So bummed, feel like I bought the wrong horse - Update : post #101

[ACMEeventing]

He's BARN SOUR. Don't really read this as "over reactive on the trail', if he was, he'd be drooping a shoulder and spinning out, bucking you off or turning every spook into a bolt. He's not, he's just learned/been taught when he feels tired or insecure, he can take you home and you will reward him by getting off. Probably learned that speeding up and pulling intimidates you so shortens the time it takes until he can get rid of you and eat.

Have to say pretty disappointed in what you say your trainer is telling you, is she heavy on theory and the esoteric aspects of Dressage at the expense of very basic horsemanship? Most Pony Club and 4H teens can recognize and fix this.

You can fix this too but I think it's OK to skip the trail until you get his mindset changed. Every time we touch the horse, we train or "untrain" which really just means they learn what we actually teach them not what we meant them to learn, and they love routine. So every time he has taken you back to the barn, you have rewarded him by putting him up. It's become a routine for him, that is what has to be changed.

Just guessing you gave a pretty set routine when you school? Certain exercises in basically the same order for a certain length of time? Then you stop and reward by getting off? Or you do a shorter version in the ring then go on the trail and he thinks he is done and knows he can take back?

Your trainer should be able to help you vary the order you do things and understand why you need to. You need to stop riding the horse from arena to barn, get off in the arena, not by the gate, lead the horse back to the barn. Don't finish up with the same exercise then leave the ring and don't always work the same length if time-just training him to be done at that time. If he acts like he wants to quit? Keep working on something, anything, even just trotting around.

When you do go on the trail, after working on these things for a few weeks? He can take you back to the barn but you are NOT going to get off, you are going to proceed to the arena and work him for 5-10 minutes. Nothing fancy, just keep him going. Then hop off in the arena and lead him to the barn.

Break that concept of back to barn = reward. Have to say many if them are not fond of being out there alone, so ride with a buddy, esoecially until you get this sorted out.

Learning to see the world as the horse does and understanding how they learn (routine and consistent repetition) is the backbone of what as become NH, it wouldn't hurt for you to read up and watch some of the better practitioners like Buck Brannaman, lots on YouTube

Im sure some other posters can give you more suggestions. Hooe your trainer gets on board too, if not? Lots of fish in that particular sea, they are supposed to help you.

This is excellent advice.

[MissApple]

Hi again everybody.

Thanks for all the responses. Unfortunately, I've tried pretty much everything that has been suggested with the exception of the running martingale (I will try that this week) and switching trainers.

I love the horse as a dressage horse, but obviously not as a trail horse. My hopes when I bought him were to have 4 dressage rides a week (paired with a short trail ride), and 1 long trail ride a week. One of my dressage rides is a lesson. I might do some showing, but haven't decided on that yet.

I do lots of groundwork/round pen with him, my trainer believes very strongly in keeping up with groundwork and not just doing everything under saddle. He is a lovely arena horse, and has fine ground manners when he's not in his neurotic state of mind.

He behaves exactly the same way on his own or out with other steady-eddy horses. And we walk the entire time on trail rides. I did try at one point putting him to work (some trotting) when the behavior kicked in, but as I said, that did not work.

I've tried mixing up his routine. Actually, I can't say we have a set routine at all. I've tried trail riding first then working in the arena afterword, dismounting on the trail and walking home, coming home from the trail and heading right back out again, leave him standing on cross ties after the ride, lunging before and after.... I mix things up as much as I can because 'breaking the routine' is the one piece of advice that almost everybody universally agrees upon. And he never gets fed immediately after work, I ride mid-morning after they have already eaten breakfast.

My trainer (and others) have ridden him as well. He behaves exactly the same way. Which in an odd way, is kind of relief because at least I know it's not ALL me! I don't feel nervous or unsafe on him. He doesn't bolt, buck, rear or jig. The behavior is just extremely frustrating, and makes me feel so bad for him. He's obviously not happy, he's working himself into a frenzied sweat, and I can't figure out how to get him back to a normal state of mind.

Short rides don't work. In fact they only accelerate the behavior, because I can't do a loop with a short ride. I have to physically turn him around to head home, which is almost guaranteed to trigger the behavior. When we do loops, I always try to mix it up so we're not doing the same loop every time, but it doesn't matter. At some unpredictable point (I never know what triggers it), the behavior kicks in and he never relaxes again after that.

