• Welcome to the Chronicle Forums.
    Please complete your profile. The forums and the rest of www.chronofhorse.com has single sign-in, so your log in information for one will automatically work for the other. Disclaimer: The opinions expressed here are the views of the individual and do not necessarily reflect the views and opinions of The Chronicle of the Horse.

Announcement

Collapse

Forum rules and no-advertising policy

As a participant on this forum, it is your responsibility to know and follow our rules. Please read this message in its entirety.

Board Rules

1. You’re responsible for what you say.
As outlined in Section 230 of the Communications Decency Act, The Chronicle of the Horse and its affiliates, as well Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd., the developers of vBulletin, are not legally responsible for statements made in the forums.

This is a public forum viewed by a wide spectrum of people, so please be mindful of what you say and who might be reading it—details of personal disputes are likely better handled privately. While posters are legally responsible for their statements, the moderators may in their discretion remove or edit posts that violate these rules. Users have the ability to modify or delete their own messages after posting, but administrators generally will not delete posts, threads or accounts upon request.

Outright inflammatory, vulgar, harassing, malicious or otherwise inappropriate statements and criminal charges unsubstantiated by a reputable news source or legal documentation will not be tolerated and will be dealt with at the discretion of the moderators.

Credible threats of suicide will be reported to the police along with identifying user information at our disposal, in addition to referring the user to suicide helpline resources such as 1-800-SUICIDE or 1-800-273-TALK.

2. Conversations in horse-related forums should be horse-related.
The forums are a wonderful source of information and support for members of the horse community. While it’s understandably tempting to share information or search for input on other topics upon which members might have a similar level of knowledge, members must maintain the focus on horses.

3. Keep conversations productive, on topic and civil.
Discussion and disagreement are inevitable and encouraged; personal insults, diatribes and sniping comments are unproductive and unacceptable. Whether a subject is light-hearted or serious, keep posts focused on the current topic and of general interest to other participants of that thread. Utilize the private message feature or personal email where appropriate to address side topics or personal issues not related to the topic at large.

4. No advertising in the discussion forums.
Posts in the discussion forums directly or indirectly advertising horses, jobs, items or services for sale or wanted will be removed at the discretion of the moderators. Use of the private messaging feature or email addresses obtained through users’ profiles for unsolicited advertising is not permitted.

Company representatives may participate in discussions and answer questions about their products or services, or suggest their products on recent threads if they fulfill the criteria of a query. False "testimonials" provided by company affiliates posing as general consumers are not appropriate, and self-promotion of sales, ad campaigns, etc. through the discussion forums is not allowed.

Paid advertising is available on our classifieds site and through the purchase of banner ads. The tightly monitored Giveaways forum permits free listings of genuinely free horses and items available or wanted (on a limited basis). Items offered for trade are not allowed.

Advertising Policy Specifics
When in doubt of whether something you want to post constitutes advertising, please contact a moderator privately in advance for further clarification. Refer to the following points for general guidelines:

Horses – Only general discussion about the buying, leasing, selling and pricing of horses is permitted. If the post contains, or links to, the type of specific information typically found in a sales or wanted ad, and it’s related to a horse for sale, regardless of who’s selling it, it doesn’t belong in the discussion forums.

Stallions – Board members may ask for suggestions on breeding stallion recommendations. Stallion owners may reply to such queries by suggesting their own stallions, only if their horse fits the specific criteria of the original poster. Excessive promotion of a stallion by its owner or related parties is not permitted and will be addressed at the discretion of the moderators.

Services – Members may use the forums to ask for general recommendations of trainers, barns, shippers, farriers, etc., and other members may answer those requests by suggesting themselves or their company, if their services fulfill the specific criteria of the original post. Members may not solicit other members for business if it is not in response to a direct, genuine query.

Products – While members may ask for general opinions and suggestions on equipment, trailers, trucks, etc., they may not list the specific attributes for which they are in the market, as such posts serve as wanted ads.

Event Announcements – Members may post one notification of an upcoming event that may be of interest to fellow members, if the original poster does not benefit financially from the event. Such threads may not be “bumped” excessively. Premium members may post their own notices in the Event Announcements forum.

