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So bummed, feel like I bought the wrong horse - Update : post #101

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  • #61
    This may seem like a silly question, but, have you tried singing? It's an old trick for young riders to make sure that they keep breathing, and it can help with timing, etc. Mostly what it does is distract you from over-thinking, and it becomes kind of a safe noise for the horse.

    I have a terrible voice, but the times when my horse has gotten worried on the trail, I start singing Molly Malone or Shenandoah or Red River Valley--not too loud because I don't want a massive stampede of wildlife running in the other direction!

    It's not a magical fix, but it's surprising how calming it can be for both rider and horse.
    "The formula 'Two and two make five' is not without its attractions." --Dostoevsky

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    • #62
      Trail ride first. When he gets antsy and wants to head back, head back straight on into the arena, and WORK. When you are ready to give him a break, take him back out on the trail. When he gets antsy, do as above. He will eventually figure out that the trail ride is fun; going back to the barn = work.
      In the meantime, I agree with suggestions to trail ride with another horse, and/or singing.
      Jeanie
      RIP Sasha, best dog ever, pictured shortly before she died, Death either by euthanasia or natural causes is only the end of the animal inhabiting its body; I believe the spirit lives on.

      Comment


      • #63
        Life is way too short to stick with a horse that's not fun for what you want. Unless you find the challenge of retraining fun, sell him as a dressage horse and move on. I love dressage and trail riding and I would not put up with a horse that gets spooky and hollow in the trails. I do trails to relax and unwind and enjoy nature and my horse, not to train. I either want a horse who's nature doesn't require training to be trail happy (I've owned several of those) or one who has been trained by someone else.

        Yes, you probably made a mistake getting a horse without confirmed trail experience and who demonstrated these behaviors during the trial ride, but that's in the past. Forget what happened in the past and just think about where you want to be in a few months or a year from now.

        Comment


        • #64
          OP, I can totally relate. My gelding has been a real challenge for me, in general, but especially on trails or hacking around the farm. There have definitely been times I have seriously considered selling him because I doubted he'd ever be suitable for my goals of trail riding and eventing. We had many, MANY rides where I felt like I just could NOT get through to him. I often thought he might just be way happier with an owner who really just wanted to do dressage in the arena, period.

          Each time it came up I ultimately decided to keep him. There is so much truth in the idea that life is too short to ride a horse you're not having fun on... but each time I decided the challenge was what I wanted. It's just the kind of satisfaction I like getting from my horsemanship, figuring out what will help each horse with their problems. But if that wasn't a priority for me, I would have worked on finding an "easier" home for his personality.

          Things are really coming together with him now. We still have challenges here and there, but we crossed the line a bit ago into "we're in this together" and that makes all the difference. I tried everything I knew with this horse without much success, had to really start learning and thinking of new things, had to experiment with dozens of different approaches... it has been a fascinating and sometimes exhausting puzzle, and looking back on it I am super glad I decided to keep working with him. For one, I have a super fun horse I LOVE to ride. For another, I have grown SO much as a horsewoman I could never thank him enough. But if that's not the kind of experience you're looking for, there's truly nothing wrong with knowing that and acting accordingly!

          I applaud you for already putting a ton of effort into trying to figure this out. Believe me I know what it feels like to feel at the end of your rope with your horse.

          I will say taking this horse to a Buck Brannaman clinic really helped us. I already knew a good bit about "natural horsemanship" but some of the fine distinctions Buck made for me really made a big difference. For us, getting Buck's exercises really working for us on the ground and under saddle gave me a way to get through to him when he was really losing it. Sometimes I had to keep it up for a LONG time if he was really bothered, and it was exhausting and discouraging and very, very challenging. Sometimes I've had to quit on a bad note because it got dark before he came around... I'm just wondering how willing are you to stick something out for HOURS if thats what your horse needs to make a change?

          I always find that one of the challenges of horsemanship is knowing when you have a good technique and just need to keep it up longer and when you need a new technique. I have definitely found that sometimes I just needed to keep doing what I was doing for way, WAY longer than I wanted to/thought I should need to/than it was convenient to in order to get to the other side.

          Comment


          • #65
            Originally posted by Posting Trot View Post
            This may seem like a silly question, but, have you tried singing? It's an old trick for young riders to make sure that they keep breathing, and it can help with timing, etc. Mostly what it does is distract you from over-thinking, and it becomes kind of a safe noise for the horse.

            I have a terrible voice, but the times when my horse has gotten worried on the trail, I start singing Molly Malone or Shenandoah or Red River Valley--not too loud because I don't want a massive stampede of wildlife running in the other direction!

