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Horse shopping, what is reasonable to expect from seller

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  • Horse shopping, what is reasonable to expect from seller

    My horse is nearing retirement age, and I'm starting to shop around for a new mount. Been a long time since I've been horse shopping, and I'm running into a couple things and want to know if I'm being unreasonable.

    - It's very important to me that whatever horse I buy rides solo on the trail, but most sellers I contact won't let me try the horse on the trail without accompanying me. I get that they want to keep an eye on their property, but how am I supposed to determine the horse goes solo when he's got a buddy along?

    - On the subject of trail riding, a few sellers I've seen have the horse advertised as a trail horse, but have no access to trails for test riding. Is it unreasonable for me to ask them to trailer the horse somewhere I can ride it?

    - A few sellers don't want me to use my own tack on test rides. I feel like it's hard for me to get a good feel for the horse in foreign tack. So if my saddle fits ok, I'd like to test ride in my saddle. Unreasonable?

    - If the listed price doesn't say 'firm', is it unreasonable to assume it's negotiable? Is this something you should ask up front, or wait until you see the horse? I feel a bit like if I ask upfront, seller will think I'm just a tire kicker. And what is a reasonable offer? 10% less? 15%? 20%?

    - I want to see the horse be caught and led in. A few times seller has 'forgot' that, and the horse is waiting in the barn when I arrived, so I ask them to turn the horse back out again. Is that unreasonable? One lady was real annoyed because she knew he was going to drop and roll (seems he had been given a bath earlier).

    - Somebody told me I should always arrive at least 15 minutes before the designated time so as to catch the seller doing anything dishonest, like lunging the horse to tire him, or drugging him. Should I be doing this?

    I'm sure I'll think of more, but those are the biggies.

    Thanks.

  • #2
    Well, you could always watch sales videos of prospective horses being ridden solo on the trails. I have seen plenty of those.
    "The single biggest problem in communication is the illusion that it has taken place." -- George Bernard Shaw

    Comment

    • Original Poster

      #3
      Originally posted by RPM View Post
      Well, you could always watch sales videos of prospective horses being ridden solo on the trails. I have seen plenty of those.
      But then they weren't really alone? Somebody else had to be there filming.....

      Comment


      • #4
        If you think you have to arrive 15 minutes early to see if they are drugging the horse, you should not be dealing with that person. If you showed up early to see a horse of mine and followed me around to see if I was trying to do something to it, I would ask you to leave.
        I would not assume anything about the price. If it is more than you plan to pay, ask them if they would consider your price range. I wouldn't go try a horse that was more than I could pay. I will say to the seller, I see you have him priced at $10k, I can only pay $8k, are you interested in showing him to me?

        Do you often have trouble catching horses you want to ride? I do think it is slightly strange to ask that and I would not think it all that weird that they have the horse up and clean for you.
        I do think I would ask to go trail ride, we ask to go school xc sometimes. I can see why they would not let you go by yourself. I guess you have to decide if that is a deal breaker and tell the seller before you ever go.
        www.ncsporthorse.com

        Comment


        • #5
          Originally posted by myvalentine View Post
          My horse is nearing retirement age, and I'm starting to shop around for a new mount. Been a long time since I've been horse shopping, and I'm running into a couple things and want to know if I'm being unreasonable.

          - It's very important to me that whatever horse I buy rides solo on the trail, but most sellers I contact won't let me try the horse on the trail without accompanying me. I get that they want to keep an eye on their property, but how am I supposed to determine the horse goes solo when he's got a buddy along?

          Although not quite the same, you can ask that the owner accompanies you on foot, perhaps staying a good distance in front or behind. Honestly, having ridden many a barn sour horse, you don't need to ride too far out to tell if they are going to try to bolt back to the barn the second you turn around.

          - On the subject of trail riding, a few sellers I've seen have the horse advertised as a trail horse, but have no access to trails for test riding. Is it unreasonable for me to ask them to trailer the horse somewhere I can ride it?

          Absolutely not, if the main purpose of buying the horse is as a trail horse.


          - A few sellers don't want me to use my own tack on test rides. I feel like it's hard for me to get a good feel for the horse in foreign tack. So if my saddle fits ok, I'd like to test ride in my saddle. Unreasonable?

          Sorta. I have let people bring their own tack, but I have firmly told them "no" when it doesn't fit the horse, and that is MY decision, not theirs. I don't care if they're professional saddle fitters, if I say it doesn't fit, it doesn't fit.

          - If the listed price doesn't say 'firm', is it unreasonable to assume it's negotiable? Is this something you should ask up front, or wait until you see the horse? I feel a bit like if I ask upfront, seller will think I'm just a tire kicker. And what is a reasonable offer? 10% less? 15%? 20%?

          I would absolutely not make an actual offer before seeing the horse. It's okay to ask if the price is firm. (I prefer that over asking if it's flexible, for some reason...truly semantics, but I feel like it puts the seller in a better frame of mind. )

          If you get the vibe that the horse needs to move, but is still priced too high for you, it's okay to say something like "Before I come out and waste people's time, I want you to know that I only have $xx,xxx to spend right now. Is that in the range of what you would consider?"