Charities/Rescues – Announcements for charitable or fundraising events can only be made for 501(c)(3) tax-exempt organizations. Special exceptions may be made, at the moderators’ discretion and direction, for board-related events or fundraising activities in extraordinary circumstances.

Occasional posts regarding horses available for adoption through IRS-registered horse rescue or placement programs are permitted in the appropriate forums, but these threads may be limited at the discretion of the moderators. Individuals may not advertise or make announcements for horses in need of rescue, placement or adoption unless the horse is available through a recognized rescue or placement agency or government-run entity or the thread fits the criteria for and is located in the Giveaways forum.

5. Do not post copyrighted photographs unless you have purchased that photo and have permission to do so.

6. Respect other members.
As members are often passionate about their beliefs and intentions can easily be misinterpreted in this type of environment, try to explore or resolve the inevitable disagreements that arise in the course of threads calmly and rationally.

If you see a post that you feel violates the rules of the board, please click the “alert” button (exclamation point inside of a triangle) in the bottom left corner of the post, which will alert ONLY the moderators to the post in question. They will then take whatever action, or no action, as deemed appropriate for the situation at their discretion. Do not air grievances regarding other posters or the moderators in the discussion forums.

Please be advised that adding another user to your “Ignore” list via your User Control Panel can be a useful tactic, which blocks posts and private messages by members whose commentary you’d rather avoid reading.

7. We have the right to reproduce statements made in the forums.
The Chronicle of the Horse may copy, quote, link to or otherwise reproduce posts, or portions of posts, in print or online for advertising or editorial purposes, if attributed to their original authors, and by posting in this forum, you hereby grant to The Chronicle of the Horse a perpetual, non-exclusive license under copyright and other rights, to do so.

8. We reserve the right to enforce and amend the rules.
The moderators may delete, edit, move or close any post or thread at any time, or refrain from doing any of the foregoing, in their discretion, and may suspend or revoke a user’s membership privileges at any time to maintain adherence to the rules and the general spirit of the forum. These rules may be amended at any time to address the current needs of the board.

Please see our full Terms of Service and Privacy Policy for more information.

Thanks for being a part of the COTH forums!

(Revised 2/8/18)
See more
See less

Trailer UNloading Question

Collapse
X
  • Filter
  • Time
  • Show
Clear All
new posts
  • Original Poster

    #21
    Thanks again everyone. Just an FYI, he does not have any problems backing one step at a time on the ground, from the washrack, etc, right now it is just the trailer. Even if I lead him in and back him out, he is in a hurry to get off, and any pressure on his head right now just increases his speed backwards.

    And of course today we got some much needed rain, so no trailer training today. I didn't want to add a slippery floor into the training equation.

    I do like the idea of the "feed bucket backing". Actually I was thinking of loading the corner feeder in the trailer, let him eat a few bites and then ask him to back out slowly, because of course his mind will be more on the grain in the feeder vs getting out of the trailer (he is very food motivated).

    I will tell you that force (such as the lunge line through the window) does not work well with this horse, he is much easier to deal with using patience, and once he understands what you want of him he is very good.

    He is loading quite well, it is just the unloading that we need to work on, good thing I have 6 weeks to work on it.
    There are friends and faces that may be forgotten, but there are horses that never will be. - Andy Adams

    Comment


    • #22
      When you are doing the one step at a time loading, don't use the whip to tell him to go forward. Change that to just a light nudge on the halter. Your goal is to be able to load one foot, back off, load 2 feet, back off, load 2 feet, stop, then ask for another forward using a light halter nudge. Stop, back off. You need to train him that the "signal" to step forward is the halter, not the whip, but never steady pressure. Eventually, when he is in, you an use a halter nudge to make him step up closer to the chest bar. At that point, you can probably put a feather light nudge or two on the rope while he is unloading to make him stop and reload. Definitely always relaod after a fast unload, and always praise.

      Comment


      • #23
        I think you are actually safer standing outside the trailer with the lead over his withers than you would be if you were on there with him. I would not want a lead going to the front, out a door, or to give anything for the horse to pull against. That's a recipe for disaster, even with a lunge line.