            It's not a magical fix, but it's surprising how calming it can be for both rider and horse.

            this is really good advice. Twinkle twinkle little star, it s the right cadence for the trot. IT really helps your breathing and helps with the rhythm. It's amazing how many different perversions of the same song you can make. (Twinkle, twinkle broken bat, that my horse is where it's at. etc)

            singing other songs, also does help but try to come up with things that are in the rhythm of the gait you want.

            Comment


            • #66
              I agree with the poster who says the horse sounds barn sour. this can be a pain in the neck to correct. When I have had to deal with it I will do various things: one, I work the horse on the trail, I don't just walk. I do this regardless, because I want to get to where I am going, and to work some of the energy out of the horse. For a barn sour horse, I will always do a trail in a loop. I will give the horse treats/grain at the furthest place away from the barn. I will ride past the barn and continue on another trail ride if the horse is too anxious to go home. None of these are quick cures. But lots of work on the trail, and especially if I go out for some hours, will help get them over it. But I am talking putting serious miles of distance on the trail on the horse. May not be practical for you.

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              • Original Poster

                #67
                I will definitely try putting him to harder work, both in the arena before heading out on the trail, and while on the trail. Like I said, I have tried working him on the trail before, but the intent was more to keep him engaged mentally, not tire him out physically. My trainer had suggested I pick some exercises he does well in the arena (lateral movements, serpentines, etc) and do those out on the trail to give him something familiar to do. I have tried this as a preventative (eg, start doing exercises before the behavior kicks in) and also as a reactive technique (waiting until behavior starts and then putting him to work to try to re-engage him).

                I have never tried singing, but I will add that to the list of things to try!

                My trainer actually thinks this horse is a lovely match for me.... as a dressage mount. She does not share my passion for trail riding. She thinks the solution is to throw in the towel and give up the trail riding and focus purely on dressage. She does not think I should sell him. I know it's easy to say 'time to find a new trainer', but she is a very good dressage instructor and I have a lot of friends at the barn. They are like my family. It's not such a black and white decision to pack up and move to another barn.

                I have no problem with putting in training hours on this horse, I fully expected to be doing trail training when I bought him. The frustration is feeling like there is no light at the end of the tunnel. I just feel like nothing I have tried has made any difference whatsoever in diminishing this behavior.

                But this thread has given me a few new ideas, so at least at this moment, I'm feeling a bit less disheartened and feel like I have some new tools to try.

                Comment


                • #68
                  Another idea to try....instead of limiting trail to only twice a week, try taking him (at least for awhile) on a trail ride ride every day...a short one either before or after the dressage lesson. That way he starts to think of it as normal, a routine, and not some odd thing that pops up twice a week.
                  Like ourselves, horses get good at what they do every day , simply because they get used to it. Plus they like routine. And it will help make him improve faster rather than it taking so long. Update us!
                  Last edited by Countrywood; Feb. 23, 2015, 07:58 AM.

                  Comment


                  • #69
                    Agree that he is barn sour. When you come back from a trail ride work him for 5-10 minutes then tie him in his stall or to a trailer or a tree and let him stand there for an hour. Once he learns that getting back to the barn does not mean an end to work and/or doing something extremely boring, he should likely improve.

                    Comment


                    • #70
                      Originally posted by OverandOnward View Post

                      Don't trail-ride this horse on a loose rein. At all, not even for just a few minutees. Maintain dressage contact. This is what he knows, it's a security for him. Again, see it from his point of view, not yours.

                      My current horse is great on trails ... so long as I never, ever give him loose rein. I mean, ever. Easing the reins while thinking I am giving him his head, giving him a break while we walk on, leads to a meltdown. The giraffe thing, the dropped plank back, everything you describe of your horse. So discouraging!
                      THIS.

                      I trail rode an old ASB show mare when I was in high school/college. She was still ridden in a full show bridle; it was all she'd been ridden for the last 15+ years and was comfortable in it. She would have been lost in a snaffle & completely confused if asked to go with no contact & her head down. It wouldn't have been fair to even ask. When everyone else cantered their QHs, we trotted. She easily kept up, or passed them, at a trot; not so much with her rocking horse canter.

                      I wouldn't discount chemistry either. You're not showing, USEF rules don't apply. You're not doing anything bad, wrong or cheating. When my big mare went back into work after a layoff, she was only worked with a bit of caffeine. She had been inclined to be lazy. This way she FELT like working. Gradually she came off it, but by then had a better work ethic.
                      Visit my Spoonflower shop

                      Comment


                      • #71
                        Originally posted by Posting Trot View Post
                        This may seem like a silly question, but, have you tried singing? It's an old trick for young riders to make sure that they keep breathing, and it can help with timing, etc. Mostly what it does is distract you from over-thinking, and it becomes kind of a safe noise for the horse.