          As for the actual percentage, there have been many, many threads on this, and a lot of it depends on the price of the horse. Making much of any sort of offer on a $1000 horse is kinda insulting. A horse with a $50k price tag usually has more wiggle room.


          - I want to see the horse be caught and led in. A few times seller has 'forgot' that, and the horse is waiting in the barn when I arrived, so I ask them to turn the horse back out again. Is that unreasonable? One lady was real annoyed because she knew he was going to drop and roll (seems he had been given a bath earlier).

          Not unreasonable, moderately annoying to the seller. Can you wait until AFTER the ride? As in, turn him out, chat with the seller for five minutes, and then try to catch him? True test of an easy to catch horse is whether they will let you catch them after they know they have already put their time in that day.

          - Somebody told me I should always arrive at least 15 minutes before the designated time so as to catch the seller doing anything dishonest, like lunging the horse to tire him, or drugging him. Should I be doing this?

          I think any smart-but-sneaky seller is going to give themselves more leeway than 10 minutes, honestly, so I'm not sure how helpful this "trick" is. Showing up any earlier would just be plain rude.

          I'm sure I'll think of more, but those are the biggies.

          Thanks.
          .

          Comment


          • #6
            I can see why they wouldn't want you to take the horse on a solo ride.Maybe you could ask them to either hike/bike/quad with you at least on a short test? Also, if they have a second horse and the horse seems like it could be a good fit, ask to go on a trail ride with them, then have one of you ride ahead, other one stays behind then catches up.

            Comment


            • #7
              Sounds like the best option for trying a horse solo on the trail is to have the owner walk on foot (obviously a shorter trail ride).

              In the first communication mention you are looking for a trail horse and will want to test said horse on the trails. Not sure of your location, but in many northern and eastern states right now is not a great time to trailer....I'd keep that in mind if you fall into this or a similar geographical location.

              I would not take on the liability of letting a potential buyer use tack on my horse that I did not know for certain fit the horse. Anyone can eyeball if a saddle fits, but without being looked at by someone licensed, it could pinch here or jab there on the horse without anyone knowing. I just see a whole host of possible bad endings with potential buyers claiming horse was misrepresented, horse possibly being injured, rider possibly being injured, etc. All because potential buyer's saddle looked to fit, but in reality did not.

              If horse's price is not in your budget, yes, be upfront about what you're budget is and ask if seller would still be interested in showing you the horse. There is no straight answer to negotiating prices. If your offer is insultingly low (i.e. I'd consider offering $1000 on a $1500 horse who is sound and did everything asked most likely an insulting offer to most) or the buyer is holding out for full price, you may lose the opportunity to buy the horse.

              If the possibility of not ending up with the horse and having to continue to look is off-putting to you, I'd factor that into my offer and as a result would most likely offer closer to asking price if not full price. If the horse meets all your needs, there is no rule against paying full price for a horse. We all like good deals, but some sellers can and do price horses very fairly and they are worth full price, especially if sound in mind and body.

              Good luck in your horse hunt!

              Comment


              • #8
                well hm i think it a little out of the ordinary that you would want to see it caught and brought in, so if thats what you want, i would be sure to request that beforehand instead of expecting it

                however, i think that a good solution to most of these is a 30 day trial period. that way you can see how the horse behaves when being brought in, you can test trail riding 100% solo, you can use your own tack, and you'll know what hes like not lunged or drugged.

                after you look at him and ride him a few times on site (and decide you like this one,) you can discuss a price, and ask for a 30 day trial where you can use him on your terms

                Comment


                • #9
                  Originally posted by myvalentine View Post
                  My horse is nearing retirement age, and I'm starting to shop around for a new mount. Been a long time since I've been horse shopping, and I'm running into a couple things and want to know if I'm being unreasonable.

                  - It's very important to me that whatever horse I buy rides solo on the trail, but most sellers I contact won't let me try the horse on the trail without accompanying me. I get that they want to keep an eye on their property, but how am I supposed to determine the horse goes solo when he's got a buddy along?

                  - On the subject of trail riding, a few sellers I've seen have the horse advertised as a trail horse, but have no access to trails for test riding. Is it unreasonable for me to ask them to trailer the horse somewhere I can ride it?

                  - A few sellers don't want me to use my own tack on test rides. I feel like it's hard for me to get a good feel for the horse in foreign tack. So if my saddle fits ok, I'd like to test ride in my saddle. Unreasonable?

                  - If the listed price doesn't say 'firm', is it unreasonable to assume it's negotiable? Is this something you should ask up front, or wait until you see the horse? I feel a bit like if I ask upfront, seller will think I'm just a tire kicker. And what is a reasonable offer? 10% less? 15%? 20%?

                  - I want to see the horse be caught and led in. A few times seller has 'forgot' that, and the horse is waiting in the barn when I arrived, so I ask them to turn the horse back out again. Is that unreasonable? One lady was real annoyed because she knew he was going to drop and roll (seems he had been given a bath earlier).

