Bottle babies?

[kcmel]

I have never had a personal instance but I know in my heart that if I had a mare died during or relatively after birth, I would probably put the foal down.

It is just a crappy situation all around. If it happened in the wild the foal would die. Even in many other domestic animals, the young usually die if the mother passes. Reality is reality.

Well, in some cultures they do this (or did) with infants when the mother dies. So you could make the same argument with humans! But if you have the resources to care for an orphan, I don't understand why you wouldn't. It seems very hard-hearted to me.

[Epona142]

I agree...Just in the last three years I have bottle raised 15 puppies, 2 kittens, 2 calves, and an uncounted number of goats.

All turned out fine. One of the cats is currently at the vet getting the good snip snip. Well, and the calves ended up in the freezer.

This is not the wild and horses are not wild. We domesticated them and it's our responsibility to care for these creatures we have created.

But that is just my opinion.

[BeeHoney]

Raising an orphan foal is very different than raising orphan puppies, kittens, calves and goats. That's exactly the problem--people try to raise orphan foals the same way they would raise other types of orphaned animals. Also, the stakes are higher with a horse--an improperly socialized 1200 lb animal that normally engages in very rough play with it's friends is going to be quite dangerous to humans.

Still, I agree that it is for the most part inappropriate to euthanize an orphan foal. Rather, I think it is a better option to give it away to someone qualified to care for it if you aren't willing to do it yourself.

[Sillymoose]

Interesting thread. My gelding was not an orphan but was apparently "imprinted". Previous owner told me stories of him sleeping in her lap out in the field when he was a foal. Ugh. I feel like he's come a long way from where we started but even at fifteen he's still commonly referred to as rude. My current trainer calls him entitled. While he is far from dangerous, he has little respect for personal space and was often beat up in the pasture because he would constantly pester other horses until they kicked. He's just very independent, obnoxious, and cocky. Anyway, I was just surprised how familiar some of these characteristics sounded. He's in a great program now and is actually a really chill horse but he was quite the monster in the beginning. I would never want to deal with an imprinted horse again. Very frustrating.

[Beckham03]

I have a nmf who I didn't get until he was two. He was originally adopted by someone for 8 mos, then turned over to another rescue. I don't think he was treated great those 8 mos, when I met him at the rescue, they had gotten him healthy and had him living in a herd environment 24/7, learning to be a horse. I worked with him a bit and he can be a little pushy, but totally workable and quite smart.

I brought him home. He isn't spooky and is pretty self assured, lol. He is a brat when in the pasture with other young, goofy horses, but respects older horses and can read body language, which I was worried about.

He is 4 now and in training with a dressage trainer. He can be stubborn, but who knows if that is just him or because of his upbringing. He is quite smart and people oriented. He is a favorite among barn workers for being personable and not spooky about stuff. I would not have taken him any later and feel in the wrong hands, he could be crappy under saddle if he now wasn't treated like a horse.

I would get another one if I had the time to raise it on my terms with appropriate equine friends and not being treated as a dog. I just saw some at a rescue in the East and many were listed as cuddly. No thanks.

[Fred]

I have raised two 'bottle babies' and both turned out to be exceptional horses.
Brave, confident and outstanding athletes. I think they would have been the same however, if they had had their mothers.
The first baby I actually bottle fed. I had no experience with this before, but was determined. He was born the night my Dad died, the call came from my sister while I was in the barn with the mare and foal..
I could not save my father, but I put everything I had into this colt.
I remember one woman dismissively saying 'put him down, bottle raised foals never amount to anything'.
This colt went on to be an Advanced event horse AND a winning Grand Prix jumper.

I didn't fuss with him, but I did let him lean against me while he drank.. I felt it was important for him to have that contact. I also got a wonderful nanny goat for him, who was his companion in his stall and for turnout. As soon as the other babies were weaned they all went together, and there was never a problem.

The other did drink from a bucket, which was a lot easier on me..
He too turned out to be an exceptional individual.
It is hard work, but I cannot imagine anyone putting them down.
It is not their fault they are orphans - they already have a disadvantage, it is our job to raise them as best we can.
Like any foals they need boundaries and nurturing.

[Bluey]

I have raised two 'bottle babies' and both turned out to be exceptional horses.
Brave, confident and outstanding athletes. I think they would have been the same however, if they had had their mothers.
The first baby I actually bottle fed. I had no experience with this before, but was determined. He was born the night my Dad died, the call came from my sister while I was in the barn with the mare and foal..
I could not save my father, but I put everything I had into this colt.
I remember one woman dismissively saying 'put him down, bottle raised foals never amount to anything'.
This colt went on to be an Advanced event horse AND a winning Grand Prix jumper.