        I agree with Simkie. Get him moving forward and backward on cue, not when he feels like it. On the ramp, near the ramp, through a barn door, over a ground pole, everywhere but in the trailer at first. I like to have a visible whip so that I can lift it behind them and they see it. Once trained, they know this is either a signal to move forward or to stop moving backwards.

        Perhaps you should take treats out of the equation at this point. The end of the treats seems to be his signal to get the heck out of there. Hay would be fine. Treats? Not so much, since they appear to be part of the problem. When he stops rocketing backward, you can have treats waiting for him on the trailer again.

        To me, having the right whip helps. I've got a carrot stick (firm and can be used for pushing), a red driving whip, and a white wand (slightly longer than a dressage whip). Horses quickly get used to me raising the whip behind them to tell them to stop backing up. If they don't stop, I touch them with the whip. As soon as possible, we revert back to very light cues or visual cues (raising the whip without touching them). Eventually, I don't even need a whip, and they respond to me raising my hand.

        Oh, one other tip. When approaching the trailer, I'd move him forward one step at a time and wait until he shows signs of relaxing before moving him on. It sounds like he's very tense.
        "Passion without knowledge is a runaway horse."

        Comment


        • #24
          Originally posted by Fairview Horse Center View Post
          When you are doing the one step at a time loading, don't use the whip to tell him to go forward. Change that to just a light nudge on the halter. Your goal is to be able to load one foot, back off, load 2 feet, back off, load 2 feet, stop, then ask for another forward using a light halter nudge. Stop, back off. You need to train him that the "signal" to step forward is the halter, not the whip, but never steady pressure. Eventually, when he is in, you an use a halter nudge to make him step up closer to the chest bar. At that point, you can probably put a feather light nudge or two on the rope while he is unloading to make him stop and reload. Definitely always relaod after a fast unload, and always praise.
          Agree with this method. I would also stop using treats immediately. It sounds like he's learned that he only has to go in to eat treats, then if he unloads himself, there will be more treats waiting for him when he gets back on the trailer... He needs to learn to load & unload, period, without any other "motivation" than being asked to load & unload, and complying with that request.

          On the same theory as cross-tying a nervous horse with his tail to the wall so he can't back up, I have found that it sometimes helps nervous loaders to back the trailer up to a solid wall of some sort, with about 12 feet between the wall and the trailer opening. They feel more enclosed and are less likely to run backwards - or at least they will stop much more quickly when they do, so you can get them in hand faster & load them back up.
          Blugal

          You never know what kind of obsessive compulsive crazy person you are until another person imitates your behaviour at a three-day. --Gry2Yng

          Comment


          • #25
            There're many ways to accomplish what the OP wants. Let's hope there is a method in here that will work for her and the horse. I do like lightly signalling on the halter to move forward, especially with nervous loaders. But there is a point when the horse is too far forward for the handler to bump the halter, and then the horse has to respond to being asked from beside or behind. The same cue for "move forward" can be used for "stop backing up."

            BTW, I train mine to wait for a tug on the tail before they back up.
            Last edited by matryoshka; Jan. 12, 2009, 06:07 PM. Reason: Grammar
            "Passion without knowledge is a runaway horse."

            Comment


            • #26
              "I will tell you that force (such as the lunge line through the window) does not work well with this horse,..."

              Just to clarify, I'm not meaning to advocate use of force. It's meant to be a 'steadying influence.' Which is to say, a horse that might take a step back and feels that the longe line is there would (assuming he doesn't have any tying issues) cease to move backward while one is reinforcing the desired whoa from the rear.

              Comment


              • #27
                Originally posted by MunchkinsMom View Post
                Thanks again everyone. Just an FYI, he does not have any problems backing one step at a time on the ground, from the washrack, etc, right now it is just the trailer. Even if I lead him in and back him out, he is in a hurry to get off, and any pressure on his head right now just increases his speed backwards.
                My guy did the same thing with pressure on the head...so I waited until he had cleared the trailer door to add the pressure to his halter to come back forward. I used a long lunge line and I stood in the trailer, in front of the chest bar (with the escape door open). It is almost like he has a switch that gets flipped. Once the 'get off the trailer NOW' switch gets flipped, he was going backwards. If he hadn't gotten there yet, I could ask him to come forward with pressure on the lead with no problems.