                  - Somebody told me I should always arrive at least 15 minutes before the designated time so as to catch the seller doing anything dishonest, like lunging the horse to tire him, or drugging him. Should I be doing this?

                  I'm sure I'll think of more, but those are the biggies.

                  Thanks.
                  -Take the horse out with owner and another horse. At some point during the ride, try to turn your horse back down the trail, away from his buddy. His response can be telling.

                  -No, if horse is advertised as a trail horse, they need to trailer that horse to a trail to be ridden. If I was looking at a jumping horse, I wouldn't buy it w/o riding it over fences.

                  -If your tack fits the horse, there is no reason why you couldn't use it. I already get a little nervous riding a new horse, especially so when the tack isn't familiar. Once I insisted on riding a horse I was trying in my own tack. It was a semi-qh western saddle. Horse was a 3 YO foundation bred AQHA filly. That poor thing spent most the trail ride with her back hunched waiting to buck. Tail wringing, head shaking...it wasn't until the owner clearly saw I wasn't having a good time, that he mentioned it could be the saddle. When we got back to the trailer, I pulled the saddle, hopped on bareback...different animal. Threw on his saddle. Horse was a dream. SADDLE FIT matters!

                  -Yes, I feel like unless they have FIRM, the price is always somewhat negotiable. I always pay what I think the horse is fairly worth. If that happens to be the asking price, I gladly pay it. I don't follow a certain percentage or anything. The only times I have been comfortable negotiating price is when the horse is obviously overpriced. If the asking price is outside your budget, don't even look.

                  I always ask them to keep the horses out. If they forget, I would certainly ask them to turn them back out and get them again. I would never work with a seller that got annoyed with any requests I made.

                  It's common advice to show up early. When I have sold horses, this was common practice, even though it annoyed me, b/c I WAS an honest seller, I understood where they were coming from and had nothing to hide, so why get upset?

                  Your instincts are right on. You are asking all the right questions. You just have to find the owner that really cares about finding a good match for their horse.

                  Comment


                  • #10
                    FWIW, all of the dishonest sellers I've known are aware of the "arrive early" trick- so they've lunged the crap out of Fluffy LONG before you arrive (so he's cool and dry when you see him- no sweat) and their sharps container is magically absent by that time, too.

                    I agree that requesting a trial is probably your best bet. I'd ask upfront if that's something they're open to, though, because many sellers aren't comfortable with it or will have conditions (ex: you must take out insurance for the duration of the trial). If a thorough trial is a dealbreaker for you, better to find out before you fall in love.

                    Comment

                    • Original Poster

                      #11
                      Thanks. I don't look at horses out of my price range. My question was more wondering if I would be an idiot to pay full price without asking first because this is what the seller expects. I mean, if seller has horse advertised at $5000 but will actually take $4500, obviously I want to pay $4500 even though I can afford $5000. Because who doesn't like to save money? And sometimes I see horses that seem to be priced a bit high (meaning still in my price range, but I don't think horse is worth that much), and I wonder if the seller priced them that way because they knew buyers are going to want to negotiate. But I'm never sure when the right time to ask about this is. Before I go see the horse or after?

                      There is a gal at my barn with a hard to catch horse. On a bad day can take her an hour to catch that little bugger. I do not want that behavior in my new horse. How else can I test for this behavior without seeing it firsthand? I always tell the seller I want to see horse being caught, but 3 different sellers have forgot and brought the horse in ahead of time.

                      I actually have asked a few sellers if they would do a trial or lease beforehand, and I have yet to find one that will. Is there some magic words to convince a seller this would be a good idea?

                      Comment


                      • #12
                        Regarding riding on the trail alone; no, I as a seller would not allow that. There is too much liability. I have in the past allowed a seller to take a horse a short ways up the road from the farm while I stood and watched, and have in the past taken sellers out on a trail with me. But no, there is no way I am letting a stranger take a horse out alone on a trail. Tack: you can use your tack as long as it fits. If it doesn't fit, no, you cannot use it. Catching horse: I have horses turned out in a twenty acre field in the summer; you'd better request it ahead of time because otherwise I am going to have the horse already brought in...it can be a hike to go get it and most buyers don't want to wait that long. I personally am not going to trailer anywhere for trails. I do have some trails around here, but even if I didn't I would figure that you could take the horse down the road to see how it would be off property. Alot of what you are asking for would be better found out with a trial...but not all sellers will allow a trial. As a seller, it really annoys me when people assume the posted price isn't the price for the horse; sometimes I will negotiate, usually indicated with the phrase "asking". But otherwise, no, the price, even if it doesn't the word firm, is the price. I try not to be annoyed by buyers asking me if I will come down on the price before seeing the horse, but usually say no...my feeling is that I have the horse priced fairly, and you haven't even taken the time to see if the horse is what you want. I am more likely to negotiate price when you are standing looking at the horse than I ever am over the phone ahead of time. And I agree--it depends on the price of the horse how much to negotiate, but I usually figure 10% is a reasonable amount. As far as showing up early, ten or fifteen minutes isn't really that early, but in my case, if you show up early, you will probably be left standing around waiting...because I will be finishing teaching a lesson, or similar...

