not been easy, but this is an animal that lived and showed in that world until he was 14. AND, a year and a half in, we're starting to get it!! A decade plus of SS IS hard to un-train, but a few months shouldn't be.

                      Is her tail cut? That could be a deal-breaker for sport-horse land.

                      Comment

                      • Original Poster
                        #12
                        Originally posted by earsup View Post
                        Sounds like she's had almost zero work--so why not work her long and low to strengthen her back first? You can use that strength for any discipline including SS if she starts to show some promise. Could she just be out of shape?

                        I'm currently in the process of transitioning a former SS horse and it has not been easy, but this is an animal that lived and showed in that world until he was 14. AND, a year and a half in, we're starting to get it!! A decade plus of SS IS hard to un-train, but a few months shouldn't be.

                        Is her tail cut? That could be a deal-breaker for sport-horse land.
                        Nope. Tail hasn't been bustled or cut.

                        Comment

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