I've only trailered him to foreign trails twice, and his behavior was so-so. Some of the behaviors disappeared (the power walking, head tossing, chomping at the bit), others remained (spooking, back hollowing, sweats). But realistically, trailering off property is not my reality. I don't have my own trailer and it's going to be extremely rare that I do this.

Trying a new trainer would mean switching barns, as I board at my trainers facility. I'm not sure how I feel about that. While I do wish she had expressed her new opinion on my horse BEFORE I bought him, she is a good dressage trainer and I have many friends here. But maybe it IS time I start looking if I want to keep this horse.

Thanks for listening to my vent. Sometimes you just feel like you're at the end of your rope and need to get it off your chest, you know? That's where I'm at right now.

[BEARCAT]

"What happens is he will walk calmly, on the buckle, relaxed and content at the start of the ride. He'll ride out by himself, and he never balks about leaving the barn."

This caught my eye in your first post.
What happens if you go do "dressage on the trail" instead?
It might be that he is used to following directions (as in when he is in the arena) and that being left to his own devices with no guidance, his anxious mind overrides the rest.

[SendenHorse]

"What happens is he will walk calmly, on the buckle, relaxed and content at the start of the ride. He'll ride out by himself, and he never balks about leaving the barn."

This caught my eye in your first post.
What happens if you go do "dressage on the trail" instead?
It might be that he is used to following directions (as in when he is in the arena) and that being left to his own devices with no guidance, his anxious mind overrides the rest.

yes, sounds like my horse. He needs the routine and direction. I plan to have a NH person work with him this summer.

I'm a huge believer that dressage creates harmony and obedicence, but the horses better suited to dressage aren't the most suited to trails with the long rein/lack of structure nature of it. I need some help in getting better communication in that environment. He's not as bad as your horse, just never really settles. But I wouldn't expect him to-- he has not had the exposure. Thought he is very very good at shows.

[MissApple]

"
What happens if you go do "dressage on the trail" instead?

Bearcat, it makes no difference. I actually tried that for a while, but somebody suggested I stop that so that he learns the trail is a relaxing place to be and not 'work'. But really, either way, it makes no difference in preventing the behavior from surfacing.

[findeight]

I dunno here. How old is the horse? What's his background? I know almost a year seems a long time but often a partnership takes longer to build and if he had never been out on the trail, wouldn't expect him to be very good at it.

Whether that means you should sell him along, try to keep working with him or give up trail riding? That's up to you. I'd hate to see you have to work with trainer to sell and buy another but if you are feeling you don't want to go to the barn maybe that's best.

I still think there may be other options if you like the horse otherwise and he sounds safe. Have you looked at other barns and trainers? Seem to be at a crossroads with this.

[Groom&Taxi]

Hi again everybody.

While I do wish she had expressed her new opinion on my horse BEFORE I bought him, she is a good dressage trainer and I have many friends here. But maybe it IS time I start looking if I want to keep this horse.

Thanks for listening to my vent. Sometimes you just feel like you're at the end of your rope and need to get it off your chest, you know? That's where I'm at right now.

Totally understand. I think most people who are "serial" horse owners (owning one at a time and usually keeping that one for a while) learn something with every purchase that informs the next purchase.

You trusted your trainer's judgment that the trail problems with current horse would be solvable - trainer's judgment, in this case it seems, was not sound. Trainers, by nature, see most horse problems as fixable - that's their job. But as she is mainly a dressage trainer, the anxious trail behavior probably carried less weight than it should have in deciding whether this was the right horse for you to purchase.

Key lesson I learned from my last purchase was "buy the horse that has been doing exactly the job you want it to do for at least six months". Other key lesson was that some trainers are not as good at advising regarding purchases as they are at riding horses/giving lessons.

[west5]

I've been in your situation.

When I finally got a new horse that did everything a wanted it was a revelation. I was so much happier.

I had to make huge compromises in ground manners/vices but was able to find a mount who was an excellent athlete and was able to hack out with me alone or in a group with no issues. On the buckle, at a gallop, it didn't matter he was always perfect. He was also older than my previous horse so he was confirmed in his abilities (as well as his vices). For me it was a worthwhile trade off.