                        Comment


                        • #13
                          I think there is a big difference in what is considered "normal" among the different disciplines when it comes to showing a sale horse. I'm one who prefers to arrive to find the horse out in the pasture and watch the owner catch it, groom, and tack it. The last horse I bought was a different situation since I bought the horse I was leasing, but the one before that, which was purchased as a trail riding/all-around horse, was presented to me in just that way. I arrived, watched the horse out in the pasture for 10 minutes or so while I talked with the seller, then she went and caught the horse.

                          I don't think any of the things you say you would like to do, OP, are so far beyond the norm that it would be weird to ask the seller to do. The seller might not want to accommodate your request, but they should have a good reason not to and shouldn't be offended by you asking.

                          As far as haggling over price, this is kind of a sore spot with me. On the rare occasion I sell an equine, I research the market and price the equine fairly. Will I take less than my asking price? Sometimes. But not always and if you low-ball me, I'll be annoyed. And when buying a horse, I don't automatically assume I should be able to bargain the price down. Again, I research the market, decide what I'm willing to pay for the horse I want, and if I think the asking price is fair, I pay it. I paid full asking price for the last horse I bought because he was exactly what I was looking for and I felt the price was fair.
                          "Facts are meaningless. You can use facts to prove anything
                          that's even remotely true."

                          Homer Simpson

                          Comment


                          • #14
                            Originally posted by myvalentine View Post
                            My horse is nearing retirement age, and I'm starting to shop around for a new mount. Been a long time since I've been horse shopping, and I'm running into a couple things and want to know if I'm being unreasonable.

                            - It's very important to me that whatever horse I buy rides solo on the trail, but most sellers I contact won't let me try the horse on the trail without accompanying me. I get that they want to keep an eye on their property, but how am I supposed to determine the horse goes solo when he's got a buddy along?

                            - On the subject of trail riding, a few sellers I've seen have the horse advertised as a trail horse, but have no access to trails for test riding. Is it unreasonable for me to ask them to trailer the horse somewhere I can ride it?

                            - A few sellers don't want me to use my own tack on test rides. I feel like it's hard for me to get a good feel for the horse in foreign tack. So if my saddle fits ok, I'd like to test ride in my saddle. Unreasonable?

                            - If the listed price doesn't say 'firm', is it unreasonable to assume it's negotiable? Is this something you should ask up front, or wait until you see the horse? I feel a bit like if I ask upfront, seller will think I'm just a tire kicker. And what is a reasonable offer? 10% less? 15%? 20%?

                            - I want to see the horse be caught and led in. A few times seller has 'forgot' that, and the horse is waiting in the barn when I arrived, so I ask them to turn the horse back out again. Is that unreasonable? One lady was real annoyed because she knew he was going to drop and roll (seems he had been given a bath earlier).

                            - Somebody told me I should always arrive at least 15 minutes before the designated time so as to catch the seller doing anything dishonest, like lunging the horse to tire him, or drugging him. Should I be doing this?

                            I'm sure I'll think of more, but those are the biggies.

                            Thanks.
                            My daughter is selling her very nice Paso mare so in response:

                            Riding: My daughter would go out on her other horse with you and long enought o go to trails. If you have a clue about riding you can then ride away from her and her horse. How ar you want to go and at what gaits will be dependent on how well you are getting along with the horse but riding away from the buddy on a trail should tell you how good the mare is. My daughter would also offer to canter away from you and leave the mare behind, mare is that good.

                            Price: that would depend on the seller. Daughter's mare is everything she is advertised she is, so not much if any negotiation on the price. If you find holes in the horse or the horse has been on the market a long time then yes.

                            Sellers tack, if it will fit that would be fine! The mare has been rode english and western and advertized as such so no problem there. The bit, bitless bridle if offered would be examined and vetoed if too harsh, mare is very light mouthed and ridable in just a halter and lead. My daughter would want to be sure you have a save and properlly adjusted bridle that will work for the mare if you buy her so bringing you tack would be a plus.

                            Catching: If you told my daughter you wanted to catch the horse she would let you. She is a college student and lacks free time but if that was one of your stipulations when on the phone then it would not be a problem. If you arrived after my daughter you may find the mare already standing by the fence waiting to be caught. She knows the vehicle my daughter is driving. lol I know she would have no problem turning the mare loose and catching her again.

                            Just a side note. daughter's Paso is ready to go do a 25 mile ride fast or a slower 50. She is fit! Lunging her would do nothing to improve her riding. One thing to look at is the fitness of a horse and its willingness to go forward when you ride. Even it is to be a slow trail horse you want a responsive broke horse that will willingly go whatever pace you decide. Not something so out of shape or worn out that it refuses to go forward or you need to work at getting a forward response.