                Once he was outside of the trailer, I could ask him to come forward with just pressure on the lead. So...we practiced, he would come forward into the trailer and wait. I ALWAYS tried to make sure I backed him up BEFORE he decided to leave. If he backed up off the trailer nicely, we left the trailer, and got to graze for a few seconds (or quit for the day). If he choose to fly backwards, then he would have to come back on the trailer, ad I would ask him to back out nicely again.

                The strategy we used would *not* work on a horse that was prone to rearing, but my horse wasn't. He also wasn't afraid of coming into the trailer, but just blew out in A BIG hurry, just as you described. It was very, very scary.

                Even now, when I back him out (and after several months of this, I unclip, drop the butt bar, then come back around to back him out), he STILL has to back out 1 foot at a time. If he backs out too quickly, he comes RIGHT back on.

                Using a lunge was really helpful, as it allowed him to be able to back off the trailer, and me still have connection to him, so he couldn't just leave.
                Never argue with an idiot. They will bring you down to their level, and then beat you with experience.

                Comment


                • #28
                  Originally posted by matryoshka View Post
                  BTW, I train mine to wait for a tug on the tail before they back up.
                  Mine get a light tap just above the tail and a verbal 'okay' to exit. Several seconds after the butt bar comes down.

                  Comment


                  • #29
                    I just wanted to wish you good luck in your training OP!

                    Your post reminded me of a pony I had when I was younger that would fly off the trailer and it got so bad that as soon as the trailer stopped she would start ramming her butt into the back of the trailer. Pretty scary stuff! The only way we were able to unload her was to haul her in a two-horse slant trailer then we would just put the lead rope around her neck and she'd turn herself around and quietly walk off like a queen.

                    So, I just wanted to give you my full support because we too had a hard time finding a solution to the super speed back-off issue. (granted my pony was 27 at the time )

                    Comment


                    • #30
                      Originally posted by grayarabpony View Post
                      Put a chain over his nose to get his attention. Then reward him with a carrot when he listens.
                      No.

                      Light halter nudges are fine as some suggested, but steady head pressure of any type= bad bad. You will undo your loading success you've done so far the moment that horse runs into a situation where he's fighting for his head. Then you'll have real problems on your hands.

                      I haven't used a straight haul in years, but I have had a few in a hurry get me out ponies back then. It's a struggle and yep frakly it's exactly what many have suggested, a boredom game- for you.. one foot in, out.. two feet in..out. so that either being in/going in/being out/going out has about the same amount of excitement for him - nil.
                      Originally posted by ExJumper
                      Sometimes I'm thrown off, sometimes I'm bucked off, sometimes I simply fall off, and sometimes I go down with the ship. All of these are valid ways to part company with your horse.

                      Comment


                      • #31
                        Put a chain over his nose to get his attention. Then reward him with a carrot when he listens.

                        Quote by me


                        Originally posted by rainechyldes View Post
                        No.

                        Light halter nudges are fine as some suggested, but steady head pressure of any type= bad bad. You will undo your loading success you've done so far the moment that horse runs into a situation where he's fighting for his head. Then you'll have real problems on your hands.

                        I haven't used a straight haul in years, but I have had a few in a hurry get me out ponies back then. It's a struggle and yep frakly it's exactly what many have suggested, a boredom game- for you.. one foot in, out.. two feet in..out. so that either being in/going in/being out/going out has about the same amount of excitement for him - nil.
                        Yes.

                        My horse has always loaded fine, but developed a short term problem of running out backward. How do you think I stopped him? See above.

                        You don't let a horse run out backward when you are holding the end of a lead rope -- and as I and a few others have suggested, this is currently a 2 person job.

                        Comment


                        • #32
                          I'll use a chain on the nose with horses who pull, spin, or rear. For me, it's safety so the horse does not get away. I don't use it to ask the horse to come forward. And, if you use it to try to get them to stop backing up, they are likely to go up. So why use it on a horse who rears? I like to be able to get their attention. I also don't liked to get slapped by front feet. I prefer a stallion chain with a leather lead. The chain goes all the way around the nose and snaps back to itself. This provides even pressure and allows an immediate release.