The only question you really haven't addressed is how good a dressage horse/how much potential he has in that area. To me if you aren't looking to compete at the absolute highest levels, you should be able to find a horse that works for you.

[cloudy18]

I have a horse like this, and a friend had a horse like this, and has another that she is currently working with. If you can't or don't want to give the horse one more try with a different trainer who deals with this sort of thing, then sell. I know how frustrating it can be.

My gelding is actually better alone. In a group, I never know when the switch will flip. I'm like the one poster who said she could handle it-my horse has been to South Dakota twice, and on numerous camping weekends, and many more day rides. But I never knew if he would be a jiggy mess. And I don't mind putting up with a little nonsense, but sometimes it just didn't stop.

It's possible your horse will get better with guidance from a proper trainer. But you have to decide if you want to put in an unknown amount of work to possibly get a decent trail horse, or if you want to find something that is suitable right now. I get attached easily, which is why I'm going to be very careful in picking out my next horse.

[Posting Trot]

I would agree that sometimes changing this kind of behavior just takes a long time. Longer than 10 months.

Of course every horse is different, and it's undoubtedly true that some horses will simply never be okay on the trail. But your horse sounds different in that he's fine up to a point and then it begins to fall apart.

When he starts power-walking for home, what happens if you don't take a tighter hold on the reins? Does he start trotting or cantering? You said that you've tried to do dressage with him on the trail; will he take contact on the bit once he's turned for home or is it when you've asked for contact that he starts imitating a giraffe? Does it seem like he's losing his mind or on the edge of a massive spook and bolt, or is he just being a bully?

Sometimes the counter-intuitive stuff works, like not trying to stop a horse with the reins when he starts trying to bull through your aids. But, if the horse is really about to explode and totally lose it, giving up the reins may not be an attractive option.

You might look for a trainer that specifically works with horses on the trail. This should, ideally include both the trainer working with the horse on the trail, as well as the trainer going on another horse with you on the trail so that he/she can work with you both.

Good luck.

[MissApple]

My horse is 10, soon to be 11, and his background is dressage. The gal I bought him from said she took him out on a few group trail rides, but trail riding wasn't really her thing. So no, he has not had a lot of trail experience, which I guess is why my trainer thought his behavior would improve with training.

When the power walking starts, he just starts walking as fast as he possibly can. If I leave him on a loose rein, that's when the 'giraffe' imitation starts. He'll have his head straight up in the air and just keep plowing along at top speed, and he'll often trip and stumble over stuff because he's walking so fast he's not paying attention to where he's stepping. And it's very uncomfortable and bouncy for me, the rider. I never realized before him that a non-gaited horse could walk so fast! He never breaks from a walk though, and never jigs. If I take up the reins and try to get him to engage with me, he'll drop his head and shorten his stride, but he won't slow his pace. He's overflexing at the poll and evading contact, hollowing his back, and chomping loudly on the bit. I never feel like he's going to bolt though, and he never has.

To be honest, I don't know which sounds less appealing....trying to continue on with training, or starting the horse shopping process all over again.

[cloudy18]

Hmm, if he never jigs and stays at a walk, I'd say that's half the battle. It's better than what I would get sometimes. But I understand about that fast uncomfortable walk, and bombing down the trail willy nilly because they are more concerned about going forward quickly vs safely. I wish you had easy access to the right kind of trainer for this. They could probably give you a better idea of the situation that would help you decide what to do.

Have you tried sticking him behind a slower horse? You want one that walks out, but at a comfortable pace, and doesn't mind someone right behind him. My friend's new horse chomps at the bit a lot too, and wants to go go go.She's just nervous and inexperienced. She has a trainer coming in May to work with her, and I'm curious to see how they do this year.

I think you have to decide if you are willing to put in a lot of crappy trail rides, knowing there's a possibility he might not get better, or if you would rather put the effort into horse shopping. Do you want to give it another year or cut your losses now? Have you ever had one trail ride on him where you weren't frustrated? Have you seen any progress at all, even a tiny bit? Do you want to work on training a trail horse if he's good at dressage, or do you want to just go on a relaxing ride? Just things to consider.

[OverandOnward]

OP, are you trail riding alone or with others? It sounds like you are alone as no other horses were mentioned. I have found that horses will behave differently when riding alone than with a group. Can you clarify?
...