                            In all my years of horse ownership and selling I did have one really different potential buyer. She came out in the middle of winter to look at a green pony (14 hands). She wanted to saddle him and did. Poor horse acted a bit off when she went to mount. I asked her to get off. She had brought out a western saddle and managed to girth it with the off side stirrup under the girth. Sweet gelding was upset but not nasty. That had to hurt! She tightened the girth way more then I ever had. Fixed that and she got on. Gelding acted really confused. Went to go forward and she would yank him back. This guy always walked off quietly. Looked and she was drilling her legs into his sides. Finally she said "her trainer told her she had to ride with contact with her legs at all times". I asked her to get off and then said I did not have a single horse on the place she was capable of riding much less selling to her. All my horses were broke and responsive. All this went on in an open field. By the end of it I did not want to see her get the nice gelding and ruin him. He did end up going to a nice trail him.

                            Comment


                            • #15
                              Originally posted by myvalentine View Post
                              - It's very important to me that whatever horse I buy rides solo on the trail, but most sellers I contact won't let me try the horse on the trail without accompanying me. I get that they want to keep an eye on their property, but how am I supposed to determine the horse goes solo when he's got a buddy along?

                              I buy and sell some trail horses. A good test is to meet at a trail riding facility, park, etc and watch the horse being ridden by the seller. You bring your own horse along to ride. If it all seems ok, tie or load your horse back up, whatever- and ride the horse a bit by himself. Or swap horses with the seller assuming your horse is well trained- and ride off ahead by yourself. If a seller won't let you ride off up a hill or around the bend alone, or cross a creek first, that's not the horse you need. more than once I've meet potential buyers and shown them the horse, then handed them the horse and watched to ensure they could actually ride. You are an entirely unknown variable, as a 'Try-er' - as a seller I have no clue what you do or don't know or will or won't try to 'test' my horse. I will not let you entirely go off by yourself unless I know you in some way shape or form.

                              - On the subject of trail riding, a few sellers I've seen have the horse advertised as a trail horse, but have no access to trails for test riding. Is it unreasonable for me to ask them to trailer the horse somewhere I can ride it?

                              you should go try the horse at their place and see if you even want to fool with trail riding to try the horse. If you like what you see, then yes- and you should consider offering to pay for fuel to do such a thing.

                              - A few sellers don't want me to use my own tack on test rides. I feel like it's hard for me to get a good feel for the horse in foreign tack. So if my saddle fits ok, I'd like to test ride in my saddle. Unreasonable?

                              If I think your stuff will fit my horse, it's fine. But I've seen some sorry tack brought along to put on my horse. No. and I'm sorry, but unless the seat size is way too small, just how hard is it to ride in strange gear? Unless it's a 14" barrel saddle and you're a size 14- it's just a saddle. That's a little bit princess on your part

                              - If the listed price doesn't say 'firm', is it unreasonable to assume it's negotiable? Is this something you should ask up front, or wait until you see the horse? I feel a bit like if I ask upfront, seller will think I'm just a tire kicker. And what is a reasonable offer? 10% less? 15%? 20%?
                              do this before you have met me and ridden the horse and made a bit of a relationship, and you've just peed in my breakfast. No way I'm coming off the price b/c you ASSume I'll take less or I've jacked up the price- look, that's just rude, sorry.


                              - I want to see the horse be caught and led in. A few times seller has 'forgot' that, and the horse is waiting in the barn when I arrived, so I ask them to turn the horse back out again. Is that unreasonable? One lady was real annoyed because she knew he was going to drop and roll (seems he had been given a bath earlier).

                              I don't mind this, but you better be ON TIME or a little early. I am busy with a real job and if you don't meet our appointment time you may get told to wait a bit while I finish doing something else. don't ask people to put the horse back out- good heavens- if you like the horse, ride the horse, try him- then pop him back out in the turnout and after chatting a bit, ask if you can walk out there and pet on him. Look, I bought a horse that was easy to catch but he fell in love with another gelding and became a snot to catch. You are buying what he is now- not what he might be somewhere else. and if they hauled the horse for you to try him- how's that going to work, exactly


                              - Somebody told me I should always arrive at least 15 minutes before the designated time so as to catch the seller doing anything dishonest, like lunging the horse to tire him, or drugging him. Should I be doing this?
                              buy from reputable sources- tell your friends in the horse business you are in the market- horses will appear heck I delivered one to a friend who was then hauling him out of state to his buyer... and just happened to bring one of hers home to try. tried him for 2 weeks, vetted him, bought him. Rode him like 10 minutes in her round pen before bringing him home. You cannot possibly outsmart the true traders- so don't associate with them. The good sellers are honest- I've sold a horse with the warning you cannot haul him anywhere BUT the last stall in a slant, he'll tear your trailer up. Two years later the buyer was laughing with me ,telling me I was right, she'd tried the middle stall and her Hawk paid dearly. He was only 15.3 but he by golly wanted the big stall, TYVM.

                              take your time, and buy from reputable sources

                              I'm sure I'll think of more, but those are the biggies.

                              Thanks.
                              Good luck!

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                              • #16
                                I am not a frequent buyer/seller, but I have bought and sold a few. Here are my thoughts on your question from the occasional seller's perspective:

                                Originally posted by myvalentine View Post
                                - It's very important to me that whatever horse I buy rides solo on the trail, but most sellers I contact won't let me try the horse on the trail without accompanying me. I get that they want to keep an eye on their property, but how am I supposed to determine the horse goes solo when he's got a buddy along?

