• Welcome to the Chronicle Forums.
    Please complete your profile. The forums and the rest of www.chronofhorse.com has single sign-in, so your log in information for one will automatically work for the other. Disclaimer: The opinions expressed here are the views of the individual and do not necessarily reflect the views and opinions of The Chronicle of the Horse.

Announcement

Collapse

Forum rules and no-advertising policy

As a participant on this forum, it is your responsibility to know and follow our rules. Please read this message in its entirety.

Board Rules

1. You’re responsible for what you say.
As outlined in Section 230 of the Communications Decency Act, The Chronicle of the Horse and its affiliates, as well Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd., the developers of vBulletin, are not legally responsible for statements made in the forums.

This is a public forum viewed by a wide spectrum of people, so please be mindful of what you say and who might be reading it—details of personal disputes are likely better handled privately. While posters are legally responsible for their statements, the moderators may in their discretion remove or edit posts that violate these rules. Users have the ability to modify or delete their own messages after posting, but administrators generally will not delete posts, threads or accounts upon request.

Outright inflammatory, vulgar, harassing, malicious or otherwise inappropriate statements and criminal charges unsubstantiated by a reputable news source or legal documentation will not be tolerated and will be dealt with at the discretion of the moderators.

Credible threats of suicide will be reported to the police along with identifying user information at our disposal, in addition to referring the user to suicide helpline resources such as 1-800-SUICIDE or 1-800-273-TALK.

2. Conversations in horse-related forums should be horse-related.
The forums are a wonderful source of information and support for members of the horse community. While it’s understandably tempting to share information or search for input on other topics upon which members might have a similar level of knowledge, members must maintain the focus on horses.

3. Keep conversations productive, on topic and civil.
Discussion and disagreement are inevitable and encouraged; personal insults, diatribes and sniping comments are unproductive and unacceptable. Whether a subject is light-hearted or serious, keep posts focused on the current topic and of general interest to other participants of that thread. Utilize the private message feature or personal email where appropriate to address side topics or personal issues not related to the topic at large.

4. No advertising in the discussion forums.
Posts in the discussion forums directly or indirectly advertising horses, jobs, items or services for sale or wanted will be removed at the discretion of the moderators. Use of the private messaging feature or email addresses obtained through users’ profiles for unsolicited advertising is not permitted.

Company representatives may participate in discussions and answer questions about their products or services, or suggest their products on recent threads if they fulfill the criteria of a query. False "testimonials" provided by company affiliates posing as general consumers are not appropriate, and self-promotion of sales, ad campaigns, etc. through the discussion forums is not allowed.

Paid advertising is available on our classifieds site and through the purchase of banner ads. The tightly monitored Giveaways forum permits free listings of genuinely free horses and items available or wanted (on a limited basis). Items offered for trade are not allowed.

Advertising Policy Specifics
When in doubt of whether something you want to post constitutes advertising, please contact a moderator privately in advance for further clarification. Refer to the following points for general guidelines:

Horses – Only general discussion about the buying, leasing, selling and pricing of horses is permitted. If the post contains, or links to, the type of specific information typically found in a sales or wanted ad, and it’s related to a horse for sale, regardless of who’s selling it, it doesn’t belong in the discussion forums.

Stallions – Board members may ask for suggestions on breeding stallion recommendations. Stallion owners may reply to such queries by suggesting their own stallions, only if their horse fits the specific criteria of the original poster. Excessive promotion of a stallion by its owner or related parties is not permitted and will be addressed at the discretion of the moderators.

Services – Members may use the forums to ask for general recommendations of trainers, barns, shippers, farriers, etc., and other members may answer those requests by suggesting themselves or their company, if their services fulfill the specific criteria of the original post. Members may not solicit other members for business if it is not in response to a direct, genuine query.

Products – While members may ask for general opinions and suggestions on equipment, trailers, trucks, etc., they may not list the specific attributes for which they are in the market, as such posts serve as wanted ads.

Event Announcements – Members may post one notification of an upcoming event that may be of interest to fellow members, if the original poster does not benefit financially from the event. Such threads may not be “bumped” excessively. Premium members may post their own notices in the Event Announcements forum.

Charities/Rescues – Announcements for charitable or fundraising events can only be made for 501(c)(3) tax-exempt organizations. Special exceptions may be made, at the moderators’ discretion and direction, for board-related events or fundraising activities in extraordinary circumstances.

