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Trailer UNloading Question

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  • Original Poster

    #41
    Progress report - now that I have corner feeders installed, and the cold freezing weather is gone, we have gone back to training, with much success. I did try leading him in and backing him out a few days ago (when we had gale force winds - what was I thinking?!?!?) and that didn't solve the rushing.

    Today, I put half his lunch ration in the corner feeder, and he all but dragged me into the trailer after him. I kept my end of the lead rope (while I was outside the trailer) and after he had a few bites to eat, I gave a little tug and a cluck, and he backed out very calmly. We repeated this at least 5 times, then I put him back in his stall so I could work with my other horse on training him to get into the trailer (older, insecure gelding - a whole seperate topic). Then I took the little guy out again, and he marched right in, and came off when I asked. Definite progess.

    Next step - the butt bar!
    There are friends and faces that may be forgotten, but there are horses that never will be. - Andy Adams

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    • #42
      Do you have a ramp or step? Not that it really matters but mine all have a command for that first step off. I tell them to back and when they hit that "nowhere" spot I tell them to "step down" That way they listen for me to tell them how to put their feet. Mine are all voice command trained and they love knowing that I take care of them like that. Kinda the alpha mare, herd boss thing but with voice. Good luck and glad you are making progress.
      Proud Mama of a BOY rider

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      • Original Poster

        #43
        Originally posted by eventchic33 View Post
        Do you have a ramp or step? Not that it really matters but mine all have a command for that first step off. I tell them to back and when they hit that "nowhere" spot I tell them to "step down" That way they listen for me to tell them how to put their feet. Mine are all voice command trained and they love knowing that I take care of them like that. Kinda the alpha mare, herd boss thing but with voice. Good luck and glad you are making progress.
        It's a ramp, with some interesting non-slip stuff on it. I think he was rushing because the day that I was loading with the divider in the middle, he bumped into the butt bar. So we backed up a step to still working with the divider swung to one side. I do talk to them, both on the way in, and out, just a habit I have from 20 years of trailering horses.
        There are friends and faces that may be forgotten, but there are horses that never will be. - Andy Adams

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        • #44
          Thanks for the update. Glad to hear he's doing well!
          "Passion without knowledge is a runaway horse."

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          • Original Poster

            #45
            Well, it's been 3 weeks since my last post, and I hit the figurative brick wall - could not get the horse to stay on long enough to get the butt bar up. Called in a trainer, who is wonderful. Our first session was tonight, and we ended on a good note, but still not enough to get the butt bar up! At least it was not just me!

            He is supposed to come back tomorrow afternoon! I have 9 days to get to where this horse will think the trailer is the best place on earth to be.

            At least in watching what the trainer was doing, I was doing all the right things.
            There are friends and faces that may be forgotten, but there are horses that never will be. - Andy Adams

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            • #46
              One thing that helped my horse learn to stay in until the butt bar was up....

              I left a treat in the hay bag so he would have it when he walked on. While he was munching that I'd walk up to the escape door (or window I guess in your case), holding a treat. If he stayed there he got it. I might take a few steps away while still looking at him, and then come back and treat. Unload.

              Next time - same thing but I walked farther away before second/third treat. Started turning my back on him before returning. Eventually worked up to walking back and looking at the butt bar, rattling the butt bar, putting up the butt bar, before the second/third treat. If he backed out before that, no big deal, just goes back on (he didn't go blasting off the back, so slightly different than your scenario).

              Now he walks on, gets a treat as a reward, I put up butt bar and he gets another treat. I don't use the treats as bribes, but as positive reinforcement for calm behavior. Obviously whether this works depends on the individual horse and how they relate to treats!

              Good luck, sounds like you are doing really well!
              ...somewhere between the talent and the potato....

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              • Original Poster

                #47
                Well, the trainer could only work with us for about 20 minutes on Friday, he was called away on an emergency haul, but his diagnosis is that the horse is terrified in the trailer, and the butt bar and ramp are triggers to his panick (fear of being "trapped). So we took out the divider, and I literally spent hours in the trailer with him, feeding him his lunch and dinner slowly by the handful until we spent an hour each session. I'm trying to make him view the tailer as a good place.

                I don't think he will be over his fear by this upcoming weekend, so I guess we need to just scratch the show Sunday morning.

                On thing I was thinking about was to get a swimming pool styrofoam noodle, paint it black, and use it as a "butt bar" to desensitize him over it.