                                - On the subject of trail riding, a few sellers I've seen have the horse advertised as a trail horse, but have no access to trails for test riding. Is it unreasonable for me to ask them to trailer the horse somewhere I can ride it?
                                I'll answer the second question first. No, if trail-riding is a key skill for you, you certainly can ask to have the horse hauled somewhere with trail access. If this is the horse's primary purpose, requesting this for first look is even reasonable. However, if you are buying a horse with X training (e.g., h/j, dressage, etc.) who also hacks, as a seller, I would want to show off the primary training first and would likely refuse if you wanted to haul to trails on first visit. If you liked the horse in the ring, however, and wanted a second trial on the trails to confirm that training, I'd be perfectly amenable, though you'd have to conform to my schedule for being able to get to an appropriate trail head.

                                However, I would be very, VERY reluctant to send an unknown rider off on MY horse unsupervised. Until the deal is done, it is MY horse and you would NOT be taking him/her off without me along. Sorry; the risk to me is huge and I won't take it. This is where you will want to rely on good conversations with the seller, as well as being honest with yourself about your skills and ability to deal with a horse who might not immediately hack well solo for you.

                                Also, I'll note that a horse that hacks solo with a known rider might not immediately hack well solo with a new rider. I recently sold a mustang gelding who was a rockstar with me or another rider he had gotten to know over a few months. Put a new person up, though, he was unconfident and more prone to spook. Give him time to get to know you, though, and he's right back to being a rockstar.

                                Originally posted by myvalentine View Post
                                - A few sellers don't want me to use my own tack on test rides. I feel like it's hard for me to get a good feel for the horse in foreign tack. So if my saddle fits ok, I'd like to test ride in my saddle. Unreasonable?
                                No, no, no, and no! I completely get being more comfortable in your own tack. I have a custom saddle and a couple of others that fit near-custom and far prefer to ride in these.

                                But this is the issue: My horses have their own properly fitted tack, usually at least custom-stuffed, even if they are sale horses. Until s/he is YOUR horse, s/he will wear the tack that I know is appropriate and comfortable. If strange tack is a big issue for you, I'd recommend begging rides on friends' horses in their own tack so that you become more adept at feeling the horse and not the "strange" saddle.

                                If you were committed to buy the horse (e.g., ready to put down deposit and schedule PPE) and wanted to try your saddle on for a short period at that point to see if it would fit, I would be more amenable.

                                Originally posted by myvalentine View Post
                                - If the listed price doesn't say 'firm', is it unreasonable to assume it's negotiable? Is this something you should ask up front, or wait until you see the horse? I feel a bit like if I ask upfront, seller will think I'm just a tire kicker. And what is a reasonable offer? 10% less? 15%? 20%?
                                Buying horses is generally like buying cars. There's rarely any harm in making an offer. Make the offer that you can afford and that seems appropriate. The worst that can happen is the seller says no. Even in "firm" prices, I've had luck getting that reduced with arguments the seller deemed legitimate (including once simply that I had X to spend and no more ... THAT horse is still in my back yard today. )

                                Originally posted by myvalentine View Post
                                - I want to see the horse be caught and led in. A few times seller has 'forgot' that, and the horse is waiting in the barn when I arrived, so I ask them to turn the horse back out again. Is that unreasonable? One lady was real annoyed because she knew he was going to drop and roll (seems he had been given a bath earlier).
                                As another poster suggested, this seems a bit odd. And no, the first time you come look at a horse of mine for sale, s/he will be presented in the best possible light. That means by the time of our appointment, the horse will be standing in a stall or on cross-ties, clean and ready to be tacked. And no, I will NOT turn the horse back out that I just spent time and effort preparing for YOU so you can see him caught. Sorry.

                                If this is such a critical issue, and if after the first look, you want to move forward, I would be happy to have you out for a second test ride and allow you to catch, groom and tack the horse (using his own tack, of course) yourself. Likewise, if you wanted to catch the horse AFTER your initial test ride, I would be fine with that.

                                Originally posted by myvalentine View Post
                                - Somebody told me I should always arrive at least 15 minutes before the designated time so as to catch the seller doing anything dishonest, like lunging the horse to tire him, or drugging him. Should I be doing this?
                                I've had this done, sometimes more than 15 minutes, and it's irritating. Like most of us, I have work, farm chores, family obligations, etc. and so am generally on a fairly tight schedule. Having a stranger showing up before the appointment time and lurking about is distracting and reduces my efficiency. Now, if you happen to get there 5-10 minutes early because you overestimated travel time, no worries. That happens.

                                But if you deliberately show up very early to "catch" me doing something? If I'm feeling generous, you'll be instructed to sit quietly in your car until our appointment time. If I'm not, or if I get a bad feeling about you because of this (and being adversarial to me as a seller counts as a "bad feeling"), I will cancel the appointment and kick you off my property.