Occasional posts regarding horses available for adoption through IRS-registered horse rescue or placement programs are permitted in the appropriate forums, but these threads may be limited at the discretion of the moderators. Individuals may not advertise or make announcements for horses in need of rescue, placement or adoption unless the horse is available through a recognized rescue or placement agency or government-run entity or the thread fits the criteria for and is located in the Giveaways forum.

5. Do not post copyrighted photographs unless you have purchased that photo and have permission to do so.

6. Respect other members.
As members are often passionate about their beliefs and intentions can easily be misinterpreted in this type of environment, try to explore or resolve the inevitable disagreements that arise in the course of threads calmly and rationally.

If you see a post that you feel violates the rules of the board, please click the “alert” button (exclamation point inside of a triangle) in the bottom left corner of the post, which will alert ONLY the moderators to the post in question. They will then take whatever action, or no action, as deemed appropriate for the situation at their discretion. Do not air grievances regarding other posters or the moderators in the discussion forums.

Please be advised that adding another user to your “Ignore” list via your User Control Panel can be a useful tactic, which blocks posts and private messages by members whose commentary you’d rather avoid reading.

7. We have the right to reproduce statements made in the forums.
The Chronicle of the Horse may copy, quote, link to or otherwise reproduce posts, or portions of posts, in print or online for advertising or editorial purposes, if attributed to their original authors, and by posting in this forum, you hereby grant to The Chronicle of the Horse a perpetual, non-exclusive license under copyright and other rights, to do so.

8. We reserve the right to enforce and amend the rules.
The moderators may delete, edit, move or close any post or thread at any time, or refrain from doing any of the foregoing, in their discretion, and may suspend or revoke a user’s membership privileges at any time to maintain adherence to the rules and the general spirit of the forum. These rules may be amended at any time to address the current needs of the board.

Please see our full Terms of Service and Privacy Policy for more information.

Thanks for being a part of the COTH forums!

(Revised 2/8/18)
See more
See less

Horse selling etiquette - thoughts?

Collapse
X
  • Filter
  • Time
  • Show
Clear All
new posts

  • #21
    As a seller, honestly who cares if locals have "first dibs?" It's not the seller's problem where the buyer lives. A 90 minute drive is not really that long in the big picture. I know several people who have daily commutes longer than that.

    You can give yourself a gold star for not showing a horse with out of towners coming, but yes it is naĂŻve to expect it of every one else.
    Visit my Spoonflower shop

    Comment


    • #22
      Proximity does not equal dibs, but the ability to see the horse in a timely fashion is. I bought my horse from 5+ hours away, but only made the appointment a day or two before my trip.

      A 1.5 hour drive does not constitute travel arrangements, it's an afternoon (or morning, or day) trip. It's not like you needed flights and hotel.

      It is assumed that the horse will be shown to any and all potential buyers, that doesn't need to be disclosed.

      How do you know the person who bought the horse spoke to the seller after you? Maybe they already had an appointment set?

      In the case where you were selling the horse, you were being extremely courteous, but if someone is flying in there are actual arrangements being made and a bigger investment to see the horse (potentially serious buyer) compared to a 1.5 hour drive.

      Comment


      • #23
        If a buyer is flying in, then I will take a deposit to hold the horse IF 1)the arrival date is in the near future, 2)it will be non-refundable if the buyer no shows or cancels for any reason, and 3) with the understanding that I can accept back-up offers. I have had people fly in and not buy the horse.

        A 90 minute car ride does not constitute long distance travel. There was no reason not to go sooner and video.
        Where Fjeral Norwegian Fjords Rule
        http://www.ironwood-farm.com

        Comment


        • #24
          Originally posted by rjanyk View Post
          I suppose that is my own naivety in thinking courtesy of transparency is a give in. ... But I also think if you would like to remain fair and reputable, it is in your best interest to disclose to ALL buyers that the horse will be shown regardless of appointments.
          I have to disagree. Neither "courtesy" nor "transparency" were lacking in this case. Because it is the well-known standard practice that a horse (or other item) for sale will be marketed continually, the seller has no obligation to inform a potential buyer of this fact; the seller is operating under the assumption that s/he is dealing with an educated/informed buyer who knows the standard practices. This is true everywhere, whether you are buying a horse, a car, a dress, a piece of furniture, whatever.

          And it is standard practice that it is the buyer's responsibility to request a different practice from the "continually marketed" model, and to back up that request with a good-faith deposit, with a contract clearly stating under what circumstances the deposit will or will not be refunded.