                          If the horse were flying off the trailer backwards and then spinning to get away, a chain might be appropriate. But it's always best to use the lightest tool for the job.

                          An alternative to a chain shank is a rope halter.
                          "Passion without knowledge is a runaway horse."

                          Comment


                          • #33
                            Originally posted by matryoshka View Post
                            I'll use a chain on the nose with horses who pull, spin, or rear. For me, it's safety so the horse does not get away. I don't use it to ask the horse to come forward. And, if you use it to try to get them to stop backing up, they are likely to go up. So why use it on a horse who rears? I like to be able to get their attention. I also don't liked to get slapped by front feet. I prefer a stallion chain with a leather lead.
                            I do the same, but usually I have a cotton lead on in addition. I like to have something I can "annoy" them with. I do what I call "bouncing the head" when standing in the trailer, and asking them to come to me. I give little short tugs and releases, that makes them just move their nose forward slightly in a relaxed, but fast rhythm - hard to explain, but I just kind of bounce it slightly (2") forward. It works the same as it did when you were a kid and did the pole/poke/poke on your mom's arm to get her attention. I pretty much use the same rhythem.

                            Bounce the head, keep their eyes (brain) in the trailer, & move the feet. But I don't allow them to get rude (running over me, rearing, dragging away, kicking). I don't care how long it takes, or if they take a step and go right back, as long as when I say move their feet, they do in a somewhat forward, or sideways direction.

                            I annoy them on both ends, until they get in the trailer. Just remember with a stubborn loader, that just like mom, you will get what you want, just after they get really annoyed and agitated. That is not the time to give them a break.

                            Comment


                            • #34
                              I admit to having used two leads at the same time on one horse for the same reasons as Fairview. A lot depends on whether I'm there to get a horse who refuses to load onto a trailer to take him somewhere or whether I'm trying to train him to self load. With self loading, once their head is on the trailer, you can't bump the halter. If it is a difficult loader and I have help, somebody can continue to bump a halter or just stand in the front of the trailer while I'm on the ground outside. It all depends on the horse's reaction to the situation.

                              Failing the two-shank deal, I'll just bump the halter with my hand.

                              If I'm there to specifically to load a difficult horse, I tell people I subscribe to the "slow method," which is to wait until the horse relaxes at each stage before asking him to move forward again. This is usually quicker than the "fast method" (seems to involve continuous clucking and cueing and pushing to get the horse on there). Sometimes the hardest part of loading a difficult horse is getting well meaning helpers to back off and let the horse relax.
                              "Passion without knowledge is a runaway horse."

                              Comment


                              • #35
                                Originally posted by matryoshka View Post
                                If I'm there to specifically to load a difficult horse, I tell people I subscribe to the "slow method," which is to wait until the horse relaxes at each stage before asking him to move forward again. This is usually quicker than the "fast method" (seems to involve continuous clucking and cueing and pushing to get the horse on there). Sometimes the hardest part of loading a difficult horse is getting well meaning helpers to back off and let the horse relax.
                                Yes, you have to let them breathe for a bit after each good response, even if just a step forward, and 2 back. I kind of "coach" my helpers by using my voise "directed" to the horse. A quick, "GOOD, good, just stand and look for a second", helps my helpers to follow what I need them to do.

                                A person loading has to read the horse so much to know when and if to change methods. Stubborn or nervous are treated totally differently.

                                Comment

                                • Original Poster

                                  #36
                                  Originally posted by Fairview Horse Center View Post
                                  Yes, you have to let them breathe for a bit after each good response, even if just a step forward, and 2 back. I kind of "coach" my helpers by using my voise "directed" to the horse. A quick, "GOOD, good, just stand and look for a second", helps my helpers to follow what I need them to do.

                                  A person loading has to read the horse so much to know when and if to change methods. Stubborn or nervous are treated totally differently.
                                  That really is the key, being able to read the horse and find out if it is fear, or stubborness, or whatever, and then adjust the training method accordingly.