This was my first thought as well. I have trail-ridden every horse I've owned (6) and they were from different performance disciplines. I would never introduce a horse to trails by himself, particularly if he were a mature ring-worker.

From what you describe, my first step would be to go out with a companion, every time. And someone who has a brain about trail-riding and will be patient with your horse and your need to spend time doing some extra circles as needed.

With the behavior you are describing, especially that some of it is worse, I would not ride him out alone. It may be asking for more and more trouble. Teach him to un-herd-bound later, work on trails confidence first.

See it as HE sees it, not as you see it. Everything you've described is from the rider's handbook. Time to look from the worldview of a ring-work dressage horse.

... What happens is he will walk calmly, on the buckle, relaxed and content at the start of the ride. ..

My horse is 10, soon to be 11, and his background is dressage. The gal I bought him from said she took him out on a few group trail rides, but trail riding wasn't really her thing. So no, he has not had a lot of trail experience, which I guess is why my trainer thought his behavior would improve with training.

When the power walking starts, he just starts walking as fast as he possibly can. If I leave him on a loose rein, that's when the 'giraffe' imitation starts. ...

Don't trail-ride this horse on a loose rein. At all, not even for just a few minutees. Maintain dressage contact. This is what he knows, it's a security for him. Again, see it from his point of view, not yours.

My current horse is great on trails ... so long as I never, ever give him loose rein. I mean, ever. Easing the reins while thinking I am giving him his head, giving him a break while we walk on, leads to a meltdown. The giraffe thing, the dropped plank back, everything you describe of your horse. So discouraging!

But my smarter western rider friend told me to stop giving him a loose rein. She could see what I couldn't: I think it's a gift - he thinks he's being abandoned! His background gives him no reference for a true loose rein for longer than a diagonal across the center.

I would so much rather be riding trails on a longer rein, but I've adapted for this particular horse. It might help yours as well, for similar reasons.

[partlycloudy]

Have you double checked the saddle fit? Maybe the fit is just ok for dressage ie lots of rising trot, but uncomfortable for long walks? You know how your seat bones ache after a long trail ride, while you can work in the ring longer with less achyness?

Justa thought to throw out there.

[SuzieQNutter]

One of the problems is that you only walk on the trail ride. If you are unable to go for a gallop up a hill or canter along a stretch then get someone to ride him who can.

Only go fast uphill. Walk downhill until you are experienced.

This is ingrained in him now. The anecdote with Tristan on the first page was a pony that it was ingrained with him. He was ridden out with other horses and not walked the whole way.

Another annecdote for you, for a pony that was only walked.

A girl trying to ride a pony bought for a young girl.

What a rotter! Stopping and trying to back under my horse in the middle of the road with traffic backed up. He bucked and reared. All she ever tried to do was to get him to walk. She failed.

They put me on him and he was so small that the bucks and rears just had me laughing so they asked me to ride him.

I found out that if you tried to walk him he played up like merry ****. But gallop him and he went straight and behaved. So I galloped him until he sweated, which was not very long at first as he was fat.

But each day he went a bit longer and at the start of the 3rd week, he walked.

He not only walked but he rounded up, he cantered and did flying changes. He could also jump.

He was the perfect pony. He changed totally and completely and was doing his best to please.

The next weekend I put her on him in this little tiny round yard and then said I had to go and get something and disappeared. I actually went into the feed shed and watched through the window.

Within 20 minutes she was riding him in walk all over our property without being led.

So with a horse you need to find what works for them. I would say with your horse just as with this pony that keeping in walk is not the answer. Yes that is what the 2nd pony ended up doing, but forcing him to walk did not work for him. In the end he chose to walk.

I also like what someone said above about not giving the loose rein when he does this. You can work him. Collected trot. Shoulder in. Travers. Piaffe can be taught on the way home because they are more forward than in the arena.

I also liked what someone above said about coming home from the trailride and working him for half an hour in the arena.

Use your trail ride as your warm up to work in the arena each time. I bet pretty soon he doesn't want to come home too fast!!!

[Horse with No Name]

Hi again everybody.

I love the horse as a dressage horse, but obviously not as a trail horse. My hopes when I bought him were to have 4 dressage rides a week (paired with a short trail ride), and 1 long trail ride a week. One of my dressage rides is a lesson. I might do some showing, but haven't decided on that yet.