I didn't fuss with him, but I did let him lean against me while he drank.. I felt it was important for him to have that contact. I also got a wonderful nanny goat for him, who was his companion in his stall and for turnout. As soon as the other babies were weaned they all went together, and there was never a problem.

The other did drink from a bucket, which was a lot easier on me..
He too turned out to be an exceptional individual.
It is hard work, but I cannot imagine anyone putting them down.
It is not their fault they are orphans - they already have a disadvantage, it is our job to raise them as best we can.
Like any foals they need boundaries and nurturing.

Yes, we foaled some 30 mares some years, but only had one dogied foal.
Is not that common and I have not heard of anyone killing a foal that nothing is wrong with because it lost it's mother?

When the odd foal was left an orphan, the words got around with vets asking for any surrogate dam or to us.
We had a goat dairy and we did provide trained milk goats trained to jump on a bale and let a foal nurse, under supervision, they need to nurse gently, for the rare breeder that lost a foal and that made it easier to raise them.
Over many years we may have provided a small handful.

The trouble with raising dogied foals is that you have to provide milk every two hours, 24 hours a day, for the first few weeks and that is hard to manage, gets people worn out if they don't get help.

The one we had, we raised with an old gelding and later "weaned" with the rest and was fine, other than as non-reactive to his environment, really bombproof a horse as you ever saw, that we attributed to being raised without a mother to teach him to be more alert and watchy, to have some horse common sense, that means reacting somewhat to what is going on around them.

[Fred]

Yes it was hard work. For the first while during the day I fed him pretty much every 45-min to an hr, as he would with his dam.
At night I fed him every two hours, and yes, I was exhausted. Sometimes I fell asleep in the stall with him, leaning up against the wall. I was certainly sleep deprived.
If my husband was available to take a shift that helped tremendously. I literally dreamed of 4 hrs of unbroken sleep.
As he got older I extended the night time feedings to every 3 hrs. It was such a relief!
When I had the next orphan, I knew it was going to be hard, but having done it once, I knew I could do it again.

[Epona142]

Raising an orphan foal is very different than raising orphan puppies, kittens, calves and goats. That's exactly the problem--people try to raise orphan foals the same way they would raise other types of orphaned animals.

Actually, no.

I don't like a goat rudely in my space or jumping on me unless I invite the goat in. This would be extremely dangerous for me - most of the goats outweigh me and are stronger. I am very small. I expect my goats to be respectful of me and do as I ask. Our goats are hard working, well trained partners, just as one is a partner with their horse, not silly pets running all over your neighbor's car.

So they are raised from the beginning this way. No different than a horse. Yes, horses are larger, but proper handling in 95% of cases will get you a good horse. Just like proper handling gets you a respectful dairy goat that is a delight to be around and a dream to milk, right from the first freshening.

Can't paint us all with the same brush, after all, is all I'm saying.

There is, however, no denying that bottle raised animals are different. Not in a negative or positive light against a dam raised animal, just different.

[jenbrin]

I have a soon to be 6yr old mare who was an orphan only because she was injured during the birthing process therfore raised by a bottle and separate from mom.
She is attached to humans and is extremely jealous of my new foal (she's the baby) but other then that a good horse and easy to train. The trust/bond we have is more special than any bond I have had with another horse. Although, she drinks water like she Sucking on a bottle.

And anyone who would put down a foal who was perfectly healthy because mom passed away doesn't understand what goes into breeding both emotionally and finacially. For those people I say you don't know until you have walked in the other person's shoes.

[Pennywell Bay]

To me, it's disturbing to euthanize a foal because you have to bottle feed it. Even more so a rescue would. I wouldn't be donating anything to a rescue with those practices.

[Philippi]

I won't defend my opinion, as I have never been in the situation of having a orphan foal. But I have been taught and through experience have seen it to be for the best.

I did an intern at a very large breeding farm, 75 foals a year, I will not name. It was their procedure to put orphan foals down. Just wasn't possible to spare the staff. Giving the foals away always wasn't a good option because they do cause such great issues and the area didn't have a large population of those able to care for the animal. It was rare to put a newborn foal down, maybe one a year, and usually for a birth defect that caused the mare to pass.

Ultra sounds are a wonderful preventative measure to ensure owners have healthy foals. More should invest in better prenatal care for their mares. As was proven by the breeding farm.