                Funny part is that when I put them out after unhitching, the little bugger goes sniffing around the outside of the trailer looking for the food that he was eating in there.
                There are friends and faces that may be forgotten, but there are horses that never will be. - Andy Adams

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                • #48
                  I applaud your efforts to make you gelding like your trailer. If he's sniffing around the outside looking for more food, he probably does like it, or at least feels pretty safe.

                  Everything else is a loading problem, IMO-- unloading, butt-bar, whatever. Perhaps it is against your training philosophy, but I think your horse's life will ultimately be easiest and safest if he understands that he needs to do what is asked of him, when it's asked, even when it's not in his plans or even a little scary. I think the key is not to teach him to do one thing or another, but to make his mind go slowly throughout the process, and to wait for you to tell him what to do next. If you get this done, he'll always be safe because he'll know how to think.

                  Since he loads, he should also unload when you ask-- not before, not after. If you teach him that you control both loading and unloading, I think this becomes the basis for waiting while you put up the butt-bar. If I have to put my body behind a horse in order to put up the butt-bar or ramp, I make damned sure the horse is already trained to wait without it. Waiting, I think, is key to the slow, thinking mind.

                  By the way, my horse and I worked out a signal for unloading that keeps us both safe. He doesn't move until I give a slight tug on his tail, but all that came from my teaching him to wait, and that came from my teaching him that I controlled where he moved.

                  Best of luck with your horse,

                  -mvp
                  The armchair saddler
                  Politically Pro-Cat

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                  • #49
                    If you can find someone with a bigger trailer - especially a 2 + 1 or a 2 horse combo, you can walk the horse further up into the trailer. That gives you the time and space to close up butt bar, and ramp. Then back the horse a few steps to the normal stall. When they are more forward, they don't seem to care when you are closing up. Sometimes it even helps to let them "graze" on some loose alfalfa sprinkled around the floor in front.

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                    • #50
                      Originally posted by grayarabpony View Post
                      Put a chain over his nose to get his attention. Then reward him with a carrot when he listens.
                      Having had a horse with this problem I do NOT suggest this - the more you try to "hold" them in the more frightened they become (think trapped) and the worse it will get. Take the other posters tactic by getting the horse to load and unload - 1 hoof at a time. Horse is nervous about getting and being in the trailer.
                      Now in Kentucky

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                      • Original Poster

                        #51
                        I agree, I am not forcing him to be or stay in the trailer by way of head restraints. The trainer had his rope halter the first day, second day he said the horse does not need this - it is not an obediance issue, it is a fear issue at this point.

                        So, no matter how long it takes, I am determined to help him be brave on his own, so that I never have to deal with this again with this horse.

                        Rright now, with the divider out, he has the whole back of the trailer to maneuver around, of course with no divider, no butt-bar, so the issue now would be to get him to stand quietly so we could get the ramp up, and right now, he is not confident enough in the trailer to do that.

                        Yesterday's session went a bit better, he only backed out on his own twice in an hour, a few times he took one step back and then came back forward on his own, so he is making progress, it is just taking longer than I anticipated.

                        Luckily my daughter does not care if we have to miss the show this weekend, and neither do I. I would rather take the time to get this done right, than risk terrorizing him more than he already was in October.
                        There are friends and faces that may be forgotten, but there are horses that never will be. - Andy Adams

                        Comment


                        • #52
                          I haven't read all the responses, but to me the most logical answer is to teach him patience on the ramp. Just let him hang out for a while. Don't let him rush in, or rush back, just hang half way in/out. It won't deter your training b/c ultimately you end the session with him in the trailer, but it'll keep him from realizing it's either on or off, no relaxing in between.

                          I started my gelding as a yearling self-loading and he did the same thing. He learned awfully quickly that the ramp/trailer is not something his is to rush into or out of. We used to spend a good half hour just kinda hanging somewhere in between with doors wide open, then load up, I'd stand there for 30 seconds, do the butt bar, 5 minutes, undo it, wait 30 seconds then pull the tail. Of course he knows that "Easy" is his message to go slow and be careful. I LOFF self-loaders, but I don't like leaving them 'loose' with no butt bar for too long b/c then they take advantage and assume they can back out at will.