I do lots of groundwork/round pen with him, my trainer believes very strongly in keeping up with groundwork and not just doing everything under saddle. He is a lovely arena horse, and has fine ground manners when he's not in his neurotic state of mind.

He behaves exactly the same way on his own or out with other steady-eddy horses. And we walk the entire time on trail rides. I did try at one point putting him to work (some trotting) when the behavior kicked in, but as I said, that did not work.

My bolding. What SuzieQNutter said. Does horse ever have a chance for a some pace work, a blow out, a pipe-cleaner? Why do you only walk when out? Maybe he's bored silly just walking and gets to a certain point when he realises it's ground hog day all over so he checks out and says right may as well go home.

[SendenHorse]

My horse is 10, soon to be 11, and his background is dressage. The gal I bought him from said she took him out on a few group trail rides, but trail riding wasn't really her thing. So no, he has not had a lot of trail experience, which I guess is why my trainer thought his behavior would improve with training.

When the power walking starts, he just starts walking as fast as he possibly can. If I leave him on a loose rein, that's when the 'giraffe' imitation starts. He'll have his head straight up in the air and just keep plowing along at top speed, and he'll often trip and stumble over stuff because he's walking so fast he's not paying attention to where he's stepping. And it's very uncomfortable and bouncy for me, the rider. I never realized before him that a non-gaited horse could walk so fast! He never breaks from a walk though, and never jigs. If I take up the reins and try to get him to engage with me, he'll drop his head and shorten his stride, but he won't slow his pace. He's overflexing at the poll and evading contact, hollowing his back, and chomping loudly on the bit. I never feel like he's going to bolt though, and he never has.

To be honest, I don't know which sounds less appealing....trying to continue on with training, or starting the horse shopping process all over again.

so do you stop him from doing this or let him walk fast? Halt when ever he gets fast. If he is a dressage horse, he should know how to listen

If that doesn't work, halt and back up. Over and over.

Or as others suggested, send him off in a fast trot or canter.

[Groom&Taxi]

Just one more thought since it hasn't been mentioned and might tell you something - have you tried a trail ride after giving the horse a small dose of ace? Just wondering if that would take the edge of the anxiety or prevent the "go home" switch from flipping.

[Bogie]

Just one more thought since it hasn't been mentioned and might tell you something - have you tried a trail ride after giving the horse a small dose of ace? Just wondering if that would take the edge of the anxiety or prevent the "go home" switch from flipping.

I was also going to suggest a bit of Ace to see if it helped. Horses will learn on Ace so it may teach him to be more relaxed.

The chomping on the bit behavior sounds like anxiety to me.

Will he pony? The OTTB that didn't like trail riding relaxed completely if we ponied him (with a rider). We just kept a lead rope on him all the time and the rider would toss it to me if he got worried. Over time we were able to extend the time when he was on his own.

Does he long line? That's another approach you could try. I used to long line my horse out on the trails and it was very good at teaching him to go forward and ahead of me.

Finally, when he gets stupid, try making him do lateral work. He may discover it's not much fun to be stupid.

Good luck!

[Arcadien]

Someone else echoed my thought - if you've only been walking on trails, how about giving him what my friend & I called a "Power Trot" session - about 3-5 minutes strong trotting at a time, either posting or 2-point for rider. We had OTTB's that wanted to go & go & go etc, but we found after 2 sessions of "Power Trot" (with a minute or two walk break in between) we had enjoyable trail horses. Mind, they were never the dead broke/cowboy/anyone can ride type of trail horses, but we could go on group trail rides & people stopped noticing us lol. We always started a group ride in front & sent our guys out at a solid rocking along trot. After that treatment we let the group catch up to us & we were fine.

If that works for your guy, you'd still have to decide if that was okay with you - our OTTB's needed the "Power Trot" segments of trail riding into their 20's! So not like they grew out of it. We didn't mind as it helped us get in shape too (we evented them the rest of the time). But I understand that might not be every riders cup of tea. Or the best coping method, just one that worked for us.

Don't struggle too long, I spent 2 years with the wrong mount for me - I knew after a year that he wasn't right for me but forced myself (and him) into 2 years of struggling trying to make it work. When I finally let him go to a much more appropriate home we were BOTH tremendously relieved! If he is that young & still sound, absolutely nothing wrong with finding him a better match & going back to the drawing board yourself.