                        I have a terrible voice, but the times when my horse has gotten worried on the trail, I start singing Molly Malone or Shenandoah or Red River Valley--not too loud because I don't want a massive stampede of wildlife running in the other direction!

                        It's not a magical fix, but it's surprising how calming it can be for both rider and horse.
                        I do this and I have a horrible voice. I also have conversations if someone is with me whether it is just to my horse or to the other person. It saves their ears. =)
                        --Luck is what happens when preparedness meets opportunity--

                        Comment


                        • #72
                          I will ride mine on a long rein on portions of trail , never a loose rein. A long rein they can stretch their neck but there is still some contact. Every horse is different and some can't even do that with, the OP's horse sounds pretty calm on trail actually, just very barn sour and not used to it, and barn sour is no small thing of course. Because this is so much about barn sour, I'd take him on trail every day, or nearly evrey day, even for a short time for a couple of months to really ingrain in him that yes, trail riding is now a daily part of life, repetition is everything, if we did only occasional dressage it would unfair to ask a horse to get good at it or used to it.

                          Some horses are born with that placid disposition or don't mind being alone and make those sought after trail mounts with no training to get that way...but we cant' all own them ..mine is horrible on trail btw by himself, good following others, it's gotten better over time but there are places I simply won't go alone with him.

                          Comment


                          • #73
                            Originally posted by MissApple View Post
                            I will definitely try putting him to harder work, both in the arena before heading out on the trail, and while on the trail. Like I said, I have tried working him on the trail before, but the intent was more to keep him engaged mentally, not tire him out physically. My trainer had suggested I pick some exercises he does well in the arena (lateral movements, serpentines, etc) and do those out on the trail to give him something familiar to do. I have tried this as a preventative (eg, start doing exercises before the behavior kicks in) and also as a reactive technique (waiting until behavior starts and then putting him to work to try to re-engage him).

                            I have never tried singing, but I will add that to the list of things to try!

                            My trainer actually thinks this horse is a lovely match for me.... as a dressage mount. She does not share my passion for trail riding. She thinks the solution is to throw in the towel and give up the trail riding and focus purely on dressage. She does not think I should sell him. I know it's easy to say 'time to find a new trainer', but she is a very good dressage instructor and I have a lot of friends at the barn. They are like my family. It's not such a black and white decision to pack up and move to another barn.

                            I have no problem with putting in training hours on this horse, I fully expected to be doing trail training when I bought him. The frustration is feeling like there is no light at the end of the tunnel. I just feel like nothing I have tried has made any difference whatsoever in diminishing this behavior.

                            But this thread has given me a few new ideas, so at least at this moment, I'm feeling a bit less disheartened and feel like I have some new tools to try.
                            You could go back to start him like a colt with his first rides out, go with a very quiet horse, go only so far, have a trailer there and haul home.

                            Do that a few times, then proceed from how he is reacting to that, maybe try going alone, or try going past the trailer and "find" the trailer on your way back.

                            Some days don't go far, five minutes out and back, others go longer, just keep trying to find what works to have a good, sensible horse thru the ride and where not to go yet if it is overfacing your horse.

                            We also sing to our horses, the old "Que sera, sera ...", singing it slowly, is one tune antsy horses seem to respond to with slower footfalls.

                            I have used the shepherd's whistle we train border collies with to carry a tune also and some horses seem to respond to that also.

                            You can tell after a while if a horse is going to be a trail riding horse after all, or it is just not what that horse is going to enjoy or let you enjoy it, not without stress.
                            That difference is important for us.
                            We don't want to train a horse as a ranch horse that is just not happy outside, on it's own, without fretting.
                            Few as those horses are, they need a different job in life.
                            Some horses learn to like trail riding, some just never seem to quit being a worrywart outside.

                            Comment


                            • #74
                              I have never tried singing on a trail ride, but I sing a mean "Row, row, row your boat" while on course at horse shows. It's really a magic fix for me!

                              OP, I know how you feel. I am lucky to have two horses. One is a perfect arena/show horse who is just ok on trails and the other is an amazing trail horses that's pretty darn good in the arena and at shows as well, just very nonathletic. DH and my trainer have both trail rode my show horse and they do not understand why I don't like trail riding her... She's very okay for them on the trails. My deal with her is that she requires a lot of "active riding" on the trail. I know you said even that doesn't work for your guy and I'm lucky that it works for my mare, but I still want to have a nice, relaxing, on the buckle trail ride. Luckily my gelding embodies that so I really only trail ride him and let other experience riders take my mare... It's just not enjoyable for me.

                              To me it sounds like you have the wrong horse. Some horses, even at their best, will require active riding while on the trail and that's really not what it sounds like you (and I) want to do on our trail rides. Just wanted to throw out some emotional support and tell you that I know how you feel.