          As already mentioned, a common exception is when the distance is so great that air travel or a drive sufficient to require an overnight stay is involved. In such a case, it is common for a discussion to be initiated about a deposit to hold the horse until the long-distance visit can be arranged. Also as already noted, your 90-minute drive didn't qualify. In many areas, that is the daily commute to work for a lot of people!

          I don't think you are naive, per se, but merely ignorant of what is normal practice. Now you know and can act accordingly the next time you are not able to go try a horse immediately. Good luck finding a great horse that suits you perfectly.
          Equinox Equine Massage

          In the depth of winter, I finally learned that there was in me invincible summer.
          -Albert Camus

          Comment


          • #25
            I was all ready to type a long-winded response to the OP's last post, but now all I need to say is, "Yeah. What coloredhorse said."
            "Facts are meaningless. You can use facts to prove anything
            that's even remotely true."

            Homer Simpson

            Comment


            • #26
              Originally posted by coloredhorse View Post

              I don't think you are naive, per se, but merely ignorant of what is normal practice. Now you know and can act accordingly the next time you are not able to go try a horse immediately. Good luck finding a great horse that suits you perfectly.
              Agreed. If OP had an apt with a car dealership to see a used vehicle, or called about a couch on Craig's List and couldn't come see it for a week, I don't think the assumption would be that no other potential clients would be entertained/ the property would be temporarily off the market pending the appt.

              This is just ignorance of the standard practice in horse selling. The standard is to keep showing the horse unless there is a deposit (provided seller even agrees to one), so not stating that explicitly is not a failing of transparency or courtesy. The seller probably assumed OP knew how things were done. Now OP knows
              Proud Member Of The Lady Mafia

              Comment


              • #27
                Originally posted by TWH Girl View Post
                I believe it's courteous to let other potential buyers know there are others looking at the horse and he may sell prior to your appt. Yes, money talks, but no one has ever lost business from being courteous and it certainly helps ones reputation in this sometimes God awful horse business.
                you might think it's courteous, but I think it's a tactic and it puts me off. I immediately go on the defensive when a seller tells me that other people are interested, blah, blah, blah. Sell it to them, then. I WILL NOT be pressured. There are a bazillion other horses out there. If I want the horse that bad, I will ASK about putting a hold deposit down. I can't tell you how many horses had other people interested only to have it still on the market 6 months down the road.

                Originally posted by rjanyk View Post
                I suppose that is my own naivety in thinking courtesy of transparency is a give in.
                What you were given was the ability to go see a horse. That you couldn't do it sooner than 6 days away is not the seller's issue to work around.


                But I also think if you would like to remain fair and reputable,
                This has nothing to do with being fair and reputable. It has to do with selling horses, which means you continue to show a horse until you have a deposit or check in hand. It's the only way to actually get a horse sold.

                it is in your best interest to disclose to ALL buyers that the horse will be shown regardless of appointments. If a person is in a different city that requires travel arrangements, wouldn't it be decent to let the person know that if they wanted to be sure the horse was still available, they would need to put down a deposit? I see the first come first serve mentality, but then you are always going to have people who live in close proximity have first dibs. That person who is very interested and set up an apt with the seller would be at a disadvantage because of their location, even though they spoke to the seller first.
                If someone is really interested and really wants the horse, they will figure out how to get there ASAP. You are not a victim here. You just didn't value the horse enough to make it a priority. 1.5 hours is a drop in the travel bucket. I've bought two horses from 5 hours away. 10 hours in a car one day is a LONG trip...but in both cases, I wanted the horses.
                Keith: "Now...let's do something normal fathers and daughters do."
                Veronica: "Buy me a pony?"

                Comment


                • #28
                  Originally posted by NoSuchPerson View Post
                  I was all ready to type a long-winded response to the OP's last post, but now all I need to say is, "Yeah. What coloredhorse said."
                  Ditto.

                  Scheduling an appointment so far out is a message "if the horse is still available then, I'm interested". That's all it is.

                  Going forward, OP, make a note to ALWAYS CALL AND CONFIRM just before you head out the door to try a horse. It may have been sold since you last talked to the seller - even if it was the day before.

                  That's the standard you should expect. You may not agree with it, but it's the way things are.
                  Last edited by OverandOnward; Mar. 3, 2015, 12:48 AM.