At the rescue, a board of two vets, two farriers, one licensed trainer, two big donors/involved members made the decisions about what animals were euthanized. It doesn't get anymore educated than that.

[Epona142]

And other dairies drown male kids at birth or cut their throats. Doesn't make it the "right" thing to do so much as the most efficient based on time/effort/reward. Just a different way of doing things.

But we all have our way of looking at the world, no denying that.

[Fred]

One of my bottle babies.
He turned out very well, and I could not be prouder of him.

https://www.facebook.com/11940569739...type=3&theater

[Fred]

I won't defend my opinion, as I have never been in the situation of having a orphan foal. But I have been taught and through experience have seen it to be for the best.

I did an intern at a very large breeding farm, 75 foals a year, I will not name. It was their procedure to put orphan foals down. Just wasn't possible to spare the staff. Giving the foals away always wasn't a good option because they do cause such great issues and the area didn't have a large population of those able to care for the animal. It was rare to put a newborn foal down, maybe one a year, and usually for a birth defect that caused the mare to pass.

Ultra sounds are a wonderful preventative measure to ensure owners have healthy foals. More should invest in better prenatal care for their mares. As was proven by the breeding farm.

At the rescue, a board of two vets, two farriers, one licensed trainer, two big donors/involved members made the decisions about what animals were euthanized. It doesn't get anymore educated than that.

You "won't defend your opinion" and yet you go on to say that you "have been taught and through experience have seen it to be for the best"

You then make the statement "ultrasounds are a wonderful preventative measure to ensure owners have healthy foals. More should invest in better prenatal care for their mares"

Really, CA Greenwood?
Are you therefor implying that those of us who have had orphan foals have been at fault, remiss or neglectful? That we did not provide excellent prenatal care?
Ultrasounds have their place of course, but they cannot prevent in any way many of the situations that result in orphan foals.

Some may not want to invest the time and money and effort in raising an orphan foal, but please do not make those considerations your basis for judging others, who put the life of the foal ABOVE that.

And, please do not imply that the rest of us are not "educated".

[Bluey]

This was our orphan foal, a long story how he was born and orphaned.

We were working cattle that morning and a friend drove to headquarters at daylight.
He used to work here and had foaled many mares, that gave birth out in the pasture.

As he drove up, the mares were coming in from the pasture and one was walking off down behind the dam and looked to be starting labor, so he walked over to see that all was ok.
She had this very nice bit, strapping bright sorrel colt with a lot of white on him, all was fine and the friend came to the house then and told us all about it.

We went down to see the foal and, surprise, there were two mares there and they had given birth at the same time and they had mixed the foals, because now this one foal with the white on him was nursing the other mare and this other mostly sorrel foal was nursing the mare the friend just saw giving birth!

Well, all seemed fine with everyone, so we left them alone.

Three days later, that one mare with now the solid colored colt didn't come in, we went looking for her and looks like she had a uterine artery break and died on the spot, the foal was still with her and we took him back to the house.

At the house we put him with a 23 year old gelding and they bonded right away, the gelding was nice to the foal trying to nurse, which we provided from a bottle.
The gelding raised that foal, but let him be a little of a pest to other horses, which a mare may not have done, his real dam definitely not, she was more of a serious, grumpy type.
We thought about trying to put both foals on her, her original one and the one she claimed and now was raising, but we knew she was not one to be too nice to others, maybe not the best idea to even try.
Some other very sweet dam may have accepted two, but not her grumpiness.

Once grown, the foal was nice to humans, not pushy, but liked to play "smart" games with you and was very non-reactive and did have some personality quirks that generally are found in orphan foals once grown.
We kept him as one of our ranch horses until he was ten and a friend wanted him very bad for an arena roping horse and he kept him the rest of his life doing just that.

He is the sorrel in this picture, visiting with some bulls:

[Fred]

Another picture of one of my 'bottle babies'

https://www.facebook.com/11940569739...type=3&theater

[grayarabpony]

I raised an orphan from birth. He is very mouthy (in that he explores EVERYTHING with his mouth) and somewhat pushy but is basically like any other horse. He was always able to have contact with other horses and is well socialized.

He still sucks on his tongue when he is happy.

Blyth Tait's WEG winning mount Messiah was an orphan. His mother had no milk.

Gail I always think of your horse too when I think of successful orphans!

[Fred]

Thank you GAP.
Mine were a bit pushy and self confident too, but then so are all of mine - the many who were not bottle raised.
My first one used to smack his lips together when he saw us coming... hence the name 'Lips' which he still goes by.