                                  FYI - someone suggested a hay bag, which is a great idea except. . . . this horse had colic surgery for ileal impaction caused by ileal hypertrophy, and hay (of any kind) is not on his diet list ever again for the rest of his life. So I have corner feeders installed in the trailer, that I put his feed or treats into instead. So I have an added level of challenge to this task. It was the trailer loading coming home from the hospital that was a bad scene that is the reason I am in the process of re-training for trailer loading and unloading.

                                  He is very calm about getting in the trailer, no whip tapping needed.

                                  Trailer training has been put on hold while we are in the midst of some badly needed rain, but this gives me time to read all these posts, and put my thinking cap on.
                                  There are friends and faces that may be forgotten, but there are horses that never will be. - Andy Adams

                                  Comment


                                  • #37
                                    Originally posted by MunchkinsMom View Post
                                    FYI - someone suggested a hay bag, which is a great idea except. . . . this horse had colic surgery for ileal impaction caused by ileal hypertrophy, and hay (of any kind) is not on his diet list ever again for the rest of his life. So I have corner feeders installed in the trailer, that I put his feed or treats into instead. So I have an added level of challenge to this task. It was the trailer loading coming home from the hospital that was a bad scene that is the reason I am in the process of re-training for trailer loading and unloading.
                                    Aaah, another piece to the puzzle. Yep, you've got a tough situation, but it is one that can be worked with. If his backing up is related to fear on the horse's part, that requires some understanding and reassurance on your part. Force will make it worse, not better. Probably need tons of repetition until he feels safe again. Maybe the initial goal is to keep him from backing up so far when he zooms off. Then try to get him to stop earlier, and earlier, until he's looking to you for permission. For him, taking things "one step at a time" might be asking him to take fewer steps at a time.

                                    If you are good at reading your horse, then you will succeed. It may take some trial and error to figure out what works for both of you. You'll get him over his anxiety eventually.
                                    Last edited by matryoshka; Jan. 13, 2009, 04:05 PM.
                                    "Passion without knowledge is a runaway horse."

                                    Comment


                                    • #38
                                      Hay

                                      I've been following. Good luck to you and your horse. Mine had colic surgery two years ago and is totally fine now. Mine can however eat hay. That's tough, no hay! Again, good luck!
                                      Sorry! But that barn smell is my aromatherapy!
                                      One of our horsey bumper stickers! www.horsehollowpress.com
                                      Add Very Funny Horse Bumper Stickers on facebook

                                      Comment

                                      • Original Poster

                                        #39
                                        This thread has been very helpful. Training is taking a slight hiatus due to some much needed rainfall!

                                        I like the idea of gradually shortening how far he backs off until we get the "one step at a time" achieved.

                                        Which was pretty much how I trained him to load:
                                        day 1 - stand quietly at the end of the ramp, touches nose to ramp.
                                        day 2 - puts two front feet on ramp
                                        day 3 - get all four feet on ramp, head into trailer
                                        day 4 - get two front feet into trailer
                                        day 5 - get all 4 feet into the trailer
                                        day 6 - leading into and out of the trailer without hesitation (he was rushing a bit on the backout).
                                        day 7 - partial self loading (two front feet), ended with leading him in and out to end the session.
                                        day 8 - self loading (divider swung to the side)
                                        day 9 - more self loading, standing longer in the trailer
                                        day 10 - self loading, with the divider in the middle, but rushing off - might be the "squeeze" factor of the divider. Moved the divider back over, but still rushing off.

                                        So that is the history of the retraining for loading, in case that helps.
                                        There are friends and faces that may be forgotten, but there are horses that never will be. - Andy Adams

                                        Comment


                                        • #40
                                          Is there any way you can turn the horse around and walk it off the trailer a few times? I'm not saying to do this INSTEAD of backing off all the time, but my mare used to get really nervous and a little scared when backing off, she was never sure there'd be something under the trailer (ie, the ground ) waiting for her, so she thought she was going to fall.

                                          A few times turning her around in a slant load, so she could SEE that yep, theres nice solid ground waiting for you off the trailer, she was much better even backing off.
                                          Tell a Gelding. Ask a Stallion. Discuss it with a Mare... Pray if it's a Pony!

                                          Comment

                                          Working...
                                          X