                  Comment


                  • #29
                    A friend was horse shopping. I went as a second set of eyes. Horse was 5 hours away. Friend alerted seller when we left, and called again when we were about 1/2 hour out. Seller told friend another buyer had given them a credit card deposit over the phone (had not seen the horse yet) a few minutes ago so the horse would not be available for sale, but my friend was welcome to see him and put a back up non-refundable deposit. We did stop and see the horse (we were almost there) but my friend did not want to hand over a deposit under these circumstances. So we left after driving 5 hours. You are fortunate that the seller let you know before you drove the distance.

                    Comment


                    • #30
                      If you called a car dealership in the next town over on Monday about a car they had available and made an appointment to come see the car on Saturday, would you expect them to hold the car until Saturday or call you if another caller walked in the door? No. If they did call you to tell you someone else is looking at the car, would you believe them or think they were using high pressure tactics?

                      Ultimately, the seller wants to sell their horse. They're not going to put other buyers off unless they have some sort of cash in hand. And unless you ask them to "call me if you get another interested buyer," they aren't expected to let you know if someone else comes to look, not the least of which is because you might not believe them and think they are trying to press you into a sale, get turned off and walk away.

                      Actually, I think you should appreciate that at least the seller called you at least 24 hours before your appointment so you didn't just drive up there for no reason. Some sellers don't even do that.

                      Comment


                      • #31
                        If it's a nice one at a good price, move quickly. I too agree that the seller had no obligation to hold the horse for you.

                        Comment


                        • #32
                          The problem with notifying buyers about other buyers is that one man's "courtesy" is another man's "high pressure sales tactic". I've more than once tried to say to someone who liked a horse but didn't want to leave a deposit, "hey, I've got three more folks scheduled to see him this week" only to get a stink eye and a snarky "SURE there are." I had one person flat out call me liar.

                          So now I sure a heck don't volunteer that info, though if you ask I will tell you.
                          Phoenix Farm ~ Breeding-Training-Sales
                          Eventing, Dressage, Young Horses
                          www.phoenixsporthorses.com
                          Check out my new blog: http://califcountrymom.blogspot.com

                          Comment


                          • #33
                            Originally posted by rjanyk View Post

                            As the buyer with an appointment, wouldn't you assume the seller would notify you if other buyers were interested, in case you wanted to view it earlier than your scheduled appointment? I would have assumed the seller was not showing the horse to other buyers until you had your appointment if it was not mentioned to the buyer that others will be viewing it before then.

                            I know money speaks, but the buyer with the appointment could have easily placed a deposit as well, and isn't it common courtesy to let the buyer know other buyers will have an opportunity to purchase the horse if they don't move faster? As well, if a deposit was required to 'hold' the horse, shouldn't the buyer have had the right to come view the horse within the first couple of days when the previous buyer was still trying to decide if they wanted it, considering they did not put a deposit down?
                            If the buyer wanted the horse held for them for a week, the buyer would have said, "I would like to offer a non refundable deposit for you to hold this horse for a week."

                            Opportunity cost isn't free.

                            People always want to get in the car after the fact.
                            The Noodlehttp://tiny.cc/NGKmT&http://tiny.cc/gioSA
                            Jinxyhttp://tiny.cc/PIC798&http://tiny.cc/jinx364
                            Boy Wonderhttp://tiny.cc/G9290
                            The Hana is nuts! NUTS!!http://tinyurl.com/SOCRAZY

                            Comment


                            • #34
                              OP, I think you have been given lots of great advice here.

                              Originally posted by rjanyk View Post
                              But I also think if you would like to remain fair and reputable, it is in your best interest to disclose to ALL buyers that the horse will be shown regardless of appointments.
                              I am confused what is unfair and not reputable about doing business like every other business that sells things.
                              If you do not pay to put something on lay-away at Walmart they do not save it for you even if you call and say you are coming to buy it.
                              Heck, even buying a house includes a good faith deposit.


                              I know far more people who would consider a seller saying 'there are others looking you better put a deposit if you are interested' to be a pushy sales gimmick and not a FYI.

                              Comment

                              • Original Poster

                                #35
                                If the seller wanted to have the horse gone so quickly, wouldn't they have offered the buyer an opportunity to see the horse during the first two days when the original buyer had gone to look at the horse, but was still 'making up their mind', and had not placed a deposit?