                                I'm not saying you shouldn't do your due diligence. But actual conversations with the seller to get a feel for both her/him and the horse go a long way toward that. So does planning two visits/test rides for horses that interest you. As I said earlier, if you want a second ride, you are welcome to catch, groom, tack and ride all on your own. And a thorough PPE that includes drawing blood to hold for 30 days in case you suspect drugging for calming or lameness.

                                On trials, no, I won't do that. Again, the risk to me is HUGE. I could get back a horse unmarketable because he is lame or had his brain fried by an environment or riding/training that was not suitable for him. What I WILL do and HAVE done is offer a 30-day lease at my place, so that I retain control over the horse's management and use.

                                Best of luck to you in your horse search!
                                Equinox Equine Massage

                                In the depth of winter, I finally learned that there was in me invincible summer.
                                -Albert Camus

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                                • #17
                                  Originally posted by myvalentine View Post
                                  Thanks. I don't look at horses out of my price range. My question was more wondering if I would be an idiot to pay full price without asking first because this is what the seller expects. I mean, if seller has horse advertised at $5000 but will actually take $4500, obviously I want to pay $4500 even though I can afford $5000. Because who doesn't like to save money? And sometimes I see horses that seem to be priced a bit high (meaning still in my price range, but I don't think horse is worth that much), and I wonder if the seller priced them that way because they knew buyers are going to want to negotiate. But I'm never sure when the right time to ask about this is. Before I go see the horse or after?
                                  I think, the best time to ask is, when you tried the horse and are truly considering purchasing it.

                                  At that point, you will have established a rapport with the seller.

                                  Some sellers will go down with the price slightly just because they really want you to have the horse (or they offer to deliver it, or pay for vet exam). They feel, you are a good match and it is worth to them to come down for that.

                                  Of course, I am not talking about $1,000 horses here. I agree with another poster, if such horse is appropriate, then bargaining on this price would be an insult. At least, where we live.

                                  The worst thing that can happen is that they say no and might even explain why.

                                  We asked, when we were buying our riding horse and were said no and it made sense. The horse was under saddle, but the price was not adjusted yet to reflect that (we knew, how breeder priced the horses in general and was selling mostly non-started animals). The breeder delivered him though and we appreciated the gesture, as we did not have a trailer then.

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                                  • #18
                                    Originally posted by myvalentine View Post
                                    My horse is nearing retirement age, and I'm starting to shop around for a new mount. Been a long time since I've been horse shopping, and I'm running into a couple things and want to know if I'm being unreasonable.

                                    - It's very important to me that whatever horse I buy rides solo on the trail, but most sellers I contact won't let me try the horse on the trail without accompanying me. I get that they want to keep an eye on their property, but how am I supposed to determine the horse goes solo when he's got a buddy along?

                                    ASK THAT THE OWNER FOLLOW YOU ON FOOT A DISTANCE BEHIND

                                    - On the subject of trail riding, a few sellers I've seen have the horse advertised as a trail horse, but have no access to trails for test riding. Is it unreasonable for me to ask them to trailer the horse somewhere I can ride it?

                                    NO, NOT AT ALL

                                    - A few sellers don't want me to use my own tack on test rides. I feel like it's hard for me to get a good feel for the horse in foreign tack. So if my saddle fits ok, I'd like to test ride in my saddle. Unreasonable?

                                    I ALLOW BUYERS TO USE THEIR OWN TACK UNLESS I KNOW THE HORSE NEEDS A SPECIFIC TYPE OF TREE, SUCH AS WIDE

                                    - If the listed price doesn't say 'firm', is it unreasonable to assume it's negotiable? Is this something you should ask up front, or wait until you see the horse? I feel a bit like if I ask upfront, seller will think I'm just a tire kicker. And what is a reasonable offer? 10% less? 15%? 20%?

                                    YOU CAN MAKE AN OFFER, BUT EDUCATE YOURSELF BEFORE YOU MAKE IT. CHECK OUT SIMILAR HORSES THAT SOLD ON INTERNET WEBSITES IN THAT AREA ALTHOUGH YOU HAVE NO WAY OF KNOWING THE EXACT SALE PRICE. OFFER TOO LOW AND YOU WILL PISS OFF THE SELLER.

                                    - I want to see the horse be caught and led in. A few times seller has 'forgot' that, and the horse is waiting in the barn when I arrived, so I ask them to turn the horse back out again. Is that unreasonable? One lady was real annoyed because she knew he was going to drop and roll (seems he had been given a bath earlier).

                                    NO, ALTHOUGH SOMETIMES HORSES CAN BE HARD TO CATCH IMMEDIATELY AFTER THEY HAVE BEEN TURNED OUT, EVEN IF THEY ARE NORMALLY EASY TO CATCH. BESIDES, THIS IS AN EASY THING TO FIX IF THE HORSE IS HARD TO CATCH, SO WHY DO YOU CARE?

                                    - Somebody told me I should always arrive at least 15 minutes before the designated time so as to catch the seller doing anything dishonest, like lunging the horse to tire him, or drugging him. Should I be doing this?