                              Comment


                              • #75
                                You know, my good Hunter mare was pretty good on the trail, even by herself BUT she wanted to get going. If you just walked? She was awful sometimes, jiggly jig, threaten to get light in front( polite way if saying felt like she was going to rear), helicopter tail, head flip, she even squealed if she got really mad at you.

                                But if you even let her into a controlled trot? She was really good, even in the woods on a trail instead of a road or drive. I was lucky to have open fields after they cut and baled the hay a couple of times a year so I could just get off her back and go over a hundred acres. And we went. After trotting 20 minutes or so when she had to watch where she put her feet or a couple of laps or that gallop, she went like a WP horse.
                                When opportunity knocks it's wearing overalls and looks like work.

                                The horse world. Two people. Three opinions.

                                Comment


                                • #76
                                  Aw, I have felt that way too! Thank heavens it passed. But don't give up; (as others were saying too,unless you feel you should give the horse up...) I know when that has happened to me, one thing was always the same: Give that horse a job to do. It doesn't matter what, just something. That has helped me, and I hope it can help you!

                                  Comment


                                  • #77
                                    Originally posted by findeight View Post
                                    You know, my good Hunter mare was pretty good on the trail, even by herself BUT she wanted to get going. If you just walked? She was awful sometimes, jiggly jig, threaten to get light in front( polite way if saying felt like she was going to rear), helicopter tail, head flip, she even squealed if she got really mad at you.

                                    But if you even let her into a controlled trot? She was really good, even in the woods on a trail instead of a road or drive. I was lucky to have open fields after they cut and baled the hay a couple of times a year so I could just get off her back and go over a hundred acres. And we went. After trotting 20 minutes or so when she had to watch where she put her feet or a couple of laps or that gallop, she went like a WP horse.
                                    Yeah, I agree. Last time I went out with a couple friends, their horses were fresh and wanted to get moving. Instead of trying to keep it together, we had a nice long trot and it didn't take long for everyone to settle down.

                                    It might be a nice treat, OP, for your horse to really move out on the trails. Instead of focusing on walking only, let him(her?) move forward, trot, canter, etc. I always get a really nice forward feeling on the trails and the horse appreciates not always having to turn like in the arena.

                                    DON'T, however, trot or canter back to the barn! Work on forward going out, work on lateral work or transitions coming back. Maybe your horse is just begging to stretch its legs!
                                    "A horse's face always conveys clearly whether it is loved by its owner or simply used." - Anja Beran

                                    Comment


                                    • #78
                                      It sounds like you are walking the whole way. If I am correct in that, I would change things up. I would let the horse warm up then I would do a lot of trotting and some canter and really work the horse to the point of being tired.

                                      Then on the way home I would walk the entire way. I would not wait until the horse acted up to try to work the energy out of him.

                                      you want him to associate going home with a relaxed attitude and its easier for him to be relaxed if he is tired.

                                      Plus I am a little confused as to how the horse can think its going home if you are not pointed in that direction.

                                      However, it may well be that this horse is never going to make a good trail horse and you shouldn't be too hard on your trainer for not being able to foresee that.

                                      Comment


                                      • #79
                                        You need a new trainer. One who actually cares about what you want. She convinced you to get this horse because dressage is her thing. A reputable trainer will suggest a horse that meets YOUR needs.

                                        I would switch trainers and let the new trainer sell this horse for you. I would hate to see your current trainer make another commission.

                                        There are many good dressage horses that are great out on the trails. You deserve that. Life is too short to be in an equine mismatch. Too short to be in a trainer mismatch too.
                                        Show me your horse and I will tell you who you are.

                                        Comment


                                        • #80
                                          OP, this totally sounds fixable. Several have mentioned good ideas.

                                          Have places on the trail to move out. Preferably, a long stretch to trot right out. Also, keep some contact. Both great ideas.

                                          Another one someone mentioned that has worked very well for me is that if a horse does not come home nicely, they stay tied or in the cross ties for a long time after returning. If the weather is mild, I keep them saddled. If it's hot, I remove tack, hose, water, then tie them. Of course, I find busy work to do to keep an eye on them. An hour works wonders, if you can hang out that long. I have one mare I have to do this with a handful of times coming back into work each spring. Then she remembers rushing home does not yield lunch, a relaxing roll and hanging with friends.

                                          I have to say, the vast majority of horses want to come home faster and busier then how they left. Yours sounds like a very mild case.

                                          OP, I'm editing to mention that if at any time you want to just throw in the towel, it is OKAY to do so! You will not be letting anyone down. This is meant to be fun!
                                          Last edited by Showbizz; Feb. 23, 2015, 05:15 PM. Reason: Adding on...

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