                                Would it not be more beneficial to the seller to allow others to view the horse, even say they are interested, then still honoour the appointment scheduled, and then if two parties are interested, it would go to the highest offer?

                                Comment


                                • #36
                                  Originally posted by rjanyk View Post
                                  If the seller wanted to have the horse gone so quickly, wouldn't they have offered the buyer an opportunity to see the horse during the first two days when the original buyer had gone to look at the horse, but was still 'making up their mind', and had not placed a deposit?
                                  Did the seller really say "please don't come because I have a deposit"? Did the buyer even ask to see the horse anyway?

                                  Comment


                                  • #37
                                    Guess you have have never heard "A bird in hand is worth 2 in the bush."

                                    Sellers have "potential buyers" no show or cancel at the last minute ALL.THE.TIME. Unless you have made arrangements with the seller because you are flying in and have purchased non-refundable plane tickets OR you have put a deposit on the horse, you have no special rights to a horse that you have not even seen.

                                    Horses for sale are "first come, first serve" unless you have a different agreement with the seller. Accepting this fact will make your horse search much less frustrating for you (and for sellers that are dealing with you.)

                                    I once drove an hour and a half after confirming the appointment the evening before. Arrived and the seller said "which horse are you here to see?" Then said "oh, that horse was sold earlier this week." Gee, thanks for letting me know!

                                    Comment


                                    • #38
                                      Originally posted by RugBug View Post
                                      you might think it's courteous, but I think it's a tactic and it puts me off. I immediately go on the defensive when a seller tells me that other people are interested, blah, blah, blah. Sell it to them, then. I WILL NOT be pressured. There are a bazillion other horses out there. If I want the horse that bad, I will ASK about putting a hold deposit down. I can't tell you how many horses had other people interested only to have it still on the market 6 months down the road.

                                      What you were given was the ability to go see a horse. That you couldn't do it sooner than 6 days away is not the seller's issue to work around.

                                      This has nothing to do with being fair and reputable. It has to do with selling horses, which means you continue to show a horse until you have a deposit or check in hand. It's the only way to actually get a horse sold.

                                      If someone is really interested and really wants the horse, they will figure out how to get there ASAP. You are not a victim here. You just didn't value the horse enough to make it a priority. 1.5 hours is a drop in the travel bucket. I've bought two horses from 5 hours away. 10 hours in a car one day is a LONG trip...but in both cases, I wanted the horses.

                                      ^^^^^^^ THIS TOO^^^^^^^^
                                      Draumr Hesta Farm
                                      "Wenn Du denkst es geht nicht mehr, kommt von irgendwo ein kleines Licht daher"
                                      Member of the COTH Ignorant Disrepectful F-bombs!*- 2Dogs Farm

                                      Comment


                                      • #39
                                        Originally posted by RugBug View Post
                                        If someone is really interested and really wants the horse, they will figure out how to get there ASAP. You are not a victim here. You just didn't value the horse enough to make it a priority. 1.5 hours is a drop in the travel bucket. I've bought two horses from 5 hours away. 10 hours in a car one day is a LONG trip...but in both cases, I wanted the horses.
                                        Yup. When I bought my current horse, my trainer was in the city for a show. She looked at him Thursday, told me to come see him, and I drove up Friday after work. 7 hours, one way. I tried him Saturday and Sunday, then drove home Sunday night. He came home Monday.

                                        Comment


                                        • #40
                                          Originally posted by rjanyk View Post
                                          If the seller wanted to have the horse gone so quickly, wouldn't they have offered the buyer an opportunity to see the horse during the first two days when the original buyer had gone to look at the horse, but was still 'making up their mind', and had not placed a deposit?

                                          Would it not be more beneficial to the seller to allow others to view the horse, even say they are interested, then still honoour the appointment scheduled, and then if two parties are interested, it would go to the highest offer?

                                          You really just need to give up and accept that the seller in your case did nothing wrong.

                                          Whether or not the seller indicated that others were looking at the horse *might* be questioned by the minority, but if the buyer never asked, then the buyer never asked.

                                          For a horse offered publically for sale, why would you assume you were the only one interested?

                                          There was nothing rude, shady, abnormal, questionable about what the seller did. There are no straws to grasp here.

                                          Of the 35+ responses, after 1100 views, the very unified consensus is that the seller in your case followed standard practice for selling a horse. Very rarely on COTH do you see such agreement on any issue.
                                          Visit my Spoonflower shop

                                          Comment

                                          Working...
                                          X