                          Just read your last post, sounds like fear is the problem. Then just hanging IMO would do great. Heck I used to sit on a chair in the middle trailer and just let him sniff, pick up bits of leftover hay, wander around, let his own weight shift it around, listen and look at things through the windows til he got bored and antsy. You could tell b/c he would paw. Then I'd slowly back him out, and automatically let himself load all the way back up, I'd clank around the locks of the ramp/butt bar, etc for a 2-3 minutes, then asked him to unload. No commotion b/c he was already bored with the whole event.
                          Fourth N' Goal Training LLC.
                          ~Specializing in Mom and Kid Approved Equitation and Jumper Horses

                          *Horse Collector Status = Six Pack*

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                          • #53
                            Originally posted by Valentina_32926 View Post
                            Having had a horse with this problem I do NOT suggest this - the more you try to "hold" them in the more frightened they become (think trapped) and the worse it will get. Take the other posters tactic by getting the horse to load and unload - 1 hoof at a time. Horse is nervous about getting and being in the trailer.
                            You can't unload one hoof at a time if the horse is rushing backward.

                            Nor can anyone "hold" a horse on a trailer, and that's not what I suggested doing.

                            If this horse isn't loading all of the way and then rushing back out, then no, I wouldn't use a chain. We used the one step at a time to teach our horses to load on a step-up. It was the John Lyons method of teaching horses to load. It was amazing to see my young's horse's lightbulb movement once he realized that all he had to do was put one foot forward. He was much more comfortable once he realized that he could put one or two or three feet on and then back out if he wasn't comfortable getting all of the way on. (Now this is for *teaching* a horse to load.) I believe he was all the way on the trailer in less than 5 minutes. And since he didn't feel forced, he wasn't in a hurry to get back out.

                            Nevertheless, my horse developed an instant habit of rushing out backward after being unloaded at the trainer's. He was very anxious to get out of the trailer and look around, and everyone knows about horses and instant bad habits -- they happen all of the time. A chain worked to stop that problem. There was no fight, no hair off the nose, nothing. It got his attention and he knows that he can't just drag someone with a chain over his nose. He needed to know that paying attention to the person at the end of the lead rope was more important than whatever is going on outside of the trailer. A horse will also have more confidence if they know the person leading them is in charge.

                            Comment


                            • #54
                              Originally posted by MunchkinsMom View Post
                              Ino divider, no butt-bar, so the issue now would be to get him to stand quietly so we could get the ramp up, and right now, he is not confident enough in the trailer to do that.
                              It is extremely dangerous to try to put up a ramp without a butt bar. Wait until you can get him loading with the partition, or load and turn him around. Hold him backwards to put up the ramp, then turn back around. If you try a different type of trailer, bigger to walk forward, slant, etc, and take him for a few rides, that will help his confidence in the trailer, and help to break the habit of shooting off backwards.

                              Comment

                              • Original Poster

                                #55
                                Originally posted by Fairview Horse Center View Post
                                It is extremely dangerous to try to put up a ramp without a butt bar. Wait until you can get him loading with the partition, or load and turn him around. Hold him backwards to put up the ramp, then turn back around. If you try a different type of trailer, bigger to walk forward, slant, etc, and take him for a few rides, that will help his confidence in the trailer, and help to break the habit of shooting off backwards.
                                Ah, that was a lightbulb moment for me right there! Now I know why the trainer wants me to get the rest of the dividers (the front post and chest bars) out of the trailer! We did try that twice, but never got to actually getting the ramp latched and the horse turned back facing front, he was totally traumatized by the ramp coming up, even while facing it.

                                So, my other concern is that if you haul the horse with no dividers, but tied, are there any issues IF the horse starts to act up in the tailer while hauling? I have read horror stories of trailers tipping over if a horse gets a bit rambunctious in the back. Any truth to this?
                                There are friends and faces that may be forgotten, but there are horses that never will be. - Andy Adams

                                Comment


                                • #56
                                  I would like to say that every horse is different when it comes to loading. What works for one, may not work for another. I have learned that trailer loading is probably the most dangerous thing you will ever do with your horse. If you are going to be inside the trailer with a horse (especially a nervous horse) make sure you can get out in a hurry. A nervous horse can freak out and try to get out any way they think they can, ie. the escape door that is meant for people. If the horse is freaked out and comes flying out the back, remember you could be seriously injured if you are in his/her way. They can also kick out at you in the process. What ever method you use, remember this and be CAREFUL! I have been pinned to the chest bar, and kicked by two different horses while just standing by the back of a trailer. One time I ended up in the ER. Not fun! I have also had sucess with trailer loading, but the point is, each horse is different and all the great suggestions may work for some or even most, but not all.
                                  "Humans will never devise an invention more beautiful, more simple,
                                  or more direct than does Nature." ~Leonardo da Vinci

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