                                    IF YOU WANT, ALTHOUGH IF YOU HAVE AN APPOINTMENT, EXPECT TO HAVE TO WAIT AROUND IF THE SELLER IS DOING SOMETHING ELSE, LIKE TEACHING A LESSON.

                                    I'm sure I'll think of more, but those are the biggies.

                                    Thanks.
                                    SEE ABOVE
                                    Man plans. God laughs.

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                                    • #19
                                      Originally posted by myvalentine View Post
                                      My horse is nearing retirement age, and I'm starting to shop around for a new mount. Been a long time since I've been horse shopping, and I'm running into a couple things and want to know if I'm being unreasonable.

                                      - It's very important to me that whatever horse I buy rides solo on the trail, but most sellers I contact won't let me try the horse on the trail without accompanying me. I get that they want to keep an eye on their property, but how am I supposed to determine the horse goes solo when he's got a buddy along?

                                      Away from my seller's eye, no. Find a place where a buyer can ride away from a barn and the seller can watch (using field glasses, if necessary). If this requires the seller to haul the horse someplace the buyer should be ready to pay for the cost (including the seller's time).

                                      - On the subject of trail riding, a few sellers I've seen have the horse advertised as a trail horse, but have no access to trails for test riding. Is it unreasonable for me to ask them to trailer the horse somewhere I can ride it?

                                      See above.

                                      - A few sellers don't want me to use my own tack on test rides. I feel like it's hard for me to get a good feel for the horse in foreign tack. So if my saddle fits ok, I'd like to test ride in my saddle. Unreasonable?

                                      It depends. As a seller I'll make the call whether or not tack fits. There is also the problem of the horse's experience (English vs. Western vs. Aussie vs. Whatever). As to the bridle, bit, and reins, we use mine. End of discussion.

                                      - If the listed price doesn't say 'firm', is it unreasonable to assume it's negotiable? Is this something you should ask up front, or wait until you see the horse? I feel a bit like if I ask upfront, seller will think I'm just a tire kicker. And what is a reasonable offer? 10% less? 15%? 20%?

                                      Everything is worth what a willing, but compelled seller, will take from a willing but compelled buyer. IMO there is "formula" to be applied, here. If, after you've done your due diligence you find a horse fairly priced the you might want to see if a small discount might be had. Remember that the seller may also have done their due diligence. If you find the horse seriously overpriced then make an offer that, in your opinion, reflects the fair market value of the horse. If the horse is under priced remember an old saying from Wall Street: Bears make money, bulls make money, pigs get slaughtered.

                                      - I want to see the horse be caught and led in. A few times seller has 'forgot' that, and the horse is waiting in the barn when I arrived, so I ask them to turn the horse back out again. Is that unreasonable? One lady was real annoyed because she knew he was going to drop and roll (seems he had been given a bath earlier).

                                      No, very reasonable. Seeing a horse caught in the field is a very good thing. Volunteer to brush out the horse if that's a problem.

                                      - Somebody told me I should always arrive at least 15 minutes before the designated time so as to catch the seller doing anything dishonest, like lunging the horse to tire him, or drugging him. Should I be doing this?

                                      Yup.

                                      I'm sure I'll think of more, but those are the biggies.

                                      Thanks.
                                      G.
                                      Mangalarga Marchador: Uma Raça, Uma Paixão

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                                      • #20
                                        As a seller, I always start with catching the horse in the field for a prospective buyer. The reason is simple -- I owned a horse as a kid who was a royal PIA to catch. It is a big deal to me that my horses are easy to catch and I want to demonstrate it.

                                        If you come early, be prepared to wait. I might have a lesson or another buyer. I don't do anything in advance to my horses so it is going to be boring with me.

                                        I'm fine with using your saddle, but I sell a very wide backed low withered breed and the likelihood of your saddle fitting is going to be very small unless you have owned something similar before. And as G. said, my bridle only.

                                        I don't sell my horses as trail horses, so I am unlikely to be attracting trail riders. I also don't do much trail riding alone because I think it is risky. I much prefer going out with someone else. I do understand that there are the solo trail riders, so with a release and evidence of medical insurance, I'd let you hack around my 140 acres after I saw you ride in the ring and only if I felt you were skilled enough to ride alone. I have a breed that is a magnet to the timid rider, most of whom have no confidence and would have serious troubles trail riding alone on a strange horse. So sure, show me that you can ride with confidence at all 3 gaits and jump 18 inches and I'll let you go out. Get timid and tentative, then I will say no.

                                        On the price; it depends. I sell a number of consignments and I have to get the owner to agree to the price. If you come in too low, the cost of my commission and the horse's expenses will may the owner say no. If it is a horse from my own breeding program, then I can be more flexible. I also have no problem saying no. I sell a breed that is not that common and has a national market, so there is only so much leeway on price.

                                        But as a seller I would encourage you to communicate openly with the seller. I really do care if the horse is a good match for the buyer. I really don't want to waste my time and the buyer's time if it isn't or if the buyer has conditions that I can't meet.
                                        Where Fjeral Norwegian Fjords Rule
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